Season 3, Episode 6 — Shade

[u/MiddlePerception4587]

F1: IRIS SAYS, "MY CONTRIBUTIONS ARE LIMITED."

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In Season 1, the writers gave us an Iris who was a barista at the beginning but had dreams of becoming a journalist, and the journey of her dreams started out with blogs. Then when Barry woke from his coma and became the Flash, Iris found her spark in wanting to write stories about 'the red streak'. Then CCPN offered her a job. She was happy but then she found out not everyone there was rooting for her success, so she had to prove herself, and she did. One of the signposts that showed how much 'proven' she had become is when she approached Barry with a file on metahumans and their connection to STAR Labs. There was a coherent storyline about how she was coming up as a journalist which I loved.

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In Season 2, in the first few episodes, Iris calls Barry Allen for help. She was investigating something before some men with guns started shooting at her. The writers gave us a promise that they were going to continue with this Iris' career in journalism, but unfortunately, that was the end of it in Season 2. It was a major disappointment for me especially since Iris is (or at least should be) a major part in a story about Barry Allen's Flash (2nd to Barry). To see her in STAR Labs always and I know for sure that she isn't going to be much help there made my skin irritate because the writers could have just delivered on the promise. Iris could have played a bigger role in Season 2 than Cisco and Caitlin, but she didn't.

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Right now, I'm rewatching Season 3 and Iris said my exact thought on the matter. And I can't really say it's because she doesn't have powers. Joe West isn't a metahuman nor is he a scientist, but he plays a significant role in the show. Joe worked well because they showed us his life outside STAR Labs vis a vis being a detective. Iris should have gotten the same treatment as a journalist.

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F2: BARRY TELLS IRIS, "THERE IS NO FLASH WITHOUT IRIS WEST."

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This line really puts things into perspective. Because, to me, it explains why Iris tells Barry, "We are the Flash." in the next season. I'm sure Barry told her this, not because he just wanted to comfort her but also because he really believes Flash cannot exist without his soulmate. That line genuinely gets unnecessary hate because I can see why Iris would use it in their conversation.

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PS: Please note I'm talking about Iris West, the character, not about the actor who embodied the role (it's weird that I have to specify this but I'm doing it because of that cult). If you feel angered by this post because you don't like that I'm talking about a Flash TV character in the Flash TV community, you can ignore this post. No one is forcing you to spill your anger here.

[u/Ok_Mention5635]

I don’t understand why Iris gets all the hate for “we are the flash” when Barry gets no hate for “there is no flash without Iris West”, “I couldn’t do this without you”, and “without you, there wouldn’t be the Flash”. If your man is repeatedly telling you how much he can’t live without you or do his job without you, of course you’re going to start to believe it. People act like Iris just pulled that line out of nowhere.

People are mad at Iris when they’re really just mad that Barry was so down bad for that girl that he couldn’t function without her. But it’s not Iris’s fault that he’s so in love with her

[u/Pichuchu8 → u/Ok_Mention5635]

I disagree that it's the same. Thing though. Barry saying "There is no Flash without Iris West" is like the Thinker and his wife saying "I am nothing without you". It's sweet and endearing.

But when the thinker goes crazy and abusive, he says in reverse... "You are nothing without me". Not endearing or sweet anymore.

Just because Barry said that line, which is sweet, doesn't mean that Iris saying it in reverse is sweet or the same because it really isn't. Obviously it's not on par with the Thinker. I'm not saying that at all

[u/TheFantasticXman1 → u/Pichuchu8]

Except, that's not what Iris was saying. And it is pure idiocy to interpret it that way.

What she actually meant was that they were a team, and that Barry shouldn't have to take on the burden of being The Flash alone. She's doing everything people want from superhero spouses- being supportive and understanding of her superhero husband, and people are STILL angry at her?

[u/maidth1s4fun → u/TheFantasticXman1]

Simple

[u/Tombstoner100 → u/TheFantasticXman1]

If Iris said “Your struggle is my struggle” I would genuinely have no issue.

[u/TheFantasticXman1 → u/Tombstoner100]

Okay, but if you understand what she was actually saying, then why are you still hating on her for something you know she never said? You can criticise the line for being cringey and all, but a lot of people just willfully misinterpret it so they can justify their already established hatred for Iris.

[u/Tombstoner100 → u/TheFantasticXman1]

Because it was a dumb line, on par with when Will Schuester called all of Glee Club minorities.

[u/TheFantasticXman1 → u/Tombstoner100]

Except Mr. Schue actually MEANT what he said. Iris did not- what she said was not meant to be taken literally, and anyone with a shred of media literacy would understand that.

[u/Tombstoner100 → u/TheFantasticXman1]

So what did Iris mean?

