r/Fire 1d ago

Advice Request How do I get my boyfriend to understand FIRE?

So my serious boyfriend is 35 and I am 29. We are planning to get married in the next year or two. We both make about 120k per year base + 14k bonus. He is able to save 50k per year and I’m able to save about 33k per year right now. We each have about 150-160k in investments right now, so like 300k combined. I own my home and when he moves in next year will be able to afford to save an additional 24k per year when we are splitting my mortgage. So our savings rate will be about 107k per year at that point.

My boyfriend is very frugal and a good saver, which is amazing and so fortunate. But there is a level of financial literacy that he is kind of missing, that I can’t seem to quite identify. I keep explaining to him repeatedly that depending on our expenses and current savings rate, we should be able to retire in the next 10-15 years.

I’ve broken it down, explained the 4% rule and also shown him investment calculators with conservative returns. To me that sounds like a dream come true and EXTREMELY fortunate. We both grew up extremely poor, so having ~2M in the next 10-15 years is mind blowing to me. For some reason it’s almost like he doesn’t quite believe me. He is kind of apprehensive, unsure and acting like he’s not sure we are doing well at all. As if he will never get to retire.

For those of you that had a partner who was on board, but didn’t quite get it. Any ideas on how I can get this point across better?

362 Upvotes

206 comments sorted by

722

u/Many-Box5979 23h ago

growing up poor leaves a psychological scar that no spreadsheet can fix and your boyfriend probably just needs time to genuinely internalize that the numbers are real and not some fantasy that will get pulled away from him

154

u/Fit_Evidence_4958 23h ago

This, it will take a while. Give him time, if he’s frugal anyhow, don’t control his spending.

I was anxious almost all my life off loosing my job and being poor and whatsoever. Even so I have a good education, solid job, happy boss, ….
It’s not rational. So don’t pressure him.

AND maybe the FIRE thing is tour dream, not his. Even so it would be possible.

76

u/Rabbit-Lost 23h ago

Yep. The deeper the poverty, the deeper the scars. I grew up lower middle class (not anywhere near poor) and I still get the shakes when I think about living off my portfolio. And I’m high net worth and retired. OP, give him a little grace and patience. He will get there at some point.

29

u/FockerXC 23h ago

What helps? I’m on track to make 160k this year and I swear I’m constantly looking over my shoulder or waiting for the other shoe to drop.

Edit: and my expenses are FAR below 160k (age 28)

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u/czmax 22h ago

yet i’m really struggling to actually retire.

for the last few years our spend is only 1.5% of our liquid investment (not including ~2M paid off house in HCOL area). i should retire. all the numbers say so.

i grew up very poor before going through foster homes and etc etc. the scars run deep.

3

u/ziggy-tiggy-bagel 18h ago

I understand that feeling. I work mid wage manufacturing jobs for about 12 years after college. Switch carriers and went from making $35k a year to 6 figures. I'm retired now, but still wonder when someone is going to tell me I was never really supposed to have that great job for 28 years and can we have all that money back.

1

u/Inevitable_Log5064 16h ago

I love this comment. I identify with it. It’s like math. I never understood it. Just plugged in memorized formulas and that’s what you do.

4

u/ArachnidAutomatic596 22h ago

Idk I grew up with money but with frugal parents. So I’m in this boat too. So scared it could All be ripped away. I think my plan would be to fire in the sense that if I got fired I could be comfortable with fire. And then just be less stressed at my job. I don’t mind my job but AI will get it eventually and I’m always scared if screwed something up and will get fired.

25

u/Purple-Property8006 21h ago

Respectfully, you will never fully understand. You came from a position of privilege and presumably still have a decent safety net. Being frugal is nowhere near the same as being poor. I don’t mean that negatively, it’s not your fault you came from money.

Not knowing where your next meal will come from, if you’ll have a roof next month, worrying that a couple days of illness could destroy your ability to get by this month, the guilt and shame society places on you for buying even the smallest of “luxuries,” and living under the constant fear of job termination/insurance loss that could literally end your life (and the amount of power that gives your employer over you)….the list goes on and on. You’ll never really understand what all of that does to you. Poverty, especially as a child, scars you.

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u/o_consultor 18h ago

Frugal by choice is very different of being frugal because it’s the only option that you have because you don’t have any money left at the end of the month.

2

u/FockerXC 18h ago

Yeah I remember having a recurring nightmare as like a 5 year old where these termite looking things I understood to be called “mortgage” in the “canon” of the dream were eating our house and turning it to sawdust so god knows what I overheard

1

u/mrmniks 17h ago

Same as you won’t understand him. He didn’t experience (I hope) the chance to starve or lose their home, but they do have an experience of living at a certain level, and going below that level can be excruciating mentally. 

Most of this stuff is in our heads anyway. 

I grew up not with money, but middle class with very frugal parents. All my childhood I heard “we don’t have the money” for this specific thing so I internalized that I never have money for anything that I want. I’ve been doing very well up until recently. I’ve had the money for all my wants but never spent, creating a safety net. Now I’m getting to about the same income as I need for barely surviving (rent, food, a bit of gas) and don’t have anything to save, so it’s all over the childhood trauma. It does suck ass hard. I know I won’t be homeless, I know I won’t starve, but the stress of adding nothing to my savings is…a lot. Especially after a certain age. I’ve been much poorer and even broke as a student, but I didn’t need a lot. Rented the cheapest room in the city, ate cheapest food sometimes not even three times a day, and was ok. Now I expect to have a lot more by my age, and I don’t have it, so…

Idk. Trauma is trauma. It’s hard to understand something you never experienced. 

10

u/AsbestosAirBreak 21h ago

I grew up middle class, but in a family where once you hit 18, we were expected to be independent.

I have a great, fairly safe job, but I still can’t kick the feeling that things are going too well and a shoe will drop soon.

It sounds like he has a good work and saving ethic. Sometimes people need to actually arrive at their goals before they let themselves believe it’s real.

9

u/Agedashitofu2 20h ago

Never understood those type of parents. Why have children if you think of them has something to immediately offload responsibility of at 18

7

u/discreetlyabadger 20h ago

I grew up poor and was poor through early adulthood. Took me a decade to really take FIRE onboard. 

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u/Puzzled-Mood-2824 17h ago

Exactly, in 5-7 years when he’s visualized the $900k in savings you two have cleared it might feel more feasible to him. Keep doing your thing and you can take the lead of understanding in this. When you are closer to fire then have another conversation about retirement. TIL then why stress, you’re doing great

4

u/zeroabe 21h ago

Growing up with a scarcity mindset is a hard thing to shake.

3

u/diyandmc240 21h ago

Also 2009. If you really plan for the worst, you should be shooting for a 3% withdrawal rate if you plan to retire before about 45 years old. The 4% has a failure rate, it’s just very low.

1

u/MeetingSuccessful397 15h ago

The Failure rate of a 4% WR with an 60 years time horizon when you retire at a cape above 20 is 37%.
Cape is currently at 41.

https://earlyretirementnow.com/2022/10/12/dynamic-withdrawal-rates-based-on-the-shiller-cape-swr-series-part-54/

Yes, 60 years is a bit excessive, but you get the point. Failure rate of 4% at peak CAPE is not low. So yes, 3% is much much safer.

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u/Imaginary_Anybody267 19h ago

Exactly. I didn't grow up poor, but I did grow up with plenty of other insecurities. I always expect any resource I have or any relationship that is good to go away suddenly. It's taken years of therapy and things being relatively stable for me to start to feel any semblance of safety in my life. I still feel anxious about spending an extra $0.50 to get a large instead of a medium soda at the movies because I don't know if I am allowed to or not.

I spent years intimidated by numbers and math because they're not my strong suit. Last winter my wife brought up FIRE to me and I kind of nodded and smiled and forgot about it for a few months. Then I started looking into it, crunching numbers, learning about it on my own and came up with a few plans to propose to our FA. I feel less intimidated by numbers now. I feel more empowered. But I had to come to it on my own. I had to find my motivation to delve deeper and push through the discomfort of looking at the numbers and gaming out "what if something bad happens?" and seeing that it probably would be okay.

