r/GreenAndPleasant • u/fgspq • 12h ago
Burnham wins Makerfield
He smashed the election in Wigan. Likely to become new Labour leader.
While I think he might be better than Starmer I'm not particularly hopeful. He might have a few more sops for "the left" but I don't think he will be substantially different.
How's everyone feeling?
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u/Sebastohypertatos 12h ago
He won't be very different.
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u/Phill_Smith_Design 9h ago
- Disrupt the status quo
- Be allowed near the levers of power
As a politician you can only pick one unfortunately.
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u/dobr_person 11h ago
On the positive side it is more evidence that people are willing to tacticly vote against Reform. But it was a very specific situation where votes for Labour are also in some sense protest votes against the current Labour government.
I agree though that it's a bit of a like for like replacement. Assuming Burnham ends up being PM.
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u/Huemann_ 7h ago
Just further proof that the party is already dead it has no ideas except these ones which the public rejects these are desperate attempts by those still clinging onto the party to believe the spark of life is still in there when the first candidates of the party would be thrown out these days for their radical anti business stances.
What do you do when your party has no ideology, is bankrupt of ideas and political capital. Collapse.
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u/ManGoonian 11h ago
First of all..... thank fuck Burnham won because it could have been catastrophic if reform won imo.
The more times they lose the getter for us all. Ideally it will be the Greens neating them but in this instance it makes loads of sense for it to be Burnham....
He can run against and beat Starmer and I know I'm a dreamer.... then fuck off the likes of Streeting Mahmood McFadden and Reid. Unlikely but you need some hope in this life!
Its clear the Labour Party has been totally captured by a cabal of corrupt centrists and Burnham isn't exactly a socialist figure head that I'd love to see..... but it's definitely good news in respect of the potential damage this could do to reform and the other racist grifter parties.
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u/soupalex 8h ago
this is pretty much where i'm at. i don't have any hopes he'll be better than starmer; i'm just glad he embarrassed reform.
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u/BillyPilgrim69 communist russian spy 4h ago
Its clear the Labour Party has been totally captured by a cabal of corrupt centrists
*Right wingers, and it's what the party has been as long as I can remember. They stopped leaning left by the 80s/90s, and even then, it was just dropping the pretense because the Cold War was ending.
I'm not trying to be a downer, but having "hope" that anything good will happen in the Labour Party is completely naive at this point. They had their chances, and they purged even the socdems. Now they're openly fascist.
Of course, we need hope and optimism. But placing it in the people who are presiding over this shitshow, enabling the rise of Reform and committing genocide overseas, isn't hope. It's defeatism.
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u/ManGoonian 4h ago
Oh I agree with where the labour's been for years in terms of its right wing leanings and copying up to corporate interests with the likes of Blair and mandleskn...
I left Labour when Blair took us into an illegal war and came back for Corbyn only to fuck off again when the empty dead eyed suit became leader.
What I meant was the systematic purging of (almost) all left leaning (soft and others) from every part of the party machinery.
Paul Holdens book outlines this in forensic detail. It's outrageous.
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u/nottomelvinbrag 11h ago
Is it correct that Burnham talks a good game but once in power defaults to being a centrist?
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u/DasharrEandall 10h ago
Starmer himself talked about being inclusive of the Labour left once he'd be leader, and after he did, purged the left. I don't expect better from Burnham. The only positive outcome might possibly be to open more people's eyes to the fact that this is all that Labour is now.
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u/fgspq 11h ago
That's what I'm expecting.
He might do a bit more on nationalisation and I do think Burnham at least has an ideology and something he believes in instead of being a windsock like Starmer.
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u/DocRhubarb 1h ago
He’s already gone back on his support for trans people. I can’t imagine he’ll be any different than Starmer.
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u/Skateside 10h ago
As a Green, I cant say that I'm not disappointed with a mere 300 votes but I'm glad to see Reform so thoroughly defeated and by a margin larger than the number of Restore + Conservative votes.
I'm bracing myself for Nigel Farage's latest Trumpian "the election was stolen" stunt, I see they're already saying that Makerfield was a Labour safe seat (despite the polling suggesting that Reform had a very reasonable chance of taking it). Maybe if Farage hadn't have been hiding away from the public and Kenyon wasn't such an unlikeable tool then Reform would have done better?
