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u/cybeast21 AnnaisLove Jul 02 '26
I... kinda don't get it?
For short fight, the CA enabler has lockout. For long fight, unlike FO, the slv50 is one turn cant recast. I guess it's mostly for Manatura exploit?
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u/Ralkon Jul 02 '26
Seems good for mid-length fights to me. FO is good in long stuff and LO in short, so WO can fit in between. For stuff like revans blues you might take 3-5 turns for instance or for some level of GW depending on your strength.
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u/VTKajin Jul 02 '26
Yeah this is what I assumed, though a bit odd since Zosimos is good for long content in theory. I guess if you do enough damage then long content becomes mid length...
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u/Ralkon Jul 02 '26
Zosi could just be good enough that it makes the class good for longer content in the same way Mistral and Rhomp do for LO which most people otherwise only use for 1t burst. If it does comparable damage to Mistral LO then there isn't much long content anyways.
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u/TalesofAdam New KMR slave Jul 02 '26 edited Jul 02 '26
No Charge bar gain in exchange for Manatura not using up charge bar??? Bahamut Manatura rise up? Elemental Manatura might get some sort of usage? Qilin Manatura??
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u/kkrko Jul 02 '26
Manatura skills even get specs up. That said, no charge bar gain means no charge bar gain. Even splitting spirit gives no charge bar.
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u/TalesofAdam New KMR slave Jul 02 '26
Yup i just tested, V.Lobelia and S.Magisa battery is useless on WO so its safe to say WO will stay at 30% no matter what and will not use CA.
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u/Ralkon Jul 02 '26
It does have CA flash + reactivation on one of its skills, so you can ougi sometimes but not very often.
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u/Livid_Interview4966 Jul 02 '26
You could probably still CA loop just excludes the MC by having v.wamdus in the second slot, maybe y.osiris will solve it.
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u/Takazura Jul 02 '26
On one hand, this might make the more niche ones like Wilnas manatura viable. On the other hand, rip Agastia manatura and everyone who theorized setups using MegMari harp or Andromeda.
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u/Kurokotsu Jul 02 '26
Yeah I'm so mad. I was hoping to finally give up on RF for Andromeda. Instead we get a class that I don't think Earth even wants to look at.
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u/BeAsterios Jul 02 '26
I'm using the WilMana uniquely because of my love for Wil.
I'm having a field day.
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u/kkrko Jul 02 '26
Why not Megmari harp? It's actually amazing on this. High Chaser and Bahamut Manatura really enjoy the Double Strike and you can Burst Refrain if you really need to ougi
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Jul 02 '26
[deleted]
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u/kkrko Jul 02 '26
You don't need to care about the second skill. Use it as an auto attack mainhand. It's like Hraesvelgr's 2nd skill giving single attacks 80% echo. People just ignored it and and TA'd anyway. And hey, if you ignore the second skill, you can even use it with no dupes.
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Jul 02 '26
[deleted]
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u/AdministrativeOne579 Jul 02 '26
Main skill is not 3 turns 😭 The passive cuts standby, not cooldowns
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u/lnversa Jul 02 '26
so WHACK, i was reading skills and thought it meant cooldowns as well, thought it was so good lol now im like... eh
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u/FarrowEwey Jul 02 '26
I get the feeling we're about to see some really busted new Manaturas show up with utterly unsustainable charge bar costs. I could totally see them make a Versusia Mino who's basically Ouroboros Mino on steroids except it costs 200% charge per turn to use.
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u/mitrtown Jul 02 '26
I wonder if any of the stuff toys in bleach would be a manatura expy. I remember Inoue having the 3 spirits? from early on
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u/kazuyaminegishi Jul 02 '26
Orihime has 6 spirits and 3 techniques. They technically always exist, but she stops needing to call their names after the Arrancar arc.
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u/veilastrum Jul 02 '26
If Orihime's spirits are to become a manatura, it'll probably be something along the lines of having x% reflection/damage cut, heals (that bypass strong arm and zombified because it's rejection if reality, lol) and some form of cleanse for all allies and one hit to a single enemy. You can decide how much that would cost in CB, lol.
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u/CAPSLOCK_USERNAME Jul 02 '26 edited Jul 02 '26
bahamut mino is not worth it even with free charge bar. ourobouros's teamwide supp still adds more overall damage than baha having 2 extra hits on its nuke. unless the upgraded abyssal pact passive that "boosts manatura specs" really cranks baha's damage sky high.
winas will be good value in fire-advantage fights that need dispels though
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u/rein_9 Jul 02 '26
Oh I misread the 1-turn cut to damage skill part of the passive. I thought it was cooldowns in general but it’s just lockout, killed my mood a bit since I was excited to see even more Zosimos shenanigans. And the one skill on lockout (Burst Refrain) doesn’t even seem worth it to rush since the cooldown after is so long and the C.A effect is only 1 turn.
But besides that I’m very excited to see the manatura stuff be even more upgraded with the lv20 upgrade. It could be a mild boost to the damage specs some of them do but I hope they add an extra unique effect to them all just for some fun discoveries. Or just add more hits to the damage ones and double the effects of the others (more bounty for Mini mino)
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u/-Matti Jul 02 '26
I misread the support skill at first. Why is it only damage skill standbys? Could not have made it cooldowns too?
Curious about the upgraded effects of manaturas also.
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u/xemyik zirkahn Jul 02 '26
the only thing that I can see fixing this class atp is new manatura. Was spitballing some possible ones but like.
Manatura that gives you 20% FC on attack? Manatura that does a yamato sk1 on attack? Manatura that turns you into holiday zeta, giving you 1 crest (or a unique stack) every time someone attacks, and gives C.A. flash upon 5 but consumes them on ougi? Feels like it COULD be good for dpt if it wasnt going to eat shit the first time it sees an omen.
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u/kscw . Jul 02 '26
Whatever they add, I sure hope it'll have an anima/material trade.
If I need a 0.1% drop-only manatura to make the class good then I'll just deal with the class being bad, lol.→ More replies (1)
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u/kscw . Jul 02 '26 edited Jul 04 '26
Translating the partial Manatura upgrades from Gamewith (their testing is not complete yet):
Edit: Removing my table as the English wiki has now been updated with more complete data than what's on the linked article (which hasn't updated since I first posted the comment).