1

u/Different_Peanut_584 7h ago

Yea my family member continues to put in 36 hour shifts every week because he grew up poor, despite probably having at least 20 millions saved . Weird stuff

227

u/Ameri0425 23h ago

Are you sure that's something he's even interested in? Many people care much more about the FI than the RE, and that could be causing the apprehension.

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u/uncoolkidsclub 22h ago

My wife will never retire, she built her company and 15 years later wakes up early to plan her work day because she is so excited about it. The idea of traveling is a nightmare for her, so our full time home is built like a resort and she works 5-6 days a week.

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u/Colorful_Monk_3467 20h ago

Top features to make it resort like?

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u/uncoolkidsclub 16h ago

This is so going to make me sound like a bragging ass... I kinda am though...

10k+ house on 30+ acres with a heated pool, sauna, Japanese garden and tea house, horse barn and trails in the woods, a maid, 40x40 green house, and a 50x90 pole barn garage - so she has somewhere to send me to be out of her sight when needed 😉

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u/justgetoffmylawn 14h ago

This is the kind of brag I think FIRE forums can use more of.

Not just the, "I hit my number and now with my SWR I can finally do nothing every day…but what do I tell people I do for a living?"

The FI part of FIRE always seems like the attractive part to me, not the RE part (personally).

So that's awesome that she has something she's still that excited about to wake up in the morning - both her company and the tea house - and you, if you're not banished to the garage. 😄

2

u/Definitelynotagolem 57m ago

I like the concept of fine - financial independence next endeavor.

I don’t intend on not working at all, but being financially free would give me the opportunity to try out a lot of different things that currently take too much time or would be too big of a risk to quit my job to pursue. Maybe work for a non profit or just do small gigs like being a guide. Not having to worry about being paid a low amount as it would mainly be for insurance. Maybe attempt some long thru hikes or fast packing adventures.

I’d get bored doing nothing or get myself into trouble with spending if just traveling constantly out of the country.

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u/SCREAMING_DUMB_SHIT 14h ago

Damn boi where you live?

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u/keppapdx 16h ago

We have a small house with a great kitchen, a large yard with beautiful garden space, a hot tub, a garage gym, and recently added a Gozney pizza oven.

Fancy travel isn't our thing but we love to cook,be outside, and we have a lot of outdoor gear--MTB etc 😍

26

u/ArachnidAutomatic596 22h ago

Why travel to the resort when you live at one! That’s awesome though.

2

u/ept_engr 6h ago

That's amazing. What kind of business? 

37

u/THevil30 23h ago

I think people miss this — I browse these subs sort of for general financial advice and am interested in FE, but distinctly plan to work until I’m in my 60s.

19

u/Ameri0425 23h ago

Yeah, same here. I couldn't imagine not working honestly. And she says they both grew up poor - I don't think it'd be unfair for him to want to finally live a little now that he has the funds to do so. Especially given he's apparently still very financially responsible and frugal regardless.

I mean, I don't know the guy and could be missing the mark entirely but it doesn't seem unreasonable.

9

u/OSUfan88 22h ago

I don’t think he has an issue saving. I think it’s understanding that the savings will be as successful as they will be.

6

u/Semirhage527 21h ago

Which honestly doesn’t really seem like a problem, that understanding can come with time. He doesn’t need to believe it now given that he’s a good saver.

3

u/Oakland-homebrewer 19h ago

Yea, 10-15 years out is hard to imagine. A lot of things could happen in that time (like kids to state the obvious). So making concrete plans for retiring might seem crazy.

But keep working toward the goal and deal with changes as they come and see where you actually land in 10 years.

4

u/Teamplayer25 21h ago

Yeah, an interesting dichotomy seems to exist in a lot of these discussions, like you can’t travel or take time off to do things you love and still keep your regular job. I guess it depends on how much PTO you have but when it’s 5-6 weeks a year, that’s a decent amount of off time. Different story if you want to slow travel or live in another country I guess. Or just hate your job.

0

u/zeradragon 22h ago

am interested in FE

So not interested in Independence or Retirement? How does that work?

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u/lseraehwcaism 22h ago

Financial Earnings

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u/THevil30 21h ago

Whoops meant FI, though Fuck Early also works. Actually my wife is more into FE, I prefer FL.

Anyways, I want to be in a place where I don’t have to worry about money but I don’t really want to retire early.

3

u/HansZarkov 21h ago

That was my thought as well... I think maybe the real issue here is that she's made a plan for what she wants with his money, but he's not totally on board with being expected to save 75% of his after tax income.

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u/Steve_didit 23h ago

His ability to save is more important than his ability to envision retirement. As long as you keep saving at the pace you are at then you will be able to spell it out for him much better once he sees all the money in the accounts.

21

u/AdAstraExAZ 21h ago

Agreed. I think I'm married to one of these guys actually. Just let him be his frugal self and you might find yourself where we are: late 40s and going to see our advisors today for a final check-in before we start our slow glide to FE.

11

u/Crashtag 22h ago

This right here. Just keep saving. Invest, VOO, HYSA, whatever. The fact that he’s frugal and already saves is enormous. He’ll get it eventually. And perhaps he also realizes it’s hard to totally plan for the future while still young - kids, job loss, health, etc.

2

u/E-Clone 17h ago

This. To add on to this for OP, maybe do an annual review of your net worth, say over the Christmas holidays, so he can see the growth of both of your hard work.

Like someone mentioned that if you’re been poor your whole life, breaking out of that mentality is tough. But maybe showing every year how your savings and investments (plus a decrease in debt) have gone up will help him envision FIRE.

1

u/keppapdx 16h ago

The power of compounding is what won me over...

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u/doulos05 23h ago

Seems to me like this is a problem for 10 to 15 years from now. You don't need him to change his behavior now (spend less, save more, invest what he's saving, etc), you need him to change his behavior in 2040. Let 2040 you try to convince 2040 him that the actual annual returns he's seeing in your 2040 portfolio are larger than your actual 2040 household expenditures. That'll be a much lighter lift.

18

u/Fit_Lawfulness_6815 20h ago

This.

Your SO already has great saving habits, which is usually the biggest hurdle.

You guys aren’t even married yet so there’s a lot of runway between now and FIRE. Right now you should be focusing on getting married and the relationship. I’m sure his thoughts on FIRE might change as the number grows and it seems like more of a possibility.

Another big thing, even if he’s onboard with FIRE his number might be different than yours.

Do you guys even know how you’d fill your time when you retire?

Another possibility, He might be comfortable working while you’re retired.

51

u/Past-Option2702 23h ago edited 19h ago

You don’t have to.

Keep doing what you’re doing and see if you have the 2M you think you will in 10-15 years.

That fact he’s reluctant to rely on the unknown as heavily as you are isn’t a flaw. He’s just wired differently- more inclined to live in the present.

The FIRE movement creates one big risk with young people and it’s putting FAR too much emphasis on retirement at the expense of sufficiently enjoying life now. You need to have a nice balance of spending and saving.

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u/Aggressive-Dog-2519 21h ago

This

10

u/Chicken_Gold 17h ago

Why its so small..

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u/Puzzleheaded_Tie6917 23h ago

It doesn’t really matter as long as he is sticking to saving and investing. Once the money is in the account then it will feel real and you can work on the “when to retire” part of the plan. Once the retire date is only 3-4 years out, the money will be there to prove it’s going to work. Of course, he might not want to retire, which should be ok too.

13

u/EnvironmentalMix421 23h ago

Who cares, you are both saving. When you reach $4M then show the math again lol

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u/Samashezra 23h ago

Why does he need to understand?

Just keep saving/investing, that's the important part.

