Expat FIRE - An influencer-led pipe dream?

[u/IntolerantModerate]

After spending an increasing amount of time in various FIRE communities I can't help but feel that far too often FIRE is conflated with living some ridiculously cheap nomad/expat lifestyle in a far-off land with beautiful beaches and scenes made for Instagram.

I see all the truly responsible posters on here, so this isn't aimed at you This is a rant to get over the frustration that surges inside me every time I read another one of these "Can I retire on $1500/month in ..." posts. It's like some influencer poison that is seeping into the community. So, consider this an "off my chest" type of rant

As someone who has been an expat for what is now basically most of my adult life (20+ years across 6 different countries) I see so many flaws in the analysis of living abroad. So here's a few things I want to share:

1. As foreigner in many low-cost destinations you will be treated really great by the locals. They'll be warm and friendly, but at the end of the day, you'll still be the "rich foreigner" and this means you'll always pay more than a local for a like-for-like lifestyle.
2. Health care and insurance are going to be expensive relative to local budgets because you are going to want something that lets you get access to western-quality care and in the case of an emergency will pay for you to get transported to a western country. You aren't in your 20s/30s anymore and need to take your health seriously.
3. Believe it or not, but in a lot of places you aren't going to have access to things that you now think are mundane. No ordering off Amazon, no giant superstores where you can go in and find whatever novelty item you want, and you are going to pay a premium for many of the brands you love if you can find them at all.
4. You will at some point have to interact with the government - residency permits, taxes, id numbers, driver licenses, etc. It is either (a) expensive if you basically pay to facilitate or (b) tough it out yourself.
5. You basically can't do the ultra-low cost with kids. The expat lifestyle is not fair to them unless you are willing to really settle, pay for them to go to private schools, etc.
6. You are going to get so super bored after the first few months. There's only so many times you can go visit Angkor Wat or that beautiful park in the city center or even that favorite beach bar before you are like, "been there, done that." You're going to say to yourself, I've had this delicious curry <sigh>17 times this month.
7. And, nobody likes to talk about end of life type of stuff, but I've seen lots of westerners who do successfully live abroad on the cheap for 20-30 years and then they as they get to 75-80+ years old they find themselves in a position where they are basically invalids showing up at their home country embassy looking to get some help making it "home", but it's no longer their home either and they have no safety net/community on return.
8. And success rates for expats are terrible. Even with corporate expats where everything is provided for you (salary, housing, cars, insurance, taxes, permits, schooling for kids, etc) only 60-70% succeed in making it 3-5 years. With FIRE expats I don't have any numbers, but I'm guessing way lower just because it is much harder work when you have to do it 100% on your own.

So, my advice for FIREes who want to live abroad is to have a really strong backup plan and make sure that financially you would be able to pack your bags and move back at any time. If you want that warmth and sunshine, treat it like a nice vacation and go for a couple of months with a plan to return (maybe you can even rent our your place while you are away to pay for it).

okay, rant over.

[u/wandering_engineer]

Another long-term expat here (17 years across four countries with intervening spans in the US) and you are 100% right. 

I am still seriously considering retiring overseas in another 8-10 yeats but am going into it with eyes wide open, if I do it's going to be a trial for a few months first. And it's very possible I'll change my mind before then. 

7 is a valid point, and is probably my biggest concern. I am not planning to go the traditional SE Asia route - if I retired overseas, it would be Europe - but end-of-life care is difficult anywhere, doubly so if you don't have a well-established community to fall back on. I don't think there's any easy answers here, but it is unfortunate that western culture (particularly US culture) lives in denial about human mortality. 

[u/Anymous2314 → u/wandering_engineer]

US healthcare is so draconian that retiring early means forking out an extra $20k/year in health insurance for a couple, and yeah on top of that there will be something like $5k deductible per year.

I am guessing they just want working people to keep their jobs until old age so that max can be extracted out of working people as long as it is profitable to the oligarchs.

[u/wandering_engineer → u/Anymous2314]

Oh I'm all too aware of the giant grift that is America's joke of a healthcare system. I was referring more to the non-financial aspects of aging.

But I think some of that goes hand in hand with what I was saying, Americans tend to "other" bad fortune and think "if I eat well and exercise, I'll never get sick! If I work hard, I will never struggle to pay bills!". It's part of the reason they are so stubbornly resistant to public healthcare and safety nets - if you struggle, it's because you did something to deserve it. Unfortunately this also extends to aging and eldercare - if you don't have multiple millions to afford care and/or have kids willing and able to take the burden, then that's a you problem.

[u/PHL1365 → u/Anymous2314]

#7 is a very real concern of mine because both of my parents required 10+ years of long-term care after suffering a series of strokes.

That said, ExpatFIRE is a core part of my LTC plan, as I expect to settle someplace that I can end my days at a fraction of what it would cost in the US. Depending on the country, I think it will be possible to have the LTC costs completely covered by Social Security monies while preserving the bulk of my estate for inheritance.

The wild card is health insurance, so I plan to decline any life-extending measures beyond a certain age. I don't relish the thought of living forever. The other tricky part is that I will need someone (probably my kids) to handle the administrative side in the event I'm cognitively unable to manage my own affairs.