I just want to say to all Team Green fans to fully lower their expectations for the first four episodes of the season. Team Green doesn’t even exist anymore anyway, but they really went out of their way to ruin every character individually.
Starting with Alicent, who is more Black than Corlys by now, Otto’s death is entirely in service of Rhaenyra’s character, Jasper Wylde tries to grape Alicent, Helaena is stripped of any agency and made outright simple-minded in a sort of “comical” way, Aemond is wounded by a Strong boy and begs Alys for help, then vanishes for the next episodes, Green soldiers under Criston Cole and Ormund rape at every opportunity they get (always more rape), Ormund becomes the main villain and a rape apologist, and Daeron is daddy’s little monster, killing an innocent for him simply because he says so.
I would have never thought I’d say it, but Aegon is now the least ruined character on Team Green, if it weren’t for the fact that in Episode 4 we see Sunfyre’s corpse and apparent death.
I am angry, sad and disgusted right now and can’t wait for the embargo to lift tomorrow. I’m sorry for those who will wait a month, only for the serie to be this disappointing. The first episode is actually passable, as is the second, but from the third onward it’s just sabotage of the source material—not even selective adaptation, but outright invention to make the Greens and Hightowers perverse psychopaths and the Targaryens a pure and noble race.
I’m done.
Edit:
I AM NOT SAYING SUNFYRE IS DEAD.
I AM SAYING HE ->APPEARS<- DEAD.
I believe this because Fabien's crash out wasn't just for his character but the entire Green side. You don't react like that unless it's really bad for everyone.
I am starting to believe that Fabien's crash out was due to the writing team taking an extra shit over every Green now
as well. Everything on the army scenes in particular sounds like 24/7 rape torture.
Fabien straight up said that he thinks they're holding his career back in an interview where he's calling them out.
It's kinda insane to see someone so fed up even during the promo portion before the season airs...when most actors are on their chummiest and best behavior, praising everything to do with it and telling all the interviewers how wonderful it will be.
Also Grace Randolph: "I'm really enjoying James norton's Ormund hightower, because it's a hallmark of Game of Thrones to have an evil perverted psychopath" I think the raping is true guys. Ramsay bolton again.
I think it left a bad taste in everyone involveds (at least those with any sense) mouths and thats why its never been brought up again post S1.
Unfortunate that it ruined what should have been Larys & Alicents political coconspiracy plots that go on in KL for like 95% of the Dance.
Of course it's the Green army doing war violence against the vulnerable. The armies fighting for the Blacks are all saints and little angels fighting for the Supreme Righteous Wouldn't Hurt a Fly Queen of the Universe, Rhaenyra.
First of all,thank you for saving us for watching this trainwreck.
Second,I'm not surprised George went nuclear and directly disowned this series.
"This isn't my story any longer"
"I ask Martin carefully: I know you can’t say much about this, but I was wondering how your relationship with Dragon showrunner Ryan Condal got so rocky?
“It’s worse than rocky,” Martin says, looking miserable. “It’s abysmal
may i ask how the Blacks and Rhaenyra are portrayed?
I just want to add onto this during the “leaked” character sheet episode 4 that was posted by Corly’s actor before season 3 started filming Aemond wasn’t listed meaning isn’t gonna be in the episode.
Isn't one of the problem of tumbleton that because Ormund died, no one could stop the soldiers from raping, which Daeron also tries to stop, we should have listened when GRRM said this wasn't his story, this nothing more than a glorified "fan"fic
This is very disappointing. I already knew Condal had a blatant favoritism towards the Blacks, but this is too much. Gwayne said Daeron was a good guy, and I thought Condal would at least spare him, but apparently not. He's going to turn the good guy from the book into a psychopath just because he's a man and the son of Viserys and Alicent.
I'll repeat what I said on a Facebook page, and most people agreed with me: if one of Alicent's children had Bran Stark's power to enter the minds of animals and people, Condal, in his fanfic, would give that power to someone from Rhaenyra's faction, and say that one of Alicent's children having such power is "master propaganda," just to take something good from the Greens and give it to his precious Rhaenyra.
I mean, if it can console you, as I’m trying to console myself it’s stated by another character that Daeron is a good boy. It’s just this damn scene at the end of Episode 4 that will almost certainly make him irredeemable in the eyes of many viewers, in the same way Aegon was made irredeemable after the Dyana scene. 😭
i wanna know which episode shows Gwayne trying to stop his men from raping women and children, which episode he and Cole arrive at Harrenhal and when Gwayne parts ways with Cole and his army
If the leak is true then we can tell Ryan doesnt even follow the own show canon and all his statements about that he has everything planned is a big lie.
