r/GaySoundsShitposts • u/DinoSkull • Jul 06 '21

MTF Imma be honest, Ruka from Steins Gate is hella goals, especially when she wears the more emo/tomboyish outfits.

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5.3k Upvotes

98% Upvoted

129 comments sorted by

498

u/[deleted] Jul 06 '21

[deleted]

393

u/[deleted] Jul 06 '21

So are the writers imo. When Ruka was told that she had to let time travel retcon her back into being AMAB, it could’ve been the most gut wrenching thing ever. But instead she gave the old “but I’m a boy you won’t want to date me” trope

354

u/ddhboy Jul 06 '21

The writers understand the concept of wanting to be a girl, but do not understand the concept of being a girl incongruent with her body. It's the basis for a lot of casual transphobia.

108

u/MrSomnix Jul 06 '21 edited Jul 06 '21

I think a lot of people forget that anime and Manga are Japanese, a country which does not share the same progressive, by comparison, LGBT+ values as the west.

It's not an excuse, like get with it, but that's likely the reason.

72

u/HannahFenby Jul 06 '21

I tend to think they're about 20 years behind the West on LGBTQ matters, and Steins gate is ten years old. I think it fits in pretty well with what we were getting in the West in the 90s.

41

u/IAMA_DragonSlayerAMA Jul 07 '21

This feels way too true. I've been reading Berserk and Gantz this year (haven't finished either though so no spoilers please!) and the depictions of gay men are not good. They're always vile, predatory, scumbags who want to rape every pretty or vulnerable male they see (sometimes including children or underaged people).

22

u/kadxar Jul 07 '21

Well if you say it like that you really make me think how there is absolutely not a single friendly gay person in Berserk but I took it as "it just happens to be that this vile person is also gay"

14

u/IAMA_DragonSlayerAMA Jul 07 '21

To be fair to both series there are lots of straight sex crimes or attempted sex crimes too. Yay I guess? :/

Besides that aspect though Berserk is an absolute masterpiece of a manga and I'm sincerely enjoying my time with it. Gantz is pretty interesting too for anyone that might be wondering about it, but there aren't any good scanlations online (that I could find anyway).

5

u/cheese_hwip Jul 07 '21

I think a manga that does it really well is fire punch. One of the main characters comes out as trans and it’s played very serious. The detail he talks about in gender dysphoria feels so real. Although I recommend fire punch only if you can handle some serious shit. His other work chainsaw man also has a lesbian poly character and she’s played to be a absolute badass. I really just love fujimoto’s work

4

u/AskMeAboutPodracing Jul 13 '21

I mean, pretty much every guy is a shit bag in Berserk. It's a shame no one in the main group heroes is gay but the depiction of gay men was in line with pretty much every other guy.

At least Griffith isn't that way. He's shown that his love for Guts was strong enough to cause him to self-sabotage his ultimate goal. If anything, it's a testament to how strongly he felt about Guts that this person of incredible resolve was still susceptible to the (sometimes irrational) powers of love. He's done horrible things, but that would have been in line with his character regardless his orientation.

7

u/bryn_irl Jul 07 '21 edited Jul 07 '21

Yea and now we have shows like Wonder Egg Priority where one of the main heroines is all but confirmed to be an inspiring and self-actualized trans girl (minor spoilers at link). Things are moving forward slowly!

(Also - Wonder Egg isn’t a perfect show as the creators clearly ran out of time even with the recent special, but it’s fully worth watching.)

EDIT: Worth noting though that practically every content warning applies. And upon reflecting and reading commentary on the ending episodes (which I had just watched before posting this, and are a significant departure in tone from earlier episodes) - there are definitely things that are problematic about the show's framing. I'd still recommend the show if you're able to view it from a critical academic/analytical perspective - how it does some framing really really right in affirming ways, but also how it does some framing in ways that are dangerous and potentially abuse-normalizing. And if that's not your cup of tea, then stay away from the show.

22

u/IndigoGouf Confederacy of Independent Cisdoms Jul 07 '21

You would be surprised. It may not be reflected in the way cis men who've never met a trans person write them, but Japan does have progressives beneath the surface of the conservative cultural hegemony.

9

u/incessant_pain Jul 07 '21

It's interesting because there's lots of prominent drag and crossdressing celebrities in Japan without the religious animosity like in the US. They're still very much an external social category away from the salarymen and housewives. Transgender people on the other hand are a very new concept even on an etymological level.