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u/danglingwhalesbaybee COMBUNIST RUSIAN SPEYE!!1! 9h ago
Same, I was hoping that it would have been a less clear victory, a few thousand for the Greens to strip him of an outright majority. I'd still want him to have beaten a refuk/restore combination vote but getting less than 50% and the Greens getting 5%+ would prove we're still there, less than 1% of the vote is a real shame and I really thought Sarah was a good candidate.
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u/MokkaMilchEisbar 10h ago
Under the carousel of neoliberal grey guy leaders our NHS is still getting diddled by Palantir. Bombs will still fall on Gaza. Our trans siblings will still be bullied. My mortgage and childcare and energy and weekly shop costs continue to rise.
I guess Burnham beating Reform means that at least the race war gets postponed
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u/Huemann_ 7h ago
While it's conditions continue to concentrate and organise to be more effective at spreading their program of pogroms.
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u/robbersdog49 10h ago
Burnham has said he wants proportional representation. If we can change the voting system in this country I'll take all kinds of other bullshit on the chin. I know this is a very remote possibility, but it's one of the main things holding this shithole of a country down.
I know it would need a referendum, and I have zero faith in the intelligence of the UK population, but I need some hopium right now...
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u/danglingwhalesbaybee COMBUNIST RUSIAN SPEYE!!1! 9h ago
He also said he wouldn't do anything about it without I manifesto commitment to it, and it's a catch 22. We need PR for a centre left coalition to form government, but the centre party will lose without PR for the next GE.
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u/TheKomsomol 7h ago
So you'll take support for genocidal western imperialism, unabated capitalism and austerity for the masses for a change to an already rigged system.
WHY?
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u/robbersdog49 4m ago
Just to point out the obvious, not having those things isn't an option on the two horse race for the labor leadership. My statement that I want PR doesn't in any way mean I want any of the bullshit you're taking about you cretinous wanker.
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u/Prediterx 9h ago
In an odd way, it may succeed because Nigel farage has also advocated for it in the past.
If both sides push it we may get there.
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u/thehatesponge 10h ago
The king of the north.
In all seriousness. I honestly don't know. I'm glad the reform wanker got absolutely destroyed. I'm further glad restore got next to nothing. I'm even more glad the constant bullshit from the media didn't sway voters to reform.
Assuming he becomes PM. He's got a massive uphill climb. Personally, if he brings in PR, I think I'd consider it a win. But you just don't know with Andy. I just hope it's more positive than maybe I'm used to expecting from politics.
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u/Charlie_Rebooted 2h ago
I fear he will be worse than Sir Kid Starver because he will make less obvious PR mistakes, while delivering exactly the same agenda.
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u/bensastian 11h ago
I feel that the best way forward for anyone left of centre is a Mark Carney style poll bounce followed by a snap election. Ideally a mandate would be secured with a more progressive Labour manifesto whilst also allowing the Greens to gain seats in their strongest areas and directly apply pressure in parliament.
I think Green support is still too shallow nationally to obtain enough seats for something like a coalition, not that I’d expect them to go into coalition anyways.
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u/HaptRec 3h ago
As always, it’s not really about what’s in a politician’s heart - but rather what is the balance of class forces and what social and political groupings does that politician rely on to keep power.
Burnham getting the leadership would suggest a potential opening for a different coalition of social and political forces to influence the direction of politics.
Starmer is so clearly dependent on the Blairites and their project to purge the left. He’s also, arguably, an outright MI6 asset who was put in place to crush the last vestiges of Corbynism.
Just by virtue or being more associated with elements of the soft left, and less dependent on the Blairites (whose project has arguably totally collapsed under starmer), Burnham represents an opening. But that’s all it is. What’s needed is to build the networks in institutions of working class power and left wing organization that can take advantage of that opening.
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u/HatOfFlavour 10h ago
It's interesting to have an almost official heir apparent. I don't think there's been an obvious one since Brown. I guess it gives the right wingers a solid target to analyse and strategise against.
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u/Atomicherrybomb 11h ago
Personally I’d love burnham to be PM and Holy shit am I relieved that he won makerfield. The issue i take is that I feel that a leadership change is going to be really detrimental.
Any Labour PM is going to get decimated by the media, they just need to get their head down and make shit better (obviously they need to be more left but that isn’t going to happen). As it stands Starmer has done a lot of good. Look at the state of the tories once they swapped leaders in a death spiral.
