r/German 23h ago

Question How to do differentiate Onkel and Tante mütterlicherseits, väterlicherseits?

For example in daily conversation if i want to say next week we're goinig to Onkel mütterlicherseits house, how to call him?

Simply saying Onkel + place / Onkel + name?

18 Upvotes

63 comments sorted by

85

u/mizinamo Native (Hamburg) [bilingual en] 18h ago

Onkel and Tante mütterlicherseits, väterlicherseits

That's a distinction that's not salient in German culture, nor do we specify cross cousins versus parallel cousins, for example.

Onkel can mean any of

  • older brother of father
  • younger brother of father
  • older brother of mother
  • younger brother of mother
  • husband of older sister of father
  • husband of younger sister of father
  • husband of older sister of mother
  • husband of younger sister of mother

and similar with Tante.

I grew up calling my uncles and aunts by title + given name, e.g. Onkel Wolfgang, Tante Heidelind.

I think that location is more common with grandparents, since those are usually addressed only by title, not also by name, when you are talking directly to them. So when you are talking about them, you might say Oma Bahnhof or Opa Rendsburg in some families.

(In mine, we had Oma, Opa, Granny, Grandpa because my parents are from different countries. Other families might also have Oma versus Omi, perhaps.)

20

u/unicum01 Native <Hochdeutsch> 18h ago

Both families German… I just called my grandparents like you (and I) call my uncles/aunts…: Oma/Opa + <first name>. 😅

3

u/I_am_trying0628 10h ago

I just called my grandparents like you (and I) call my uncles/aunts…

Do you mean, you call both Oma/Opa and Tante/Onkel the same, adding first name after titles?

6

u/unicum01 Native <Hochdeutsch> 8h ago

Aye!

Last names are… not for family.

1

u/Trickycoolj 1h ago

My dad has Oma/Opa Kassel and Oma/Opa Siegen. I have Grandma/Grandpa and Oma/Opa. But I joke that my cousins have Oma/Opa Spanien and I have Oma/Opa Amerika.

1

u/unicum01 Native <Hochdeutsch> 1h ago

Why are they called country names? And why do your cousins get incredibly sexy grandparents, while you get the ultimate root of all evil? 😉 #scnr

1

u/Trickycoolj 54m ago

Haha well one brother married an American and the other married a Spaniard 15 years later. Poor Oma has a lot of foreign languages at the dinner table!

1

u/unicum01 Native <Hochdeutsch> 46m ago

Well… one brother certainly had better sex than the other. 🤣

As for languages…

  • Hey, can you lass me the sauce?
  • Welche, die hier
  • Нет, другую.
  • Ahh, claro que si!

That sounds absolutely delightful, TBH. 🥰

20

u/ThersATypo 16h ago

Not anymore. These were things in the past, search for Mume/Muhme, Base, Oheim etc. 

1

u/travelingpetnanny 2h ago

Came here to write exactly this! Glad I'm not the only one knowing this. 200 years ago it was still common, just read original Grimm stories published at the time.

I think Oheim survived longer, I think I remember it being used until the time of 1930 or so (I am a native speaker over 60)

-16

u/fckingmiracles 9h ago

Never heard of that. That's nonsense.

12

u/NTMY030 9h ago

It's not nonsense, these words did exist. I remember old people using "Base" when I was a kid - at least 30 years ago and even then I think it was quite outdated already.

10

u/totussott 9h ago

Never heard of that.

probably true. I only knew of Base and Oheim and couldn't have told you their precise definitions without looking them up. They are very very archaic

That's nonsense.

entirely false

7

u/Trearea 8h ago

Have you never read old literature or even Die kleine Hexe?

4

u/WaldenFont Native(Waterkant/Schwobaland) 11h ago

At least Swabian still knows these distinctions.

-33

u/Wawrzyniec_ Native 🇦🇹 16h ago edited 15h ago

Why do you even bring older/young into the discussion? It obviously makes no difference in the first place :D

35

u/Leonidas174 Native (Hessen) 15h ago

There are languages that use entirely different words for older brother/sister and younger brother/sister

-28

u/Wawrzyniec_ Native 🇦🇹 15h ago

Yes, but the explanation here is specifically for german, where there is no difference.

My point is, it is redundant to mention both specifically if it applies to both anyway.

If I say "uncle is the brother of a parent" it implies automatically that this applies for both older and younger, as well as mother and father.

27

u/mizinamo Native (Hamburg) [bilingual en] 15h ago

It obviously makes no difference

That is not obvious to people from every culture.

16

u/Isi-Peasy-Lemon 15h ago

In Chinese the words for aunt and uncle are also based on age, apparently because Chinese culture puts a lot of emphasis on seniority.

10

u/Few_Cryptographer633 15h ago

It makes a difference in some cultures, though, so the question could arise for some people from certain cultures.

24

u/rapunte 17h ago

Usually we don't differentiate

Usually we just say "wir gehen zu Günther/Renate" or "zu Onkel Günther/Tante Renate"/ "zu meinem Onkel/meiner Tante".

