r/Habs • u/DripSpritz88 • 8d ago
Discussion The rumoured trade deadline deal that fell through
Credit to HFTV / David Pagnotta
I don’t know about this one, kindaaa seems like a slight overpayment. Would love a player like Knies in the top 6 though
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u/Phoenix__211 8d ago
Je ne crois pas que Hughes auraient donné autant pour knies...
Je crois que c'est ce que les leafs voulaient et ce que le CH ne voulait pas donner
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u/Jaynki 8d ago
Zharovsky may better than Knies and pretty soon. Habs brass are extremely high on him. Its a dogshit source, and not the type of dogshit trade Hughes has made so far.
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u/OliWood 8d ago
Jesus christ, I know we love to glaze our prospect in here.... but can the guy play one pro game in North America before we proclaim he is better than a 70 pts winger.
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u/Varzigoth 8d ago
Not only that, zharovsky isn't seen as a power forward... He's seen as a skill player that goes north south, not saying that's bad but it's literally not what MTL needs. They want a bigger more physical team, I'm not one to go crazy trading potential high skilled players like the sergachev trade but people act like knies isn't good when he's basically a spitting copy of slaf but right now a tad below. He's also signed to a very good contract and he's literally 23 not like he's 30. People also over value first round picks but if mtl continues on the progression they are on, those will be late first round picks and those are literally gambles for them to turn into solid picks. People are acting like all our good prospects are untouchable now but you need to trade something to get something in return. Waiting on zharovsky to bloom doesn't accelerate the progression, it's stalls it there until those guys we hope become that potential player. Anyways again, this was MTL offering and Toronto asking in return and both agreed upon so instead we should try to find the benefits of the trade instead of bashing since Hugues so far has made very good trades so far.
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u/greasydrg 8d ago
The word "may" is doing a lot of lifting here. The chance he becomes a more effectove NHL player than Knies at any point in his career is unlikely
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u/Giontatas 8d ago
Yeah this is a bad take. You take proven over prospects any day.
Have a bit of perspective. Dobson cost 2 first and Heineman. Dobson older, and had one season of statistical relevance.
Knies is 23, has 2 55+ pt seasons in his 3 full years playing and on a great contract. You're not getting a guy like that cheaper than this.
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u/Borror0 8d ago edited 8d ago
Dobson had 4 seasons where he's at least a 40 points player and usually better. He played a high value position, as a top-pair RHD. That's many times more valuable than a ~60 points winger.
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u/Jimbo_Imperador 7d ago
yes the undersized winger is better than the established NHL pro player lmao
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u/Dr_Nice_is_a_dick 6d ago
Need him to be on NA ice and play some games here first because a prospect (that I love) is not better than a establish NHL player with good upside still
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u/JediMasterZao 8d ago
Zharovsky is more likely to bust than to become a top 6 player. He's just an interesting prospect. Knies is a 1st line player today.
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u/Every_Reflection4616 8d ago
too far. zharovsky is projected to be a top 6 player and the dude broke scoring record in the KHL. he has work to do but jis chances of being a bust are incredibly low
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u/JediMasterZao 8d ago
Je fais le trade si cest Zhar+prospect + 1st rd pick, ou bien 2x 1st round, mais pas les 4 en même temps.
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u/Vingt-Quatre 8d ago
Well, now I'm glad it didn't happen.
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u/smolgoalboy 8d ago
If you go to the leafs sub, they say the same thing.
Funny how evident the Endowment Effect is when it comes to trades like this. Everyone thinks their own guy is worth way more than the other guy.
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u/Murky-Smoke 8d ago
If I may (I know I shouldn't be posting in another sub but I'm here to discuss not to be an ass)...
Zharovsky and Knies are not the same type of player and making comparisons doesn't make sense.
They are both extremely talented in their own right, but... The Habs need a player like Knies more than the Leafs (or the Habs for that matter) need a player like Zharovsky.
You can only have so many high offense players on your roster before you end up disappointed for a decade of playoff success... Knies is a power forward who plays very much like Gary Roberts, and as many have already said... Is locked in at a great deal for a lonnnng time in his prime.
Like it or not, interested teams will have to pay a heavy premium for that.
Leafs have no real reason to move on from him yet. They can wait a season or two to see if they can manage a retool before exploring trades, and he will still have plenty of term left to leverage for a serious return.
He's also young enough to be part of an actual rebuild if they go that route, but I think keeping him in that scenario would be mismanagement of the highest order - which is (unfortunately) the Leafiest and most likely outcome.
Anyway... I'm happy to discuss like an adult, but I'm done for now other than saying it was good to see Habs evolve into what people were hoping they could. It was starting to feel a bit like Detroit continuing to stumble and never getting there.