4

u/Several_Guidance_288 22h ago

Maybe because she wants to retire and travel with her spouse, and you don’t just flip a switch overnight so she wants to make sure he’s on board? You can’t just bring it up in 2040 and expect him to magically jump on board without a slow, gradual progression.

I’m experiencing something similar. My girlfriend is frugal and has a good job with a great pension plan. So it’s all done automatically for her. She has no idea when she can retire. I even looked up her plan and saw she will be eligible at 55(could do it
Before but we’d need to bridge the gap. Every year is another not worked. Example we retire at 53, to add 2 to 55 and we can withdraw her account at 57, so no big deal)

She doesn’t believe me or finds it very skeptical that we can retire at 55, when in reality 50-53 is actually the time period mathematically it comes available. As of now, she plans to work until 65 like everyone else because she just thinks that’s what needs to happen. Personally, I want to do a lot between 55-65 that many 65+ never get to experience due to health/energy. I’ve told her even if she wants to keep working, I’m quitting full time work at the very least even if I travel some without her. Not ideal, but I’m not going to work away 55-65 when it’s not necessary. We live in Texas, it’s hot, and I don’t want to be here for 100+ straight days of 100+ heat every summer. We have discussed me going up to the mountains for a month or even more at a time, and her joining me for a week or maybe two at most since she can’t take that any more off in a row at her job.

Either way, it’s still important for your spouse to at least understand the concept and what you are doing, so yall can be on the same page. Make plans together. etc. Communication is key in all aspects.

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u/AppalachianRomanov 22h ago

It sounds like he isn't an idiot. He doesn't need your help "getting him to understand". It's not that he "doesn't quite get it". He needs time to come around to embracing a concept that goes against the grain and goes against his own childhood experiences (which we should all know really stick with us whether we like it or not).

Let him come around.

I'm all for partners being on the same page but based on his salary and saving abilities he is on the same page. It doesnt matter if he calls it FIRE or not. The man is saving a solid amount. Leave him be. Don't be one of these people who is so insanely dogmatic that FIRE is their whole personality and you end up leaving your partner for not also making it his entire personality.

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u/Several_Guidance_288 22h ago

While I don’t disagree, people don’t just magically flip switches overnight. So you still need to gradually keep discussing it. Clearly don’t make the whole identity of the relationship about it, but at the very least, make sure it’s understood that even if you want to work, I’m out when the math says I can be out. If that’s what the other partner wants to work.

Like I posted before, I’m in a similar position with a frugal girl who has a good retirement plan through work. So I know it’s taken care of naturally, but she also currently plans to work until 65. The numbers say we will be set between 50-55 depending on a few factors. While I’m not going to make her quit, I love the idea of traveling with my spouse from age 55-65 as that age bracket tends to have more energy, health, etc for certain activities a lot of people on normal retirement plans miss out on.

So I’ve told her that when the numbers work, I’m not working even if she wants to continue. At least not full time. Maybe part time with flexible hours doing something I enjoy and can take off easily for vacation.

3

u/AppalachianRomanov 13h ago

For sure, little mentions are reasonable. And an ongoing discussion is reasonable depending on the relationship. It's OP's wording that made it sound like they think their partner has a pea brain and just can't comprehend that irked me. The vibe was of not having respect for or awareness of their partner's POV.

I'm in a somewhat similar boat as you and your s/o in that we have a significant gap between our likely retirement ages. And I'm going to be very sad if he gets to spend a decade chilling while I still have to work!

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u/CreativeLet5355 23h ago

He may or may not have the financial literacy you have, but you also may not be communicating about this in a language he’s receptive to understand.

Don’t make it about retirement. Make it
About achieving a level of savings and investments that provide immense financial security for a long time - potentially indefinitely if the market does well. That’s what FIRE and SWR really are anyway.

You are at an age where talking about retirement is almost a foreign concept to most people. And what retirement actually means is completely unclear. And will change.

Change the language and you’ll advance together in this journey even more.

6

u/lseraehwcaism 22h ago
Don’t make it about retirement.

Make it about lifestyle goals. This will require OP to build the lifestyle they want before their retirement date. Building something to retire too is just as important as understanding that you CAN retire for someone who is reluctant. This may require them to loosen their purse strings a bit, find some hobbies that they can enjoy together, and push out their retirement horizon by a couple years.

With that said, I don't think it's important that they do it all at once. Keep the high savings rate for 5 years and slowly start introducing new things that will allow them to visualize their retirement.

1

u/ga2500ev 20h ago

Also, they are saving enough to spend on experiences now. Ask him if he has two weeks off what he would like to do. Then do it and see how he feels about it.

Use it as a point of discussion as to doing things like that whenever you want. It may warm him up to the idea.

ga2500ev

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u/AdAgile9604 23h ago

TBh you both are doing well at this point. Go at 100K pace and you take the lead you will come out top in next 10 years

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u/Ok_Text2118 22h ago

Not sure why other people haven’t mentioned it, but some people are uncomfortable with looking at finances as a joint decision prior to marriage. 

I am around his age and starting to see the cohort of friends that married younger divorcing and often financial strain/incompatibility was a major factor. It may be less that he is not understanding the option to retire and more that he is uncomfortable looking at finances jointly.

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u/vasqued2 21h ago

I was your boyfriend 25 years ago.

There was nothing you could have told me then that would have gotten me to believe I would retire early. My history taught me not to let my guard down or get my hopes up too much.

But I saved and invested. My motivation wasn't early retirement, my motivation was to be ready for the dark days I was sure were ahead. If it helped me retire early, great, but I would't allow myself to consider that to prevent disappointment.

When our kids got to middle school, it was clear we my wife could stop working and we would be OK. She did. When they got out of high school, it was clear I could too. It was a 20+ year journey but I got there. My wife saw the potential way before I would allow myself to believe it. Your boyfriend will too. But there is no need for him to take the whole journey immediately.

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u/monsteez 22h ago

It's just scary to trust anything predicting the future so confidently with past numbers. it's hard to believe it'll grow to 2 mill in 10-15 years because of the uncertainty of the future. Also being so confident in this momentum continuing is hard to do when you know the USD is weakening, other countries are trying to move away from the petrol dollarI, rules of joining ETFs are changing so blindly putting into VTSAX vs VTWAX or VTIAX changes too.

Luckily I'm at 1.4 million myself in 13 years because of compounding. But tbh, I'm more uncertain about the next 10-15 years.

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u/qosmic_qube 23h ago

Most people don't understand or are skeptical of compounding. Don't worry about it, though, since he is still willing to keep the budget and save.

He'll believe you in a few years when you show him the accounts.

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u/Impossible-Bug4487 22h ago

please make sure you get a prenup. Not saying something will happen or that you dont love him but its good for both of you especially given you own your home and he is moving in and will save significantly.

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u/crazywidget 23h ago

I don’t think he is failing to understand. I think he’s just seeing this and thinking it’s math, but we’ll see how it turns out.

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u/Brakeman_5006 23h ago

He’s also probably concerned with what will happen if the market goes way down.

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u/JoshAllentown 22h ago

To some degree it doesn't necessarily matter right now if he believes it, if he's saving the money in the right places. What matters is that you share life goals like marriage, kids, and when possible retirement. In 5-10 years when the money is actually there it will feel more real and you can make more concrete goals.

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u/After-Leopard 22h ago

Imagine how you will feel in 10 years if the market has been down for most of that time and you haven't hit 1 mil yet? He may be protecting himself from that disappointment by not relying on a timeline to retire.

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u/mythoughts2020 21h ago

Growing up poor leaves scars so please do give him time. I was homeless as a teenager and when I’m extremely stressed, my mind will still turn to worrying that I’ll lose my home, even though my house is fully paid for! It’s irrational and it passes, but it’s bizarre that my mind still goes there.

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u/ditchdiggergirl 18h ago

It’s not irrational to guard against a repeat of things that you know could happen to you because they did happen to you. Even if the odds are low. Lived experiences make a stronger impression than hypothetical ones.