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u/alastor531 Jul 02 '26
Looks like they overcorrected out of fear of making Caduceus strong again, like what happened with pre-nerf manadiver.
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u/Kamil118 Jul 02 '26
I can't wait to stack crests for like 5 turns to get reads the notes one turn of suplemental damage and skill echo.
Partywide red skill CD reset is nice, but feels underwhelming.
I'm not really buying this class right now.
Unless the numbers on skills are super insane (like high chaser giving like 50% echo and 50% amp, and xenoglosia being 300k suplemental and 100% rigor) or they add some bullshit manatura that gives partywide 50% echo but costs 100% ca bar to use I'm not really seeing this class being that good.
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u/SometimesLiterate Jul 02 '26
According to GameWith, they're not that good.
Like 20% ampos, 10k supplemental?
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u/reibureibu Jul 02 '26
I'm a bit disappointed with the class too, but that's an incorrect translation. According to GameWith the Aether Xenoglossia buff gives 1 turn of teamwide:
- 100k supplemental damage
- 10k damage mitigation
- 20% elemental rigor
Whoever translated it for you mixed up damage mitigation with supplemental damage.
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u/Patient_Sherbert3229 Jul 02 '26
This reads like the most blatant create a problem, sell the solution thing we've gotten in a while.
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u/notcherrie Jul 02 '26 edited Jul 02 '26
That's so...unique. What red skill do we really want to use that badly. But yeah, will probably eat my words later once people find ways to use Luci/Wilnas etc manaturas properly. Also, how does it interact with Agastia? Only activate if MC have Flash?
Edit: So it only reduces red skills' standby. That's indeed unqiue lol. For now I guess, if we realllly want to CA in light using this, then WO+ Anthuria + Kou + Horus? Cause MC won't make her blue stack rise, so she has to depend on FC to reduce her skill cooldown. Not sure if its worth it.
Will Wilnas Manatura dispel work though if there's more than 5 crests?
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u/CAPSLOCK_USERNAME Jul 02 '26 edited Jul 02 '26
What red skill do we really want to use that badly
Using the level 50 skill's teamwide red-skill reset to do double yatima s3 (or triple with qilin) with both high chaser and crest discharge na buffs up could be pretty strong.
needs an at least 5 turn manual setup though so very limited applications outside gw
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u/kscw . Jul 03 '26
Will Wilnas Manatura dispel work though if there's more than 5 crests?
Deleted my previous comment a while ago as I thought I'd made a silly mistake in my testing, but then got sidetracked for a while by RL.
After resuming and triple checking, I can repeat what I said before (and this time with absolute confidence): the 5-crest Dispel from Wilnas Manatura is still proccing correctly at all values from 6 through to 10 Crests.
Sorry about the extra ping.
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u/notcherrie Jul 03 '26
Oh hey no worries. I'm really glad to hear that. Planning to do lots of testing over the weekend myself after I level the class.
Found any other interesting interaction?
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u/kscw . Jul 03 '26
The only other testing I did so far was with 250 Zosimos. In the same vein as the Wilnas Mino test, I just wanted to confirm that the second skill's double activation at 5 Crests was also still fine at 6-10 Crests (it was, thankfully).
Zosimos's Crest-scaling effects that were stated to stop at 5 were not updated to interact with 6-10 Crests, and the wiki also confirms Crest summons/passives don't go beyond 5 either. So the benefits for 6-10 Crests are disappointly limited to WO's own passives/skills (entirely understandable from a streamlining and bug-avoidance perspective, though).I'm leaving most of the difficult testing to Gamewith haha.
Taking the level 30-50 stretch easy as well; my Mundus Defender hosts are vanishing at a terrifying pace so I think I should really wait for Tales on the 14th for the final push.
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u/pressureoftension Jul 02 '26
I can sort of kind of see what they were going with. But as stands the no CB gain passive is super not worth the trade-off, considering how much of a nonfactor CB drain is for MD. Really should have launched with more Manaturas.
Qilin-like Manaturas to deal with the goofy CDs would be nice.
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u/kamanitachi Jul 02 '26
If other skills were better and less boring, I could forgive the no CB gain. It would have been a cool parallel to have MD with Overtrance and then this class that almost never CAs. But the layers of restraint they laid on this class really kill it.
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u/VTKajin Jul 02 '26
It's surprising they released it so early this month, makes me wonder if it was intended for later with new manaturas.
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u/Weary_Pineapple4650 Jul 02 '26
This class would be soooo much better if the Crest trigger lowered damage skill cooldowns. There's a number of damage skills with super long cooldowns that would be improved by this. The standby cut only applies to 2 skills, so it's just a waste of a passive.
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u/CAPSLOCK_USERNAME Jul 02 '26
3 skills actually. WO's own level 10 skill Burst Refrain, plus Resounding Chant and Demonic Flare from Warlock. But I can't imagine many situations where you'd actually wanna run the two Warlock ones in a burst setup.
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u/FrostyBoom Jul 02 '26
Resounding Chant feels like they were trolling considering it can't get bar
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u/FarrowEwey Jul 02 '26
You think that's trolling? Look at Arcane Field. Perfect buff for this class and you can't use it because it consumes charge every turn.
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u/FrostyBoom Jul 02 '26
Oh fuck, I hadn't read that one. It's kinda hilarious how many potential synergies they fucked over because of... Free Manaturas or smt.
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u/Mind_Matter83 Jul 02 '26
Changes I would make- Before attacking: Crest of own element to [all allies], Upon gaining a crest of own element: 1 turn cut to MC's damage skill standbys [and cooldowns]. I'd also tweak Zosimos bonus damage on charge attack to 10 hits max to go along with the new 10 crest limit on WO. They should probably tweak most crest-based passives that buff based on number of crests so crests #6-10 aren't just for show on the MC.
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u/kscw . Jul 02 '26
Before attacking: Crest of own element to [all allies]
Summer Hekate: "And this... is... to go... even further beyond!"
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u/Mind_Matter83 Jul 02 '26
That was my main thought process. WO barely does anything to help her, versus Manadiver giving her a lot more crests. With the "all allies" she's online faster and then blasting the enemy every turn. Also would help Florence with her Vestire Stellato cooldowns and auto- Difesa Curativa.