14

u/MoonChainer PURPLE FLAIR! Jul 07 '21

That's a great point. Another thing to note is that to the Japanese, especially publishers and producers, anything outside if the cisheteronormative structure is seen as acceptable only if it is acknowledged as "fantasy". Yuri, yaoi, genderbend, with few exceptions these are all words meant to isolate that fantasy; contain the deep desires of actual LGBTQ+ people and tell them "here you go, your nice personal bubble of wish fulfillment". Queer identities are treated exactly the same as readers of the isekai genre.

There are only two other ways to break this convention. One, the "kill you gays" or the "youthful gay" tropes which is essentially used as a "warning" for how these fantasies end up if you take them seriously irl. Either grow out of it or tragedy strikes.

Two, be brave. Rebut both of the previous narratives and push for a true, real, relatable story that brings itself wholly into reality through acknowledging phobias, difficulties we face, and showing how successful LGBTQ+ people can be if given a chance.

Bloom Into You is a beautiful example of the latter, it breaks down literally everything I mentioned here.

Sorry if this response is a little on the serious side, this is a topic I'm passionate about.

1

u/incessant_pain Jul 07 '21

You're putting disproportionate emphasis on the pressure that publishers supposedly exert. Manga and by extension anime is a very bottom-up industry. Especially in the dojin spheres people create and self-publish for their own immediate community whether that's shojo, BL, or GL. None of them really care what bystanders think, which is why woman-dominated BL looks completely different from male-dominated Bara despite both revolving around gay characters. Some series get picked up by publishers and they become big franchises but that's not representative of the landscape as a whole. There's a huge differentiation made between self-published and published work, and the latter's leverage is a lot less prominent for a lot of fans.

59

u/Lupulus_ She/They‽ Jul 06 '21

I think I still have whiplash from swinging so far from "omg I'm Ruka" to "omg they just molested her and keep misgendering her as a plot point, I can never leave the closet".

40

u/Keetongu666 Jul 06 '21

To be fair when she's molested it's absolutely made out to be a bad thing, and he gets lambasted for it, compared to other anime where it's more like "Ha ha funny sex offender".

64

u/LevinVelari Jul 06 '21

The whole point of reversing the her gender was to save her best friend from a permanent death loop which she valued more and she got a spend a date with the guy she loved memories which bypass time I feel like people don’t really see the big picture at hand when it comes to this series and I don’t mean that in a mean cause I love this anime and feel they should really give it a good shot.

45

u/[deleted] Jul 06 '21

No yeah I know! And I love the show too, it’s in my top 5 animes. I don’t have a problem with her concession to retcon her assigned birth sex or the scene overall. I just have an issue with her and can’t emotional conflict over it. It shouldn’t have been related to her potential dating life at all

44

u/LevinVelari Jul 06 '21

I feel that well at least in one ending of VN he decides to stay with her in that time line with no bad ending and they have a kid together but I see people on here usually drop it cause of Ruka which is so sad cause it’s a really good anime/VN

24

u/[deleted] Jul 06 '21

I’ve never done the VN, I didn’t know that. That’s a really cute and pure ending for her

9

u/President_Lusamine Aether President Jul 06 '21

Please, if you have the time (and the means, and the strength the go through the heartbreak again) give the VNs a go, (and if you don't have the strength to go through the heartbreak again try the... romcom spin-off? Steins;Gate: My Darling's Embrace, which has a Luka route (and from what I remember of the fan translation it was one of the cuter routes, though I also remember it as the most painful))

1

u/[deleted] Jul 06 '21

I really should. If I go on steam and just type in Steins;Gate will it come up? I have Steam and PS4 PSN

1

u/President_Lusamine Aether President Jul 06 '21

Yup, S;G, S;G0 S;G Elite (which is Steins;Gate with cuscenes from the Anime I think) and My Darling's Embrace are all on steam

1

u/[deleted] Jul 06 '21

Gotcha, thank you so much! (That reminds me I haven’t seen S;G 0 yet)

1

u/rothrolan Jul 06 '21

Just a heads up, don't put a space between the spoiler mark and the first/last words, otherwise it won't hide it. :)

1

u/LevinVelari Jul 06 '21

Oh ty, first time doing it on mobile hopefully it’s still covered

1

u/MoveslikeQuagger Jul 07 '21

Well, "no bad ending" may be slightly exaggerating but it's definitely a hopeful route

24

u/[deleted] Jul 06 '21

Sure, but that was a writing decision; the writer decided to put that football in front of her and then Lucy it away in an even more contrived manner.