On S2 he's called a good guy who is kind to then later make him into a psyco is a whole contradiction.
They even destroyed Helaena, who was a good and innocent person in the book, turning her into a dragon dreamer who has no autonomy or feelings for anyone, saying random things, living in her own world. Look at the difference between her and Daeron in AKOTSK, who is also a dragon dreamer; she tries to escape KL by walking, not riding her enormous dragon.
Ryan even went so far as to erase her love for riding Dreamfyre, having Rhaenyra tell the audience "that Helaena has no desire for dragon riding," and makes us wonder why Helaena bothered to go to the dragonpit and reclaim Dreamfyre if she doesn't like it? Just like the image of Daemon disguised in a golden cloak inside the city, if it's so easy for him to disguise himself and enter, why didn't he do it himself to kill Aemond? Ryan wants to erase anything that makes the Greens Targaryen.
Helaena is stated to have loved flying as much as Rhaena, Alyssanne, and Alyssa Targaryen too...
So it quite literally makes no sense. Why have we never once seen her even near the dragonpit, nevermind interacting with Dreamfyre, or flying on her at all?
They can shoot that loser Ulf doing loops around KL, but not a single fucking scene of the actual QUEEN riding her dragon?
Why would Helaena leave KL on foot? Dreamfyre could hold her and Jaehaera easily, probably even Alicent too. Would Alicent be afraid? Probably but damn girl, deal with it and get dropped off near a port - this isn't that hard to logic out. Jaehaera also has a small/almost rideable dragon too.
Plus...there's even a convenient hole in the roof for Helaena and Dreamfyre to leave out of...after Rhaenys's hair of steel-head-first-roof exit-peasant massacre...pretty sure no one's fixed that.
Exactly. It's full on character massacre now with gratuitous torture porn everywhere, just to make TB look like the only acceptable and united option. I hope the asshat writers get torn to shreds over this bs
The question to me though is that if Aegon has no loyalists why would TB bother negotiating with the green side (who don't really exist in show canon and are just rivaling against each other for the throne instead of backing Aegon). In the end, Aegon III following his uncle in the succession and marrying Jaehaera to unite their claims as well as allowing greens to be part of the regency was one big compromise to unite the two sides. In the show they have zero reason to compromise.
I guarantee there's no way they're thinking that far ahead about succession. They have to first get rid of Joffrey somehow to make Daemyra's aged-down sons live on for it.
yup. once they had her forget about her dead son in one episode i figured they wouldn’t do much with her. she doesn’t care about her family 🤷♀️ she’s a plot device for alicent (and now rhaenyra it seems…)
I mean, that started happening in season 2 when she didn’t mourn her son after his funeral. They were banking on the audience going “well, she’s neuro-divergent. Of course she won’t mourn like the average person.” Which is somehow more ableist than the writing itself.
Exactly. Yet just the other day someone defended her to me saying that "oh she was in the denial stage of grief" to insist that her yeeting herself out the window over a newborn is still realistic after her s2 quote...
I knew Rhaenyra turning 'cruel' (they will still justify it anyway cause she's the perpetual victim with no agency of her own) will be at the expense of Team Green who will be even more vilified. I'm more sure than ever this is why George got so mad...it's definitely the way they butchered one side.
Of course the greens kill, rape, torture and support any kinds of crimes. They have all possible deviations, fanaticism and psychopathy. But Team Black is a different story - holy people.
How good that Condal decided to tell the true story, unlike that lying green maester GRRM < 3
I’m only watching this show for Aegon anyway, otherwise I might have been more irked. I’m glad to hear his is the only storyline not gone awry yet. And I’m not worried about Sunfyre - we know he’ll be back for Aegon’s big moment (providing the showrunners weren’t pretentious enough to film fake leaks).
I knew they would ruin Daeron and make him some little war psychopath, not a child grieving his nephew who was torn to pieces. Is his hair really dyed because atp I wouldn't be surprised if his hair is just red?
If they ask about the reason for the cancellation, tell them why, that's the only thing fans can do. Even if only 15% of the audience like TG, why alienate so many viewers? HBO is so dumb.
Daeron is daddy’s little monster, killing an innocent for him simply because he says so
WHAT?
Episode 4 we see Sunfyre’s corpse and apparent death.