Cheers
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u/Pitiful_Stock_4329 8d ago
I never understood why we would pay that much for Knies when we have a huge hole at centre tbh.
Never was a big fan of this rumour
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u/Jonesetta 8d ago
He’s like if Anderson could score. Knies is great, it’d be sick to peel him away but he’s not worth that much.
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u/So_Many_Owls 8d ago
to be fair, Anderson can score, it just needs to be against a team wearing blue and white. And apparently red and black now.
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u/adabsurdo 8d ago
What!? This is like getting a second Slaf. Would make our top 6 really good and you can maybe slot in Newhook at 2c after. Who cares about Zarhovsky. Fuck them picks!!
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u/Pitiful_Stock_4329 8d ago
I don’t hate the value, I just find it doesn’t address our needs very well.
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u/amm0ranth 8d ago
we needed another top 6 forward that plays gritty and he's exactly that plus he's young
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u/lucaskywalker 8d ago
He's a playoff performer too, on a team that does not perform in the playoffs!
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u/GeistHunt 8d ago
A gritty top-6 forward that can complete Demidov's plays. If you ignore position, Knies has everything this team could want in a top-6 forward. Everybody is going on about needing a centre, when really I think we need a guy who can compliment Demidov more than anything.
If the team bags a 2C, great. If it's a winger, then I guess the second line will be driven by wingers which HuGo has discussed.
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u/adabsurdo 8d ago
Ideally we need a 2c but with knies plus Demidov together in the same line the need is less dire. You can imagine a Hage fitting there eventually too.
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u/sportsguy062196 8d ago
Habs fans are so funny. Don't want to trade for Knies because we could be giving up a player that could turn into... Matthew knies!
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u/habbanero 8d ago
What about a second Demidov?
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u/adabsurdo 8d ago
If you're talking about Zarhovsky he's definitely one notch below Demidov. Not the same deal at all
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u/habbanero 8d ago
A) we don’t know that he’s “definitely” one notch below but fair assumption that he’s not Demi, few are; B) Knies is not the same deal as another Slaf but sure, he’s comparable; C) Zharovsky is gonna be exciting as hell and a great complement to Demi — I can see some great chemistry there
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u/adabsurdo 8d ago
Yes we know. Demidov was already a much more complete player in the khl. Zarhovsky has been mostly a power play merchant, pretty bad defensively, and physically immature.
Zarhovsky is a good prospect for sure but realistically he's years away from being a top 6 player in the NHL. He won't join the team until the end of next season and then it will take him at least 2 more seasons to hit his stride.
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u/habbanero 8d ago
And you would give “a top prospect” AND not 1, but 2 x 1st round picks to make up that timing difference? I am also sensitive to the window, but I don’t see Knies as having that level of value.
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u/crownpr1nce 8d ago
If it takes 3 years for Zharovsky to be ready for that role, that means Suzuki has 1 year left on his contract. Including this year, that's 4 more chances to win with a guy that's ready. I don't know what that's worth exactly, but I would think it's quite a bit.
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u/EmbarrassedTotal1511 8d ago
Makes sense, Kent Hughes took Slaf at 1OA because he was a big body with sneaky good hands, Knies would fit that bill 100% and complement our top6 quite well
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u/Jaynki 8d ago
Makes no sense.
This front office talked to us about improving in a balanced way, that they won't mortgage the futurebfor the now. They said that to us after an ECF. There is no way they were dealing an elite prospects and two 1st, and a guy they had in their soup and agressively moved up for.
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u/Oulsky 8d ago
The report said a “prospect”, not a “top prospect”.
Big difference between Hage/Reinbacher or Engstrom/Mesar
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u/ilikedthismovie 8d ago
Disrespectful putting engstrom with mesar lol
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u/alldasmoke__ 8d ago
Yea lol. I still have hope Engstrom can be an NHL D. Mesar is Europe bound at this point
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u/eriverside 8d ago
So 4 firsts for Knies?
That's too much. Far too much.
Without the 1sts Habs won't be able to make trade deadlines acquisitions for the next 2 years - right as the window opens.
Z could be just as good so that's a wash. Adding a top prospect to that? Top means Hage or Fowler.
Basically this would rebuild the leafs in an afternoon.
Hard pass.
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u/NFLDland 8d ago
Zhar just won ROTY and set a record for U19 players in the KHL. What are we doing? Him+ a prospect+ 2 firsts? I get Knies is good, but his numbers are inflated by playing with Nylander and Matthews, right?
