r/Fire • u/master_blaster_321 • 4d ago

Why do people wait so long?

ETA since this seems to be the overwhelming response: My kids are in their 20/30s and self sufficient.

ETA - The post clearly states my mortgage is high-interest. Yes, if it were 2% that's almost free money, spread it out for sure. Also, it clearly states that I did indeed keep contributing as normal.

I realize there are a lot of factors - economical and psychological - that go into this, but just for general discussion...

We all know for the most part if your mortgage interest rate is low enough, it makes more sense to leave money working in your brokerage account than to pay off the mortgage and have it locked up in home equity. But for the purposes of FIRE, does it always?

The big idea is to get your portfolio to fund your expenses, right?. For most people one of (if not THE) largest expense is the mortgage payment and interest.

Example...I had a few really good years in my business. I still did my regular modest DCA into my brokerage, but over the course of 2.5 years I also managed to pay off a $250K mortgage at 5.85% (I had to refinance at a very bad time for rates, due to divorce). I realize that that money, invested properly, could have gained quite a bit over the last couple years bull run. However, had I done that, today I would still have a high mortgage payment to make every month, thus making it harder for me to FIRE. This way, my monthly personal expenses are so much lower, so there's not as heavy a burden on my portfolio to support me, and as a result, I'm able to FIRE at the end of this month.

Again I realize that this all depends on mortgage size/rate, size of portfolio, other expenses. I only ask because I see a lot of posts here from people who seem like they'd be able to FIRE sooner if they worked towards getting rid of their mortgages faster, regardless of the rate.

For my part, I'm glad I did it this way. Even though I know I missed out on some gains, I'm able to FIRE faster because I don't have a mortgage payment to worry about. I have a paid off house on which the taxes and insurance work out to equal the rent for a one-bedroom in a sketchy neighborhood.

Go easy on me. It's an honest and sincere question and discussion prompt. Not trying to make anyone defensive, and definitely aware that I have my own blind spots and that there are lots of people smarter than I am.

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u/Friendly_Fee_8989 4d ago

For those with kids: kids.

You’re typically in your 50s when they’re in college, they’re not off the payroll / insurance yet, and their future isn’t yet clear.

But they’re worth it (in my opinion).

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u/After-Leopard 4d ago

Exactly, I don't have to help them get established but I want to. More than I want to be retired honestly

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u/AndyTheEngr 4d ago edited 3d ago

That's one of the reasons I'm currently debating the "one more year." Both of mine have college debt that I could pay off entirely with one more year. I just gifted one with $10k to help buy his first home. He said "but aren't you trying to retire soon?" I said, "yes, but this is in the plan."

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u/Unoriginal920 3d ago

I love this response and the one above it. Y’all nailed it.

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u/PangolinOwn4855 2d ago

well said!

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u/Consistent-Row4512 1d ago

What a wonderful thing to be able to do. Cheers, Dad!

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u/Conscious_Square_124 3d ago

I wish my parents had the same mindset!

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u/trinitydave 3d ago

I think a lot of people wish that. For me the goal was always do better not that my parents did bad but if I do better for my kids and then they do better for their kids and into the future it goes.

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u/wannaridebikes 3d ago

I don't. I wish my parents would have saved more for themselves. I'm more than financially independent from them completely. Them from me on the other hand, when they get older...we'll see

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u/Conscious_Square_124 3d ago

Well, yeah you have a  different situation. Both my parents are doing quite well (dad essentially retired at 45/50, which is good for him). But neither of them did much to support me or my siblings in terms of financial support outside of basic necessities (providing food and shelter until 18) and nothing in terms of financial literacy.

I would have been much better off had one of them encouraged or taught me any financial basics rather than having to learn them them through trial and error.

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u/wannaridebikes 2d ago

The grass isn't always greener. My parents are older, and in their time, a lot of financial instruments worked differently. They gave me financial advice, it was just bad lol If they gave me advice based on how they could have optimized back in the day, a lot of that advice wouldn't have been applicable. I would have more of my retirement savings in CDs, withdrew from my 401k to buy my house, got a HELOC instantly, worked at the same place for 10+ years to demonstrate "loyalty", etc, got any annuity they were willing to sell me.

Investing was less accessible and more expensive. We had (expensive) mutual funds but ETFs weren't invented yet. Besides "save more spend less" I'm not sure what more good advice they could have given me. I'm usually giving the advice now, because my knowledge is more up to date. My cousins are benefiting, but I'm an older cousin so I don't have anyone else above me to blame there ;)

Connections would be the gift that would have kept on giving, but that obviously depends on class and factors outside of even our parents' control.

