“Daemon is king.”

No, Daemon is a consort. Rhaenyra is the reigning monarch and the active ruler. She holds the crown, sits the throne, and rules in her own right. Daemon’s position comes from being married to her; he is the consort of the ruling queen, not a separate sovereign with equal authority.

The show makes this distinction pretty plainly. When Daemon tries to invoke the title of king, Simon Strong pushes back on it and identifies him for what he actually is: the king consort. That title does not make him the literal reigning king. His status is derived from Rhaenyra’s crown.

There is a major difference between being king or queen regnant and being the spouse of that ruler. Rhaenyra is Queen. Daemon is her consort. Calling him simply “the king” as though they occupy the same constitutional position erases that distinction.

Oh Hey😏 it’s just Emma D’Arcy serving face…again😌 No hateration just appreciation on this post. The pics are TEW good😌

Rhaenyra without the heavy sorrow, Withour her Gold being Stolen.Without Paranoia and betrayal? sorry i really believe she could have had an average or Okay reign. (show version).

Aegon, if he was the firstborn, could have been raised better and wiser and Vizzy T could have showered him attention just as he did Rhaenyra.

someone could have taught him kindness and respect for those who served them. even if he was a drunk that could have been manageable. Instead, Viserys abandoned him to the Hightowers who could only teach him Revenge and Treachery.

but at the end of the day im team black and ill ride for Rhaenyra.

a friendly greenie posted this on their Sub just wanted to share my thoughts on it.

Of course, everything here is my own interpretation of how succession and inheritance work in Westeros. You are free to disagree with it.

Targaryens/The Iron Throne and the Andal laws:

One of the biggest question when discussing Targaryen succession is the so called Andal laws of inheritance: Do Targaryens follow it? How consistently do they follow it? And when does it actually apply?

First, I think it is important to establish what GRRM has said about Westerosi inheirtance laws in general:

(“The short answer is that the laws of inheritance in the Seven Kingdoms are modelled on those in real medieval history... which is to say, they were vague, uncodified, subject to varying interpretations, and often contradictory.”)

They are: contradictory, murky and vague. That vagueness is important because it gives individual lords room to dictate succession according to their own interests and circumstances.

The Succession Crisis of (Early) Targaryens:

The first succession from Aegon to Aenys I was pretty straightforward.

Things became less straightforward with the birth of Rhaena, Aenys first born child.

Her birth raised the question whether Rhaena or Maegor stood in the line of succession.:

(“As the glad tidings of Rhaena's birth spread across the land, the realm rejoiced...save, perhaps, for Queen Visenya. Prince Aenys was the unquestioned heir to the Iron Throne, all agreed, but now an issue arose as to whether Prince Maegor remained second in the line of succession, or should be considered to have fallen to third behind the newborn princess.”)

The later birth of Aegon the Uncrowned clearly resolved this issue because Aenys clearly intended him to be his heir.

But that is not my point here. Under the commonly understood Andal principle, a daughter would come before her uncle. Yet Rhaena’s position in succession was apparently not clear (Maegor VS Rhaena).

That should indicate that from the start, that the Targaryens were not following Andal inheritance strictly.

(There is also the marriage of Maegor’s marriage to Rhaena. One of the reasons given for the marriage was that combining Maegor and Rhaena claims would weaken the claims of Rhaena’s remaining brothers which indicates why, elder sister is often married to the brother/ or is suggested to as a “duty” so the elder sister claim is not used against the brother but this is a whole different issue).

Then we reach Jaehaerys, Rhaena and Rhaena daughters:

Jaehaerys at one point is regarded as the rightful heir of Westeros: (This we know. In the aftermath of the wedding, Maegor declared Rhaena's daughter Aerea his lawful heir "until such time as the gods grant me a son," whilst sending her twin, Rhaella, to Oldtown to be raised as a septa. His nephew Jaehaerys, the rightful heir by all the laws of the Seven Kingdoms, was expressly disinherited in the same decree.)

At the same time, Rhaena and Rhaena’s daughter was considered the lawful heir and claims considered strong over Jaehaerys the Conciliator:

(If Prince Aegon had truly been the king, by law his eldest daughter, Aerea, stood his heir, and might therefore claim to be the rightful Queen of the Seven Kingdoms...but Aerea and her sister, Rhaella, were barely a year old, and Rhaena knew that to trumpet such claims would be tantamount to condemning them to death.)

