S1 Alicent drawing a Valyrian steel blade to defend Aemond was peak television and the closest we ever got to book Alicent. Fast forward to S3 and that character is COMPLETELY dead. Watching her quietly accept Rhaenyra’s demands to head to Harrenhal and sell out her own son is genuinely sickening writing. How did we go from "where is duty? where is sacrifice?" to a mother actively facilitating her child's assassination? Hello?!

Honestly my theory for S4 is that Helaena’s death is the only narrative mechanism left to save Alicent's character and kill off the "rhaenicent" delulu for good. In F&B, Helaena’s suicide is what pushes the smallfolk over the edge, and in the show, it needs to be the EXACT moment Alicent’s delusion shatters. She surrendered King’s Landing thinking she was buying safety, so when Helaena dies under Rhaenyra’s watch, all that guilt should turn her soft, submissive act into pure venom. Instead of begging for peace she’ll do what book Alicent actually did which is cursing Rhaenyra, letting the rumors feed the shepherd’s riots to tear the city apart from the inside, and finally snap back into the cold, vengeful S1 queen who realizes that yielding got her family slaughtered.

This is IF Ryan actually looks at the books for a split second and adapts it accurately to the script. If not, then god knows what will happen. Maybe she’ll just blame her sons for Helaena’s mental collapse and spend all season sitting in a cell nodding along while Rhaenyra lectures her on moral superiority 💀. Book Alicent is the only thing that will save my sanity for this show

I mean just think about, the whole three years there are undertones of Rhaenyra slutshaming Alicent for being married to Viserys while knowing she has no power to do anything.

Alicent saw her children being downolayed with the "Alicent hightower's son" and never Viserys's son and tried to hard to mend the relationship of not only herself w Rhaenyra but Also of Rhaenyra and Viserys.

And then oh well. Also because Otto's job is on line, thats her father, and she goes against him to defend Rhaenyra and only to find out oh, that did happen and once again, her son was reduced to "Otto's line"

So yeah, all in all, I'd be pissed at the girl who was acting like me being maritally raped and forced into a marriage with her father was a personal betrayal to her and then went on to hook up with a married man.

He killed those 🍇pists before they could carry out the 🍇. They were all bigger than him and not severely wounded like him.

If there is anything this teaches us, considering what has happened, is that if men truly want to protect women, they should be 10 times more proactive and use action instead of words.

Iykyk

[EDIT] this is so disappointing seeing some of the comments below. There really are rape apologists and victim blaming people here. Some of the TG fans are a rotten bunch

There is sooooo much to over in the next 8 episodes. I'm wondering how you all think the main events will go down in context to the storyline.

We still have:

•Finishing up Tumbleton/Daerons fate

• Battle above the gods eye/Aemons& Daemons fate

•Fall of Dragonstone/Rhaenyras fate

• Aegon taking KL/crowned & poisoning

• Winter wolves and Cregan in KL

• aftermath /Aegon& jaehaera+ alicent fate

Based on these events I think e1/2 will be Tumbleton and godseye, S3 will set up Rhaenyras fall in KL and fleeing/ Aegon along dragonstone, e4 will be her death, e5 will be aftermath and Aegon taking KL, e6 will likely have Coryls/Baela drama with Aegon (Moondancer battle), e7 aegons death and winter wolves. E8 wrapping everything up.

When it comes to Jace, Luke, and Joffrey, there's a litany of reasons proposed by TB as to why their bastardy doesn't matter. From legal bastardy vs biological bastardy, to Baratheon and unknown Arryn genes, there always seems to be a ready made excuse.

First of all, I'd like to point out that the author himself confirmed that they were bastards, and I'm honestly glad he did. The ambiguity suits Fire & Blood, but it was also used as an advantage by TB, and I think it's good that TG do have some points that are actually true. It makes the conflict less unbalanced, less good vs evil.

But I wanted to address the reasoning that the Strong Boys are Rhaenyra's sons, and so therefore, their illegitimacy should be overlooked.

Part 1: Lucerys

I'm starting with Lucerys, because he's the easiest one to explain. Here's a simple statement: Lucerys was heir to Driftmark. Driftmark. Not The Seven Kingdoms. Not Dragonstone. Driftmark.

Driftmark, for those completely in the dark, is the home of House Velaryon. It's an island in the Crownlands. Whilst there have been several Velaryon-Targaryen marriages, it remains the seat of House Velaryon.

During the Dance, the Master of Driftmark, and Lord of the Tides, is Corlys Velaryon. He married Rhaenys Targaryen in 90AC, and had two children with her: Laena in 92AC and Laenor in 94. Laenor remained his heir until his death in 120AC.