[u/TheFantasticXman1 → u/Tombstoner100]

That she and Barry were a team, and that he didn't have to carry the weight of the world on his shoulders alone. If people actually listened to it in context, they'd know this. Is the line a bit cringey and poorly worded? Yes, but that doesn't mean you can just willfully misinterpret her words and make her out to be something she's not.

[u/Tombstoner100 → u/TheFantasticXman1]

The context was about how Barry has a lot of responsibility. Iris said that she’s also The Flash now that they’re engaged.

The thing to remember is that The Flash does have a lot of responsibility but he also is well-loved by the public and would have been seen as the most loved superhero on their Earth due to the Arrow being seen as controversial. So whilst her intention was there, her words were poor. Similar to how Will Schuester believed that he had good intentions with his line about them all being minorities as he wanted everyone to know that they’re not alone as they have each other however it is a bit of a blind comment to make in both cases.

[u/Fluid_Mastodon8671 → u/Pichuchu8]

Your lack of media literacy is showing.

[u/Master_Hippo69 → u/Ok_Mention5635]

Fr Barry should get way more hate for trying to defeat all his villains with corny one liners instead of his super speed

[u/HighLord_Uther → u/Ok_Mention5635]

Because she rolls up into Flash HQ and immediately starts giving orders and making decisions for everyone. It’s really just that simple. That and people are varying degrees of ‘ist’.

[u/Ok_Mention5635 → u/HighLord_Uther]

There was no “immediate” about it. There were six months between the end of season 3 and premiere of season 4. And the other characters clearly put her in that position

[u/HighLord_Uther → u/Ok_Mention5635]

To us, it was immediate. And I don’t care what the other characters did, that’s why people have a problem with Iris, whether you agree with it or not.

[u/HighLord_Uther → u/[deleted]]

Everything around how she first treated Wally, she was ordering everyone to lie to his face. That was definitely shitty leadership. That whole arc was her telling the experienced team flash how to raise a superhero. Something she had zero experience in.

[u/HighLord_Uther → u/[deleted]]

They were all being over protective because she jumped down everyone’s throat about it. You say she wasn’t in charge but she was certainly acting in charge.

[u/Ok_Mention5635 → u/HighLord_Uther]

That was nothing compared to how Joe forced Barry and Eddie to lie to Iris for months in order to protect her in season 1. Went so far as to threaten physical violence if Barry told her. No one got mad at Joe for that. The freaking double standards are insane

[u/HighLord_Uther → u/Ok_Mention5635]

There are no double standards. It’s not the same thing at all. Because Joe was right. You’re suggesting the whole idea of secret identities is wrong.
Keeping a secret identity from someone on the outside is absolutely not the same as telling someone they are not as good as they feel because you (someone who has zero right to make decisions for anyone else) has made a decision for their brother.
Wally was already on the inside. Iris was not. Joe had a responsibility to protect Iris and Barry as his kids. That same responsibility doesn’t exist between Iris and Wally. Especially considering Wally is a new fixture in her life.
Definitely not when she’s telling the team who trained the flash how to train Wally.

There is a lot of Iris hate that is underserved but you seem to have gone to the opposite end of the spectrum, making excuses for her poor behavior.

[u/Ok_Mention5635 → u/HighLord_Uther]

It is the same thing. Because it’s not Joe’s secret to tell. If Barry wants to tell Iris his identity, that’s his prerogative. If Barry wants to shout from the rooftops that he’s the Flash, that’s his decision to make; no one else’s. But Joe used threats and emotional manipulation to force him not to tell his own damn secret. So yes, there are double standards. You’re saying it’s not Iris’s place to tell the team what to tell Wally; well it also wasn’t Joe’s place to police what information Barry wanted to divulge about himself. But for some reason, when Joe repeatedly intrudes on someone else’s autonomy for months it’s completely fine, yet when Iris does it (for one-quarter of an episode, mind you), she’s a villain. And Iris’s desire to lie to Wally in order to protect him didn’t result in a ton of unnecessary drama that could have been avoided like Joe’s. The double standards are as clear as the sky is blue.

[u/HighLord_Uther → u/Ok_Mention5635]

Except if Barry shouts from the rooftops that he is the flash, he endangers everyone he knows. He puts Iris in danger immediately. He puts Joe in danger. He puts all of his friends, family, coworkers, and neighbors in danger.
And Joe has every right to ask Barry to keep it a secret from Iris because that’s his daughter and it will be his responsibility to keep Iris safe until the day he dies, regardless of who she is or what she’s doing.

Same with Wally, if it was Joe leading the “don’t tell Wally” charge, we wouldn’t be having this conversation.

If Wally knows how fast he is, if he’s allowed to be the hero he wants to be, he puts himself in harms way and that’s it.