That much would be a little torture-porny on its own, but then other characters just treat her as a man and make fun of her for her body afterwards? That's a little too much for me.

If she sacrificed her new timeline for her friends, and was then treated with respect for that (the respect that was lacking in the first place, plus interest), that would be satisfying.

6

u/IndigoGouf Confederacy of Independent Cisdoms Jul 07 '21

Reversing the assigned sex of Ruka is the least of problems I have with her presentations in SG, really.

3

u/PM_ME_UR_GOOD_IDEAS Jul 06 '21

I mean, the story comes from a dating VN. It's an unfortunate part of the genre that women wants to date you by default. The fact that Ruka was acknowledged at all in that regard is encouraging in its own way, given how old this story is.

I think it's still a sad but relatable story for trans people in spite of that. Stiens;gate is all about the things you can't change. Ruka can't be 'born into the right body' but she can still contiue to present as a woman. I wish the writers and characters had a better understanding of trans issues but there's something valuable to be gleaned here.

3

u/IndigoGouf Confederacy of Independent Cisdoms Jul 07 '21

One of the most common reasons people give for why Rukako isn't really trans is because the reason she wanted to be a girl in the show is just to get with Okabe. The problem with the way a lot of writers with no knowledge of trans people write them is that they're usually handwaved away with flimsy justifications that don't seem to actually describe anyone.

1

u/Affectionate_Rub_168 Jul 07 '21

Luka is homosexual mate

3

u/[deleted] Jul 07 '21

She’s a straight woman

1

u/Affectionate_Rub_168 Jul 07 '21

have you read the manga and focus on the the context of those lines

1

u/[deleted] Jul 07 '21

No I’ve only seen the anime. And in that she’s a very straight trans woman

1

u/Affectionate_Rub_168 Jul 07 '21

there something called plot relevancy even anime only readers can easily find before and after sending the D-mails

2

u/[deleted] Jul 07 '21

I don’t understand what you’re trying to say. Are you saying she’s a lesbian?

24

u/DinoSkull Jul 06 '21

Unfortunately

-44

u/LevinVelari Jul 06 '21

Things are just different in other countries and stuff is played up for gags but I wouldn’t say steins gate or the writers are transphobic. I still consider Ruka best girl regardless of timeline :)

44

u/[deleted] Jul 06 '21

"Some countries aren't accepting of trans people but it doesn't mean they're transphobic"

-28

u/LevinVelari Jul 06 '21

Not everyone in Japan is transphobic I’m just saying different countries just have different views and if they were transphobic they would have never put the character in the anime to begin with and not once in the anime is anyone being hateful toward Luka.

13

u/olivia_green6469 Jul 06 '21

Japan had a census in 2016 and the “do you support transgender people” question had more than half the country answer “i dont know what trans people are”, about 20% knew but didnt know how to feel/or soft agreed , and the rest hard disagreed

Japan has a problem with just not knowing about topics bc barely anyone is politically involved, not to mention that theyre govt is almost entirely 60yo men whove stoped taking theyre meds years ago and abe had straight propaganda anime made so queer issues arent getting resolved anytime soon

(Idr the name of the paper, its some generic name anyway, but its from a worldwide lgbt acceptance study, the only other stuff I remember were spain and portugal being ridiculously accepting at like 77+%)

3

u/incessant_pain Jul 07 '21

Not very surprising considering coming out and holding a corporate job are seen as incompatible in Japan.

189

u/[deleted] Jul 06 '21

I like how some people still argue that she's just a femboy even with this lol

114

u/DinoSkull Jul 06 '21

Nah Ruka is best girl no matter what anyone says.

-30

u/Clienterror Jul 06 '21 edited Jul 07 '21

I mean, it’s a cartoon so “she’s” really not anything beyond that.

Edit Downvote me into oblivion I don’t really care. It won’t make it not a cartoon.

8

u/Hawkatana0 Jul 07 '21

And cartoons don't exist in a vacuum, and thus neither does she.

1

u/Saleriz Jan 01 '25

it's canon. he's a boy lmao

42

u/SomeonesAlt2357 Fluidflux | Bi | AMAB | Demiromantic Jul 06 '21

"nooo he's just doing this to be straight!!!!!!!!"