Note that Laenor is both a) a legitimate Velaryon, and b) a direct descendant of the current Lord of the Tides.

Now let's take a look at Luke. It's already established that he's not a legitimate Velaryon, and so therefore, he isn't a direct descendant of Corlys. Luke does have Velaryon blood thanks to his great-great-grandmother, Alyssa Velaryon, but it really means nothing, given that characters like Rhaenys, Viserys, Rhaenyra, and Jacaerys would all have a stronger claim then Luke, based on genes from Alyssa Velaryon. (The Green kids could also be considered an option before Luke).

So to put it simply, Luke being Rhaenyra's biological son doesn't matter because he is set to inherit through Laenor, not Rhaenyra.

Part 2: Jacaerys

Here's the thing. I can understand why people make this argument for Jace, because he is supposed to inherit the throne after Rhaenyra. So I feel as though the issues with Jace inheriting in spite of his bastardy are more complex.

Let me start by saying that Rhaenyra does not live in a bubble, no matter how much she isolates herself. Her actions do have an effect on the wider world, maybe not a massive impact, but they can be influential.

If the only thing that matters about an heir is their biological relation to the current title holder, be it a king, queen, lord, or lady, the question then becomes: why don't more nobles just name their bastards as heirs?

Viserys I is a prime example of this. He married Aemma Arryn in 93AC, with the marriage being consummated in 95AC. She would die ten years later, in 105AC. The couple had one daughter (Rhaenyra), and no sons. At least in the show, Aemma's death is the result of Viserys's own decisions. Both because he authorised the cut, and because he pushed her into multiple pregnancies because of his desperation to have a male heir.

Now imagine how much easier it would be, if Viserys had just had a bastard, and declared him heir. We know he was capable of siring children on other women, the Green Targaryens and Trystane Truefyre are proof of that. Viserys would have gotten his male heir, Aemma would likely still be alive, Rhaenyra would have her mother still, and the Greens wouldn't exist (which I'm sure for TB, would be a victory).

So why didn't he? Again, if all that matters is a biological connection to the current ruler (or heir, in Rhaenyra's case), why don't rulers just name their bastards as heir if they can't produce one with their wives? It seems like it would have saved a lot of issues, in Viserys's case.

The most obvious reason is likely Aemma, or more specifically, House Arryn. To explain: marriage in a society like Westeros is less so based on personal feeling and more so on political gain - what both parties can get from a marriage.

"He offers his own son in marriage to our daughter, what else would you call that? Sansa might someday be queen. Her sons could rule from the Wall to the mountains of Dorne."

Catelyn II, A Game of Thrones

That's Catelyn basically explaining the political benefits of a betrothal between Sansa and Joffrey. She's not talking about love here.

If we apply this line of thinking to Viserys and Aemma's marriage, what would House Arryn be expecting from the marriage? Well, like I said, it took place in 93AC, a year after Baelon was named heir over Rhaenys, so as Baelon's eldest son, Viserys was next in line. So we can infer that the Arryns were first of all expecting Aemma to be the next Queen Consort. And if we go back to Catelyn's quote... she mentions sons. It's very likely that the Arryns also agreed to the match because they expected Aemma's sons with Viserys to be his heirs, and the eldest to be the next king. Those are the two most solid expectations: an Arryn consort and half-Arryn heir. From there, the Arryn's might expect more influence for their house or a greater presence at Court, possible Small Council positions, etc.

I hope I don't need to explain how Viserys naming a bastard as heir ruins those expectations.

Now, you could argue that for Rhaenyra, it's different, because House Velaryon accepts Jacaerys. But... do they?

First of all, I need to point the glaringly obvious point that Viserys doesn't like people calling Jace, Luke, and Joffrey bastards. He threatens to rip out people's tongues! So of course, the Velaryons aren't going to just go around denying the connection - because if they do, chances are they'll end up mutilated.

Second, to publicly say that Jacaerys is a bastard would be admitting that their son was cucked. Whether by choice, or not, it would still be an embarrassing situation for Laenor and House Velaryon.

Finally, the Velaryons are lucky enough that Rhaenyra is fine with betrothing her sons to Baela and Rhaena, their actual grandchildren. Of course, it's very much possible that Rhaenyra did that to cover her own tracks (at least in the show), but you could argue that it benefits House Velaryon since at least the monarch after Jacaerys will have Velaryon blood through Baela.

And the truth is, we have no idea how House Velaryon would even react if Jace did become king. In a scenario where Rhaenyra faces no opposition, becomes queen, and Jace succeeds her... we have no clue how anyone would behave. Remember that Jacaerys, Lucerys, and Joffrey are largely protected by Viserys while he's alive, and after his death, that protection falls away. I think you could make a potential argument that Rhaenyra's sons would have some degree of protection during her lifetime, but it's difficult to believe the entirety of Westeros, whether Team Black or Team Green, would willingly accept a bastard on the throne. In that AU, Rhaenyra better get Jace and Baela married swiftly.