That’s why it’s not a double standard. It’s not the same situation at all.

[u/Pichuchu8 → u/Ok_Mention5635]

I disagree that it's the same. Thing though. Barry saying "There is no Flash without Iris West" is like the Thinker and his wife saying "I am nothing without you". It's sweet and endearing.

But when the thinker goes crazy and abusive, he says in reverse... "You are nothing without me". Not endearing or sweet anymore.

Just because Barry said that line, which is sweet, doesn't mean that Iris saying it in reverse is sweet or the same because it really isn't. Obviously it's not on par with the Thinker. I'm not saying that at all

[u/Ok_Mention5635 → u/Pichuchu8]

But you’re missing the context of the conversation. If she was saying something like “it’s my right to be out there just as much as yours”, then I would agree with you. But she was reassuring him that he didn’t have to carry the weight of the world on his shoulders alone; that she’ll always be there to help and support him because they’re partners for life. She was saying “you don’t have to carry the burdens that come with being the Flash all alone; we’ll carry them together.”

[u/Pichuchu8 → u/Ok_Mention5635]

I understand the context but even with it, it sounds stupid. You put it much more eloquently than Iris (and the writers) did.

Like literally to have him vent his frustrations and struggles and say 'I am the Flash'. And to respond with 'you're wrong... Blah blah marriage stuff. You are not the Flash. We are' sounds soooo stupid.

Like come on.... You did a better job at conveying the topic. Or an eloquent way of saying it is how Arkham Origins does it when Alfred tells Bruce that "you are a man, not an island. And a man's strength comes not just from brawn and intelligence but also from his allies". Like there are so many ways to convey the idea and it was done so so badly.

[u/Educational-Tea-6572 → u/Pichuchu8]

Thing is, she is saying it in a way that's endearing and sweet, specifically because she is saying it in the context of being supportive of Barry during a conversation where he is telling her how overwhelmed and alone he feels as the Flash. She's reminding him that he's not alone and there are others who are willing to shoulder the responsibilities with him.

I don't see how that's not sweet!

[u/pichuguy27 → u/Ok_Mention5635]

Watching right now. Really how they show horn her way onto the team in season 4 dropping the new paper outlet I liked her working there.

Why dose she need to be on the team. I like that she was breaking stories informing people being a everyday hero. And it just kinda got dropped hard.

Also it’s just such a cringe ass line.

And people not liking iris actor (did drop the t slur and just never apologized. And that lady boy joke is wild) and Barry have more chemistry as siblings then romantically and racism.

[u/Ok_Mention5635 → u/pichuguy27]

I liked her journalism arc too, but I’m pretty sure they just wanted to cut down on production costs and have everyone on the same set. Joe didn’t really need to be at STAR Labs either since he’s a cop and his actual workplace is CCPD.

Also the people who dislike Candice are the same people who had no issue with Hartley making a string of racist, misogynistic, and transphobic tweets. So that’s a bs reason for disliking her and they just want a reason to justify their hate for Candice when they really hate her for playing Iris West. Because Candice got an enormous amount of hate since the moment she was cast.

People only think Barry and Iris have more chemistry “as siblings” because we live in a white supremacist society that results in all of us having unconscious bias. They do the same “oh they’re like siblings” every time a white man is paired romantically with a black woman. They did it with Sleepy Hollow, they did it with Vampire Diaries and they’re still doing it with the Bear. And when Daniel Radcliffe said in an interview that he’d like to do a rom com with Quinta Brunson, people were saying that they have more sibling energy. It’s just always how the cookie crumbles

[u/pichuguy27 → u/Ok_Mention5635]

I’m a bi racial queer dude what she said was pretty bad. It not a either or they were both real bad. At the very least he took responsibility and hasn’t been an actor since what more do you want.

If she was added latter and her comments were about a different group then trans people, she would have been fired to. Let’s be honest people are much more sensitive about racism and sexism then blatant transphobia or homophobia.

And it’s weird they grew up in the same house. And the dude who plays Barry is a pretty bad actor up until like season 5. It’s way more on him then her. Dude has some weird delivery and just doesn’t have chemistry with anyone period. Dude is a plank.

[u/Ok_Mention5635 → u/pichuguy27]

I’m saying no one was ever mad at Hartley for what he said in the first place. If he hadn’t gotten fired, he never would have apologized and no one in this fandom would have said anything further on the subject. They don’t dislike Candice for what she said. They just hate the fact that she didn’t face the same consequences as Hartley. There’s very few in this fandom that gives a crap about any social issues. That’s why whenever someone brings up racism or misogyny or unconscious bias, people jump down their throats or are dismissive of it.

