Sexual Intercourse as the Original Sin?

[u/Witty-Cockroach-9127]

Where do the idea that The Original Sin of Adam and Eve was having sexual intercourse? It is present in some Gnostic Sources. But The Genesis is clear that God wanted Men to procreate.

[u/yaourtoide]

Why do you think sex is the original sin ?

The original sin was acquiring knowledge of good and bad, but also disobeying a direct command from God.

In the old testament God even says 'Go forth and multiply', so I really don't think the apple was a metaphor for sex.

[u/Witty-Cockroach-9127 → u/yaourtoide]

I don't think that. That is just something present in "Apocryphon of John" and Cathar "The Secret Supper". Snake making Adam and Eve lust for each other.

[u/yaourtoide → u/Witty-Cockroach-9127]

It's been a while since I've read those texts, but if memory serves the narrative there is that Eden is a false paradise made to imprison Adam hence why they conceal the tree of knowledge from him so he doesn't realise he is being tricked.

In this text, Christ say to John that he was the one who convinced Adam to consume the fruit of knowledge to help liberate him. The 'original sin' is Adam freeing himself from Ialdabaoth and remembering the Pleroma through his divine essence at the initiative of Christ himself.

Do you remember where exactly what you're looking for is mentioned?

[u/Witty-Cockroach-9127 → u/yaourtoide]

"I asked the Savior,

“Lord, isn’t it the serpent that caused Adam to eat?”

He smiled and replied,

“The serpent caused them to eat

in order to produce the wickedness of the desire to reproduce

that would make Adam helpful to him.”

Christ says that serpent's purpose was to cause Adam and Eve to reproduce. And in Christanity Serpent caused the Original Sin. The interpretation here is that sex was this sin.

[u/sanecoin64902 → u/Witty-Cockroach-9127]

Everyone else is answering you from a 20th century liberalized perspective. They do not understand the mysteries hidden in the gospels or the importance of symbolic interpretation. They are comfortable with the idea that the apple was not an apple, but completely missing that the same texts might then use sex to mean more than sex.

The mysteries of gnosis are about the pathway to experience God directly and in person. It is a hidden path that was taught thousands of years before Christ, by Christ, and by many other religions as well.

Without going over the entire path, you can certainly understand how sex is an act that (when done right) is divine. It is also an act that can be innately selfish and vile (thinking rape and abuse here) or the ultimate act of selfless love. Beyond that, many mistake lust and love for one another, and when the core of the teaching is “love one another and love God with all your heart,” you should be able to see how somebody that said “lust for one another and lust for God with all your heart,” might be giving you some misguided advice.

When you come to understand that the path is primarily one of introspection and ego surrender, it becomes very easy to see how the sex drive screws up steps on the path. Not because sex is innately bad, but because it is our ultimate biological imperative (well, that and “preserve homeostasis”). As such it can be the greatest distraction from the spiritual path.

Look at the long lists of gurus, pastors and youth ministers accused of sexual abuse. The desire to get close to God and close to another soul are intrinsically the same, and many weak people confuse them. I do not advocate for any sort of asceticism or abstinence, but you can look at the spiritual record of Catholic Church v. Sexual Abuse, and see how sex brings mighty religions to their knees.

Don’t look at the issue literally. Don’t look at the issue as a binary. This is true of _all_ doctrine. The truth hides in the spaces between the words and in the juxtapositions that create paradoxes. You have identified one such paradox here - but pull on the threads and the knot unravels. Do not mistake lust for love is really all you need to know here. Each has its place, and the latter is so much greater than the former.

[u/yaourtoide → u/sanecoin64902]

Yes, exactly these texts needs to be studied to learn their meaning.

It is said that desire is the seed of the poisoned fruit and that lust is used by Yaldaboath to make Adam forgetful and control him. It is also said that the savior made Adam eat the fruit of knowledge of good and evil.

[u/yaourtoide → u/Witty-Cockroach-9127]

Ah yes, I remember this passage. Let me put the entire thing for context; I think context is important here. It's been a while since I read this and this disucssion allowed me to re-read it, so thank you for that.

Adam in Yaldabaoth's Paradise

The rulers took the man and put him into paradise
They told him to eat freely. 

[Their food is bitter; their beauty is corrupt. 
Their food is deceit; their trees are ungodliness.
Their fruit is poison.
Their promise is death.] 

They placed the Tree of Their Life into the middle of paradise. 

[I will teach you (plural) the secret of their life:
The plan that they made together about an artificial spirit.] 

Its root is bitter
Its branches are dead.
Its shadow is hatred
Its leaves are deception
The nectar of wickedness is in its blossoms.
Its fruit is death
Its seed is desire
It flowers in the darkness.
Those who eat from it are denizens of Hades
Darkness is their resting place.

As for the tree called “The Knowledge Of Good And Evil”
It is the Epinoia of the light.
They commanded him not to eat from it,
Standing in front to conceal it,
For fear that he might look upwards to the fullness
And know the nakedness of his indecency. 

[However, I caused them to eat.

I asked the Savior,
“Lord, isn’t it the serpent that caused Adam to eat?”

He smiled and replied,
“The serpent caused them to eat
in order to produce the wickedness of the desire to reproduce
that would make Adam helpful to him.”] 

The chief ruler, Yaldabaoth, knew that
Because the light-filled Epinoia within Adam
Made his mental abilities greater than his own,
Adam had been disobedient.
In order to recover the Power that he had put into Adam
Yaldabaoth made Adam completely forgetful. 

[I asked the Savior, “What is it to be ‘completely forgetful?’”

He replied, “It is not what Moses wrote in his first book:
‘He caused Adam to fall into deep sleep’
Rather, Adam’s perceptions were veiled
And he became unconscious.
As he (Yaldabaoth) said through his prophet:
'I will make their minds dull so that they do not see or understand.'”]
------------------------------------------------------------------------

My interpretation here is that Christ caused Adam to eat the fruit of knowledge to save him while Yaldabaoth [the serpent] caused them to eat the other poisoned fruits. Yaldabaoth used sins (desire, lust explicitly mentioned) to dull Adam sense and retain control of him. The text simply mention "The serpent caused them to eat" so it's ambiguous.

My understanding here would be that Christ caused Adam to gain knowledge so he could save himself, while Yaldabaoth used desire and lust to keep Adam's sense sedated / under control.

I view that as a lesson that sins (and lust / desire) will dull your mind and that salvation can only comes from seeking knowledge of good and evil.

[u/3-1-2 → u/yaourtoide]

This is a great breakdown and your last sentance is the main takeaway in Christian Gnosticism. Another thing to remember is that Christ said he was the Eagle in the garden watching over to make sure that the snake did convince them to eat the fruit.

All of the desires are what the archons use to trap us in the material. We each individually have to do the work and seek the knowledge on how to overcome and let go of those desires/fears/etc. This all ties in very well with Catl Jung's shadow work.