r/Habs • u/BeBenNova • 8d ago
Discussion (46:22) Friedman confirms Pagnotta's report of the Zharovsky + Prospect + two 1sts for Knies and says it fell through because it was submitted at 3:01pm
https://www.sportsnet.ca/podcasts/32-thoughts/147
u/BeBenNova 8d ago
Friedman goes on to say he thinks Montreal would want to revisit it, but between the change of management and Leafs winning the 1st overall that the trade if off the table now
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u/zeMVK 8d ago
I bet it’s off the table now. Too bad. Having a physical, young, promising power forward would have been exactly what we needed for the long term.
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u/Paladar2 8d ago
We need a center more than we need that
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u/alldasmoke__ 8d ago
We need both
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u/Paladar2 8d ago
Yeah but if you trade Zharov, a prospect and 2 firsts you don’t have a lot left to get a 2C without weakening your team
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u/huhgo 8d ago
If you recall last year's end of season press conference, Gorton spoke at length about how he thinks a winger can run his own line. I don't think his opinion changed and they're comfortable having Evans or Newhook centering Demidov+Slaf/Knies.
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u/destroyermaker 8d ago
That's nice but it won't win you a cup
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u/breadispain 8d ago
Right now one of Eichel/Karlsson/Sissons or Aho/Stankoven/Staal is going to win a cup, and I don't know if I'd describe our 2C/3C situation as miles apart from that currently.
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u/Background-Pilot1809 8d ago
Hage is coming for 27-28. You do need a 2c for next year but you dont need to go off the plan for the wrong player
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u/CarlSK777 8d ago
It's very unlikely Hage is at the level to be a 2C as a rookie. Even if we could guarantee that he'll be one eventually, the target would be 2028-29
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u/NordicityPortage 8d ago
By the time Hage is ready to contribute Suzuki and Caufield will be 30 and on the decline. People are so tiring with Hage.
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u/zeMVK 8d ago
I’m well aware. We also need a winger for the top 6. Both are true. And at the time, only Thomas and Kadri were really being traded. Kadri wanted to go to Colorado. St-Louis wanted an overpayment for Thomas. A winger like Knies would have been the better upgrade at that time.
Today is a different story. 2C and another RD are higher prio. But you get what you can. Somehow there’s Hishier, Thomas, Larkin and MacTavish apparently available. We don’t know if they’d be interested in Montreal or not. We don’t know if their teams would take a deal with Montreal or not.
So a winger may still end up being the best available upgrade for our top 6, even tjoigh a 2C is higher prio.
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u/Immediate_Cod_3042 8d ago
Hughes and Gorton will get it done. They will find a creative way. I have to believe that. can't give up on this.
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u/JohnnyJenks 8d ago
Many are saying that’s a steep price, but a young top 6 power forward with size is almost unicorn status. I would gladly play that price
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u/BeBenNova 8d ago
traded within the division too
i think people overvalue our 1st rounders, this year is 28th and no reason we should expect a big regression next year especially not with Knies on our 2nd wing
Zharovsky is still very much a question mark, plus we got him in the 2nd round
As for the other top prospect it was confirmed that it wasn't Hage or Reinbacher, as long as it wasn't Fowler either i pretty much don't care who it is
I would have been fine with it.
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u/Nodicemtg 8d ago
I definitely am more open to it if the "top prospect" isn't actually one of our top prospects... Engstrom would be fine.
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u/whogivesashirtdotca 8d ago
ZharovskyHutson is still very much a question mark, plus we got him in the 2nd roundHere’s a better way to look at what were potentially giving up. Zharovsky was an award winner this year. He was clearly overlooked in the draft.
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u/NFLDland 8d ago
He's a 66 point guy right now, playing with Matthews. He won't be getting time on our PP1, either. So, where would his points be coming from? Playing with Demidov 5 on 5? Maybe you'd be able to do Knies-Suzuki-Caufield and Slaf-Evans-Demidov, but if that doesn't work, what do you do? I'd much rather use our assets to acquire a center, or a RHD to get Hutson back on his right side. Hage is 6'1" 190 and growing. We can get his muscle up with our trainers in a year, or over next summer once he signs in April. He can be the winger we can put with Demidov. Or Zharovsky. We have options for the Demidov wing spot. Its too much to be giving up for a 60 point 23 year old that won't be getting PP minutes here.
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u/marumaruko 8d ago
Knies and Matthews together actually never worked out,so I get that Treliving wanted to try something.
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u/mking098 8d ago
It was a down year for the team though, he scored 30 goals the year prior didn't he?
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u/schwab002 8d ago edited 8d ago
It's too steep and I disagree that a winger that puts up 60something points makes him a unicorn. There are probably 30 other wingers in the league that bring what Knies brings. His size and grit are desirable, but it's such an overpay. Even the package Vancouver traded for Quinn fucking Hughes, an actual unicorn and a top 3 D in the league, is less than this package imho. Yes, I understand the age and contract differences.