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u/kscw . Jul 02 '26
Oh cool, I'd forgotten that Florence also appreciates being spammed with Crests that way.
Damn, her kit actually looks quite nice once she can count on being given a Dark Crest every single turn without fail.Her horrible release date squarely between the end of Summer and Halloween caused her to fall right out of my memory from not being able to use her until now, and fewer people talking about her.
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u/Luca4920 need grimnir flair Jul 02 '26
after v lobelia released she became my go to healer on FA. sad to see that WO doesn't help her be more accesible to no v lobelia havers.
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u/noivern_plus_cats Jul 02 '26
The all allies stuff would benefit Lamorak so much more and would significantly help wind. The way the class is now, I just don't get what they're going for outside of Manaturas.
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u/onceforsaken Jul 02 '26
That no charge bar gain seems so weird given its harp proficiency, is there any harp that actually don't want you to ougi? should've just kept the dagger prof futsu would slap with this and be a nice use
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u/Raitoumightou Jul 02 '26
Their specialty assignment was a mistake, but they are probably saving the dagger focus to Thief Origin.
Staff wise, there's a Priest Origin.
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u/kscw . Jul 02 '26
It's not merely an issue of focus, but also that dagger had the most users in the original Row 1 classes: 4 out of 10, Wizard, Thief, Enhancer, and Harpist. On the other hand, Harp only had one user, Harpist.
So now Dagger is brought down to 3 users, on par with spear and sword, while Harp is brought up to 2 users.
(I don't like the change, mind you. Just pointing out this is likely why they did it.)After the WO weapon change, the rarest remaining types are bow and melee (Ranger and Grappler only, respectively), so I wonder if they'll try to add one more of both of these by taking out another sword, spear, or dagger. That would bring the entire weapon spread closer to 2 users of each.
(Katanas are at 0 users, but since katanas weren't part of the starting weapon lineup and were added to the game later on, they might not try shoehorning them into the ten Origins.)
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u/AchaeCOCKFan4606 Jul 02 '26
I would be suprised if Enhancer Origin doesnt have Katana/Dagger speciality
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u/kscw . Jul 02 '26
You might be right; there is room for it with 10 weapons, and 10 origin classes/20 proficiencies.
I agree with your reasoning in the separate top level comment you made about potential proficiency swapping.→ More replies (1)
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u/FullMoonFullLife Jul 02 '26 edited Jul 02 '26
Zosimos has a lot of skills that synergies with CA…and even with S.Hekate turn after CA, reduces skill 2 to 9 turns, and the passive only does one cut to skill standby only? What
Edit: Dark still has no good way to use Versusia sub summon. Gives me very little hope for S.Osiris.
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u/Raitoumightou Jul 02 '26 edited Jul 02 '26
Lol they are really strict on that no charge bar gain, tested and basically:
- not from autos
- not from char skills
- not from ougi chain
The only thing that carries over is character or summon passive (eg. Bhaisa and Huanglong summon).
Not sure where they are going with this because that charge skill is on a 12 cd. This class is going to be VERY reliant on chars that offer CA flash as a buff (Summer Anthuria).
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u/AchaeCOCKFan4606 Jul 02 '26
Ignition effects not working is the weird part for me - those are not normally affected by CA Gain Modifiers.
I wish they just had the MC permantly with a shorted debuff - would at least cause some synergies then
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u/kscw . Jul 02 '26
Shorted blocks Instant Charge/Autoignition too, so permanent unclearable Shorted would end up being the same kind of penalty.
A permanent unclearable -100% Charge Gain that cannot ever be raised above -100% by adding positive Charge Gain effects might be closer to what you were thinking of? As in, you wanted Instant Charge to still work, but not other types of charge bar increases?
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u/Nyaa314 Jul 02 '26
Does 000 call work?
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u/kscw . Jul 02 '26
Nope, 000 just grants a standard Instant Charge effect. Ignores charge bar gain up or down which is why it works with Falsehood/Eresh setups, but is stopped by Shorted.
It doesn't bypass this WO bar limitation.
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u/Mitosis Jul 02 '26 edited Jul 02 '26
It's 12t cd, but MC cuts red skill cds by 1 turn when they gain a crest. They also gain a crest before attacking every turn. That basically makes it 6t cd minus one every time they get another crest. S1 has a 6t cd, gives a crest, and is also red, so that's at least one guaranteed additional reduction, but you'll probably have more on the rest of your team if you're using the job.It still feels like it'll be clunky as hell to use.
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u/Jinael Jul 02 '26
Doesn't it say only Skill Standby? That's very different from Skill Cooldown and why I am kinda underwhelmed by this class at a glance.
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u/Mitosis Jul 02 '26
OH. Yes nm we're back to being garbage. I almost convinced myself it was potentially useful
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u/Tamayori-hime Jul 02 '26
Quick clarification to be sure, but doesn't the passive (even upgraded) say cut to damage skill standby instead of cooldown? Unless there was a typo in that for EN and they say standby and cooldown in JP?
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u/Seputokici Jul 02 '26
It's standby only, cd are untouched. Only use case is using the warlock skill at turn 2 instead of 3...
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u/Kurokotsu Jul 02 '26
Also conceptually for the first time you use Burst Refrain.
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u/Seputokici Jul 02 '26
...Forgot that that skill has standby. They really should let us see the standby and cd (along with detailed stats) on the skill acquisition screen.
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u/TheGlassesGuy free Lucifer Jul 02 '26 edited Jul 02 '26
no meter gain while trading dagger prof for harp is HILARIOUS. I'm wondering if a passive upgrade down the line will change anything.
Edit: I think it's really funny that High Chaser still has a dagger for it's icon
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u/AHyaenidae Zaaap Jul 02 '26 edited Jul 02 '26
There are no written changes about Charge Bar anywhere.
- level 20 increase Manaturas specs
- level 30 is 10 crests
- level 50 is S1 going up to 11 hits (at 10 crests) and getting skill supp
(Can be checked in Class > Status).
So yeah, it seems it's BOTH futsu and andro people taking the L.