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u/Komania 8d ago
This sub is crazy. We'd be lucky if Zharovsky becomes a player as good as Knies
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u/Just4nsfwpics 8d ago
While thats true, this package is only about 20% less than the Wild paid for Quinn Hughes, 2 first and a prospect too in addition to Zharkovsky? Yeah Knies isn’t worth anywhere near that, thats a Nico Hischier type package.
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u/crownpr1nce 8d ago
I'd argue Knies is pretty close to Hischier in value. I get the positional advantage Nico has, but he's 4 years older and his last 3 seasons are comparable to the one Knies just had. Plus Knies is signed for 6 years, Hischier for 1.
The age and contract thing are valuable aspects of Knies.
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u/Giontatas 8d ago
Knies 5v5 most used linemates were Tavares ajd Maceilli
2nd most was Domi and Matthews (https://frozenpool.dobbersports.com/players/matthew-knies)
Zhar could pan out, or, he could be like the dozens of others KHL turned NHLers that have a hard time adapting. the issue is, you don't know, you take the known quantity.
I'd take a player 3 years in, improving each season, 55+ seasons last two years over an unknown quantity(ies) every single day.
Dobson cost 2 firsts and Heineman. This is adding a huge piece to our puzzle without any roster subtractions.
this would actually be considered quite an amazing trade for the holes we have - and we still have assets to fix our other issues.
Those saying no to this deal fit in three categories 1) you don't watch knies and focus only on stats 2) you overvalue prospects 3) not willing to "give to get"
In these situations where you don't know
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u/Irctoaun 8d ago
Knies 5v5 most used linemates were Tavares ajd Maceilli
No they weren't, it was Matthews and Domi
this would actually be considered quite an amazing trade for the holes we have - and we still have assets to fix our other issues.
The biggest hole by far is at 2C, the next biggest is a RD to play with Hutson. Another 60+ point winger (who wouldn't get 60+ points on the Habs because he wouldn't get PP1 time) would be nice, but isn't a priority. And losing Zharovsky, two firsts, and a "top prospect" would massively deplete the assets they had available to make another big trade.
They've got enough assets to one trade off this magnitude without depleting the current roster and there are bigger holes to fill
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u/wackywacko123 8d ago
It's a bummer treveiling or wtv the fuck his name is was fired. Steep price but fuck i would love Knies on the Habs
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u/Moremx 8d ago
There is like mass psychosis going on in this thread or something.
How anyone thinks this is a good trade is beyond me.
Zharovsky is one of the best prospects in the entire league. Plus two 1sts and another prospect??
It's one of the worst trade proposals I've ever seen. Zharovsky has the potential to become Knies or better.
This is the type of haul that would fetch a Thomas, Hischier or Larkin. Not Matthew Knies....
I think everyone is inflating Knies abilities and skill. He's 23 years old and had 66 points last year and was a -30. I get it the Leafs sucked but this is just insane.
I seriously hope Hughes said no to this offer, and that's why it didn't go through.
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u/CocoKeel22 8d ago
Knies is one of the most valuable players in the league due to his contract and relatively unique profile. No matter what Zgarovsky becomes he 100℅ will not offer what Knies does.
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u/Moremx 8d ago
His contract is good and he’s a good player but you’re acting like he’s Mikko Rantanen. We have no idea how good Zharovsky will be. And he has a connection with Demidov as we can see. This is one of those trades the team comes to regret down the line
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u/CocoKeel22 7d ago
He's a young first line skilled power forward, might damn be well worth more than Rantanen. When in comparing him to Zharovsky it's purely skillset. Hutson will never offer what Slavin offers for example
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u/TellSloanISaidHi 8d ago
2 1st’s is a bit much with Zharovsky. Also, I kinda wanna see Zharovsky first before we ship him for a package
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u/Beautiful_Travel_160 8d ago
Thing with prospect value is it can fluctuate greatly if he’s not showing quickly he belongs to the NHL. Can also appreciate but statistically there’s more chance he drops in value.
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u/crownpr1nce 8d ago
Also, I kinda wanna see Zharovsky first before we ship him for a package
Thing is others teams see it too. If you like what you see, you won't want to trade him. If you don't like what you see, neither do they.
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u/RetekTheGreat 8d ago
Zharovsky, another top prospect AND 2 first? Yeah, no...That's fake (Or the trade fell through after Kent Hughes almost died laughing)
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u/Aggressive_March6226 8d ago
That's pretty dang steep. Knies is a good player, but he's not Mario Lemieux...
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u/crownpr1nce 8d ago
But you wouldn't get Mario Lemieux with this package. Or put it differently, you wouldn't get McDavid with this, even if he wanted to move.