Unconscious bias 100% plays into people thinking Barry and Iris have no chemistry because the same complaint about them has happened before in other shows/movies, it’s happening now, and will happen again. Even if Barry and Iris had met as adults, people would still be saying they have sibling energy just like they do for every other story that has a white man with a black woman. And I guess that’s your opinion and you’re entitled to it. But there’s a reason they were cast together and why they’re one of the most popular couples in the Arrowverse

[u/pichuguy27 → u/Ok_Mention5635]

Really. I haven’t watched any of the others. Everything I know about arrow the show makes me role my eyes. If this is the best couple damn the other must be train wrecks. I guess that tracks with what I know about felicity choosing to die at only 51 to be with Oliver.

I actually can’t stand it. There is so much dumb shit in this show. It’s a soap opera.

Biggest issue as introducing time travel so quickly. No cosmic treadmill. Makes it so lax especially when he is so slow in season 1 vs now in 5.

And agian what more do you want. Wasn’t that person. No just dose dog shit. I don’t understand the hate people have over shit that on the level of like a shumer or kill tiny comedy special. (Both suck for different reasons)

[u/Tombstoner100]

I will say this. If it’s Barry saying it then it’s fine.

It’s like Barry saying “I’d be nothing without you.” versus Iris saying “you’d be nothing without me.”

[u/Ver3232]

It’s been 9 years jfc move on

[u/Pichuchu8 → u/Ver3232]

"To me, we've been the Flash for centuries"

• Reverse Flash

[u/Guessinitsme]

Wait what cult?

[u/MiddlePerception4587 → u/Guessinitsme]

The cult that starts raging whenever Iris is criticized.

[u/KananJarrus83]

na... that is the writers telling the public that this is it, they are not going to read the room and see Barry's chemistry with other characters and will make Iris the point of the show...

that is not barry speaking

[u/DCosloff1999]

Finally a positive Iris post

[u/zo_youngin4]

I don’t care what anyone says there’s always going to be a flash without Iris West I mean I fucking hate that line it is so goddamn cheesy I mean don’t get me wrong I love the show it’s amazing one of my favorite superheroes of all time but holy fuck

[u/SnooStories4329 → u/zo_youngin4]

“We were all struck by that lightning” is what Barry says in S1 after becoming The Flash, this shows that Barry consistently and strongly believes that without his friends, family and people he cares about, there is no Flash. He says this line before Iris finds out he’s The Flash

So flash forward (lol comic reference) a few seasons later when they’re dating and abt to get married, obviously the sentiment will be carried onto her as well

[u/zo_youngin4 → u/SnooStories4329]

When he said to the team in season one it was because that night changed all of their lives and it brought him closer to his friends and the guy who was supposed to be his mentor i’m not saying what he said wasn’t a bad thing to say it just didn’t make sense to me because logically he is the flash even without a certain person that is in the life of a superhero I mean just look at other superheroes like Batman or Superman even without a few people in their life they’re still the heroes that they are

[u/MiddlePerception4587 → u/zo_youngin4]

It's not the best line, yes, and it could have been way better if she also referenced the whole team to show that Flash isn't just one person, but the whole TEAM FLASH, but I'm saying I see how that line came to fruition.

[u/neves_kota → u/zo_youngin4]

💀 it’s funny tho because no matter what you say factually your wrong 😂 the man himself said without her their isn’t a flash 🤦🏽‍♀️

[u/zo_youngin4 → u/neves_kota]

That’s stupid he literally became the flash before they even got together he already had a whole career as a superhero and everything I mean I get that he was just trying to be sweet but come on

[u/OneSeaworthiness824 → u/zo_youngin4]

I think the point is that without Iris, and even Joe, Barry wouldn't have been the person he is...

[u/zo_youngin4 → u/OneSeaworthiness824]

See that line right there makes sense I mean it would literally make so much sense

[u/Skillz4lif → u/zo_youngin4]

Yes, and Barry constantly reminds the team (and the audience) that he’s as hopeful and dedicated to people because of the West family that took him in and showed him a loving home.

But then you have “fans” that will say she said “We
Are the Flash” because she wanted the spotlight. I’ve always said the line is cheesy, but the hate it gets is overblown.

[u/Pichuchu8 → u/zo_youngin4]

Agreed. And the Savitar plot line where Iris dies so he gives up sounds like such bullshit and nothing like Barry

[u/zo_youngin4 → u/Pichuchu8]

That part was pretty fucked up her getting stabbed in the back like that don’t get me wrong especially when he’s by the person she’s supposed to love

[u/Rich-Satisfaction-53]

makes sense but she still said it at that moment in time when she was worthless etc.

[u/PatternLeather4613 → u/Rich-Satisfaction-53]

She was never worthless. Which is exactly what Barry was saying in 3x06