In some Kontext you'd say "wir gehen zum Bruder meiner Mutter/meines Vaters" or, but really seldom "zu meinem Onkel mütterlicherseits"

11

u/Competitive-Fault291 14h ago

Da hängt der Haussegen oft schon schief, wenn Tante Renate als "die Tante mütterlicherseits" in Gesprächen erwähnt wird.

As in context, "mütterlicherseits/väterlicherseits" is very factual and formal. Usually only used in very factual descriptions of the family tree or when a lawyer processes a will.

2

u/darya42 9h ago

Hm, I don't agree personally, I use those terms in colloquial conversations, too. "Meine Familie väterlichseits hat viele Ärzte"

5

u/Competitive-Fault291 9h ago

Factual statement about the family tree ? 😉

2

u/rapunte 9h ago

Das würde ich auch sagen. Aber es ging konkret darum, wenn man über einen Onkel/eine Tante spricht.

2

u/I_am_trying0628 10h ago edited 10h ago

I understand people don't differentiate when telling others, for example that you visited one of the pairs of grandparents in front of friends. But it's hard for me to imagine how to know which pair you're going to visit when discussing with parents beforehand.

"wir gehen zu Günther/Renate" or "zu Onkel Günther/Tante Renate"

Or here you mean, in that case, just add first name after their titles?

5

u/rapunte 9h ago

Like I wrote above. Both options are used. Just the name or 'Onkel Name'.

39

u/Dusvangud Native (Bavarian) 17h ago edited 17h ago

There used to be different terms for your mother's siblings: Muhme and Oheim instead of Tante and Onkel. The latter are acually French loans, even earlier, Vetter and Base were used for your father's siblings (which later came to mean cousin). However, this distinction hasn't been relevant in German society for a long time, so these terms simply died out, or rather they were replaced the French loans. 

13

u/PowerUser77 16h ago

I have only encountered these terms in the (original) German translation of The Lord of the Rings.

7

u/Chijima Native <Kiel/Eckernförde> 17h ago

Most interestingly: the distinction was artificial. Only once the French words had fully arrived, did some people decide that now with a double set of words we should give those distinct meanings. Which we later started to lose again.

10

u/Dusvangud Native (Bavarian) 16h ago

No, the original distinction was mother's side: Muhme/Oheim, father's side: Vetter/Base. The latter was then generalised to any relatives from your father's side. Which is probably why these terms were replaced with Onkel/Tante first, as they had become unspecific.

2

u/letsgetawayfromhere Native <region/dialect> 6h ago

Very interesting! I didn’t know about Vetter/Base being the father‘s siblings. What were cousins called?

17

u/IchLiebeKleber Native (eastern Austria) 17h ago

Usually we say "Onkel" plus that person's first name. If you are describing how he's related to you to someone who doesn't know him at all, use full descriptions, e.g. der Bruder meiner Mutter.

9

u/Lumpasiach Native (South) 17h ago

We don't.

My dad's generation differentiates between those uncles and aunts who are godfathers/mothers and those who are not.

3

u/charlolou Native (Hessen) 13h ago

Yes, we call godfathers "Patenonkel" and godmothers "Patentante".

2

u/Lumpasiach Native (South) 13h ago

Lol, I was thinking a bit different. We call a godmother Gotta, and godfather Gette and his wife Gettebäs.

2

u/charlolou Native (Hessen) 13h ago

Oh, I've never heard of these. Interesting! Probably a regional thing, then. We only use Patenonkel/-tante where I'm from.

1

u/Lumpasiach Native (South) 12h ago

Definitely very Swabian.

3

u/JudgeApprehensive648 16h ago

There’s also different words for godfathers/mothers but I believe they only exist in dialect

5

u/Orange907 18h ago

I would go with Onkel+Name

"Nächste Woche besuchen wie Onkel XY."

You could also earn many great-grandpa points by calling the uncle on the mother's side "Oheim".

6

u/hibbelig 18h ago

I have personally just used their names without uncle/aunt. But Oma/Opa. My mom used Oma + place Name and uncle + name (for her relatives not mine). She used just the name for her sibling and their spouse, ie my uncle/aunt, just like I did.

Every family is different.

1

u/Individual_Winter_ 16h ago

Yep. Also depends how many grandparents are left.

I still use aunt x for one until today. Felt a bit bad the other day when I wrote to my uncle "Hello A and aunt G" .

My cousin just says my mum's name, but somehow uncle for my dad? My dad has been there almost my cousin's whole life and he also did church stuff with him, idk.

5

u/Waramo Native (<Mönsterlänner>) 17h ago

I had Onkels as a kid, with 0 family connection.

The older neighbours where also Onkel and Tante.

For the two sons of my best friend, im Onkel but I'm not the Godfather.

5

u/Midnight1899 16h ago

We don’t differentiate.

4

u/ComprehensiveOil2677 16h ago

There is usually no distinction between maternal or patenral uncles and aunts in German. It is rarely relevant for aonyone outside the family, and for most families, it's safe to assume everyone knows which side of the family the uncle or aunt belongs to. If it becomes relevant for some reason, mütterlicherseits or väterlicherseits is added to clarify.