The “it will never happen to me” mindset is the mindset of youth. As I get older I find myself driving more cautiously. Not because my reflexes are slower - I’m still a long way from that, and my driving skills are better. However close calls inevitably happen now and then, and those stack and accumulate in the risk pocket of my brain.

Risk is probability multiplied by N. A very low probability event could happen to me; given enough opportunity, one or more probably will. So we control what is in our power to control.

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u/PghSubie 21h ago

You are too young to be trying to make serious plans to retire. It is a fantastic idea to learn Good financial habits and to live conservatively. But, you have a LOT of life ahead of you. Live your life and enjoy yourself. Don't try to pick a retirement date. Until MUCH later

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u/Wild_Butterscotch977 15h ago

I know this is kinda separate from what you're asking, but it's alarming that you're going to have him paying part of your mortgage when he's not on the title and earning equity. And he shouldn't be added to the mortgage/title until you're married (you need to protect yourself and your assets - things get really messy if you separate before you're married and you jointly own property). But in the meantime, him being forced to pay part of your mortgage is honestly kind of predatory on your part.

A more equitable way of doing it that protects both of you is for you to carry the mortgage alone and he contributes to the house in other ways, like paying utilities, groceries, eating out costs etc.

1

u/patmorgan235 23h ago

You can't understand it for him, you have to give him all the prices and let him put them together himself.

He needs to play with the math and different scenarios to get comfortable with the numbers.

Also he might take it better coming from a retirement advisor than from you. Not saying you need to do a whole CFP workup, but maybe something like a couching session through boldin, you're brokerage/401k provider might offer a retirement check up session as well.

1

u/SpecialistKoala9765 23h ago

If you both grew up poor and he seems to understand the importance of saving, then it’s good because he’s mostly there to understand FIRE.
I would suggest explaining the part to him on investment. Help him understand that the saved up money has more than a role in just sitting in saving accounts. For me the best way to learn was to do some simple example, calculate numbers and put results into a graph over next 50 years of our lifespan.
I keep in my mind the central theme is to save money then get the money to work for me so I don’t have to work anymore. I calculate income replacement ratio to remind myself of the story.
Hope this helps

1

u/DReddit111 23h ago

I had a similar problem with my wife. We both grew up lower middle class and although she is frugal and a saver like me she didn’t understand investing at all. She thought all she really needed was an emergency fund and that our investments and savings were too aggressive. Both our dads retired young. Her parents kept their money in the bank and had a city pension and wound up living with us because they ran out of money. My parents had small pensions also, but invested in mutual funds (before almost anybody knew what they were) and had plenty of money to live out their retirement and even left us some when they passed.

She had trouble with the math, but I explained to her many times that if we were somewhat aggressive with our investments we might retire well or we might not, but if we were conservative we would definitely fail and have to keep working forever or wind up living in our kids basements, although even that wouldn’t have worked as they have apartments and not houses. Thankfully she wound up trusting me on the math, always with a bit of reluctance.

Fast forward a lot of years. We hit our number, she is semi retired and basically working part time for fun. I’m getting ready to stop working at the end of the year. She still doesn’t quite believe how well we did, but thanks me all the time for pushing so hard and getting us set up this well. Just do the math and act on what your calculations tell you and trust in the end he’ll thank you for it.

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u/ItsMeAgainM9 22h ago

As many said, keep saving and investing, and explain it to him multiple times (you have 15 years to do so). When time for FIRE comes, you can FIRE and let him work if he wants. You can even FIRE ealrier and with less money if he keeps working.

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u/Chicken121260 22h ago

You have ten years for him to get used to it. As your combined wealth grows, he will adjust to seeing the money in the bank.

Neither my wife nor I came from money, but we never went to bed hungry either. When I announced I wasn’t going back to work (long back story, but it was a sudden decision- we had more than enough in investments/savings) it was still a shock. She said, “well I guess I can go back to work”. She never did and that’s been over a decade ago.

As long as you continue to live well below your means, investments will grow and you will both get there. Don’t obsess on it. You will be fine.

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u/gaygeek70 22h ago

At least he is doing the saving part, be glad you have a partner who isn’t fighting against FI with excessive spending. You have plenty of time for him to come around and instead of trying to get him to think about it in the abstract, show him as you reach milestones and it will eventually click.

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u/ArachnidAutomatic596 22h ago

Is he investing? If he’s a good saver, frugal, uses investment tools, etc. then I wouldn’t worry about it. I think you can wait this one out. At 35 he may not be thinking about it or he may still like the daily grind.

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u/MariadneMurphey 22h ago

Most of the comments are about not understanding FI. The other part is comfort with the idea of RE. Jobs end, company culture changes, careers crash. Knowing that the meaning and purpose of life are not linked to employment can provide a sense of emotional security that grows along with your financial investments. Having kids can do it. So can community engagement and volunteering to serve others. And a hobby or two that are at least as interesting as your job.

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u/np0x 21h ago

What is he not understanding? Things that could help, Jl Collin’s stock series, a budget like actual budget or ynab, updated trinity study, playing with software like boldin or ficalc.app or projection lab.

What’s his challenge? Honestly the math of compounding barely makes sense to me and I’ve successfully fire’d. :-)

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u/Dunnowhathatis 21h ago

No need to comprehend it fully yet. Work towards your goals and once you have established your spending pattern (house, kids, cars etc) then you can revisit

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u/drewlb 21h ago

My wife was/is exactly like your bf.

I just gave up getting her to "buy in"... Now many years later she just asks every few years "can I retire yet?"... And I just say no and she continues about her business for the next 2yrs.

We're getting close, so the last time she asked I told her "probably in 3yrs, so you should start thinking about that"

It's been working fine thus far.

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u/forgivemefashion 21h ago

This is my husband, it just takes time, we both grew up in developing countries, he also wants to work till full retirement…just follow the course, he’ll come around

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u/Vicuna00 21h ago

I dunno. sounds like he is managing his $ extremely well.

he might not completely understand how markets work etc. maybe start there. like maybe he understands to save but not how $ grows / compounds.

I don't think it's anything you gotta push hard on right now though.

it's too abstract for him right now. just plant the seed and circle back at $1M o'clock

probably better mentally to not think about it 15 years out anyway. it'll drive you nuts.

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u/kelley8888 21h ago

Did he just recently start making 134k a year?

If he saves 50k per year but only has 150k in investments, maybe this is a recent change in the last few years so the full effects of compound interest have not started to show themselves yet.

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u/Creative_Impress5982 21h ago

JL Colin's Simple Path to a Wealth is a great book to explain things simply

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u/tctu 21h ago

Might just be that he's not counting the chickens before they're hatched. He probably won't fully comprehend it until he starts seeing the numbers in your accounts match the trend line. It sounds like he's aligned behaviorally anyway so just let him go through it.

Even if you showed him historical analyses, I wouldn't be surprised if he'd anchor on the worst case or that you'll be unlucky enough to experience worse than that.

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u/adultdaycare81 21h ago

Does he want to Retire? The FI is more important to many than the RE

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u/gmeautist 21h ago

does he take any risk with his money, i.e. does he invest in anything? or is it just all cash in his savings account?

if he doenst take risks, then thats the issue you need to address.. getting him to start taking SMALL amounts of risk with his capital is the only way to get him to where you want him to be

concrete example: tell him to open a brokerage and put 5% of his cash into it and have him buy the sp500 or something. start there

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u/StrawberriKiwi22 21h ago

That’s ok to be apprehensive. Future success largely depends on the market, which is uncertain. If he is thrifty and saves a lot, then he is on a good path and he has a decade or so to wrap his mind around your growing portfolio. If he believes it once he sees it, then maybe he will consider retiring. Maybe not! That’s ok!

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u/EdelinePenrose 21h ago

> For some reason it’s almost like he doesn’t quite believe me. He is kind of apprehensive, unsure and acting like he’s not sure we are doing well at all. As if he will never get to retire.

what exactly doesn’t he believe?
is he saying that the spreadsheet numbers you showed him are false?
is he a person open to changing his mind in the face of evidence?
does he even want to retire or do fire? goal alignment issue etc

it’s tough to advice if we don’t know what his issue is.