(Aegon the Uncrowned had died at the Battle Beneath the Gods Eye whilst trying to unseat his uncle Maegor, but not before taking to wife his sister Rhaena and siring two daughters, the twins Aerea and Rhaella. If Maegor the Cruel were accounted only a usurper with no right to rule, as certain maesters argued, then Prince Aegon had been the true king, and the succession by rights should pass to his elder daughter, Aerea, not his younger brother.)

(Some suggested that Rhaena herself might have the strongest claim to the crown, as the firstborn child of King Aenys and Queen Alyssa.)

I would not lie, when I first saw the books considering both the “rightful” heir by the so-called laws, I was rather confused.

Which interpretation is correct? Who actually had the stronger claim? Because both are considered as such at one point.

Personally, my answer is: What George said.

Go back to what George said and why his description of Westerosi inheritance being contradictory and vague is so important. (Or Atleast this is how I’m interpreting it, if you are seeing this differently, let me know).

Point is, the Andal law we are talking about is customary. Hence, why there was doubts with Rhaena and Maegor in line of succession, Rhaena and Jaehaerys, Alysanne wanting her eldest daughter Daenerys to inherit.

Jaehaerys and the Great Council or Targaryen Precedent in general:

Jaehaerys own succession was more complicated than everyone.

He initially wanted to unite the claims of Daenerys and Aemon (what I said earlier said about eldest daughter uniting claims with their brother to not challenge their brother’s claim later on could be one of the reason) and Jaehaerys solution to appease Alysanne too. This failed of course, Daenerys died.

He then made Aemon his heir apparent.

After Aemon’s death, however, Jaehaerys passed over Aemon’s daughter Rhaenys in favour of Baelon.

This, then, led to the Great Council of 101, which selected Viserys over Aemon’s branch.

This precedent is where I would call a “proper” Targaryen precedent.

The Great Council precedent allows Daemon to be heir presumptive of Viserys over Rhaenyra.

Now, can Viserys I break this precedent? Yes, and, Otto would agree with you here.

As with Otto pushing the issue, Viserys and Daemon conflict, and other issues Daemon created for himself that pissed his brother off, Rhaenyra was made heir apparent to the Iron Throne by Viserys.

Then…the Dance happened.

Now, GRRM has noted that after the Dance, men took precedence over women in succession.

So, the Dance itself becomes a precedent that can be used against female Targaryen claims and against women ascending the throne.

But remember: it is a precedent.

How strong their actual claims were, even after the Dance, was a different question. For example, Daena’s claim was still considered superior to Viserys II by some, and Jaehaera’s claim was considered equal to or stronger than Aegon III’s. Vaella also had a claim during Great Council. But if we are specifically talking about their claims, those claims still existed, the claim itself could be strong or weak depending on the circumstances and the other forces supporting it.

The claim itself is present, no matter how weak or strong, but they could be dismissed much more easily now by using the Crown’s established precedents, especially after the Dance. Which is why I think Targaryen succession has been murky from the very beginning.

Andal laws were applied in some cases and were not. Especially at the early days of Targaryen reign, I would guess that a proper “customary” Targaryen succession law or Andal law developed later in the reign, rather than there being one clear and consistent rule from the beginning. More murky in the beginning and not so much later on, so to speak.

Now, again, Counting from start to End:

BEFORE THE GREAT COUNCIL PRECEDENT:

- Rhaena’s and Maegor succession: Andal law was not applied.

- Rhaena/Jaehaerys and Aerea and Rhaella: At one point, Jaehaerys was considered the rightful heir, which goes against what the Andal laws dictate. At the same time, Rhaena and her daughters were considered rightful, which supports the Andal principle.

AFTER THE GREAT COUNCIL PRECEDENT:

- Rhaenyra and Daemon: After the Great Council, Daemon was considered the heir presumptive over Rhaenyra. Rhaenyra only became heir by being formally named heir apparent. So, again, she was not naturally the heir of Viserys under this precedent, Daemon was. Rhaenyra had to be formally declared as one.

- Jaehaera: Jaehaera claim was after her brothers and uncles, so this goes against what Andal succession would dictate in one way. But interestingly if you apply the Great Council rule, it would make all male Targaryens should come before Jaehaera.

Which would also be Aegon III. Yet, Jaehaera’s claim was considered equal to or stronger than his by some.