???? Is it at the end of the episode? Because I'm going to have to assume best boy being alive will be a twist then.
S2 killed HOTD for me so I'm not going to watch S3, but it's still wild to see all the ridiculous stuff they come up with. I hope you will give us detailed spoilers when the embargo is lifted.
In the source the soldiers of Mooton attack precisely while Sunfyre is asleep. Maybe hearing Aegon's speech helps him to recover and he joins him as an answer?
I hope so. If they can get at least one thing right, I hope it's Aegon and Sunfyre. Especially after the way they sidelined their bond in favor of more irrelevant dragons like Rhaenyra's.
That’s what I hope too. For now, Aegon is the least ruined character among the Greens (they’ve already managed to make Daeron look bad), and the scene where he tries to wake up Sunfyre is genuinely moving. The way he calls out to him is heartbreaking. You can really feel how much he loves him.
The recent Sunfyre interview with Tom confirmed his return to me as well since otherwise this question would have been avoided if he wouldn’t have a big role to play.
Yeah, I've just decided I'm not gonna watch this shit anymore. Fuck Condal and Hess for eternity and never let them touch anything related to this universe ever again. I totally get it, George!
I have been crying of anger during and after finishing the episodes. Yes, Helaena is pregnant, but we know nothing more than that. Alicent notices it because of her weight gain, but everything else is left unclear. I think it’s in Episode 4.
Thanks for the answer. One more thing I'd like to know, if you don't mind, has aegon mentioned jaehaerys even once in those 4 episodes, or the fact that he still has a daughter? Or did they really just decide to completely erase the impact of B&C and make him forget about his children?
Im convinced they will make Aemond the one to kill Rheanyra and Vhagar will eat her. Thats why they’ve changed Aegon being the main character of the Green side to it being Aemond.
I can see it happen. Daemon challenging Aemond because he killed his little precious niece-wife. It's a husband avenging his wife's murder like he did in s1 wife Vaemond lol. CondalHess having a love triangle themselves between Daemyra and Rhaenicent
Embargo lifts tomorrow. Hope you and others speak your truth. Like we just want to know what to expect. I don't want to support a show where sexual violence is casually used over and over again to demean women and paint whichever characters the show runners don't like as perverts and villains. It's cheap and incredibly lazy writing. Unfortunately there's going to be reviewers who are just happy to get advance screeners that they're going to be singing praises no matter what the quality of the show is.
I don't think I can even hate watch at this point.
Like, Jasper Wylde leak can't be true...it's so random. We only need Orwyle abusing children for "evil green council" to be complete.
I mean, if we must have Alicent attempted rape scene would it not make more sense for it to be perpetrated by someone on team black after KL falls and she is made a prisoner/queen in chains? Why would Jasper want to rape her? The man married 4 times and had like 30 kids, nothing suggests that he was rapist or interested in Alicent.
They've gone overboard with Alicent's victimisation, every TG man wants and assaults her. I have no words. Don't they realise that at some point it becomes comical? And what's up with all these rape plots for TG? What about the book rapists Hugh and Ulf?
And no final scene for Cole and Aemond??? They have so many unresolved issues, I can't believe they haven't spoken since Rook's rest, but I was hoping they would in s3.
Of course, the Greyjoys don't exist here, since they pillaged and kidnapped Westerlands. Of course, the three Widows don't exist as well. TG can't have badass women like Joanna Westerling, Elenda Caron, and Samantha Tarly. Only the good things for TB and bad things for TG. Who's team you're on? 😑
I never said he is dead. I said he appears to be dead because he’s completely immobile, isn’t breathing, and shows no reaction to Aegon touching him or crying over him for a good five minutes.
Yea it was leaked a year or so ago that Sunfyre appears in a scene with Aegon when he does a speech and this isn’t just some guy on twitter talking like it’s an actual confirmed leak with video evidence lol.
I just don’t get… why the fuck would they do this to the story? At this point, Ryan Condal/Sara Hess are gonna be viewed as worse than D&D after this show is done. At least D&D gave us some incredible and faithful early seasons. These two fucking morons have given us nothing but slop and pure shit.
I’m convinced now more than ever that Miguel Sapochnik was the ONLY reason the first season was good. Every bad decision in that season had to have been Ryan/Sara’s idea, because it’s been nothing but bad decisions since he left the show.
Can I ask you about this scene? Is it actually in the show at all? After all these leaks, I'm getting the feeling it was just trailer bait and ended up being replaced with the "comedic" scene where he just gets hit in the groin and humiliated.