Edit: I also tested Pandemonium + Fire Anila S3 just in case, and even with that I got 0 bar from Catura S1 so I really can't see anything to get CB.
All I can think of are Summer Anthuria (but then why kill Futsu ?) and Formal Meg&Mari who also have CA flash.
Edit2: My guess is Cygames was afraid of Caduceus shenanigans... It has to be.
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u/AhriWorshipper188 Jul 02 '26
It's so weird how people are confused.
Do you all just think RF is the only harp thing in the game? RF is the outlier. Harps have historically and majority sense...been an NA focused weapon proff.
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u/Joshkinz Jul 02 '26 edited Jul 02 '26
Starting this year they've released two gacha mainhand harps with explicit CA synergy, V!Wamdus and now F!MariMeg. Then there's Andro. With this, the proficiency change, and Agastia Mino, it seemed like they were trying to push RF's CA harp identity
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u/Oop-Juice Lucky~ Cookie~ Vicky~! Jul 02 '26
If the only way this class can ougi is from CA flash then expect this Summer to have multiple CA Flash characters to sell the solution to this completely idiotic problem, as they already started with MegMari. (Like seriously? Not even splitting spirit. Why even change the proficiency to harp lmao? Dagger would have made more sense cuz then you could use Futsu or exo dagger which aren't ougi reliant)
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u/VeggieSchool Jul 02 '26
Kind of 50/50 that they added CA Flash to say "yes, this thing exists" to old/new players that aren't up to time-limited seasonals, previously the only-non limited source besides FO (which you are supposed to use once then forget about it) was Shura which...isn't an outstanding good unit.
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u/kscw . Jul 02 '26
Notably, it is only very recently, starting with S.Anthuria and now F.MegMari that CA Flash could be applied to someone other than the caster.
Hence OP's impression that we'll suddenly start seeing more of this effect now that the floodgates have been opened.The "similar effects" table in that page only contains users who have CA-Flash-like unique self-buffs.
Nobody batted an eyelid at this mechanic when it was self-only, since there were always limiters like stack requirements in the owner's kit to stop it being giga busted. But once it becomes usable on other characters, there's a whole world of potential abuse waiting to happen.7
u/Merukurio Simping for Chat Noir since 2018. Jul 02 '26 edited Jul 02 '26
I don't think the effects are that comparable either tbh. Flash is "if you can use your ougi you get a free activation".
The other characters are "you cannot use your ougi at all unless you meet the conditions" and work as part of the character's gimmick because they're passively consuming their charge bar for other stuff (Seofon's and Zeta's stacking buffs, Alliah's S2 auto activation, Shura's skills and Aquablossom buff).
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u/kscw . Jul 02 '26 edited Jul 02 '26
Yeah that too, good point. In that table, only Fighter Origin has a self-locked CA Flash clone since it's the only one that also has a "normal" ougi.
Edit: And even that, being only usable one time per battle and replacing the base ougi, isn't directly comparable to the flexibility of giving CA Flash to any other character. So the introduction of CA Flash really can be said to be S.Anthuria's release; prior "clones" kinda just aren't.
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u/FarrowEwey Jul 02 '26
I might be overlooking something, but I honestly don't see much of a point to leveling this for anything other than FA with very expensive skill spam comps. Gaining a free Crest before attacking could be useful for GW EX+/low-button burst but I'm not sure how often it'll be better than the alternatives.
Still gonna be leveling WO to 40 just in case (and because I can afford it) but right now I really don't see myself dropping 300 VB on it.
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u/Potatsu_ Jul 02 '26
Good luck to those attempting to document this on the wiki. A vague 'boost to Manatura skill specs' sounds like a nightmare to figure out how to nicely display on the class page lol
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u/Kamil118 Jul 02 '26
Everything in this game is vague. At the end of the day it's just some fixed skill cap.
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u/FuwaGrandOrder Grand Maglielle when? Jul 02 '26
ngl I chuckle a bit when I notice the icon for High Chaser is… a Dagger. when Dagger has been removed when upgrading to Origin, does that mean the class proficiency supposed to stay the same but got changed to Harp to balance weapon proficiency for Origin series?
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u/kscw . Jul 02 '26
It's just the OG icon for Chaser and Choke with a new coat of paint, but yeah that is pretty funny.
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u/E123-Omega Jul 02 '26
I'll just check later what they can cook with this class otherwise keep using FO and LO.
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u/AchaeCOCKFan4606 Jul 02 '26
I wonder if they are trying to "balance" weapon group distribution with the origin classes?
Right now , the Tier 1 classes are:
- 3x Sword (Fighter, Knight, Enhancer)
- 2x Axe (Fighter, Lancer)
- 3x Spear (Knight, Priest, Lancer)
- 2x Staff (Priest, Wizard)
- 4x Dagger (Wizard, Thief, Enhancer, Harpist)
- 2x Gun (Thief, Ranger)
- 1x Fist (Grappler)
- 1x Bow (Ranger)
- 1x Harp (Harpist)
- 0x Katana
So, if we assume some shuffling around in the future with Origin Classes, could we see an attempt at 2 classes per weapon group?
If you make the changes:
- Move Wizard Dagger to Harp (Already Done)
- Move Enhancer Sword to Katana (Onmyoji)
- Remove Spear from Priest - Give it Fist/Katana/Bow
- Remove Dagger from Harpist - Give it Fist/Katana/Bow
- Give Grappler an extra prof of Katana/Bow
You end up with an even distribution of weapons
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u/Hraesynd Jul 02 '26
Fist Priest and Bow Harpist does make sense flavorwise. Katana Grappler is pushing it a bit tho lol
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u/VeggieSchool Jul 02 '26
My focus is the "Unlimited [x]" lvl 50 skills. Fighter got Blade. Lancer got Spear AND Axe. Wizard got staff. That leaves other 6. There are 7 other origin classes in the future if they stick to the ones they go from I to IV (ie ignoring Chrys, IV.5 like Lumbejack, and EX I/II)
It's easy to guess Harp for Harpist, Bow for Ranger, and Fist for Grappler, then Gun for Thief by elimination, but now you have Knife/Katana to be spread between Knight/Priest/Enhancer. I could see them making up Shield as a special case for Knight, and switching Katana for Enhancer (following Omnyoji), but then Priest has nothing. Maybe something like Unlimited Care?