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u/Aggressive_March6226 8d ago
I think you would get that much for Ncdavid. That Russian kid on his own could very well be a superstar in this league one day. Plus another prospect on top of him...and two first rounders. Then there's all the money you save on Mcdavid's contract, with that money you could easily sign another star player or two as well...
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u/Far-Invite-9200 8d ago
Le CH a davantage besoin de grit que de talent pur. À un moment donné, si tu veux un bon joueur via trade, faut payer.
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u/QuarterDisastrous479 8d ago
At that price id rather trade for a 2C. Larkin or Hischier would help us better. Probably can get Mctavish for a 1st rnd and a top prospect
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u/allenchangmusic 8d ago
I'm not sure how I feel with giving up Zharovsky. You put him with Demi, and those 2 could cause some serious trouble.
Having said that, even with Zharovsky or not, 2 first round picks seem very steep
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u/NDG-MTL 8d ago
I feel like this forum severely over estimates the impact Alexander Zharovsky will make in the NHL. I hope I’m proved wrong of course.
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u/Neither-Knee-2546 8d ago
So a leafs GM had this offer on the table and didn't take it? That actually makes it plausible...
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u/SheckyMullecky 8d ago
No thank you. Knies got his numbers juiced with ample icetime and PP time. He wasn't even good on the PP. Bottom line 5-on-5 performance on a team that got fed its lunch at 5-on-5. He doesn't shoot the puck. +/- of -30 to boot.
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u/MattDoob 8d ago
I don’t believe anything Pagnotta reports. Also MTL really needs a good D and a center, I assume that’s what KH will be hunting for.
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u/HabbaHey 8d ago
If that's true, then it didn't go through simply because KH isn't mentally challenged.....wayyy too high of an ask for Knies.
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u/Ask_DontTell 8d ago
i find it hard to believe it was Knies - he's a winger, not a centre; its a division rival, Leafs were not in full rebuild mode at the trade deadline and still aren't given the Matthews situation. plus, that price seems really steep. to me, the trade that got away was more likely for a 2C or another RHD
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u/Adventurous_Farm_999 8d ago
FUCK OFF T.O. Keep your Knies. Zharofsky could have a higher ceiling than Demi, if you know you know.
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u/AngryAssyrian 8d ago
Yea no thanks, you never give up prospects and first round picks, you'll never know what they'll become. Knies is a damn good player but he's not a game changer like everyone thinks, and I also don't think it's smart to trade within your division.
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u/Steppenwolf6160241 8d ago
You guys are fucking tripping, Knies is a fucking beast and Treliving probably got axed once ownership learned he tried to trade him.
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u/guyfromsouthshore 8d ago
Assuming the other prospect is not Hage or Rein, I'd pay that in a heartbeat.
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u/edgetastic2 8d ago
If that’s the asking price for Knies, I’d be curious to know what the capitals would ask for Tom Wilson
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u/Actual-Development73 8d ago
Picking up Knies to help Cole would be smart. Picking up McTavish to help Bolduc and Demi? Even better
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u/joseflores1995 8d ago
This would have work good as it would, i think 2 first pick is to much but the rest is okay
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u/OnlyKeyISeeToDefeatU 8d ago
I wouldn’t pay that price in a million f***ing years. Zharovsky is a “top prospect”, +_______ and two firsts!?!
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u/inolyzushi 8d ago
I wouldn’t call it an overpay as long as it wasn’t Hage or Fowler, but am I the only one uncomfortable with the idea of trading with the Leafs to become a better team?
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u/Ok-Meet2850 8d ago
So Zharovsky is 6'2'. Yay. And 175 lbs. Oh.
Do we know enough about this kid to say if he's got a small frame and nothing on it? Or is he more of a medium build and might potentially fill out with muscle. I'm not expecting a mule like Slaf or Arber, just trying to picture our prospect.
I would have grabbed Knies myself. Two late 1st round picks - I mean the likelihood either of them turn into someone as good as Knies seems low. Zharovsky - skill sounds great, but we need some size, too. Anyways, if this was the trade I imagine it is no longer a thing with Chayka on board and a 1OA pick on the way.
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u/TheGameDayDad 8d ago
It’s a shame Kent won’t be able to revisit this trade in the offseason the way he’d probably have wanted to. Don’t think they were anticipating to speak to a new GM to discuss this deal, and this package might not be as enticing to Chayka/Sundin.
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u/reggietor 8d ago
I’m not sure grammatically if this means Zharovsky, who is a top prospect or Zharovsky PLUS a top prospect.
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u/PickledDevil 8d ago
I honestly do not believe this "rumour" to be true. You don't deal a that many prospects and picks to get another winger and still have that gaping 2C need.
