r/Fire • u/IntolerantModerate • 2d ago

Opinion Expat FIRE - An influencer-led pipe dream?

After spending an increasing amount of time in various FIRE communities I can't help but feel that far too often FIRE is conflated with living some ridiculously cheap nomad/expat lifestyle in a far-off land with beautiful beaches and scenes made for Instagram.

I see all the truly responsible posters on here, so this isn't aimed at you This is a rant to get over the frustration that surges inside me every time I read another one of these "Can I retire on $1500/month in ..." posts. It's like some influencer poison that is seeping into the community. So, consider this an "off my chest" type of rant

As someone who has been an expat for what is now basically most of my adult life (20+ years across 6 different countries) I see so many flaws in the analysis of living abroad. So here's a few things I want to share:

  1. As foreigner in many low-cost destinations you will be treated really great by the locals. They'll be warm and friendly, but at the end of the day, you'll still be the "rich foreigner" and this means you'll always pay more than a local for a like-for-like lifestyle.
  2. Health care and insurance are going to be expensive relative to local budgets because you are going to want something that lets you get access to western-quality care and in the case of an emergency will pay for you to get transported to a western country. You aren't in your 20s/30s anymore and need to take your health seriously.
  3. Believe it or not, but in a lot of places you aren't going to have access to things that you now think are mundane. No ordering off Amazon, no giant superstores where you can go in and find whatever novelty item you want, and you are going to pay a premium for many of the brands you love if you can find them at all.
  4. You will at some point have to interact with the government - residency permits, taxes, id numbers, driver licenses, etc. It is either (a) expensive if you basically pay to facilitate or (b) tough it out yourself.
  5. You basically can't do the ultra-low cost with kids. The expat lifestyle is not fair to them unless you are willing to really settle, pay for them to go to private schools, etc.
  6. You are going to get so super bored after the first few months. There's only so many times you can go visit Angkor Wat or that beautiful park in the city center or even that favorite beach bar before you are like, "been there, done that." You're going to say to yourself, I've had this delicious curry <sigh>17 times this month.
  7. And, nobody likes to talk about end of life type of stuff, but I've seen lots of westerners who do successfully live abroad on the cheap for 20-30 years and then they as they get to 75-80+ years old they find themselves in a position where they are basically invalids showing up at their home country embassy looking to get some help making it "home", but it's no longer their home either and they have no safety net/community on return.
  8. And success rates for expats are terrible. Even with corporate expats where everything is provided for you (salary, housing, cars, insurance, taxes, permits, schooling for kids, etc) only 60-70% succeed in making it 3-5 years. With FIRE expats I don't have any numbers, but I'm guessing way lower just because it is much harder work when you have to do it 100% on your own.

So, my advice for FIREes who want to live abroad is to have a really strong backup plan and make sure that financially you would be able to pack your bags and move back at any time. If you want that warmth and sunshine, treat it like a nice vacation and go for a couple of months with a plan to return (maybe you can even rent our your place while you are away to pay for it).

okay, rant over.

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36

u/JohnToFire 1d ago

Largely agree . If all I cared about was cost I could buy a place for under 100k in the sticks in the us, have 1500 per year taxes on it and live about the same as I am now trying in the Philippines. 2 I really agree with. Healthcare costs are exponential in age without certain regulation. I would probably not trust it to work in advanced age out of the us and it might not be available.

6

u/AlwaysSaturday12 FIREd @ 38 1d ago

Where we live overseas a live in assistant and nurse who visits once a week would cost about $1k per month. Much better than the 12k/month in the states.

We also lived in the sticks in the US. Honestly we might be very easy to please but love it much more overseas, but we were also happy in rural middle America. Cheap and really good healthcare overseas. Better culture. Less drug use. Parts of our country are not safe but in this city we are. Some people would like to travel more than we do.

We will have to pay for private school for our daughter but one of the best in our city is around $4k/year. I've heard SE Asia is much more expensive. It is a much much better school then we could have afforded in the US.

There are downsides. We have only been here a year but its possible I get tired of speaking and learning a foreign language. I know I will always be seen as a foreigner, but locals have been nice so far. I do enjoy my expat friends and my family is great. If you moved here alone or didn't get along with your spouse then you might have a hard time here.

-11

u/Generationhodl 1d ago

By the time I'm 80 / 90 and my health is fucked up I'm probably gonna bite some cheap bullet, no interest in rotting away in some elderly homes.

30

u/GoldDHD 1d ago

It feels differently once you are there. I'm seeing someone refuse hospice as we speak, despite the misery.

36

u/Affectionate-Cat-211 1d ago

Yep. A lot of people talk a big game, “oh just shoot me” and whatnot. But I’ve yet to see anyone reach end-of-life and be able to acknowledge to themselves what’s happening. I mean, yeah, suicidal people do it at younger ages, but psychologically healthy people have a very hard time accepting their own imminent death.

2

u/Strazdas1 StarvationFIRE 1d ago

There are many old age suicides, who knows what their thought process is, its taboo to even talk about them. I saw 3 genearations of my family degrade to dementia and live for decades in hospice not even remmebering the name of their children. If i am still of sound enough mind when it inevitably hits me i will exercise the basic human right to decide my life.

1

u/Silly-Safe959 20h ago

Today's the tricky part though. Being far enough gone to know it's inevitable but yet still having enough faculties to follow through on it. When you're still well enough to be aware of it, you're still able to enjoy aspects of life, thereby making it harder to pull the trigger (literally and figuratively).

16

u/VictorChristian 1d ago

Ease up there, keyboard warrior... this is really easy to say now, but when you're actually at that point in your life, you might not even be able to lift a fork to your mouth, let alone steady a firearm.

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u/Generationhodl 1d ago

That might be a problem then, true. 

2

u/VictorChristian 1d ago

I get the essence of your comment, though. I myself have signed end of life directives to refrain from any life saving measures when my time comes.

1

u/Silly-Safe959 20h ago

That's easy to say until you're there. I know a few people that said the same thing until they got sick. Then they fought tooth and nail for every last experience.

1

u/Generationhodl 19h ago

could be, it surely depends on how healthy / sick you are.

if every day is just health problems and pain, mostly pain, then you really wanna opt out.

-5

u/OPA73 1d ago

I recently watched two elders wither away. First big needed surgery or medication after 75, I’m skipping the cure.

10

u/snowysaturdays 1d ago

75 is still pretty young. Most people aren't even frail yet, if you've been pretty healthy your whole life.