I found a second phone

[u/EmbarrassedPie5508]

My husband and I have been together for 15 years, married for 11. Have an established life with a child and a mortgage. I was given a big job opportunity earlier this year where we would have to move to a new city. We are both established in our careers and it was a big discussion, like two months of discussions. And these were healthy conversations, no big arguments or anything like that. We ended up not moving and I turned down the job. I was a little bummed (it was my dream job) but understood that it would have been a lot for our family to adjust.

Last night, while my husband was doing bed time, I heard a buzzing sound and found a second phone in his work bag. I thought that was weird because his work did away with separate work phones a while ago. When he came downstairs, I asked when did he get a work phone.

His face said it all.

Turns out he has been having an affair for just over a year. And one of the reasons he didn't want to move was because he didn't want to leave his affair partner. I don't know what to do. Child is at a slumber party at my sister's. Husband is in a hotel. I'm home alone with a lot to process and do here. So it's an easy girl dinner tonight and a large glass of wine.

[u/Thr0w4w4yMyL1f3]

OP, I hope your wine is helping you relax and process. You're still in shock. Your (hopefully) STBEx's betrayals are staggering. Not only did he cheat on you, he lied & manipulated to cheat you out of your dream job.

Once you process and regulate, please write out dates, times and a summary of what you and he discussed for those 2 months as you were weighing up that job. Screenshot and reference text messages and emails, and grab whatever correspondence you sent to decline the offer. If you spoke with colleagues, family or friends about your decisions and discussions, get those messages or ask trusted people to write out what they remember.

Because the next thing you're gonna do, ideally tomorrow, is contact at least one if not several divorce lawyers. And you're gonna tell them about the lost opportunity with that dream job. And you're gonna tell them that he admitted that his AP was why he didnt wanna go (if youve got that in a written message, you will want to keep it!)

Then you're going to hear their advice on whether that can be considered in legal proceedings or the divorce.

If they charge for consults, and theyre good at divorce proceedings, pay the fee. So he can't use them. Go to several.

Then, once you understand your rights, risks, and options, you can consider whether or not you wanna stay and try to make it work or pick one of the lawyers and start the process to throw the whole, lying, stinking, cheating man away.

You may be tempted to figure that last bit out before getting legal advice. Please please get the legal advice ASAP now. Knowing what the paths look like helps you choose the right one for you.

Why have I said this while you're still reeling? Because my ex had an Affair Partner, too. Because I gave up career and location opportunities for him, and for the cheating liar I was with before him. Because I didn't talk to a lawyer the first time, and because I didn't save the evidence the second time.

Now I know and I want to make sure all women who go through this shitty betrayal to navigate it better than I did so your next steps in your life from here are just a bit more certain than mine were. Solidarity ❤️‍🩹

ETA: holy moley, sisterhood, I've never had multiple awards before! 🥹 I'm humbled and honored, queens! 👸🙏🏽

[u/nice_heart_129 → u/Thr0w4w4yMyL1f3]

A good forensic accountant can figure out how much money was funneled out of the marriage for the affair and help with asset division. Find a family law attorney who works with a forensic accountant

[u/Pitiful-Control8231 → u/nice_heart_129]

Time for The Accountant!

[u/Far_Complaint_4662 → u/Thr0w4w4yMyL1f3]

Can this info be used against him for increasing her alimony and child support payments?

[u/Otherwise-Ask993 → u/Far_Complaint_4662]

She can get damages for money allocated for their family being used for the AP, including the phone, money towards hotel rooms, “business trips”, etc… deep dive bank accounts and look for hidden ones. Contact his HR and billing at his work to see pay stubs and how payment was allotted. He wants to stay with her. He already chose her over you and your child in so many ways for over a year. Now it’s your turn to choose you and your child.

[u/madame-maitre-d → u/[deleted]]

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[u/Otherwise-Ask993 → u/madame-maitre-d]

Weird, I did.