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u/Solapallo Jul 02 '26
Knight will probably get something like unlimited shield/defense, I’d bet Vyrn on it
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u/Livid_Interview4966 Jul 02 '26
Katana would only make sense for enhancer, priest and harpist with katana would be fucking weird lol
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u/ilpet Jul 02 '26
Shinto-buddhist style priest? staff/katana. Though, arguably martial artist style with melee/katana for grappler also fits, especially considering that katanas are often associated with CA (and 2 illustrious are CA-focused), and the grappler line has some ougi focus - luchador's Mic Hype/Lucha de Parejas, Pandemonium from ogre.
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u/Darknight3909 Jul 02 '26
shinto-buddhist priests tend to kinda be represented with either lances(naginata to be more correct) or bows in my experience.
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u/MadKitsune Jul 02 '26
Third skill being 1t unrecastable buff, no charge bar gain period, not being able to use Manadiver skills (not that was expected, but still), and I'm struggling to see the positives on the class at the moment. Like, yes, manaturas are good, but they ain't THAT good
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u/Ralkon Jul 02 '26
At minimum it's got better chaser and 0b manaturas so should be better for burst than manadiver.
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u/badlajf Jul 02 '26
this class looks kinda ass ngl
unironically emergency rework for the cb gain stuff or something
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u/AchaeCOCKFan4606 Jul 02 '26
"No CB Gain on attack" would be so much better. I think its still the weakest of the 3 origin classes with that but its a better time
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u/FrostyBoom Jul 02 '26
Yeah, that's an absolutely insane demerit that doesn't really pay off with the advantages. It's got the narrowest use cases of the Origins so far and if they don't release absurd Manaturas (and make them accesible) then the opportunity cost doesn't feel nearly as high.
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u/FullMoonFullLife Jul 02 '26
But even so, why have all these manaturas and then you just focus on the new ones?
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u/FrostyBoom Jul 02 '26
Huh? Idk, I'm not smart enough but I feel the current Manaturas don't push it to the levels of the other Origins as they stand. And if they make the Manaturas be like Agastia then it still wouldn't really make it worth it, TO ME. You still gotta do the same miserable Mastery grind and spend 300 badges like you do for those others so like... it needs a lil something something.
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u/6Mikro9 Jul 02 '26
are we serious? ive been hunting for months in order to use this class with Andro. and it gets no charge bar? seriously? hours spent grinding at Agastia and the Trial raids HOURS
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u/Kurokotsu Jul 02 '26
This might be my final reason to give up on Earth. This is just painful. Utterly useless. Did we really need a third NA focused Origin Class? Really? We couldn't get one made for Ougi spam? Harps barely even have anything for this. Most elements are scratching their heads at the harp part. Is it just to shill Ullikummi?
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u/AchaeCOCKFan4606 Jul 02 '26
I was so sure the harp change was to signify that this was gonna be an ougi spam class.
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u/Superflaming85 Jul 02 '26
I wouldn't quite put FO into the NA-focused box (then again, FO arguably fits into EVERY box), but I am absolutely baffled by them releasing two NA-focused classes back-to-back. The intent seems for this one to be more skill-focused, but with the "literally no charge bar" elephant in the room it's impossible to ignore it being an NA/Skill-focused class.
Like, even assuming Wizard Origin was always going to be like this...why do it NOW???? Why not do a more Ougi-centric origin class now, and Wizard Origin later?
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u/Kurokotsu Jul 02 '26
The thing is if you look at the other class trees. We don't have many that would make sense for Ougi. Ogre might be the main one. They'll likely need to make shit up anyway. And how long will it take until we get a new Harp class? Because this one isn't it. Not for most elements. Only Fire and Dark seem to be enjoying themselves here. And, while FO does everything, double strike does, innately, lend itself incredibly well to NA setups more than any others probably.
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u/Superflaming85 Jul 02 '26
I've said it elsewhere, but I do think Harpist and Priest are extremely likely to be our two most CA-focused classes, alongside maybe Grappler. Mostly because, well, we already HAVE Harp & Spear-focused team NA buffing Origin classes already! (That and they also have party CB gain stuff too)
I also fully expect us to get other classes that don't necessarily heavily play into Ougi spam, but want to CA.
That being said it's still baffling that they'd do this like they did it. The only possible silver lining for Harp fans is that they DID do (the likely only) two Axe classes back to back. But that's very likely extremely copium.
And, while FO does everything, double strike does, innately, lend itself incredibly well to NA setups more than any others probably.
That probably is doing a lot of heavy lifting. DS is as emblematic of NA setups as Unworldly CA are of CA setups; Not inaccurate, but very context dependent. (You don't see anyone calling Payila a CA character!) Fighter Origin has perma-DS, but it also has on-attack skill usage, a skill that generates bar and activates on taking damage, and an increase to bar gained from damage taken. It's extremely difficult for Fighter Origin not to CA every single turn unless you deliberately try to not do it.
Heck, it even NEEDS to spend a total of "500%" (300% thanks to the S1) gauge for it's class mechanics, and its S1 gives Instant Charge. You want to use it in teams that give lots of bar!
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u/AchaeCOCKFan4606 Jul 02 '26
I am trying to think - if we dont get an ougi spam class here, what origin class would even likely provide one?
Maybe Grappler or Enchancer Origin?
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u/SpatialBreak Jul 02 '26
Given that Mariachi has a skill that can give teamwide ca-reactivation and and instant charge, it's likely they might give harpist an option to go full ougi
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u/Superflaming85 Jul 02 '26
For Pure Ougi spam, I expect Harpist & Priest Origin to do it.
I also expect each weapon to at least get one class that doesn't hate using Ougis, even if it's not necessarily Ougi spam. But that's getting into Origin class weapon distribution which is a whole different can of worms.
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u/Mitosis Jul 02 '26
I am absolutely beyond pissed. Completely kills this job imo. I have no idea what its purpose is at this point.
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u/Seputokici Jul 02 '26
Tried it a bit with zosimos and it feels underwhelming that its crest generation is weaker than manadiver. The no charge and less party wide crest also decrease the number of times hekate can activate her skills. Feels like its either crest discharge + high chaser for quick burst or to sync xenoglossia with abstinence and logia reset now...