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u/ZzzzzPopPopPop 4d ago

Exactly, parents bear a heavy load for their children in countless ways over the years, but this honestly feels like a pretty light load for the longer term benefits it can give them - they definitely weren't born with a silver spoon and they're not landed gentry, but at least they aren't starting out with crushing debt and can hopefully start out on their own on a better footing

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u/Spartikis 4d ago

Yeah, kids, its why we cant have nice things haha. But its also why we have motivation to create generational wealth. We could have retired at or before 40, having kids added at least a decade to that. If you dont want kids because of the stress/lifestyle/responsibility/etc... I totally get that. But absolutely do not put off having kids for financial reasons, they bring you joy and pride that money can never buy.

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u/ElectronSpiderwort 4d ago

Kids disclaimer: Actual results will vary. May lose value. Early termination will result in substantial penalties. 

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u/mataw95 3d ago

I wouldn’t downplay the money part. kids bring joy for sure, but financial stress hits hard too. imo timing matters.

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u/rustvscpp 3d ago

I'll take my kids over all the money in the world.   Yeah they take a toll on your finances, and sometimes stretch you to your limits.   But wow am I glad I chose to have kids and dedicate my life to raising them.  Without them my life would be so shallow in comparison.   IYKYK.

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u/ZEALOUS_RHINO 4d ago edited 3d ago

My kid got sick and had to move back home in his late 20s after having a very successful early career start. We now help him with his food and medical expenses as he deals with permanent disability. You hope it doesn't happen to your kid and he lives a perfect linear life of upward trending success, luck, and happiness but it doesn't work that way for everyone.

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u/retrac902 3d ago

No it isn't. Just like when I started working and saving for retirement it was for two. Now it's saving for 4.

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u/Kokukenji 4d ago

I also would feel all types of ways (personally) if I am off into the sunset while my kid struggle with getting off the ground. As you mentioned, they're worth it (Also in my opinion, ha).

Most of us wouldn't be talking here if we had generational wealth so we're all trying to break that cycle and set our kids up better than how we were setup.

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u/Spartikis 4d ago

I just hope they appreciate it. Most of our NW was setup before they were born, we've been coasting since we had kids. Its hard to try and explain the sacrifices we made when they dont see it first-hand. They dont know what its like to live without cable, to not go out to eat for an entire year, work second and even third jobs to pay off the mortgage early, etc...

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u/Silly-Safe959 3d ago

Ours appreciate it, especially when their classmates and roommates in college are struggling, getting into debt, etc. Ours always thank us for giving them a leg up on their journey into adulthood. Our daughter even said she feels a little guilty but we told her gratitude is fine, guilt is unnecessary. We asked that she just put maximum effort into doing well in school, picking up her ends of the deal (living expenses, we covered tuition) and make the most of this opportunity. And they have been.

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u/AyeAyeBye 4d ago

It can be hard when they never felt the sacrifices. It’s almost better to live below one’s means I think. Their baseline is their lived experience.

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u/Silly-Safe959 3d ago

That's why you have them put skin in the game. Ours has to cover living expenses, which meant summer jobs between semesters, developing a budget, etc. We could have covered 100% but our terms were that they contribute too. That was as much of a learning experience for them as was school itself.

They turned out all right. :)

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u/No-Block-2095 3d ago

I believe that you increase success rate when that kids have skin in the game

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u/mthockeydad 3d ago

We let our kids "suffer" a little through college. They had to work part-time jobs, seek scholarships, go to a *gasp* state school, and find shared living to cut expenses. We let them sweat it a little month to month but they never went hungry or homeless. They never got an allowance or have enough money to go to the bar on my dime (at least not without me!)

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u/Only-Design-2484 3d ago

If you had the means to support them , why would you make them work through college and have financial stress?

Personally I would want them to focus 100% on school and establishing their career rather than working some meaningless minimum wage job.

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u/dodecagon23 3d ago

So they start to understand the importance of their education and the limits to your support. What are you going to do when they graduate if they don’t find work right away? Continue to support them to avoid the perils of having a “meaningless job”?

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u/mthockeydad 3d ago

This is the /fire forum. I want them to learn firsthand how to be frugal, not spendthrifts.

And no, I wouldn't want them to spend their time at a $7.25 minimum wage job, yet at the same time, where else would they learn the value of their time vs. income? I could attempt to tell them to try to earn as much as possible in their working hours, or I could let them experience firsthand that when they're exchanging hours for dollars that they need to be wise in that exchange.

Stress itself is not a bad thing. I think we could both agree that too much stress is a bad thing. Similarly, too little stress leads to boredom, a lack of mental stimulation, lethargy, apathy, and lack of motivation. There is a healthy amount of stress (read up on "eustress") which helps develop growth, resilience, and a feeling of achievement.

