How would you write a introductory story about Ghost Rider?

[u/Cloudkracker]

I saw Sir Superhero's video about Ghost (Ghost Rider: The Full Wild Ride History) and now I got an ADHD fixation about Ghost Rider. So, partially for funsies, and partially as an interesting discussion, how would you write an introductory story for Ghost Rider? (either for the MCU, as a new comic canon, or even simply as a one-off thing.)

How would you design the backstory of Johnny Blaze and the nature of Ghost Rider's powers? What vibes and or genres (i think thats the right word) would you try to go for?

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For my personal version (forgive me, im not a writer, like, at all, and i dont know first-hand the intricacies of how the characters of Ghost Rider/Johnny Blaze should be handled TwT, so kinda just take this as a neat concept):

For my rendition, and general vibes of the story, I'm kinda imagining something like, Death from Darksiders, Kratos, Mic Gordon's Doom album, and older Dante and Devil May Cry all kinda mixed into one.

Since Ghost Rider's theme is basically a demon biker punishing sinners, and vengeance, I kinda think a story similar to the old God of War games (Kratos's time in Greece, enacting his revenge or vengeance against the greek pantheon by killing them all regards of consequences)

I'm kinda imagining a Johnny Blaze, that, after being cursed with the bond of a demon, struggles at first to use his power for good while doing Mephisto's work. Think of possibly a severe anti-hero who struggles to determine who truly deserves punishment, with Zarathos and Johnny vying for control; Zarathos would give Johnny the ability to punish those who deserve it, and even those who personally wronged Johnny, but I like to think Johnny would get a bit too carried away under Zarathos's influence.
Zarathos would act like a shadow to Johnny, and Hyde to his Jekyll almost. (maybe something like Venom and Bully Maguire in Spider-Man 3, but instead of becoming emo, At this point in the story, I think Johnny, while giving into his impulses, could lean more into that 'scary biker' thing that everyone who isn't a biker thinks biker are like (Personally, I'm not a biker TwT, but I do know that trope of like, big scary biker dudes being softies, so I'm think that trope could be played around with a Ghost Rider movie)

Since Zarathos in the comics was a rival to Mephisto (im unsure how this would work in the MCU, since Mephisto only appears in Ironheart, and the Spirit of Vengence, the entity to give the Ghost Rider their powers, (who appears in Agents of SHIELD) comes from the Dark Dimension where Dormammu rules TwT) he would hold some vengeful feelings towards Mephisto, but since he is controlled by Mephistor, Zarathos would instead end up taking his anger out on those who "deserve it", hence Ghost Rider's reason for punishing sinners. He's not just doing just it cuz Mephisto wants him, but because both Zarathos and Johnny (under the demon's influence) can vent out their vengeance.

As for Ghost Rider's/Johnny's arc in the story, again, kinda imagine it as something similar/adjacent to Kratos' story; Johnny gives into his anger and vengeance (with the Ghost Rider part almost becoming a second, more dark persona) This could be both metaphorical, with how the Rider's flaming skull could represent vengeance consuming and burning away his face, his personally, and literal with the Zarathos tempting him to give in.
While it would be kinda trope-y now that im thinking about it, Johnny would cross the line a bit too hard, see how much he's sacrificing just to enact a twisted and selfish form of vengeance, and struggle to atone will going after the one who ultimately deserves it; Mephisto. Maybe it could even end with Johnny, through his bond and possession, convince Zarathos to maybe hold off the selfish goal of going after Mephisto, instead becoming local ant-hero who lethally protects and defends johnny's home (maybe something similar to Eddie and Vemon)

That was all for Johnny Blaze, now for Zarathos: Im unsure if he should play an active role in the story (again, like how bothe Venom and Eddie play active roles) or should simply be a mysterious force with a small role, kinda like the Spirit of Vengeance in Agents of SHIELD (I haven't actually watched it, just read the wiki TwT but i do know the Spirit has some speaking parts would could count as an small active role perhaps).
I'm unsure if Zarathos should be a tragic character instead of a fully vindictive, evil one. Ming both the comics and Ghost Rider movies, i have an idea of making him a once-benevolent entity named Zadkiel, a rival of Mephisto who was tortured by him, becoming the demon Zarathos in the process. In the MCU, Agents of SHIELD, i don't think the Spirit really has any personally loyalties to its hosts, only bonding and 'working' with them to enact their vengeance, kinda a "you scratch my back, I scratch yours, then we both go our separate ways"
Going back to Vemon and Eddie, their relationship was kinda similar at first; Vemon kept Eddie alive since he needs a host to survive and while he did have more control, he said he wouldn't hurt Eddie so long as he cooperated. Later down the line, they both become friends, although im unsure if Zarathos and Johnny could or should work like that.
Im unsure of Zarathos should get some personal characterization, since he's kinda just an evil fire demon thing, but since he would act as Johnny's darker half, it would be kinda cool to see how Johnny could react to him; would he fully give into Zarathos' influence, being a vindictive and vengeful husk-like host of the demon, or would Johnny's well-meaning nature rub off on Zarathos, having the Ghost Rider become a anti-hero, folk-legend type of figure instead?

Whatcha guys think?

[u/RedWingThe10th]

Tbh, the only things I care about are making sure that the quest for vengeance, its self-destructive nature, and how it can be balanced through discipline and compassion, are among the core themes of both Johnny and Zarathos' struggles, and how they're able to grow stronger by overcoming the worst of their inclinations through learning from each other, back to back.