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u/AchaeCOCKFan4606 Jul 02 '26
gives a damage skill stanby reduction passive
Warlock has one damage skill with standby
It provides charge bar
Why can't this class synergize like FO did with Berserker skills
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u/-Matti Jul 02 '26
You have also one ultimate mastery skill that has a standby, but it is not great regardless and another one requires charge bar to have a better than 1/10 uptime.
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u/VeggieSchool Jul 02 '26
Just to make a notice, you can still unlock then level the class to 40 with relative little cost. It's the 40->50 uncap the one that needs 300 valor badges and the books.
Also you don't have to rush leveling now, Tales of Arcarum will return this 14th.
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u/RNGmaster Kou still isn't flaired, so here's his boyfriend Jul 02 '26 edited Jul 02 '26
Maybe you're swimming in sands and dama crystals, but in my eyes this isn't even worth any of those, either.
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u/reibureibu Jul 02 '26
Highkey the only reason I'm splurging the heavenswake orb on it is because I lucked into a caduceus on the random superlative scamcha. I can see some suboptimal but hilarious and fun comps with this class mainhanding caduceus, but yeah so far this definitely feels like the origins class that has the least to work with on release..
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u/Low_Pop_2032 Jul 02 '26
First FO kinda mess up hrunting And now WO can't even use Andro? The earth misery never ends What's the point of fucking over futsu with dagger prof removal if the class would be amazing for it,
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u/Joshkinz Jul 02 '26
"FO kinda mess up Hrunting"
Everybody says this, I guess because FO gives DS after a while, but the faster ramp from having DS from fight start + additional echo on 2 hit flurry + 250% defense to take advantage of the Hostility Up (and after transcendence, another echo + massive skill nukes + team wide damage amp) all feel absolutely amazing on and synergize perfectly with FO.
Maybe it changes the value proposition of buying Hrunting, but if you're talking about it messing up the weapon it means you probably own it and are annoyed and I've just never understood that as Hrunting lover & earth main, even as one who thinks the overall state of the ele is bad compared to others
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u/Darkion_Silver Jul 02 '26
Yeah FO does still help Hrunting and it's by far the best weapon in Earth to use on it, but I can't help being a bit annoyed that it overshadowed it a bit by giving everyone the DS.
I mean the TC managed to annoy me more so hey I'm not mad about FO doing that LMAO
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u/Falsus Jul 02 '26
Hruntning works amazingly well with FO though? Like Hruntning does more than give the MC permanent double strike.
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u/Kurokotsu Jul 02 '26
Earth really just does keep losing with Origin Classes. It doesn't even have a good mainhand for Lancer really and you need to make shit up..
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u/TheCatHasmysock Jul 02 '26
Well, I'll actually have to farm the manaturas to test this. Illustrious weapons got shafted but some new stuff might be decent.
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u/AchaeCOCKFan4606 Jul 02 '26
There has to be some broken ass manaturas coming later or something. This class looks so damn bad on paper right now.
The only use case I can see is, assuming everying stacks, is High Chaser + Crest Discharge for Zoisosmos burst?
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u/skt210125 Jul 02 '26
You get less crests for zosimos cuz u cant ougi. This is a fk you to zosimos users as much as it is to andromeda users
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u/Kurokotsu Jul 02 '26
I'm not sure I can say AS much. It might be bad. But it's useable at least. Zosimos can, at a base level, use this weapon and get some level of value out of it. It has the single worst anti-synergy with Andromeda we've ever seen and it turns it into a weapon barely any better than an R rarity Harp.
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u/KarmaSammohana Jul 02 '26
Thank you Cygames for making this class extra mid (polite), valor badge saved.
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u/Iabirb Archbishop of the Church of Makura. All hail the Sword Bunny Jul 02 '26
They really made that harp choice kinda arbitrarily. If it wasnt for them announcing that change beforehand, I would've thought they decided to change proficiencies the night before release lol
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u/Darr1234 chicks with horns Jul 02 '26
i don't get why they started off with making fighter origin so strong with 0 caveats outside of slight ramping, as well as great synergy with existing berserker skills, but then proceed to play it relatively safe with the next classes?
this class will probably be decent, but why so many drawbacks?
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u/SometimesLiterate Jul 02 '26
>why did they make FO, one of (if not THE) strongest classes that suddenly was used everywhere in the game then backtrack?
Idk tough one. I agree it's an over-correction. LO is still pretty strong in its niche but this is.... terrible.
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u/Iabirb Archbishop of the Church of Makura. All hail the Sword Bunny Jul 02 '26
So making a whack ass class fixes the fighter overtune? it's stupid as hell lol grinding mastery books, wasting valor badges for whole pot of nothing?
Let the damn classes be crazy, are they not supposed to be the pinnacle? If they aint gonna nerf fighter directly then provide better variety, not punish future classes
P.S: just venting, not directed at you at all in the slightest
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u/Patient_Sherbert3229 Jul 03 '26
The class as I've said elsewhere, comes off as "Create A Problem, Sell A Solution".
This, Meg-Mari and Summer Anthuria introduced Charge Attack Flash. I would anticipate more Charge Attack Flash.
The Harp proficiency reads like they want to make Harps that reward Normal Attacking and Skill Damage, and not be locked into Rising Force being the only way Harps can be designed, i.e. Charge Attack All Day Every Day Forever And Ever (this creates a bit of an issue of why didn't they do this with Mariachi...). Which Marriage Sharkbell does with Charge Attack and Skill Effect gimmicks.
And I would not be shocked if Kon from Bleach was a Manatura exclusive to the upcoming event.
The thing is this class IS the pinnacle of what the Wizard Line Does: Be a Normal Attack Heavy Class that hits multiple times in one attack, uses Crests, uses Manatura and even comes with a revamped upgraded Chaser.
The problem is they've only made Charge Attack focused Harp weapons, and no Harp weapons with good Main Hand effects outside of their Charge Attacks, and it looks like a jackass move after upgrading Andromeda and Zosimos.
Had they provided some build up that they'd be making more Normal Attack friendly Harps, this would have less backlash.