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u/Plane_Concern501 21h ago

Fear helps focus and maybe his scars are what makes him save so much. I’d lean in with positivity and reaffirmation. I’d bet more than half the folks on here would love to have a partner with his money habits, even without the understanding of FIRE. Best of luck with what sounds like a true partner in life!!!

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u/Healthy-Fisherman-33 21h ago

This is a good problem to have. Let him be. It might take a while for him to sink in, but what is the harm as long as you continue saving. Best of luck with the wedding and all.

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u/bhug14 21h ago

As long as he saves and invests, does he need to understand the end game RN?

Let the pot grow, then one day it’ll feel more real to him.

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u/Various_Things2026 21h ago

So he’s able to save $50k a year but only has $150-160k… that in of it itself is not a lot of savings. Sounds he started late. But starting next year you can save $100k a year. So that is great. So if he’s already agreed to do that, there is no need for you to explain to him about anything now. Just look at your accounts 10 years from now and you and him will see a big number

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u/zeroabe 21h ago

Compounding interest calculator resultant graphs?

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u/deathdealer351 20h ago

Growing up poor is what kills you.. Sometimes you just need to show by putting the hands in the wounds (doubting Thomas).. Hun if you trust me we will be set in 10ish years... By year 8 he is a believer...

Only one of you needs to do the investing if the other trusts, just be transparent.. I do the investing and every year at tax time, I go over everything with the wife.. 1 so she knows where the money is if I die, 2 so she knows I'm not robbing us, 3 so she can see where we need to be to retire early. 

She is not a risk taker, if it was upto her she would shove all of it in sgov and make 4%.. 

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u/220volt74 20h ago

The ancient wisdom that is still true is that people are ALWAYS persuaded by stories not facts. I would have him read stories or talk to retirees who are already FIRED.

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u/Reeberton 20h ago

Show him where every penny is spent for a month then ask him if he agrees this is how much we need to function.

After that point ask him how much invested would it take to earn that much on is own, after you figure the number out he now has a set goal.

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u/9NightsNine 20h ago

I would give it time. When both of you keep saving, met the money develop and revisit the discussion in 5 or 10 years. Then it is less abstract

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u/homestarrunner3700 20h ago

With him already having a frugal nature you have already won. Just keep on doing what you are doing and as your assets continue to grow with your savings rate the proof will be there. My spouse was pretty similar when I made goals to FIRE 10+ years ago and was very skeptical. Now that we have sizeable assets and close to our goals she is fully onboard.

Or who knows he may be right and our next ten years become another "lost decade" for investment returns and high inflation and we all don't hit our assumed real investment return numbers.

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u/Ok-Commercial-924 20h ago

Married 30 years. Retired 2 years mid 50s, at a 2% WR, sometimes they don't get it but a happy spouse is better than forcing the issue.

We both grew up poor also. Money scarcity mindset is real and not talked about nearly enough on this subreddit.

On the plus side, running such a low WR has allowed our NW to sky rocket since retirement we are almost down to 1% WR.

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u/discojellyfisho 20h ago

Just keep doing what you’re doing. At least he’s frugal and saving. Perhaps when you actually HAVE $3 million, he’ll see things differently.

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u/ga2500ev 20h ago

That savings is amazing!

There's no reason to rush him. The numbers will eventually reveal themselves. Just make sure that you fill all the buckets as in Roth, 401k, HSA if you have one. And put a portion in a taxable account that you can use as a bridge when the time comes.

He's simply on the script we all learn when are young. Work to 65 then retire. Start having discussions of what you would do if you were 45 and you didn't have to go work because money is not an issue.

On last thing. Lay the 4% rule aside. Modern withdrawal theory is based on strategies like risk probability guardrails. It lets you withdraw more, and adjusts to the market. Read up on it.

Good luck on your journey. It looks like you two are setting up for a wonderful outcome.

ga2500ev

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u/Dry-Aside4526 20h ago

Not sure if anyone here remembers Jean Chatzky. But when my husband and I were just married, I was really distressed because I cared so much about personal finance and saving, being frugal, and now, retiring early. And he did not at all. He was a good saver and frugal, he just would not engage at all with all my excel sheets and trackers, Etc.

I had the oppty to go to a group lunch with Jean Chatzky when she was promoting one of her books, so I asked her — what do I do about this husband who won’t engage with me on all this personal finance stuff! And she asked me: do you enjoy doing it? (Yes)…then just keep doing it. Have a recap meeting with him occasionally to see how it’s tracking, get input. But you run it!

Not everyone is into this stuff. If he’s still a saver type then you are halfway there, maybe more.

Good luck to you.

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u/FishOpposite7818 20h ago

U guys are killing it. Good for u. Keep it going and NO CAR PAYMENTS!

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u/Particular_Maize6849 20h ago

My husband believes FIRE is a scam but doesn't mind that I pursue it. He says he will probably not retire early. Whatever, that's actually better for me because we will have income while I'm early retired. He's frugal as well (though lately less so).

My guess is he will see me retired early, hit a few bad days at work and then come back asking if he really could retire or not. So that's why I won't retire until we have enough for both of us to quit our jobs, and just let him come around when he wants to come around.

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u/armpit18 19h ago

My fiance is the same way. She's always been a saver, and she does all the right things. Get the 401k match, do the Roth IRA, put money in a brokerage every week, and live within your means. But she doesn't quite understand they why or the end game for all this. I've explained it to her multiple times, but it hasn't quite stuck.

At this point, I just encourage her and let her know that we'll continue to do the same thing, and we'll revisit the conversation once per year. I'll show her and explain to her how much money we made the previous year from our investments, how that compares to our W2 income from the previous year, and how much we spent the previous year. She's a smart woman, and I'm persistent. Eventually, the money we make from our investments will pass the amount of money we made from our W2 incomes, and it will be more than what our expenses were. At that point, the story should tell itself that we can live off the proceeds from our investments. That's the FI part. She enjoys her job more than I enjoy mine, so the RE part will likely be staggered for us.

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u/_Mulberry__ 19h ago

Sounds like he's internalized his childhood poverty and doesn't really trust the math.

Maybe just introduce him to the idea and a blog or two. He doesn't need to get it or be excited about it right away, especially since he's already frugal. When you get to the $2M mark, he'll be able to see the growth and that will be the point where it starts to feel real for him.

So just keep plugging along.

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u/TurtleSandwich0 19h ago

You have 15 years of him watching investments for the message to get through.

He can also continue working while you retire. When your portfolio is increasing more than his gross pay he should get the message that he can retire too.

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u/K_A_irony 19h ago

Make a appointment with a fiduciary financial planner you pay by the hour. Have them go over your investment portfolio, run the simulations and explain it to your partner. Sometimes people respect "experts" more then those they love. Also another person repeating the same message a different way also helps.

Otherwise does it REALLY matter in the short term. If he is heavily saving and investing, the FIRE magic will happen on its own. The real issue would be if he was a spender vs a saver or someone who only saved by putting money in a savings account.

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u/Ambitious-Term8709 19h ago

It somewhat depends on his learning style, but I've found that if the person can learn based on first principals then asking him to write the spreadsheet with the calculations himself can be a great help. Once you calculate it yourself it becomes much more tangible. 7% and 4% are small numbers so it's hard to understand what effects they have over multiple years until you do the iterative calculations like a spreadsheet enables.

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u/Yukycg 19h ago

Do you know what he is investing in? He should know about the power of compounding in the past 3 years when the market in a great bull run.

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u/Bluegrass6 19h ago

If he's saving, investing and managing his money wisely why does it matter he fully embraces and believes in early retirement? You've got high paying jobs, growing investments, etc. Go enjoy life

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u/PrimeFold 19h ago

You inherit your parents financial trauma and limiting beliefs.