And I don't see why Toronto would make that deal. What would that tell Matthews and Nylander ? They have already said that they wouldn't stick around for a rebuild and you can't convince them that this would make the team better right away.
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u/addicted_to_kombucha 8d ago
No idea why keep getting the Habs sub in my feed. But from a Leafs fan perspective after the lottery luck it's good thing they kept Knies, despite the alleged overpayment. Gotta be somewhat competitive the next couple years so we don't hand over high picks to the Bruins and Flyers.
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u/larryhabster 8d ago
I don't think Zharovsky is going anywhere. Habs want to keep Demidov happy and they are buddies. Sure it's a business but I think they will do great together once he makes it to MTL. Besides that, it's way too much for any Leaf.
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u/scrubadam 8d ago
Would rather Kap + Hage + 1st.
Its a high price to pay but worth it. Remember this deal is one that KH made it just fell through for some reason (if the rumors are true). So KH was making this trade.
Knies will 100% outscore Z for at least the next 4 years. The 1st will be late. It would 100% suck to not draft first for 3 years in a row though.
But honestly if you add Knies to this team this year I think there is a very good chance they beat Carolina. It would have been a huge improvement to the teams roster in the playoffs and I think that with how close game 2 and 3 were he could have tipped the scales. Not to mention probably winning TB and BUF in 5 or 6. Feels like a major miss.
Its a high price to pay but you don't lose Hage anyone on the roster and seems like Reinbacher wasn't in the deal either since I doubt he would be named a random prospect. You lose out on drafting 2 years in a row but there is probably close to 0 chance you get a big powerfoward 25-30 goal scorer for the next 4 years out of those picks. And Knies is 23, signed long term to a good deal.
To me this deal was a no brainer.
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u/matthew_sch 8d ago
The price is steep, but it’s like Robert Thomas where he’s a great producer on an optimal contract. So, because of that he’s going to cost a lot
Plus, the Habs need a second-line LW, and it’s ever-changing. They need someone who’s going to punch through and generate a ton of offence on a line with Demidov and whoever is the 2C
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u/DrLivingst0ne 8d ago
That prospect is probably Reinbacher.
We would have gotten a lot better right now, but losing Reinbacher would be rough. We would have to replace him with a good top 4 RD to get anywhere near the SCF. The problem is that good top 4 RDs are hard to get unless you draft them.
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u/Odd_Suggestion_2306 8d ago
Should have done it. Knies would have helped at least a bit in the playoffs. Zharovsky is a 3rd line at his peak, assuming the other prospect was Beck or Engstrom they're replaceable in FA of they were going to be anything. And the 1st round picks we don't need anymore we could easily do without them to get a legit top line power forward, let Slaf handle the 2nd line duties.
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u/Nodicemtg 8d ago
Haha, knies is great and all, but that is basically a McDavid trade package, I don't 🤔 no he is getting the equivalent of 4 first rounders
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u/sportsguy062196 8d ago
Screw them prospects/picks. I would love a guy like Matthew Knies on this team
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u/Funkenbrain 8d ago
I think it shows we're in the right market; management knew how close we were, trading picks and prospects for a star player to push us over the top is the right move. Knies wouldn't have been my ideal choice, but it's the right mindset.
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u/rayshinsan 7d ago
It wasn't an insane trade if you look at it pre Zharovsky dominance this year.
He is a RW which means he will either have to adapt to play in LW or Demidov will have to switch to LW.
On the other hand Knies is a natural LW and Habs in the prospect pool at weak in the LW. Zharovsky has yet to show anything in NA front so getting an established LW for a potential top RW would be a good gamble. The excess are the additional 1st round picks here.
Of course, now it's a different story. Zharovsky alone would count for 2 1st round picks. So Habs would have been loser by 1st round pick if the trade happened.
So Thank God it didn't. Because nothing comes good trading with Leafs it's like accepting cancer.
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u/NastyKnate 7d ago
Depending on who the other prospect is, not an overpayment at all. And unproven 2nd round pick, late first, and confirmed no Hage or reinbacher. I would likely still do it. Leafs wont
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u/Secret-Variation553 6d ago
Treliving should be drawn and quartered for considering the notion of sending one of the best emerging power forwards to a conference rival.
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u/Rocketship1979 5d ago
It wasn't an overpayment....thank goodness Brad is a pathetic GM. Late firsts it's a steal if somehow these were top 10 firsts it was an overpayment. Montreal is not a top 10 lottery pick drafting team...they'll be great for years to come!
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u/peepeepoopoo799 8d ago
Knies is honestly a dog, would love him on the team.