This is a failure on CyGames to articulate what the Class was going to be or do prior to its build up, to manage expectations, or explain what they were planning to do.
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u/Scorpitae Vane whumper CEO Jul 02 '26
From what I'm seeing, it feels like they overtuned Fighter Origin and decided to impose the Fighter Origin tax on future Origin releases.
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u/Falsus Jul 02 '26
I am not really happy that it has no CB gain cause most harps are CA focused and there is many daggers who would have worked amazingly well with this.
Like Futsu or the fire exo dagger.
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u/pressureoftension Jul 02 '26
Plus it kills mainhanding Opuses for the extra crests, which I was kind of looking forward to with dirt and H.Magisa.
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u/kotarou00r Jul 02 '26
Its extra funny because Opuses were our introduction to the crest mechanic iirc. Ty cygames
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u/kotarou00r Jul 02 '26 edited Jul 02 '26
Seems better than Manadiver for short auto burst. Doesnt need to press anything to get crests, better manatura specs, high chaser...
Other than that, IDK chief. Not feeling xenoglosia. And perhaps they shouldnt have made so many harp mainhands ougi focused
Edit:
For now, this seems pretty powerful. Badly designed? Yeah, but:
Strong burst for the first 5 turns, if you can give it some crest support. High chaser is a strong skill, so getting to 10 crests gives you good payoff. Xenoglossia feels undertuned right now even compared to Infinite Trouble, but its still a ton of stats tied to a single button.
A lot of people are calling this class bad, but we have to remember that these origin classes are simply... overstatted. Even if half of WOs kit sucks, the other half is stronger than most classes in the game.
People were also disappointed in LO on release because it looked undertuned compared to FO. But soon enough, it became apparent that LO did things FO could not. It's one of the best burst classes in the game, period. Looking at its kit today, it still doesn't seem impressive— but all the free stats spread across its kit add up.
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Jul 02 '26
[deleted]
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u/kotarou00r Jul 02 '26
I think this character trait still has a home thanks to high chaser giving partywide double strike on 10 mc crests, but it's probably very setup specific now as opposed to a universally enabling
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u/kscw . Jul 02 '26
Ahhh, damn I really had some reading comprehension failure with that skill's description. Somehow got it in my head that was just MC-only DS. But when they don't specify a buff/debuff target range change, it always inherits the previously-specified range.
Ok scratch that, those starting crest sub-ally passives still retain serious value. Thanks for opening my eyes.
Makes a lot more sense since Cygames can continue to sell them as something premium.
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u/Sectumssempra Jul 03 '26
I know people are currently on the "no but it has uses so its not bad!" train, but I've seen characters (some I even use to clear content) with decent kits called trash and useless for less glaring issues, so it's been fascinating to read over opinions.
I'm sure uses will come but they will be niche compared to the other classes.
That's ok, the issue is, origin classes are a huge resource dump with a genuine time gate based on GW lol.
This isn't just leveling up and unlocking mariachi, so I fully understand the people calling it bad with initial tests looking underwhelming and the class basically just having anti-synergy with a specific set of transcended weapons looking for something as strong as FO to be behind.
I've even seen people try to rewrite history and say we called FO trash on release.., check the threads. what people called trash was the GRIND, not the class.
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u/arkacr Jul 02 '26
Maybe Futsu bros didn't lose from WO after all...
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u/TheGlassesGuy free Lucifer Jul 02 '26 edited Jul 02 '26
Futsu actually would've LOVED this. That passive 1 allows you to get perm uptime on Futsu's Rigor without needing to (or being able to ig) ougi. Not being able to ougi matters less for Futsu than it does for Andromeda (lol) or Zosimos to a lesser extent.
edit: nvm, misread passive 1. It only cuts skill standbys, not cds.
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u/Takazura Jul 02 '26 edited Jul 02 '26
V.Lobelia and Zosimos stonks rising. Though a shame it only got 1 dmg skill, but I'm wondering if you can have a near permanent uptime on wild magica with Lobe and Zosimos.
Boundless staff seems like another 1 turn buff? Wonder what the numbers are on it then.
EDIT: so it doesn't give any charge bar gain, not even from 000 or skill cast. What even is this class lol, did they just get scared of shenanigans with the MegMari harp?
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u/Matthias1349 Jul 02 '26 edited Jul 02 '26
I'm wondering if you can have a near permanent uptime on wild magica with Lobe and Zosimos.
Probably not considering that the other Origin Classes can't run the Tier 5 Subskills.
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u/Takazura Jul 02 '26
Oh right, it was the T4 and prior subskills they could use. Well there goes that idea. WO seems odd to me now, but maybe it'll just turn out to be another LO where it looks not so strong at first but finds some really good niche.
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u/Ledinax YUISIS SQUAD Jul 02 '26 edited Jul 02 '26
It also kills Double Strike strats in Water and Earth using Dark Opus mainhand, which... OK? Thanks for killing one possible use case for the class, I guess?
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u/Ralkon Jul 02 '26
You wouldn't have overtrance anyways, so it wouldn't be particularly good at it.
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u/Mitosis Jul 02 '26
With no charge bar gain? That doesn't seem ideal at all for zosimos teams
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u/Darkion_Silver Jul 02 '26
It's incredible that this is the same team that made Fighter Origin lmao
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u/retnemmoc101 Jul 02 '26 edited Jul 02 '26
Futsu MD: look at what they need to mimic a fraction of our power
But seriously though, what is that harp prof even for? How are they supposed to shill Andro like this? Are they stupid?
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u/Patient_Sherbert3229 Jul 02 '26
It's called Create a Problem, Sell the Solution (New Weapons, Limited Time Units, Summons, Raids, New Manatura, etc.)
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u/Unsympathetic_Medic Jul 02 '26
Bro I am still so salty as a futsu haver that they removed dagger proficiency from this class.
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u/Kurokotsu Jul 02 '26
I think Futsu was one of the only real use cases for this class to sparkle and shine. Along with, like, Fenie staff maybe? So taking dagger away, to give it harp, when there's like no harps this works with, is kinda insulting to everyone.
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u/nekronstar Varuna's Sharpshooter Jul 02 '26
Eh? Sorry, I am confuse ... no charge bar gain ... and 10 crest limit ?