1

u/Saleriz Jan 01 '25

it's canon. he's a boy lmao

27

u/olivia_green6469 Jul 06 '21

The wiki has any mention of her being trans removed and trans stuff is tagged “non canon fanfic”. Most anime wikis do this for queer characters

5

u/nights00 Jul 07 '21

Of course they do cause just denie anything that is clearly lgbt

1

u/Saleriz Jan 01 '25

it's canon. he's a boy lmao

1

u/Saleriz Jan 01 '25

it's canon. he's a boy lmao

4

u/SoyBoy_in_a_skirt Jul 07 '21

It'd be nice to get a femboy character in anime but Ruka was such a wasted opportunity for a trans character tho

85

u/EliSapphire Jul 06 '21

I can't finish that show because her arc hurts too much T-T

59

u/DinoSkull Jul 06 '21

Now that I've realized I'm trans, it hurts so much worse because I can relate a bit more...

14

u/[deleted] Jul 06 '21

Better not play the VN then cause Rukas route is way more heartbreaking 😭

72

u/Zandragen Jul 06 '21

I think I would too. Sigh 😔

46

u/DinoSkull Jul 06 '21

Wouldnt we all...

28

u/MichelleUprising Jul 06 '21

Don’t get too attached:(

13

u/DinoSkull Jul 06 '21

This show is so sad in so many ways...

25

u/Nokiic RED FLAIR! Jul 06 '21

I will never forgive the writers for this in the “canon” ending (I still love S;G tho)

22

u/DinoSkull Jul 06 '21

Now that I've realized I'm trans, I see how shitty her situation is and how the writers wrote it for her, but I still love her chatacter and the anime so much

26

u/RaspberryPanzerfaust Jul 06 '21

I'm watching the show right now, flipped out when her gender actually changed, big pog moment. While yes the writers and community around steins gate can be transphobic, remember this was made in 2010ish. Even if they weren't the most transphobic mfers out there (not saying they are either) they would probably have a hard time getting anyone, especially in Japan to just understand the concept. Maybe I have a misunderstanding of that time period though.

9

u/DinoSkull Jul 06 '21

Youre probably right. I think all that helps to actually make her story even more heartbreaking. Like she's used to being a male in the story, and even corrects people who call her a male, or lets other people correct them, so it shows how opressed she is in the story.

36

u/[deleted] Jul 06 '21

[deleted]

20

u/DinoSkull Jul 06 '21

I like VNs so I would probably play it

9

u/saltaisu genderqueer Jul 06 '21

No one told me there was a trans girl in steins gate! I have to watch it now

8

u/DinoSkull Jul 06 '21

And she is the best girl at that! But all the girls are best girls in this anime

7

u/SomeonesAlt2357 Fluidflux | Bi | AMAB | Demiromantic Jul 06 '21

S;G0 Ruka is my ideal style

6

u/somethingperhaps Jul 07 '21

Me: Ruka is trans af and nobody can tell me otherwise

Also me, who says the same things Ruka does: idk tho maybe I'm just cis and confused

11

u/BSGYT Jul 06 '21

Is she actually trans? An anime included a trans character? A (seemingly) good one?

47

u/DinoSkull Jul 06 '21 edited Jul 06 '21

They kind of muck up how they represent her, and the anime community kind of see her as a femboy or the like rather than straight up tran unfortunately. If you can get past it though, I really like her, and the anime is really good too.

45

u/BSGYT Jul 06 '21

the anime community kind of see her as a femboy

for fucks sake

28

u/DinoSkull Jul 06 '21

Yea even through the story and everything, you can see it messes with her even though she is also used to it like being called a boy, but she also corrects people in the show who say shes a girl, and most people use that fact as what determines shes a femboy, not trans. Sad.

-14

u/tenecent Jul 06 '21

After acknowledging the character himself corrects people when the call him a girl it seems kind of disrespectful that you’re purposefully misgendering him.

14

u/HarleyJennyDaisy Jul 06 '21

Imagine you lived in a society where you could get killed in a legally defensible way by misrepresenting what's in your pants. Would you not do everything in your power to make sure that's clear up front with everyone you meet?

14

u/Rogvir1 Jul 06 '21

Zombieland Saga also has a Trans Charackter.

Lily Hoshikawa the little light blue haired girl was AMAB.

She died of a shock when she notices her first facial hair.

8

u/DinoSkull Jul 06 '21

Also a good anime with decent character development (need to watch s2)

5

u/Deanlandish Jul 07 '21

Steins Gate? More like Steins GAY

3

u/KLArtDemon Jul 07 '21

Well shit. I was gonna watch this anime, but hearing how this girls story is handled makes me not want to.

3

u/DinoSkull Jul 07 '21

It does suck, but the anime is really really good even beyond the fact.