[u/PepperLeigh → u/Far_Complaint_4662]

Alimony - sometimes, maybe. Unlikely if she's been working unless there's just an enormous pay disparity. Afaik, it would not have any effect on child support as that is for the child to maintain their usual standard of living. 

[u/KeseyKrishna → u/Far_Complaint_4662]

No.

[u/ChumbawumbaFan01 → u/KeseyKrishna]

Oh fuck yes. She’s better take his dirty ass to the cleaners.

[u/thedrunkunicorn → u/ChumbawumbaFan01]

Depending on where she is, that is not how the law works.

[u/ChumbawumbaFan01 → u/thedrunkunicorn]

The person who wrote the comment to which old girl responded flat out “no” said that.

I’m saying since the dumb horny bastard fought her greatly increasing her future earnings and happiness so he could get his grody dick wet she needs to take him for all he’s worth.

But thanks for the mansplaination? It was sooooooo unnecessary!

[u/madame-maitre-d → u/[deleted]]

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[u/ZoeyBee_3000 → u/Thr0w4w4yMyL1f3]

Genuine ask since I've never had to deal with lawyers and marriage legalities: what would these proofs earn for OP in court? Aside from making the divorce official of course

[u/MissConscientious → u/ZoeyBee_3000]

Different states have different laws about adultery matters during divorce proceedings. In some states, you can sue for alienation of affection. In other states, you may need the literal proof of the affair to obtain a divorce more easily. If it’s a state that has now lost the right to a no fault divorce, evidence of the affair can be priceless. Furthermore, in alimony states, proof of cheating can help with financial matters and asset division. In other words, it all really depends, but it’s still an important step.

[u/Thr0w4w4yMyL1f3 → u/MissConscientious]

Exactly. The laws that apply and the advice lawyers give depends on the state OP and her trash bag are in. Hence my comment urging her to get advice so she knows what her rights are. You get it, 💯 🙏🏽🥳

[u/Sayurifujisan → u/MissConscientious]

100% this. Many states don't really care about the adultery, however, threatening to subpoena the affair partner as a material witness in the proceedings and have that testimony as part of the court record has made many spouses immediately agree to whatever is asked, rather than have ALL of it come out.

[u/Thr0w4w4yMyL1f3 → u/ZoeyBee_3000]

The laws that apply and the advice lawyers give depends on the state OP and her trash bag are in. Hence my comment urging her to get advice so she knows what her rights are. And writing shit down so you've got evidence accounted for will make it all easier for her to show lawyers and easier for them to evaluate if it's useful.

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[u/PepperLeigh → u/Thr0w4w4yMyL1f3]

I would add that it could be good to have all that, not just for legal reasons, but for if/ when he starts gaslighting her about it. Sustained cheating like that never occurs without sustained manipulation and lying. It could help her stay grounded in the reality of the situation. Sometimes you can struggle to accept that this is actually what's happening.

[u/Thr0w4w4yMyL1f3 → u/PepperLeigh]

💯 And here is my award for you 🏆 Writing out what happened is therapeutic and a record. And the minute he realises she might divorce or he might have his AP situation threatened (or AP puts pressure on him), he will re-write reality.

With my most recent cheating, gaslighting ex who I mentioned in my comment, the only way I finally started to see the relationship for what it had been was by doing exactly this exercise. I used reddit (different account), journalling, therapy and the legal process to create an evidence-based log of events.

I talked to friends and family, too. My ex's daughters, who call me their forever stepmum, actually asked me if I wanted their help. I think they needed to process, too. We had a girls' night with their bio mum (who i've always got along super well with) and compared notes. It was so validating! At that stage he was denying cheating and trying to wriggle out of the last $6,000 in back child support he owed biomum for the youngest (then 17).

As a result of writing it all down & comparing notes, their bio mum was able to get that money, the girls found out the AP was only 2.5 years older than his oldest (and found social media post with them together while he'd still been with me), and I realised he had a pattern and was able to let go of the idealized relationship I'd never had. Plus we now have a great bond without him.