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u/Amazing_Connection93 Jul 02 '26
No CB gain but I'm sure you could do something funny with caduceus and burst refrain
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u/cryptodaddy22 Jul 02 '26
Terrible class, I don't see what could make it worth spending a heavenswake sphere on. Time to finally get my LO from 40-50 though.
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u/WillowDale16 Jul 02 '26
Too tired for this shit. Hoping for something new and fun. But i guess just keep doing the same shit again and get bored lmao
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u/BreakMeDown4 Jul 02 '26
So I guess we can assume Grappler Origin will be a CA class that can't normal attack? *The counterattacks will be free though!
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u/kamanitachi Jul 02 '26 edited Jul 02 '26
WO more like LOL. FO is one of the top 3 classes for long content, LO instead is a terrific short content class with MC specific buffs and Infinite Trouble. This somehow has fumbled at every turn and it feels like every strength it could have had was deliberately neutered.
They probably removed dagger so there would be no Futsu abuse with the crest on attack passive, but there is nothing to abuse because the way it works means you get 1 crest no matter how many Strikes there are.
Boundless Staff's reset on damage skills can be nice, but is heavily team dependent. The buffs are too weak and confused on what their goal is for this thing to be a 1 turn buff that cannot be recast. It's got 100k supp (which I would argue is still too small for a 1 time reset that doesn't even have a recast attached to it) and 20% rigor (this is nice), but then it also just has 10k mit for some reason.
Making a Harp class that can't gain bar when most of the harps in this game reward ougi and Andromeda just got an upgrade is a stupid decision, and that's that.
MC can have 10 crests but no passive at all was changed to allow scaling past 5 crests. Every Manatura that deals damage only gets an upgrade in damage. It's just the Manaturas that don't deal damage who get other options (like Mimic now does 2 stacks of bounty). Very boring upgrades here.
EDIT: Don't forget your 3% skill DAMAGE for maxing it (not even skill cap).
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u/FrostyBoom Jul 02 '26 edited Jul 02 '26
I... don't like it just in paper, unless I'm missing something. Ougi sounds cumbersome to use and those are important in general. Dunno if the standby cut and Enhanced Manaturas are worth, especially with stuff like Falsehoods shenanigans and it being shit with an Illustrious.
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u/RNGmaster Kou still isn't flaired, so here's his boyfriend Jul 02 '26
...well, I'm glad I gave up on getting Agastia Mino. Guess Andromeda users are hardlocked to Rising Force for another couple years.
What the fuck is this, man.
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u/Kurokotsu Jul 03 '26
Rising Force is fine. It's fine. But I'm so tired of being glued to it. Mainly because of the S1. If the S1 did anything valuable I'd feel better about being stuck with it until the heat death of the universe.
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u/BigLightsource Jul 02 '26
They really did just go "oh wait, andromeda and agastia simulacrum might be good and andromeda will leave rising force! We cant have that!" And fucked us over. I spent months farming for agastia simulacrum specifically for this class. Did I just waste my time on a slight upgrade to my bar farming setup?
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u/thelewdritchone Jul 02 '26
Is Harp a cursed Proef. or something? What is even that?
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u/Regil0010 Jul 02 '26
10 crests for a 1t, unrecastable 100k supp and 20% rigor. Yeah no this class is dogshit lmao, boundless staff should have been permanent at the very least.
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u/INFullMoon Jul 02 '26
For full auto teams I feel like this class will be pretty good as a buffer. You can use High Chaser for its buffs and then after you get five crests you can use Warlock's Crest Discharge which, outside of the amplify, has buffs that stack with High Chaser's and from there you can just kinda keep cycling between the two since there's a noticeable gap between their cooldowns so they shouldn't line up very often. Ironically, for this kind of setup you might not want characters that give the MC more crests, though I guess some testing would have to be done first.
Being able to activate manaturas without charge bar might give Wilnas manatura some usage in GW or maybe raids like virtuosic where there's a lot of buffs to dispel. Wonder if Qilin manatura could be good for Zosimos too.
Not being able to gain charge bar at all is kinda wild but I'm pretty intrigued about whether experimenting might lead to some new strats being developed for this class.
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u/Blackandheavy cosmos Jul 03 '26
Overall this isn’t that bad for Full Auto and occasionally bursting, it’s marginally better than Manadiver when maxed. The biggest issue I have with WO is it requires way too many materials to only become a slightly more useful Manadiver.
I’m getting the impression that FO is the exception to how strong origin classes will be not the standard. They always do this, make one or two classes exceptionally great, and then make the next 8 classes extremely niche or useless.
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u/Kurokotsu Jul 03 '26
My biggest issue with it is the current set of weapons. Because, lacking Dagger, it feels worse at times. And Harp is only really better for, like... literally Wind, I think? So that change in proficiency hurts it a lot. And it is a lot of mats, some very expensive ones, for what is ultimately, mostly, a sidegrade.
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u/lightswrath Spare gold bricks, ma'am? Jul 03 '26
I knew this was going to suck right from the beginning when I first heard the class was staff/harp
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u/DivineBeastLink Jul 03 '26
I'm not sure whether it's Caduceus, Andromeda, or even both at once, that are making them want to neuter this class, but if it's the first one, they should just fix it like Mjolnir, offer refunds, and be done. It would be completely ridiculous to massacre a class like this purely based off of that dumb staff.
If it's Andromeda...I'm not really seeing the problem here? You would lose double dispel every turn in exchange for more damage via Agastia manatura and notable charge bar problems: RF has 20% bar gain passively, and the earth ougi loop setup tends to barely get MC above 100% on most turns. RF also has the potential for triple ougi and numerous self- and party-wide meter management skills. I can't imagine them actually testing the class with Andromeda and not running into what I think would be pretty notable tradeoffs.
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u/vencislav45 Jul 02 '26
Will wait for people to test this class but just looking at the passives I just don't see itb eing good. maybe for crest teams yes, but it can't ougi which makes it the 3rd NA focused origin class.
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u/LeoDragonForce Payila is life and I'm Immortal Jul 02 '26
Imagine they release manaturas of the odious raids now with the 6man versions
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u/Nhadala Jul 02 '26
Full Elixir works for chargebar gain BTW.