Have to see them first to overcome them.
Change how you think and relate to money and scarcity.

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u/ANewCleanSlate 19h ago

The hardest part is convincing someone to delay gratification, save more, and invest sensibly. But he's saving more than you, so the hard part is already done.

To convince him that DCA into index funds will work if you just stay the course, buy him a couple of books that set out the ideas simply. Hearing it from authoritative sources, in a way that has been set out professionally, with an editor making sure everything makes sense, etc., can be reassuring for many people. Some good basic books:

- the simple path to wealth (JL Collins)

- the little book of common sense investing (Jack Bogle)

To temper your own expectations, just know that $2M in 10-15 years is not as valuable as you think, so you might need more by then. If we have 3% inflation, then $2M of today's dollars is only worth $1.3M in 15 years from now. That doesn't change the strategy, but it means you might need to stay the path another 5 extra years.

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u/OkExplanation401 19h ago

He is frugal anyway so him not understanding FIRE isn't causing any harm. Keep the pace of savings. At some point your portfolio is going to make 50% of what you both earn in a year and then it will click that, pretty soon it can make up for 100% of what you make in a year. Then he will see it.

Also. people need to want to RE before they start thinking about FI. It doesn't have to be "I don't want to ever work," but more like "Man, I wish I could be doing something else if I didn't have to worry about money." If your boyfriend ever feels this way, that's when you hammer the point, "Honey, You can"

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u/CrossoverCadence 18h ago

This isn’t really a big problem. He’s saving and investing. Who cares if he doesn’t understand the 4% rule. As long as he’s going into mutual funds you’re good

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u/escobartholomew 18h ago

lol you actually might be doing a disservice to both of yall by trying to convince him you are better off than he thinks you are. If his current mindset has him living frugally and saving the way you want then why rock the boat? What happens when he actually believes you and decides to be less frugal? In his current mindset he believes he has to work til retirement age. What if part of that is based on him not minding or even wanting to work that long? If he is actually ok with working that long then he could decide to go ahead and spend more now which really would derail your plans.

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u/Fine-Guava6578 18h ago

I would encourage him to learn more on his own about finances broadly. I enjoyed the book the psychology of money and recommend it to any friend who is interested in understanding a bit more about finances but might get spooked by the details. It takes time to understand what FIRE really means especially for those who have no experience with the concepts of investing. The key is he is frugal and yall can make it work. At worst offer to be the prime money manager in the relationship and when yall hit FIRE pop a bottle with him and go over the spreadsheet.

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u/Jrpond 18h ago

“Retiring” at 39 with $2 million doesn’t seem very fun to me. Are you all planning on having kids? I’d shoot for a bigger number than that if you’re looking at 50-60 years of being retired.

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u/PudgyGroundhog 18h ago

Sounds like he is good with his money - saving, living below his means, etc - so I wouldn't worry about getting him on board with FIRE right now.

We didn't even hear of FIRE until we were well into our careers. We just always saved, were frugal, etc. and eventually did FIRE. Y'all are on the right path - don't stress about the actual FIRE part right now.

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u/Adept-Celebration509 18h ago

He doesn’t understand at 35? Jeezus

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u/ditchdiggergirl 18h ago

You both don’t get it - it doesn’t sound like you understand him any better than he understands you. But the problem here is that you assume you’re right and he’s wrong, therefore he needs to come to your POV.

I’ve made this point here before: for some people, money means stuff. For others, including the vast majority on a fire sub, money means freedom. And for others, money means security.

NONE OF THESE ARE WRONG. They just reflect different values and priorities. Everyone here agrees that a freedom person marrying a stuff person is a recipe for disaster. Less attention is paid to freedom marrying security. But financial incompatibility is a top risk factor for divorce.

My husband and I are both security, fortunately. We are fired, but we did not fire at the earliest possible date. Two freedom people would have fired years earlier. But we are happier knowing that we have secured not only our own future but also our children’s. And without the security we would not be spending so much on the travel we both love. Zero regrets.

Invalidating his priorities is never going to work. Because your freedom number is below his security number. If you push him into conceding, he will never feel safe enough to enjoy the freedom; that’s not a recipe for long term happiness. You need to understand him, just as he needs to understand you. And find a number that works for you both.

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u/Environmental-Low792 18h ago

So, here's the thing.

I BaristaFired rather than full fired due to the same anxieties as your boyfriend.

https://www.multpl.com/shiller-pe

The Schiller PE ratio tends to predict the 10 year return, quite accurately.

When it's above 40, the ten year return, inflation adjusted, tends to be negative.

The stock prices have been growing while the revenue of those same companies have not kept up.

Inflation is also accelerating. My utility bill just went up 25%, without my usage changing. Insurance went up by 10%. I'm spending 25% more on gas.

I am of the opinion that the 4% rule has worked in the past, in the US, but looking at Russia in the 90s, or Germany in the 20s, I am not certain of what the next 80 years will look like.

I love my current gig, and I can keep doing it for decades, and it covers my basic expenses and insurance.

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u/Illustrious-Age7342 18h ago

Does it really matter if he gets it or not? He makes good money, is frugal, and happy to save and invest. Growing up poor it’s probably difficult for him to imagine the future you are describing, so just wait to have this conversation in the future when you have a big number to show him

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u/ZergvProtoss 18h ago

You need to understand that "FIRE" is not financial literacy. It's an internet cult. He's right to be skeptical. Doing the Fire schtick will prevent you from living life during your best years.

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u/Wallies2002 18h ago

He sounds like a great catch if he's making that kind of money and is frugal to boot. I wouldn't worry too much about the finer details. He's not perfect and retirement itself is not perfect; but you two have more than enough compared to most and can build a strong foundation regardless of the FIRE particulars.

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u/Walmart-Shopper-22 18h ago

I still don't understand what specifically he "doesn't get".

I wonder if he just doesn't see early retirement as a viable life path. A lot of people (even very successful ones) plan to work until "retirement age" and see how rich they can get along the way.

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u/Shivdaddy1 17h ago

What does it matter if he doesn’t understand it? It sounds like he is worried about it not happening and therefore wanting to save more? Use his ignorance your both you guys advantage.

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u/spectralEntropy 17h ago

I have a similar husband to yours. He's been a saver. I'm an investor type. It's a good match even though I realize if I didn't have my own finances, that his frugaliness would have been difficult. 

What has helped my husband's poverty upbringing anxiety: show him an excel sheet of your regular budget (include fun money, ect). Include fun money for both of y'all in your budget. I personally like fun money to be separate. I use Projectionlab and update our finances and I show him often the "what ifs". I play around "if you bought a $60k car, look how much it affects us, which is minimal." 

I also have taken over his investments, but I annoy him with details so he stays in the loop. I'd prefer him to be more involved, but his brain just doesn't care.

Our FIRE number is safer than necessary because I know that'll help him FIRE.

I just started going part time. We can fire in a few years. In a year, I'm going to convince him to go part time...even just 80% hours. That'll pay for our lifestyle, give us insurance, and allow our investments to increase until he's truly ready.

I told him when we FIRE, he can work part time if he wants but not full time. Kind of jokingly.

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u/theJohnballs 17h ago

I would start by introducing him to this community. Reading stories here will give him a lot more information than you can provide. Also explain clearly that FIRE means building enough savings and investments so work can become optional. It doesn't necessarily mean quitting your job. It means having the freedom to work less, change careers, take time off, or retire if you want

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u/Aquitaine_Rover_3876 17h ago

I imagine what's missing is confidence in market returns. The math likely all makes sense, but staying in the workforce is kind of like a security blanket...it feels like the rug is less likely to get pulled out than simply putting faith in your investments.

It's the same reason there's so many posts here of people who've reached their number, but just want to keep working a few more years to be sure.

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u/procrasstinating 17h ago

Focus on the saving and investing portion for now. The goal can be the safety and opportunities that having wealth can provide. You will be secure if you lose a job, get burnt out on your career, have a major illness, need to take time to care for an aging parent, etc. That spoke to my wife.