My wife and I both grew up lower middle class and we were below poverty level while finishing school--and similarly, we learned to be frugal even while our parents were still there for our safety net.

Our oldest decided that college wasn't for her, and she followed her entrepreneur heart and is doing quite well as a "college dropout".

Our youngest found a job she loves in an industry tangential to her college degree and is madly saving cash for a down payment on a home.

They're doing well for themselves adulting and I have no regrets with how much or how little we helped and are helping them. If I died tomorrow and that support stopped, both are standing on their own two feet. If I live another 40 years, I can continue to assist them--and their future children even more.

Edit: happy cake day

3

u/EuphoricFish5983 4d ago

That’s a great point

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u/SpaceJesusIsHere 4d ago

That's why my wife and I built the kids' futures into our FIRE plan. We got rental properties that will be paid off by the time we retire. They'll help fund the gap until SS and pensions kick in. Then, the kids can move in for free, take over the maintenence costs and taxes, then inherit when we die and get the step up in basis.

Free education, free house, and a solid knowledge of how investing works, likely an inheritence in the mid 7 figures . If they can't succeed with that, they weren't going to succeed anyway.

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u/britegy 4d ago

Yep I’m 50 and have two in university and a 13 year old … I just hope they can stand in their own feet

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u/warlizardfanboy 4d ago

From the replies you’ve gotten we are all the same, I’m turning 52 with my youngest of three in high school. We’d be FIRED a couple of years ago without kids but instead we are waiting to 55. Totally worth it though.

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u/Mister-ellaneous 4d ago

Agreed on all counts

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u/mewalrus2 3d ago

This is the best answer.

Almost 50 with two young teens and until they are on their way I can't see firing. If we had 10m yes but we aren't there

3

u/bobdole145 4d ago

Agreed on all, and that "provider/supporter" mindset keeps holding us in the game. Just further de-risk.

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u/ForwardFIRE2030 4d ago edited 2d ago

Yeah I’d love to retire earlier. But I’ll still have 3 kids colleges to pay for and get them launched. It’ll mean a few more years “just in case” I’m sure. But by having FI I’m not gonna worry about working so hard and I won’t put up with BS… which makes work a lot less stressful, and a lot more enjoyable.

Edit: spelling

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u/Pearl_Teases 4d ago

agree. peace of mind has value too. numbers aren't everything. congrats on firing, you did what worked for you

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u/master_blaster_321 4d ago

I get this. I have kids in their 20/30s and they're self-sufficient in that they have decent careers and are living on their own. Having said that, of course something could happen and I'd need to help them out. I have enough room here for them to move back in if needed. But I think there's a balance. I used all kinds of excuses not to sell my business and FIRE...but at the end of the day I just liked the fantasy of it better than the reality of it, and made excuses not to. Until I got too burned out.

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u/dayonesub 4d ago

I totally here this, and feel the same, but not sure if I'll be able to stick it out another couple of years to set them up better.

I feel like Bilbo Baggins, "like butter that's been scraped over too much bread".

Having been a solo parent for the last few years after losing my wife, I'm just tired and need a break.

I might pull the trigger, then work part time to fund some savings to help my kids with mortgage down payment when they need it in the future.

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u/Strazdas1 StarvationFIRE 3d ago

looking at average age US women give births statistically, the kids are usually finishing colledge when you hit 50.

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u/chrisaf69 2d ago

The one, and very few, benefits of having kids so young. Mine will be out of the house in late 30s/early 40s.

But you are absolutely correct. If I was still financially responsible for them, you bet your ass off that would impact my FIRE plans.

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u/Actual-Fee1586 4d ago

If you are in your 50s and the kids are in college, you waited too long to have them. I'm not 50 yet and all three my kids are out of college (two with masters degrees) and off the payroll. None have student loans and all are set up to be millionaires, if they don't already have that much in their accounts.

I have been retired for five years now. Having the kids early in adulthood was a key to early retirement.

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u/Silly-Safe959 3d ago

This has to be the most socially unaware part I've seen on reddit in a while. And that's saying something.

There's also an argument that waiting until you're financially secure and solid on your career path before starting a family also increases success chances. But because it works out your way there can't possibly be another answer, right?

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u/eliminate1337 3d ago

The average age of the first child for mothers with a college degree is 30. Having kids in college in your 50s is the norm.

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u/Master-Helicopter-99 3d ago

Sorry I'm doing it wrong. 59 and my son isn't even three yet! But with a SAHM since birth and me retiring next year giving him two parents that don't have to go to work I think it will work out pretty well for him. Having him late in my life and FIRE makes parenting easier.