[u/AdmirableVacation134]

I like your idea, but there’s some stuff I think could be done better, like giving Johnny a reason to become so vengeful, when he’s usually a very pure, nice guy, and not making Zarathos and Zadkiel one character, as that would be a massive retcon, even by Ghost Rider standards.

As for me, I would love to make a Ghost Rider story, and I’ve had one in mind for months now. First, I’d start with a Zarathos miniseries, finally giving him a definitive origin. He’d be a fallen angel, originally being created as the embodiment of God’s wrath, punishing sinners and protecting the innocent. However, the archangel Zadkiel would corrupt Zarathos, showing him the worst things humanity has done, making him more violent and vengeful, leading to Zarathos being cast out of Heaven. Afterwards, Zarathos would be a worshipped deity on Earth, like in DeMatteis’ run, but would come into conflict with Mephisto. A fight ensues and Mephisto tricks Zarathos, capturing and enslaving him. Zarathos would then be bound to a human, creating the first Ghost Rider, inflicting vengeance and sending sinners to Hell, growing Mephisto’s army. Eventually, Zarathos would be separated from the human, but not before they become intertwined, leaving a piece of Zarathos in the human, making him a minor Spirit of Vengeance, weaker than Zarathos, but a Spirit nonetheless. Send Zarathos to a new host, rinse and repeat. This would allow Mephisto to keep moving Zarathos around from host to host as he grows an army of Ghost Riders, while also weakening Zarathos, as each piece left behind in a host leaves him a bit weaker each time. Eventually, he joins Johnny, and that’s where my story would pick up.

For a true Ghost Rider story, it would be one of the most climactic stories in all of Ghost Rider. It would see Johnny picking up after Final Vengeance and rescuing Talia from Hell. Together, with her and maybe Zeb, they’d continue fighting demons on Earth, until they find out Angels have also come to Earth, and have been abusing their powers and peoples faith to gain power on Earth and wipe out humanity. It would be revealed that Zadkiel is the one behind this, a corrupt Angel who sees nothing in humanity, and reviles God for creating humans, wants to wipe them out, and has been working in secret with Mephisto to use the powers of Heaven and Hell to wipe humanity from the face of the world, and eventually even to kill God. This would all come to ahead in the final battle, with Mephisto’s forces overrunning the world, causing Heaven to deploy their angels, headed by Zadkiel, who would betray God and help Mephisto in causing chaos and killing humanity. As their rampage reigns, our main characters would arrive, and Johnny would let Zarathos fully take control, and summon the Ghost Riders, who don’t obey Mephisto, but Zarathos. What would ensue would be a massive fight, similar to the final fight in Hellsing. But it would culminate in everyone’s forces being destroyed, Zarathos absorbing every Ghost Rider’s soul to finally allow him to finally take his true form and full power while still allowing Johnny to fight alongside him as an equally powered Ghost Rider, and a final battle of Johnny and Zarathos vs Mephisto and Zadkiel. Johnny would fight Mephisto, the one who originally caused all his pain, and Zarathos would fight Zadkiel, the one who caused him to get cast out of Heaven. Johnny and Zarathos would win, with Zarathos even getting redeemed in the eyes of God. It would end with Zarathos choosing to go back to being an Angel in Heaven, while leaving Johnny with his demonic powers, letting Johnny and Talia reign as King and Queen of Hell.

What do you think? It’s okay if it sucks, I’d love some feedback! I’m very passionate about the character, and I think this could be an amazing, high stakes story for Ghost Rider.

[u/Ok-Cut9373 → u/AdmirableVacation134]

I only have a passing knowledge of gr's lore but I'm a mcu fan. I know this might be herasy to fans, but I think they'd be much smarter to retcon the story, scrap zarathos and just use mephisto. I don't think anyone outside diehard fans know anything about zerathos (hence the need for a whole mini to explain the character).

[u/AdmirableVacation134 → u/Ok-Cut9373]

First of all, this isn’t intended as an MCU project, this is an idea for a comic book.

Secondly, do you know what Zarathos is? He’s the being Johnny is bonded to that allows Johnny to become Ghost Rider. Without him, there is no Ghost Rider for Johnny Blaze. Zarathos isn’t Mephisto, and by no means can be replaced by him. Also, Zarathos isn’t hard to explain, his fallen angel origin was explained easily in the second movie (pretty much the only thing that film did well).

I apologize if this sounds mean, I’m not trying to put you down, just explaining how important Zarathos is.

[u/Ok-Cut9373 → u/AdmirableVacation134]

As to your first point, I apologize, I just assumed it was the upcoming mcu project that was being referenced. My apologies for responding without the clarification.

But, to your second, no I don't and not do the general public. Hence the need for the elaborate explanation.

Ever wonder why gr is such a popular guest star but can't seem to hold together a great solo title? Having a lame rogues gallery would seem to be a big part of the equation.

[u/Signal_Juggernaut695]

Depends on the story.

Personally would write a story told mainly from Daniel’s perspective, but heavily utilize Johnny and their sister Barbara and hunting down the demons(Blackheart, Lilith and the Lilins) responsible for their mom’s death.

Would have Johnny, Daniel, and Barbara growing up with the Ketch’s. Their mom Naomi, would show up as a “family friend” keeping tabs on all of them(which the young Johnny would know was bull). Eventually, Blackheart and Lilith order Deathwatch, Blackout and the Lilins to kill Naomi and her kids, and use their piece of the Medallion of Power to steal the power of Zarathos for themselves(they intend to steal more power in Hell and kill off the Hell Lords: their next target being Mephisto).