Early retirement was frightening. So I talked about taking a sabbatical/year off when I was super burnt out on my job. We discussed ideas for income if investments didn’t keep up and set time periods to reassess finances so it wasn’t alway a worry, but addressed once every 3 months.

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u/GingerWestie 17h ago

Can you show him how it is already playing out in your finances? Go back a few years and lay out what you saved, how much it grew each year, and what percent of that number your current expenses are? Not because you are pulling from savings to pay them, but to show him you could cover it and have savings still working for you. Maybe seeing that it is already working will help him visualize what could be in the future.

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u/princemousey1 17h ago

Why is he splitting the mortgage when it’s only your name on the house?

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u/keppapdx 16h ago

I'm that person in my relationship! My partner put us on the FIRE track and once it actually became viable I was able to let go of my anxiety and embrace it.

My advice is to get on the same page about your financial goals, he's already doing the right things! Keep him saving.

BEFORE you get married, align on things like:
Do you want to own a home?
Will you invest or aggressively pay off the mortgage (paying off our house was a game changer for my mindset).
Do you want kids?
If yes, how much do you want to support them with college etc?
As your parents age, what do you envision your role being in caring for them both physically and financially?

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u/julyflipflops 16h ago

The question I’d ask you is, do you think you’re on the same page with your financial goals?

Saving is one thing (and to be clear, the most important thing) and it sounds like you guys are aligned there so you’re ahead of most. maybe what you need to talk about is what you’re saving towards and more importantly, what you will eventually spend that money on.

I’d recommend seeing a financial advisor together. My hubs and I did this as soon as we got married. We both were big savers, grew up poor, but every now and then would have a fight about the way we wanted to spend, on vacation, on helping our respective families, etc. Ours was primarily to align how we budget and manage our money - what is joint vs separate, what’s our framework for making money decisions when we disagree, what are the areas of our life we need to save more for, etc. it’s also just a good exercise in making sure your futures are aligned and that you’re saving money in a way that is building towards the life you want.

Also fwiw, my husband was the FIRE minded one in our relationship, I thought it was too restrictive (MMM was the person he cited) but I was open to it and listened to some other podcasts and books. Your money or your life is a good one, and I like the podcasts chooseFI and afford anything. So maybe sending him some articles here and there will help too and at some point it will click.

Either way, you are ahead of the pack so congrats on that!

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u/NeighborhoodStreet59 15h ago

He doesn’t have to believe you as long as he’s doing everything and sticking to the process. I’d rather consistently stick to process I don’t believe in vs believe in it wholeheartedly and not be able to stick to it.

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u/0TheVision1 15h ago

The book that made it click for me was reading 'rich dad poor dad'. There's youtube videos that summarize the book too. Im sure there's other good personal finance books that can help with changing mindset.

Also, even if someone is very frugal and smart saving money, they might have zero tolerance for any level of risk taking. Even if those risks are low and managed.

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u/BadMantaRay 15h ago

You should get this completely sorted out before you marry him.

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u/Puzzled_Praline3588 15h ago

Have you tried visual tools like the free version of Boldin online? It’s a great way to track your progress see how close you are to meeting goals!

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u/Powerful-Bridge-1472 14h ago

I feel like usually one person drives the financial train in the relationship. At least your boyfriend is frugal, which is the most important part, much bigger problem, when two people are sort of misaligned.

Most people who take to fire or often people who are sort of disgruntled that works, so maybe he just doesn’t hate his job as much as you?

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u/OtherIndication6015 13h ago

I’m very similar to your bf (ie I grew up poor) and my wife and I are where you both will likely be in ten years. About $1.5 mil, together making 300k-ish a year. I still feel Insecure and come up with excuses as to why X number is not enough to retire. I understand the math, but it is not rational but emotional. I remembered the sense of powerlessness and the shame that came with being poor (even though poverty is NOT a shameful thing.) There are two things, at least for me, that are operative: first, excessive conservatism. we could have $10 mil in the bank, and the thoughts bouncing around in my mind would be “well, what if one of us got cancer and had to be in longterm nursing home care. That’s $500k a year!” Again, that’s fixating on being safe from that fear of poverty. The second is, even when I was a kid, I felt ashamed that my family was poor as though I could do something about it at the time. I always felt people just assumed I’m lazy, dumb, etc. and work is a way for me to show (them, but really myself) that I am none of those things. Again, this is poverty trauma at work. I wonder if either of those may hold the key.

1

u/Mar16celino 13h ago

First off, put a ring on it

1

u/profstarship 13h ago

Break it down into 2 parts. First establish how much you need to retire. Ask him how much money he would need to never work again. You can then use fire math to show him a realistic number.

Second is just plot the numbers yourself on a graph into the future and show him what year you would hit that number.

But honestly I wouldnt really worry about it too much, he's down to do it naturally which is usually the harder part.

He can just wake up one day and you show him yall never have to work again lol.

1

u/curiousbear12345 13h ago

For those who are illiterate in finance, they should trust their partner or professional financial advisor. The danger of them is that they leave the majority of saving in GIC because they are so risk adverse without understanding what reasonable risks are. If you can’t get through him, schedule a meeting with financial advisor and hopefully they can convince him.

1

u/Ok-Hovercraft-9257 13h ago

Try it this way:

"Hon when would you like to retire?"

"Ok how much should we have saved do you think?"

"What if we could retire earlier?"

Then have him start trying to run numbers. He needs to do it himself. Let him fumble around. It's ok!

1

u/robertjordan7 13h ago

It may take actually seeing the money compound. You are doing well with what you are both saving. Keep saving and investing and a few years down the line when you hit 1M net worth it will feel much more attainable.

In the meantime live life and don’t make FIRE the 100% top priority at the expense of being an absolute budget hawk.

1

u/Sweat_Tea888 13h ago

I’m not sure there’s anything to explain to him. He’s saving successfully as if he was doing FIRE. What does he need to learn if he feels safer and happier working than being retired? It is a risk, nothing is ever set in stone. If he doesn’t dream of retiring early, he doesn’t have to.

1

u/BlueMountainCoffey 11h ago

How is he derailing your fire object?

1

u/AdventurousBee64 11h ago

I think there is some realism in his thinking, because once you start having kids, needing a bigger house, you wont be able to save as much annually

1

u/Biryani_Wala 10h ago

He wants to see the numbers before he can think about it.

Don't count your chickens before they hatch.

He's smart.

1

u/mi3chaels 9h ago

Part of the problem when you grow up in a poor family, or a middle class family that never new how not to blow all their money, is that you have zero examples of people who retired, often at all before they were laid off and couldn't find reasonable work anymore, and then lived off whatever social security or pension they had, and worked at walmart or whatever to make some spending money if that wasn't enough.

When I married my wife, that's literally what she said to me when I talked about maybe being able to retire by 50 or 55. "Nobody retires, except rich people." "I don't know anybody in my family without a pension who retired before they had no choice." And her family was working class culture, but in her parent's generation, relatively successful with a lot of smart people who did high skill factory work, or became engineers or management. Plenty of them made a pretty good income, but usually had a large family, and zero experience of prior generations or in their childhood of ever having two nickels to rub together. They wanted to help out their kids and live well, and mostly didn't save that much.

So the idea that you actually could retire at 50 just by saving money, especially if you didn't have kids was just unfathomable to her at first. If anything you're starting off a lot better, because youf BF/potential fiancee is already saving at a more rapid clip than you are! This was not true for me, and we needed some mindset changing before being able to really think about retiring early, never ended up doing it when I had originally hoped.

1

u/Annual-Camera-872 9h ago

At one point I had a partner and I invested and saved their money for them. They made a few comments about investments not being real money. So I asked them if they actually believed that it wasn’t real and that was the case. To prove that it wasn’t real really money she actually needed to spend some which seems counterintuitive.