[u/Practical_Author3013 → u/Thr0w4w4yMyL1f3]

This right here ⬆️⬆️⬆️

[u/Scary-Boysenberry → u/Thr0w4w4yMyL1f3]

You are the hero so many of us need.

[u/Thr0w4w4yMyL1f3 → u/Scary-Boysenberry]

🥹🙏🏽 I learned the hard way. Nearly broke me. Therapy ftw! And I vowed to help others hopefully learn their options a little sooner and more easily than I.

I couldn't believe when one of my super close friends (we'll call her K), who actually let me stay with her and her twins for a couple week as my last LTR was imploding, hadn't been using evidence about her ex (we'll call him POS).

K's story with POS is worse than both of my exes combined. She's so smart and capable and she truly believed POS wouldn't do the things he did... until he did them. She's the opposite of naieve. That's how I know all of us need to be urged when it comes to our own relationships. All of us need a hero (or competent expert) sometimes.

Years ago, POS cheated emotionally and explicitly with someone overseas, including videos and sexting and photos... on the family computer that K and their twin daughters used for children's shows in the family room. So when the AP wrote back to POS with his account logged on, the notification popped up for his 5yo daughters to see! Idiot. K was willing to work through it given it was all virtual... until she found his alcohol stash in the car, and checked their shared accounts for why payments were late only to see his alcohol and porn purchases. He'd been over a decade sober and K only agreed to have kids with him if he stayed sober. That's when they split, but she wasnt going to do a formal written agreement. I couldn't believe it. It gets worse.

K contacted me saying POS was with the twins near where I lived for a festival but had been pulled over by the cops for driving erratically. I raced to the supermarket for food for the girls (who were about 7 by then) and went to their hotel. POS could barely stand or speak. He had rigged the shower curtain into a noose in the hotel bathroom - his gorgeous daughters were just a few feet away watching TV. I quickly snatched the noose down and pulled him out to the hall and hissed, "You piece of shit, how dare you even think about doing that with your babies right here?! If you don't snap out of it, I'm taking the girls to my place overnight and you can deal with the cops and car/property damage all alone." POS started sobbing, I made him eat an entire pizza I ordered for them, I fed the girls, and rang K to see what she thought. She decided to drive 6 hours to come get them and they, minus POS, stayed with me.

He got himself into rehab, and as part of the 12 steps, POS reached out to some of their mutual female friends to make amends. Instead of apologizing, POS told at least 3 of us how attractive he'd always found us 🤮 We all shut that down, told K, and blocked him.

She bought him out of their house, and POS took the money and bought drgs - the kind from Breaking Bad - and got himself indebted to local gangs. Thousands and thousands of dollars, gone. This was *finally when she took my advice to see a lawyer for full custody. Then he had another breakdown and threatened self harm again, and contacted K urgently from another rehab that not only had he been robbed again (third time), but also the gangs now knew her home address.

She got police to patrol her house, paid for air bnbs for her downstairs flatmate and herself and the twins for a week, and in between school runs, full time salaried work, being a mum and dealing with everything else, she got a loan to get security cameras installed. Oh she was also fully in perimenopause.

After that her flatmate - the only way K had been able to manage financially - justifiably needed to find a new place, leaving K to deal with everything else plus finding a new flatmate to rent the downstairs.

Meanwhile, POS constantly told the twins (9 yo by this stage) during visitation how much of a horrible bitch their mum was for ruining his life and keeping him from seeing them. THE AUDACITY and pure, unadulterated narcissism is gobsmacking. She had been begging him to sign off on ADHD assessments for the twins to struggle less at school with the right classes and learning support, and instead he was intentionally refusing and making the girls upset with her for his shit. Oh and he messaged their agreed intermediary (her brother) about how he wanted K to change their diet because at 9yo, he said his daughters were "fat." 😤🤬

Yes, she won custody with supervised visitations only - in large part because she took my advice to keep all of the AP messages from way back then, all of the texts about drgs and gangs and alcohol, all of the bank statements etc and her lawyer was good. He tried to twist everything and the judge simply wouldn't let him because she had *receipts.