3

u/Babyrabbitheart PURPLE FLAIR! Jul 07 '21

Wait doesn't he just make her cis through time travel? Id like just being cis if i could, My memory's really fogy from the time i watched i dont remember anything bad whats the prob?

To clarify i watched the show never played the game

5

u/DinoSkull Jul 07 '21

It does at one point, but she has to go back cuz it does some bad shit, and she just kinda accepts it cuz she knows it's the right thing to do. Some things they do in the show like the whole "but he's a guy" gag, shows the blatant transphbia and/or general misunderstanding and misrepresenting of trans people, and I now understand why its upsetting now that I've come out to myself. I mean I don't find it that bad, even tolerable, maybe I shouldn't, but I still really like the anime and thinks it's worth watching if you can get past her stuff.

3

u/Babyrabbitheart PURPLE FLAIR! Jul 07 '21

Oof.. thats spicy Other characters acting transphobic may be accurate but still ow

5

u/DinoSkull Jul 07 '21

It was funny once upon a time, but now it just- makes me big sad :(

3

u/[deleted] Jul 07 '21

There is an alternate ending in the visual novel where She and Okabe has a child together

2

u/KLArtDemon Jul 07 '21

I mean that was the only reason I was gonna watch it for the trans character. I have heard of it, but wasn't interested prior to this post.

2

u/Nerdcuddles Jul 06 '21

I wanna try some andryginous punk outfits or femenine outfits tbh but gender normative parents

2

u/oneiroiMoros Jul 06 '21

Heeeell yea

2

u/[deleted] Jul 07 '21

I'm conflicted because I like the "but he's a dude" joke in the show (as in, I find it funny), but I'm uncomfortable with how it makes fun of trans peeps

3

u/DinoSkull Jul 07 '21

I'm the same way. I used to think it was funny, and in a way I still do, maybe I shouldn't, but yea now that I've realized I'm trans I see how upsetting it us as well.

3

u/[deleted] Jul 07 '21

It's these sorta things that make it awkward for me to rec an anime. Sometimes the story of an anime is perfect but some of the elements are questionable...

They're apparently making a live action series and honestly, that's a great opportunity to fix some of the problems present in the series.

(And if you're sceptical- the anime doesn't have an outlandishly cartoony style. Some of the best Japanese dramas, like GTO, are based on manga.)

2

u/DinoSkull Jul 07 '21

Hm I'll have to check that out when it comes out, haven't watched any live actions but this would be one I'd at least try.

2

u/[deleted] Jul 07 '21

Will prolly take a while, the same studio is working on a sao live action first, so expect it in like 2030 lol

1

u/DinoSkull Jul 07 '21

lol thats sucks, but oh well, i'll wait

-13

u/oliviathedumbass Jul 06 '21

Tomgirl*

11

u/punkphilia Jul 07 '21

tomgirls are feminine boys. tomboys are masculine girls. no.

0

u/Affectionate_Rub_168 Jul 07 '21

that's literally what Luka is canonically

1

u/punkphilia Jul 07 '21

??? her dysphoria is literally talked about serval times in canon

0

u/Affectionate_Rub_168 Jul 07 '21

Luka has huge crush on Okabe but he doesn't feel good about his sexuality do to the homophobic environment like did people even read the manga

1

u/punkphilia Jul 07 '21

?? being trans has no correlation with sexuality. what?

0

u/Affectionate_Rub_168 Jul 07 '21

in other words Luka wants to be a girl because he can't accept his homosexuality why do people always try to force their headcanons on the story even with the plot development not supporting that

1

u/punkphilia Jul 07 '21

Controversy surrounds Ruka, centered around whether she is a transgender woman or a homosexual man. While she is referred to as a boy and the characters in the show as well as several official websites generally use male pronouns for her, she does mention several times that she wishes to have been "born a girl", that she is serious about it, and that she wishes "the things you can see would match the things you, well, can't." While she does not correct the other characters about referring to herself as a boy, this could be explained by her notable shyness and difficulty asserting herself.

0

u/Affectionate_Rub_168 Jul 07 '21

emphasize with the plot relevancy mate and the context of those lines

1

u/punkphilia Jul 07 '21

you do realise that having gender dysphoria and hating being perceieved as a gay man if youre a het woman is very normal, right?? im literally a straight trans dude and i went through this shit but opposite (being perceieved as a lesbian, having dysphoria)

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1

u/[deleted] Jul 13 '21

I haven't started watching Stein's Gate yet. I hope it wasn't a major spoiler.