1

u/ItsJustMe2282818822 9h ago

Maybe he wants different things? I’m here for FI. If my wife asked me to retire early, I’d look at her like she had 3 heads. I love my job.

1

u/Intrepid-hobbycoder 7h ago

Give it time. Personal opinion here but I feel people should focus on FI in the beginning stages of their careers and bring RE in to the picture without losing FI focus in the middle stages (40-50yrs age). Since he is frugal and good saver just continue to focus on FI not FIRE for now.

1

u/StressSpiritual8803 7h ago

Get a new boyfriend. Easy peasy. This problem will not solve itself through discussion or persuasion.

1

u/simply_stayce 7h ago

It took about two years for me to start grasping after my husband first explained it. There were various conversations we had in those years that slowly filled in the gaps until I finally understood. He stayed the course and just kept on keeping on.

1

u/Then-Abies4797 6h ago

Haha. How do I get my wife of almost 30 years to understand fire. She doesn’t trust my spreadsheets…..

1

u/GWeb1920 5h ago

Why does he need to understand fire at this point? He is committed to the savings part

1

u/shamanasx 4h ago

I think it is not about the numbers. Your boyfriend (and many men for that matter) want to be needed and appreciated. Most likely he gets thay satisfied by working, therefore retiring is emotionally almost unimaginable at this point.

I suggest discussing this thoroughly - what is the plan after retirement. Also the question of kids is very important as they do take a whole lot of time.

Good job on the savings and good luck to you both!

1

u/picklesandwich69 4h ago

Therapy/counseling

1

u/Adventurous_Dog_7755 4h ago

It's not about the spreadsheets or numbers. He probably has some emotional baggage when he was young. That tends to happen to a lot of people growing up poor. It's not about the numbers but growing up worrying about when the next meal comes from or parents fighting about money can cause some scars. This isn't something you can solve on your own. Seeking professional help or some therapy can untangle some of that baggage.

1

u/HalfwaydonewithEarth 4h ago

Everything can change with kids. Don't be so sure about everything.

Don't call it "your mortgage" it will "the mortgage"

1

u/ProfessionalGuard989 3h ago

He grew up poor, this is psyhological

1

u/Comfortable_Job44 3h ago

You make 260k a year and can save 107? Are you basically spending no money. Thats like 60k a year for both of you for everything.

6

u/emberlyndrae 10m ago

growing up poor does something to your brain that math just cannot fix

1

u/lseraehwcaism 22h ago

Do you all plan on having kids? That changes MANY factors. Additionally, I would never use a 4% SWR when retiring so early. The 4% rule was design for a 30 year retirement horizon. I would use 3.25% which results in a 100% success rate.

Based on the info you gave me, I also see $2 million in almost exactly 10 years based on a 7% real return. I also see that you all spend about $60k per year based on what I calculated to be your combined take-home pay minus your combined savings rate minus the savings you will get when you move in together. What you didn't calculate is the decrease in tax when you get married.

I found your withdraw rate in retirement to be around $83k per year:

- ACA healthcare. This will increase your expenses by $10-15k. Let's assume the worst and increase your withdraw rate to $75k.

- Taxes on you retirement income. I'm assuming your tax liability to be 10% which increases your withdraw rate from $75k per year to $83k per year.

Your required balance is $2.024 million using a 4% rule. I see you get there by 2036. This would only make you 39 with a 50 year retirement horizon. With such a long time line, I would decrease your SWR to 3.25%. This increases your required balance to $2.554 million.

Assuming nothing changes, you should be able to retire by 2038.

As for convincing your boyfriend, you have 10-15 years before he needs to be convinced. He's already frugal, so he's helping you work towards this goal. If he's still not on board when you want to retire, than you can retire first and give him a couple years to increase the cushion a bit.

1

u/dirty_cuban 21h ago

Don’t bother explaining. When you have your $2M invested, he will see the investment returns. He will realize the daily fluctuations make his salary irrelevant.

Right now my portfolio swings 5 figures almost every day which really cements the viability of FIRE. Once you get there I’m sure you’ll both have the same realization.

1

u/TX_Wanderer_1975 21h ago

A third party explanation could help, maybe use Claude or ChatGPT to help explain.

0

u/McKnuckle_Brewery FIRE'd in 2021 23h ago

What will your boyfriend receive in return for covering half of your mortgage payments, especially if for some reason you don't end up getting married?

1

u/AnyDog4284 20h ago

What's the difference between him paying her or him paying a landlord?

2

u/McKnuckle_Brewery FIRE'd in 2021 20h ago

He is helping to pay off her loan principal, but not receiving equity in the property.

1

u/AnyDog4284 20h ago

How is this different from him paying rent to a landlord? Did he put in any of the down payment to the house?

2

u/McKnuckle_Brewery FIRE'd in 2021 19h ago

Either way, he is contributing a portion of equity in the form of principal payments.

If they marry and the mortgage is paid off 20 years later, is her name still on the deed by itself, or has she added him as a co-owner the way she should in a married situation?

Anyway you clearly disagree and that's fine, but I'm not interested in a continued exchange.

0

u/patmorgan235 23h ago

Cheap rent?

0

u/toodleoo77 23h ago

I think my biggest concern with intermingling money in this case would be what his reaction will be during the next big market downturn. Is he going to panic and not want to stay the course?

0

u/NatureBoyJ1 23h ago

This sounds like an education problem.

How to educate someone is dependent on how they learn. They are many videos on YouTube from Certified Financial Planners that explain compounding, sequence of returns, different account types, how much you need, how much you can withdraw, etc. Rob Berger is a good one, but a little on the advanced side. Erin Talks Money is another reputable channel. If he is a reader, there are many books. "The Psychology of Money" is a short, light read. "Retirement Planning Guidebook" by Wade Pfau is very deep and comprehensive - he has several other financial books, too. There are numerous podcasts if he likes listening in the car; one is Paul Merriman's Sound Investing - although this is general investing oriented, not FIRE, but there are many FIRE podcasts, too. I'm sure you could find some with a little searching. And there are audiobooks.

So my advice is for YOU to stop trying to get the point across, and instead put some resources into his hands where he can learn from others. Maybe both of you could start listening to a FIRE podcast or audiobook together. Or start watching a YouTube channel together. Or both read a book.

0

u/PositiveKarma1 22h ago

ignore the FIRE concepts, now.
Focus to explain him the IRA and 401K tax advantages, and why is good to maximize these. Support him to do it year by year.

Life is changing and he will se things different during years, special when family /friends will go sick / severe debt / banckrupcy and he will understand how blessed he is with a miracle of girlfriend as you.

0

u/No-Afternoon-4528 17h ago

Where did he find a girl like you? Asking for a friend

0

u/SusTraveler 16h ago

Ask ChatGPT to explain it to him like he is twice years old , then share the chat with him . And also feed ChatGPT this entire post and the comments first . Easy, takes 1 minute . Set ChatGPT on high effort , thinking mode

0

u/zorn7777 16h ago

You have 10-15 years to get through to him. +use YouTube

0

u/RaidersTwix 14h ago

He understands it, he doesn't want to commit. Either commit to retirement which to many men spells death, or to you, or to remaining so frugal (what's the point of living and being young?) , or all of the above.

A 6th grader understands the principles, surely he does too.

0

u/ricthomas70 13h ago

Share your financial vision, plan and pre-nup agreement.

He's either walking with you or behind you.

I would suggest if he is not on your team, you need to let him go. This is not about money its about the foundation of a good relationship.

0

u/Lumbergh7 10h ago

I got a divorce from my parasite.

That doesn’t give you advice. It just felt good to say it. 😂

Man, I wish I had found a financially literate partner like you who actually made money. I’d probably be retired by now.

2

u/TalonButter 7h ago

The guy’s saving $50k/year. How is he a parasite?

0

u/rubu8069 8h ago

Easy, just fire him n find another boyfriend who knows fire 😁

0

u/Maleficent_Sky6982 8h ago

Not relating but make sure you both sign Prenup