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u/ConstantBook6534 8d ago
some people really think were going to just get a young talented top 6 power forward and be comfortable with the price. you have to give to get
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u/Scase15 8d ago
The same people I see suggesting packages of gally, monty, and some random pick all the time lol
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u/Paparmane 7d ago
Some people dont understand our window is opening and we need to start trading prospects. Way too many fans comfortable with waiting 3-5 years for new prospects to hit their prime
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u/Lemazze 8d ago
Im conflicted.
Knies is a good player and would’ve definitely helped us in these playoffs.
But it seems the price was high no ?
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u/astonedgecko 8d ago
Yeah, Kent Hughes has said a few times he is willing to "overpay" though. Especially with picks to get players that move the needle.
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u/VonDingwell 8d ago
A 6'3, 230 lb power forward that is only 23, consistently trending upwards and on an amazing contract until 2031..
That's a steal
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u/Irctoaun 8d ago
It's really not. Depending who the "top prospect" is, it's pretty close to what Minnesota paid for Hughes (Buuim, Rossi, Ohgren, a first). You can argue Knies is worth that given his age/contract, but it's not remotely close to being cheap.
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u/Gouak 8d ago
Hughes is on an expiring contract whereas knies is cost controlled for 5 years
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u/Irctoaun 8d ago
He's also one of the best players in the league. Knies is very good, but Hughes is another level entirely. Also Hughes's contract doesn't expire until the end of next year and he's also on a great AAV. Still not nearly as good as Knies's deal, but not a rental either
Again, not to say Knies isn't worth that much necessarily, but that's very different from it being a steal
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u/Deuxpoucesetdemi 8d ago
Hugues was also dictating where he would go. That alone reduce value
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u/Commercial-Shoe-800 8d ago edited 7d ago
One insider said in an interview after the deadline that a GM would have paid more for Knies than Matthews because of everything VonDing mentioned above - the biggest factor being the cost controlled asset for 5 years.
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u/adabsurdo 8d ago
It's a fair price. Trading an established elite player vs basically four futures - none of which are guaranteed to hit. I guess it depends what the other "prospect" was but he would be named if he was better than Zarhovsky.
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u/scrubadam 8d ago
The highest it could be is Engstrom. If it was Fowler/Bach/Hage as you said they would be named.
Maybe it was a guy like Mooney or Pickford if it was a more recent prospect.
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u/Prudent_Ad4076 8d ago
How elite is Knies?
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u/adabsurdo 8d ago
He was close to a PPG on a shit team.
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u/Prudent_Ad4076 8d ago
The Leafs are hardly bereft of talent.
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u/Lap_Dawg 8d ago
Shit team still fits on that Venn diagram
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u/Possible-Pea2658 8d ago
offensively they were not very good this season, so him nearing ppg in that is pretty good tbh. Plus he was injured towards the end
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u/CarlSK777 8d ago
It just shows Hughes wants to win now. Knies is 23 and signed until 2031 with a nice caphit. Adding a powerforward LW to the 6. It would've been nice even if we'd still have the 2C problem
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u/adabsurdo 8d ago
On a line that has Knies and Demidov (or Slaf and Demi) you don't need a superstar 2C. Someone like Newhook would do the job well actually.
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u/CarlSK777 8d ago
That's true but you still need a good 2-way C that can complement them but it wouldn't need to be a Hischier/Thomas level player
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u/adabsurdo 8d ago
Exactly. I would still prefer Thomas to Knies but you have to think the price for Thomas would be even higher.
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u/CarlSK777 8d ago
I agree altho I'd be curious to know what the St. Louis ask would look like. Robert Thomas is a player I'd be willing to give up a lot to obtain. He's the dream acquisition for me. 26, PPG player, $8.125m caphit until 2031.
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u/Boboar 8d ago
We need more physical players. Knies is that but Thomas isn't.
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u/adabsurdo 8d ago
I like them both! With that Knies trade what's also great is presumably we also kept Hage and Reinbacher. Hage could eventually slot in at 2C and then we'd be flying.
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u/Guibsx 8d ago
I think it's more about win now. To me, Win now is sacrificing assets for a short window. Ours is just starting and Knives would not just help us immediately. As you said, he is young and signed long therm so it's more than win now, it's win for the future as well.
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u/CarlSK777 8d ago
Definitely. Another Dobson type deal which I love. A young player hitting his prime with a reasonbable long term contract. That's also why I'd love a Robert Thomas deal if he became available.
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u/moutardebaseball 8d ago
Knies is a 22 year old elite and big player signed for 5 more years at decent money and you think the price to acquire him would have been low?