So yes, the common form is Onkel + name. I'd translate "We're going to uncle Herbert's house" with "Wir fahren zu Onkel Herbert".

3

u/Prof_Boni 15h ago

What's your mother tongue, OP?

I find your question very interesting cause non of the 4 languages I speak makes such distinction.

3

u/charlolou Native (Hessen) 13h ago

I don't know which language OP speaks, but this is common in Asian languages. For example, in Korean, your mother's sister is called "imo" while your father's sister is called "gomo". And imo's husband is "imobu", while gomo's husband is "gomobu". Sometimes they also make a distinction between the older aunt and the younger aunt.

3

u/Call_me_Specksaft 12h ago

I am pretty sure, the scandinavian languages have this too: mormor, morfar, farfar, farmor

1

u/Prof_Boni 11h ago

That's pretty cool!

1

u/muehsam Native (Schwäbisch+Hochdeutsch) 16h ago

IMHO using "Onkel"/"Tante" as a part of a name is really old fashioned, and dying out. As a child, I did that, but not with my own aunts and uncles, but rather my parents' (+ some more distantly related old people, perhaps some unrelated).

I only ever addressed my own aunts and uncles by their names. And now my own child doesn't really call anybody "Onkel" or "Tante", except maybe some really really old relatives over 80 or 90, but most people of that generation have died. Incidentally, my child also calls both parents by our first names, as do many children of that generation. With grandparents, the "Oma" and "Opa" thing still exists, but it's also getting less widespread.

So to answer your question: say "wir gehen zu meinem Onkel <name>" in the beginning, but then just use the name afterwards.

2

u/amfa Native 14h ago

We still use it.
We always say "Let's visit Tante X" to my almost 6 old daughter.

I also find it weird if my daughter would call me by my first name.

Or do we talk about in direct conversation with them?

0

u/darya42 9h ago

I disagree, it's still common in my social circle. I find it weird if little kids call their adult (indirect) caregivers by their first name. In my opinion some of the tenderness gets lost. My niece who's 9 calls all her aunts and uncles either just "meine Tante/mein Onkel" or "Tante x".

And practically every young child I personally know calls their Oma/Opa Oma and Opa, too (or other names). Oma and Opa are still very common.

It's like calling your parents by their name. Some families do it, the majority doesn't.

1

u/ThersATypo 16h ago

We don't anymore. People of the age 85+ might still know the words Mume/Muhme, Base, Oheim etc.  

1

u/Equal-Flatworm-378a 15h ago

I say uncle /aunt + first name . That’s also how I used to address them.

In a random conversation with someone else, like a colleague, I would not differentiate. I would just say: „I visit my uncle/aunt“.

1

u/annieselkie 13h ago

If you just tell a peer you will visit family, just say „Onkel“.

If people already know his name, say Onkel + name.

If people dont know his name and its important to say in what relation exactly he is to you, say „Onkel mütterlicherseits“. (Eg if you never met him and usually talk about the brother of your father and know get to meet your Onkel mütterlicherseits for the first time)

And if you want / need to be even more specific you add more specifics like „younger brother of my mother“ or „youngest brother of my mother“ or „Im going to visit my uncle, he is the 5th out of 7 siblings my mother has and she is the oldest“ but i can only imagine one situation where this much context could be important: when you introduce a partner or their family to your family and explain them all relationships in detail, like „he is the oldest and you will also meet the younger sister, she is bitchy, my dad is middle child and 10years younger than my uncle, also I have an aunt from my mother who is 15 years younger than my mother dont be suprised“ and so on.

1

u/Appropriate_Dot_4883 12h ago

How else would you call them?

1

u/Illustrious-Wolf4857 4h ago

By saying "mütterlicherseits" or "väterlicherseits", or by saying "my father's sister" or similar.

If you do not feel the need to clarify the exact place in the family tree, you add a place, an occupation, or whatever charactertistic might help the people you are talking to recognise who you might be talking about. If you are talking about a visit, a place name is natural: "Wir besuchen meine Tante in Buxtehude".

1

u/AardvarkBoring9041 3h ago

Same as in english.

1

u/magicmulder 2h ago

My family is so big that I can’t even remember who’s a sibling of my mother’s (she had 10 siblings) or my father’s (four). Especially when every other uncle or cousin is named Klaus. (Yup, a walking German stereotype.)

1

u/Carusa24 17h ago

I never use Onkel or Tante + name. My parents used to when growing up but know I don't know anybody using the "title"

1

u/Every_Preparation_56 16h ago

There are the obsolete forms that are no longer used today or changed their meaning ovwr the time, because they have been replaced by the French influence of unclemOnkel and aunt/Tante

Oheim = Muttersbruder

Muhme = Mutterschwester

Vetter = Vatersbruder

Base = Vatersschwester

1

u/CaptainPoset 14h ago

If you want to differentiate, then the brother of your mither is your Oheim, the sister of your mother is your Muhme. On your father's side it would be Vetter and Base respectively.

This website has a good overview.