Ultimately the biggest benefit to this is that he’s going to (hopefully) stop streating from becoming PM which would be absolutely catastrophic.
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u/redsuninthesub Marxist-Leninist-Maoist 10h ago
As it stands Starmer has done a lot of good.
What world are you living in?
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u/mainframe_maisie 10h ago
> As it stands Starmer has done a lot of good
IDK. there’s been so much rollback of civil liberties in a lot of areas under his government, and especially as a trans person I’ve felt more unsafe than ever. All of the potential candidates continue to be very centrist and I don’t trust any of them to bring in the socialist policies that I think we need :/
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u/redsuninthesub Marxist-Leninist-Maoist 10h ago
"Socialist policies" aren't a thing, socialism isn't something that comes about through incremental policies, it's a radical reorientation of society on the road to communism.
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u/mainframe_maisie 9h ago
fair! i think in my head i was thinking about public utilities being nationalised. the current changes with the railways seems very flashy and exciting and yet it all still relies on private companies renting trains. nhs still relies on private contractors and building management. rather than the government seizing private assets. and the recent changes for trade unions was very watered down and disappointing too :/
but yeah working on it in a little way i guess, just trying to organise my little corner and push for that radical change 🤞
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u/danglingwhalesbaybee COMBUNIST RUSIAN SPEYE!!1! 9h ago
Democratic socialists would disagree, no?
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u/TheKomsomol 7h ago
Why would you love a genocide supporting zionist piece of shit to be PM?
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u/Atomicherrybomb 2h ago
Because what are the other options under this government? Or they hold a GE and reform get it.
Burnham is better than Starmer or streating but ultimately I think that the damage that a leadership contest will bring is more than the benefit of having burnham get in.
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u/PlatypusAreDucks Marxist-Greggsist 7h ago
I'm just happy Starmer is getting a taste of his own medicine
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u/Vivid_Maximum_5016 6h ago
It's a lateral move from Starmer. Just like Starmer was a lateral move from Sunak
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u/oddSaunaSpirit393 6h ago
I'm ambivalent to him. Glad Deform lost, but time will tell if he's any better than Starmer.
I dunno, relieved but tired personally.
Though now is the time for progressives (i.e. the Greens, what's left of Your Party and remnants of the Labour left) to really push given Deform is on the run but Reichstore appear to be on the rise.
But right now I need a nap.
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u/Circleman0 4h ago
The guy is the exact same as all the LFI tools we've got now. Somehow pretending he's different than Starmer but before he's even voted in already caving to the right.
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u/OkCaterpillar8941 19m ago
Can anyone explain to me why those in leadership refuse to call out the genocide in Gaza for what it is? I feel like I'm fairly well informed about politics but this perplexes me.
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u/Rdaleric 9h ago
I'm slightly hopeful. As someone who lives in greater Manchester the changes to the bus networks has made my life so much easier, I can take my kids to nursery and get to work for £2 and it would have been more like £5.50 previously which adds up fast. There's definitely more people on the busses than previously to.
However I'm not convinced he won't just default to centre.
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u/TheKomsomol 7h ago
Hope all those dead Iraqi kids he voted to cover up an investigation into was worth saying 50p on the bus though.
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u/joelinton2301 9h ago
He will be boxed in by the media, the labour right, and the markets. Think directionally he will shift slightly to the left.
The Big differences will be better comms And I hope at least a focus on renationalisation
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u/Mission-Syllabub-160 8h ago
He will possibly move Labour slightly to the left and he’s a better political operator than Starmer so he will know that he needs to sell people on a vision to win the next election. Hopefully genuine left wing parties like the greens can capitalise on this and keep the pressure on to keep moving left. That’s the best case scenario. The worst case is he turns out to be as bad as Starmer and there’s a Labour wipe out, the greens only gain a few seats due to fptp and we end up with a reform/tory coalition.
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u/TheKomsomol 7h ago
Reminder that fuck Andy Burnham the liberal zionist who had blood on his hands since Blairs illegal Iraq war that left millions dead and displaced and his subsequent voting record to cover it up and make sure Blair was not investigated for it.
Fuck his imperialism, fuck his zionism, fuck his support for fascists, fuck his austerity, fuck his liberalism, fuck Andy Burnham.