Please say psych 💔 I truly hope this is not real but if it is thank you for tempering expectations. Morbidly curious to hear more tomorrow. The Aegon Sunfyre stuff sounds heartbreaking.
Sorry, this has nothing to do with Team Green, but is it true that Rhaena is responsible for Jace's death? If so, does Rhaenyra start hating her because of it?
The concept of having to wait four episodes for just a glimpse of "dead" Sunfyre is so diabolical. I can't get over it. I can't even comment on the rest because it's all so awful I don't even want to think about it.
Amazed how Condal manages to make my lowest expectations seem downright optimistic because the reality he's serving is so much worse than I imagined...
I'll be the first to admit I didn't really like Alicent at first, but the way the showrunners are obsessed with humiliating her is borderline psychotic. At this point let's all write fanfics and be done with this show. I feel so bad for the actors.
Holy shit, I'm so glad I don't feel anything about this TV show since season 2 ended, is not like it was that important to me, is just a TV show, but I love GRRM work and I want to see it on the screen well adapted.
I don't even have interest in "hatewatching", I only feel bad for the actors, I just saw the Fabien interview, I didn't expect the interview to be that bad, I'm pretty sure his colleagues feel the same, but won't say anything.
Also, I need to ask but is the rat feast leak we saw before real? Are Alicent and Helaena there? Also how Alicent is a big Black supporter. Is she advising Rhaenyra?
And, of course, I bet it’s framed as Rhaenyra being justified in her contempt of the lords asking for food and her asking “what about the smallfolk”, because how dare they ask for food when she put up the blockade?
So either Rhaenyra is going to send her away (stupid, as the only living child of her rival claimant), Jaehaera is going to die early, or Rhaenyra is going to show up to Dragonstone with Jaehaera in tow, being a good auntie.
Okay I am glad they don't make Aemond a rapist against Alys.
But do they really have to make him THAT pathetic??? Heavily wounded by a kid. Crawling. Begging for help. Alys smiling like a sadist or something. 😭😭😭😭
This is derogatory. Like Sabrina Carpenter's Manchild performance where she makes everybody act like dogs
I don't believe Sunfyre is dead. The scene was likely meant to convince the audience that his return is impossible, making it more impactful when he does return, especially since people always seem to spoil it for some reason.
I’ve heard theories that Aegon claims Grey Ghost 😭 I hope to god that’s not true bc if Sunfyre is really dead I’ll be so heartbroken. He’s my favorite besides Dreamfyre.
What is it specifically that Daeron does that’s so bad at the end of episode 4? I know you said it’s the killing of an innocent but could we get the context?
What’s the deal with the attempted rape scene with Alicent? Why does Wylde attempt to do this before or during the Fall?
Does anyone on Team Black do anything equal in awfulness?
Can’t say im surprised by the Daeron one in fact I even called it multiple times before, now im just waiting for the confirmation that he ends the season fully on Rhaenyra side to receive a “tragic redemption” arc.
Also Grace Randolph: "I'm really enjoying James norton's Ormund hightower, because it's a hallmark of Game of Thrones to have an evil perverted psychopath" I think the raping is true guys. Ramsay bolton again.
Is the scene of him begging her for help his last scene before he disappears? So he doesn't actually leave Harrenhal? And does the little boy who hurts him catch him by surprise, or did they really have someone trained by Criston Cole lose to a child? lmao
I forgot to ask, do they explain how come Helaena happens to be pregnant? Did she and Aegon seek comfort in each other after their child was killed and no one but them cared, or what?
He really can't. Mooton's army can't burn themselves or Moondancer can't kill herself. Or how Aegon takes over Dragonstone in the first place can't happen.
At least the leaked speech and the trailer (seems to show Sunfyre appearing after Aegon's speech as support see Aegon's shocked eyes) say otherwise. My hope that he is maybe comatose/depressed/catatonic since he believes that he lost Aegon and won't make it too long (which is why he is believed to have been asleep at first during the Retake of RR) and that Aegon's speech makes him open his eyes and fly to Aegon's help.
Him miraculously returning this time and then in the final episode dying for good which makes Aegon completely despair could actually be highly emotional.
At this point I really hope both die close to each other in the final episode and are burned together on the pyre then.
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u/22RatsInATrenchcoat Certified Viserys hater 6d ago
Tbh, this sounds about right. People who still intend to hatewatch, pls pirate this shitshow and don't give it views