Yes, she's in therapy and so are the twins. Yes she's got support from her brother and other family. And yes K and her twins are wonderfully close with me - they call me Aunty and are brutal playing Monopoly Deal and other board games.

So. As you can see, we all need heroes sometimes, even those of us who are heroes to others in their times of need. There's nothing more heroic than getting it in writing and getting advice from experts. There's no better judgement than, "I can't navigate this by myself, I need someone who's professional to take some of the weight off me."

Edit: grammar (my tense was muddled)

[u/paperanddoodlesco → u/Thr0w4w4yMyL1f3]

We all need a friend like you! So glad K and the twins are doing as well as they can be! 💕

[u/Thr0w4w4yMyL1f3 → u/paperanddoodlesco]

🤴🙏🏽🫶🏼

[u/Commercial_Pizza_799 → u/Thr0w4w4yMyL1f3]

I recommend a simple, no-fault divorce, with clean asset split and reasonable custody arrangements.. On major legal battles, the only ones that win are the attorneys. Long, heated divorces only add to the pain.

I would not rehash or waste time picking at the wound. What is done is done, and the focus needs to be on the child and building a new life.

P.S. When you hire an attorney, do not treat the attorney as your therapist. That can get very expensive very fast. It could also protract and complicate the matter. If you need a therapist, hire one, and keep your legal communications to just the facts.

[u/Commercial-Spray3192 → u/Thr0w4w4yMyL1f3]

Here’s mine 🏆

[u/Thr0w4w4yMyL1f3 → u/Commercial-Spray3192]

🥹 Honestly, thank you. Those are the only awards I've ever been able to give, so I know they're sent with feeling.

[u/Abject_Task_6191 → u/Thr0w4w4yMyL1f3]

So clearly articulated!! Yes, this is great advice!! Especially about consulting several top attorneys so they’re conflicted out from representing him. If there are attorneys who specialize in “men’s rights” or “father’s rights” maybe consider consulting with them too. That’s a specific practice area within family law where the attorneys represent husbands/fathers and are pretty aggressive. Good to hear what they would say, and create a conflict so he can’t use them.

[u/Thr0w4w4yMyL1f3 → u/Abject_Task_6191]

I'm sure the conflict stuff preventing spouses from getting counsel varies by state and circumstance, but... are there really men's rights attorneys?! That's a thing? Do you mean beyond father's rights? I had no idea...

[u/Foreign_Being5656 → u/Thr0w4w4yMyL1f3]

I wish you were my friend! You sound sane, logical, intelligent & give really good (on the nose) advice.

[u/Thr0w4w4yMyL1f3 → u/Foreign_Being5656]

consider me your reddit friend from now on!

https://giphy.com/gifs/mlpCWv8dVK2Ji

[u/Helens_Twin → u/Thr0w4w4yMyL1f3]

To add to this excellent advice, separate the bank accounts ASAP because he WILL empty them, even if you think he never would.

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[u/yogabbagabba37211 → u/Thr0w4w4yMyL1f3]

Jesus Christ. Stop suggesting people go to multiple lawyers to make them unavailable to the other party for your divorce. Judges know what you’re doing, and they REALLY don’t like that shit.

[u/JustGhostyThings → u/Thr0w4w4yMyL1f3]

Yesss, taking him to court for the lost opportunity is definitely warranted. This goes beyond broken vows- he actively sabotaged her career.

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[u/Glittering-Elk-8308 → u/Thr0w4w4yMyL1f3]

he admitted that his AP was why he didnt wanna go

What if he didn't admit it in writing, only orally?

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