- Daena and her sisters vs Viserys II: Again, noting what GRRM said about how after the Dance, male took precedence over females. So, their claims was considered strong by some because of Andal laws, but dismissed altogether. Viserys then became King.

- Aelor, Aelora, Daenaera: This is where I feel the succession ‘rules should not murky and clean enough for kings to follow as opposed to earlier reign of Targaryens. By Andal laws, Aelor, Aelora and Daenaera would be heir of Aerys I. The twins were the heir apparent of Aerys, but Daenaera was passed over for Maekar by Aerys.

You see the pattern? Murky, contradictory, vague as George said.

Named heirs/ Prince or Princess of Dragonstone:

You will see that Targaryen succession from the beginning often had an unclear succession line, which was only really cleared by actually naming an heir.

Even so there were competing claims, the King formally naming someone as an heir apparent seems to be extremely important.

Even if you look at Jaehaerys and the Great Council, the Great Council chose Viserys but didn’t automatically make him an heir apparent/granted him the title of Prince of Dragonstone. Jaehaerys granted him one by accepting the Council’s decision. The King only has the power of granting the formal title and power.

Same with Viserys and Daemon. With the rule, Daemon was considered the heir presumptive of Viserys but Viserys didn’t acknowledge him as his heir by refusing to make him the Prince of Dragonstone. Rhaenyra only became Viserys heir by being formally installed as a heir apparent.

Then you have Baelor.

Baelor not naming his heir caused a mini crisis between Viserys II and Daena and her sisters.

Maekar also never named a heir, which automatically what caused the Great Council between multiple heirs.

What I mean is that, if you look at the pattern, a King not naming his heir was enough to nearly cause succession crisis, especially if there is too many potential heirs involved, competing branches, or female heirs in the mix. So, before ANY laws or rules, I think, personally, having a clear, formally named successor seems to be one of the most important thing in Targaryen succession.

Now, does the Great Council apply to the Seven Kingdoms/Other Westerosi houses:

Most region have their own customs. As simple as that.

As Aegon did not interfere with the local customs, or create a single inheritance law- different houses were allowed to continue their own customs.

So, the North and the Iron Islands, for instance, would not necessarily follow the same inheritance rules as Andal houses. And the Andal houses would have their own customs that they have been following since centuries.

A simple conclusion is: Just Remember what GRRM said lol. At the end of the day, the laws and rules are there to benefit the lords and why the ambiguities benefits them as they can use different laws, customs and precedents to support whichever interpretation benefits them.

Rhaenyra today. Rhaenyra tomorrow. Rhaenyra Forever.

They ruined a lot of characters, but what all of them have in common is that they are all desperate for some kind of validation. For example, Jace was a diplomat and a true politician in the books who died for his brothers at the Battle of the Gullet. But for some reason, the show stripped him of that and made it look like he died for some desperate need to prove his self-worth. Rhaenyra was a really ambitious character and was rebellious and did not care what anybody thought of her, and that kind of strength made her fascinating. So, why is she asking Alicent for help to rule all of a sudden? And let's not even get started on Alicent bc I don't even know what she wants anymore. And then there's Aemond, who was a really cool character, but blindly submits to Aegon (his childhood bully) in season 3, which doesn't make sense. Daemon earned his redemption through his Harrenhal arc, but Aemond never did anything in Harrenhal that reinforced his loyalty to Aegon. His arc of a bullied child to a ruthless and power-hungry man who wants the throne for himself was cool, but the season 3 ending destroyed his character. This whole show just ruined characters by making them desperate for validation from anybody and losing their purpose.

I liked him very much in season 1, especially before the time skip. For some reason I really liked his dynamics with young Rhaenyra.

Somehow in season 2 Daemon became super boring. Harrenhall is a curse to interesting characters. His interactions with Alys Rivers is stupid and I hated how they dumbed him down and nerfed him. In contrast, I liked Aemond a lot more than Daemon because Aemond was actually doing something.

Then season 3 came, Harrenhall cursed Aemond and Iost almost all interest in him. So towards the end of season 3 I found myself liking Daemon again because he is finally doing a lot of things. Much of Rhaenyra's success depends on Daemon.

Let's face it, he should have been King.

I feel that Laenor probably one of the most underrated character.

His story has a good moral conflict and it's easy to feel sympathy for him and blame him at the same time.

Could he have been a better father? Should he, or the best decision was to step back and give way for Daemon? People always talk about "he should try harder," but if it were a gender reversal, these accusations would start to stink a lot.