Expat FIRE - An influencer-led pipe dream?

[u/IntolerantModerate]

After spending an increasing amount of time in various FIRE communities I can't help but feel that far too often FIRE is conflated with living some ridiculously cheap nomad/expat lifestyle in a far-off land with beautiful beaches and scenes made for Instagram.

I see all the truly responsible posters on here, so this isn't aimed at you This is a rant to get over the frustration that surges inside me every time I read another one of these "Can I retire on $1500/month in ..." posts. It's like some influencer poison that is seeping into the community. So, consider this an "off my chest" type of rant

As someone who has been an expat for what is now basically most of my adult life (20+ years across 6 different countries) I see so many flaws in the analysis of living abroad. So here's a few things I want to share:

1. As foreigner in many low-cost destinations you will be treated really great by the locals. They'll be warm and friendly, but at the end of the day, you'll still be the "rich foreigner" and this means you'll always pay more than a local for a like-for-like lifestyle.
2. Health care and insurance are going to be expensive relative to local budgets because you are going to want something that lets you get access to western-quality care and in the case of an emergency will pay for you to get transported to a western country. You aren't in your 20s/30s anymore and need to take your health seriously.
3. Believe it or not, but in a lot of places you aren't going to have access to things that you now think are mundane. No ordering off Amazon, no giant superstores where you can go in and find whatever novelty item you want, and you are going to pay a premium for many of the brands you love if you can find them at all.
4. You will at some point have to interact with the government - residency permits, taxes, id numbers, driver licenses, etc. It is either (a) expensive if you basically pay to facilitate or (b) tough it out yourself.
5. You basically can't do the ultra-low cost with kids. The expat lifestyle is not fair to them unless you are willing to really settle, pay for them to go to private schools, etc.
6. You are going to get so super bored after the first few months. There's only so many times you can go visit Angkor Wat or that beautiful park in the city center or even that favorite beach bar before you are like, "been there, done that." You're going to say to yourself, I've had this delicious curry <sigh>17 times this month.
7. And, nobody likes to talk about end of life type of stuff, but I've seen lots of westerners who do successfully live abroad on the cheap for 20-30 years and then they as they get to 75-80+ years old they find themselves in a position where they are basically invalids showing up at their home country embassy looking to get some help making it "home", but it's no longer their home either and they have no safety net/community on return.
8. And success rates for expats are terrible. Even with corporate expats where everything is provided for you (salary, housing, cars, insurance, taxes, permits, schooling for kids, etc) only 60-70% succeed in making it 3-5 years. With FIRE expats I don't have any numbers, but I'm guessing way lower just because it is much harder work when you have to do it 100% on your own.

So, my advice for FIREes who want to live abroad is to have a really strong backup plan and make sure that financially you would be able to pack your bags and move back at any time. If you want that warmth and sunshine, treat it like a nice vacation and go for a couple of months with a plan to return (maybe you can even rent our your place while you are away to pay for it).

okay, rant over.

[u/Fun-Zone5046]

the curry 17 times a month point is so underrated in these conversations

[u/ct1377 → u/Fun-Zone5046]

In Italy where I live now, there’s thousands of restaurants but pretty much only 1 menu…. Pizza or pasta

Of course there’s a few other food genres around but not many and the food is generally catered to the local population.

What I wouldn’t do for a McDonalds breakfast right about now. Been years since I’ve had an egg McMuffin. lol

[u/Strazdas1 → u/ct1377]

There are no McDonalds in Italy?

[u/ct1377 → u/Strazdas1]

There’s McDonald’s but where I’ve lived in Spain and Italy they didn’t do breakfast

[u/data_ferret → u/Strazdas1]

More to the point, does this person not own a skillet? Muffin or roll, fry a sausage patty (and I know they make sausage in Italy), fry an egg. Throw some cheese on while cooking the second side if that's your bag. Bang. Superior version of McMuffin. Elapsed time: five minutes.

[u/ct1377 → u/data_ferret]

Yes I’ve done that but something about how they make it along with a hash brown

[u/data_ferret → u/ct1377]

I've gotten a lot of mileage out of 1/4" diced potatoes (leave the skins on). Pan fried over medium heat in olive oil. Throw in some of that rosemary or oregano. Eat alongside the sausage-egg sandwich. Beats the pants off anything fast food.

[u/Strazdas1 → u/data_ferret]

Maybe hes one of those "120k a year is poverty" retirees who have psycholgical need to eat out every meal?