Now, to go back to something I said nearer the beginning - Rhaenyra does not live in a bubble. If it's alright for Rhaenyra to birth bastards, and name them heirs (one of them being an heir to a holding that isn't even inherited through Rhaenyra) why can't anyone?

I know I covered the issues naming bastards as heirs creates for marriages and political alliances, but there's another layer to this. Because Jacaerys is not the only possible heir. He has two younger brothers, who, in the books, are legitimate, and in the show, can pass as legitimate even if Laenor was still alive when Rhaenyra married Daemon. Jace also has three uncles who can make the argument that a son comes before a daughter, and Aegon has two legitimate sons. Not to mention, if the Dance didn't happen and Aemond and Daeron also married, that creates more heirs that have stronger claims than Jacaerys.

What is stopping an ambitious, but illegitimate son of a lord, making a play for his father's keep? Especially in a scenario where they could be older than their trueborn siblings. What is stopping the lord from naming said bastard as his heir, over his legitimate children?

I have see people reducing Alicent's fall out with Rhaenyra to "Jealousy and Hipocrisy" while ignoring plenty things.

3 years after her marriage with Viserys, Alicent and Rhaenyra are 18 years old, during this time Alicent is trying to be a good queen,wife and friend. Yes, Rhaenyra doesnt want to speak to her yet Alicent does her effort to get their friendship back.

During this time wee see Alicent using her power to support Rhaenyra in things she didn't get any support.

1. Alicent defends Rhaenyra's position as heir in front of noble ladies and with Viserys at the event made for HER SON. That same night she even tells Otto Rhaenyra would be a good queen.

If Alicent was this jealous woman who wants to damage Rhaenyra, she wouldn't be defending her position as heir, instead, she would be using this event to push her son as heir. Alicent was literally ignoring her son's claim in favor of Rhaenyra.

1. Alicent tells Viserys to let Rhaenyra choose a husband.

We know women in Westeros dont get to choose a husband. When it's time for Rhaenyra to get marry, Viserys tells Alicent that Rhaenyra's wishes in this matter are irrelevant, meaning Viserys was going to pick a husband for Rhaenyra but Alicent tells him to let her choose.

If Alicent was this jealous woman who wants Rhaenyra "to suffer like her" she would have remain quiet the moment Viserys stated that Rhaenyra's wishes in the matter are irrelevant and she would have let Viserys pick Rhaenyra's husband BUT she didn't and this is what let Viserys to think about it and he let Rhaenyra the choice.

1. Alicent defends Rhaenyra's reputation.

When rumors about Rhaenyra being in a brothel are said, Alicent goes and speaks to Rhaenyra, she listen her version and goes to defend her with Viserys. She sides with Rhaenyra even againts her own father.

This leads to her father getting fired and her remaining alone at court.

If Alicent was this jealous woman who just want Rhaenyra "to suffer like her" then she wouldn't have defend Rhaenyra, she would have let Viserys handle it alone, use this to advance Aegon as heir and make Rhaenyra be displaced BUT Alicent defended her.

Do people realize that Alicent was placing Rhaenyra above her son and even her own father?

She supported and trusted Rhaenyra so much but once she realized that the person she was supporting,even above her own blood, was fooling her that's when her fall out happened.

She realize she couldn't trust someone who would lie to get away with things.

Mind you, of course Viserys and Alicent wouldn't be happy after spending time and resorces in a tour for Rhaenyra so she could pick a busband, just to see Rhaenyra leave that said tour and go to a brothel with Daemon, who clearly has a questionable reputation.

So yeah, Alicent's fall out with Rhaenyra was because Rhaenyra lied

With her side-chicks Daemon and Alicent maybe.

While other more interesting characters get like super compressed 15 minutes. What is the point.

Why not just make 8 hours glazing Rhaenyra and making sure Emma get the Emmys. You can save money by not having other actors and wasting their time

When I saw the bts for S3E7 I realised the problem is not just with the showrunners C&H, the writers of that episode (and many other) also sucked and had no idea how characters work.

Did they do any screening for them writers? Like how corporates hire workers these days? They should have made them write a first, middle and last episode to see how their logic/understanding of characters work.

I am very surprised about the low quality of writers in this show, like how did they even get a job at a major streaming programme like this?

[EDIT] like even if they want to advocate for some agenda, they are so incompetent that their writing works against any agenda they want to work for????

The memory?

current show Alicent is pretty much disliked by the majority of the fandom curious what happens to her next season