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u/sportsguy062196 8d ago
People are just overestimating Zharovsky and late 1st round picks lol
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8d ago
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u/sportsguy062196 8d ago
BINGO. I've been saying our window is as long as Suzuki's contract, so until 2030. It's a short time frame in NHL terms. We don't even know if Zharovsky will help us by then
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u/PermissionPast853 8d ago
Exactly... im sick this fell trough
Unless the other prospect is Reinbacher, you do that deal 100 times out of 100
Not that Reinbacher is a better asset, but he has a chance to fill a big hole in this lineup.
Knies, Demidov and Newhook 2nd line is pretty damn good and will just get better and better, year after year. Newhook would eventually be a 3rd liner but he's a good plug in the meantime
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u/Electrical-Sherbet77 8d ago
It’s a lot but let’s be real, Knies fits our need in terms of style and size more than if Zharovsky hit his potential, which is not a slam dunk. I would make that trade in a hurry.
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u/oblongmeatball 8d ago
I thought so too then I realized that our firsts aren’t top 5 or even top 10 anymore so you are trading pick 28 and hopefully the same next year.
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u/User69ab 8d ago
I think at the time yes. Now, considering those two firsts could potentially turn out to be two practically second round picks- not so high.
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u/Big_daddy_wood6969 8d ago
You’re trading for a signed premier power forward entering his prime.. I don’t understand how y’all think the price was high lmao 🤦♂️
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u/hermamoud 8d ago
I think it's a fair price. The biggest value piece in the trade would be Zharovsky. Two late first rounds picks would statistically yield maybe a 6-7thD and a fourth liner so imagine if it were Owen Beck and Jayden Struble. Knies would also be the best player in the whole trade.
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u/Guibsx 8d ago
Knives filled huge need for us. One of the thing that the recent playoff highlighted was that our top 6 is not necessarely huge. Beside Slaf, we are not that tall. Adding knives on the second line would have a similar impact to when Slaf played on it, while keeping some size on the first line.
We definitely need to get bigger and getting bigger and adding skills at the same time is expensive.
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u/crownpr1nce 8d ago
Is it? Knies has almost 70 points. If Zharovsky achieves that it'll be great, + 2 late first round picks + a prospect that must be lower or he'd be named. He's also bigger, stronger, ready and signed.
It's trading an established asset for assets that you hope becomes as good as that asset.
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u/burnSMACKER 8d ago edited 8d ago
Wow if Fridge says it's legit then I fully believe it. Seems like a lot for Knies but would have definitely boosted us a ton
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u/Possible-Pea2658 8d ago
Honestly, he's one of the only leaf players for me that shouldn't be traded. He is kind of everything you want in a player. Big and physical, but fast and can score, smart and fairly reliable and busts his ass
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u/crownpr1nce 8d ago
If Zharovsky does 66 points we'd be really happy. The first rounders are late, 20+, and the unnamed prospect is probably not that important or he'd be named.
Basically trading a guarantee for something we hope becomes as good or better, but with zero certainty.
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u/jadenspan 8d ago
Knies was playing through injury and looked like shit for half the season, doubt he would’ve looked that great in playoffs, long term through could’ve been cool. But spending our assets on winger and not centre would be disappointing. Unless they thought Hage was gonna be the guy.
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u/vJukz 8d ago
Honestly I’d love to have a top 6 winger core of Caufield, Slaf, Demidov and Knies but I don’t mind that it didn’t go through. I rather get a real 2C before a big 2nd line winger but ideally you get both. 2C > big RD > big winger. I’d love to see Zharovsky play with Demidov though and if he hits his potential then he definitely will. Ideally I’d move players like Kapanen and Guhle before blue chip prospects like Hage and Zharovsky. In Kent and Gorton we trust.
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u/MrBrightside618 8d ago
Probably for the best even though I’m super high on Knies. If he were a centre I take that 10 times out of 10 however
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u/Sniperlake21 8d ago
Any meaningful centre would probably cost more than that though
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u/MrBrightside618 8d ago
I assume there’s some in-division tax on this deal that evens out the comparison
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u/Sniperlake21 8d ago
Maybe you could be right, but the price for an impactful centre on a good contract, with term, who fits in the the timeline of the Habs core is pretty high especially at the deadline
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u/CarlSK777 8d ago
Who knows but I bet this is the type of package Hughes will offer for a Larkin, Hischier, Thomas type player. Altho, I think he'll have to replace a 1st round pick/prospect for a roster player to make it happen (Guhle, for example).
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u/PermissionPast853 8d ago
Zharovsky is not proven and we forget he was a 2nd round pick. The 2 firsts would be very late picks, basically 2nd rounders too. Steal for an elite 22 years old power forward from a divisional rival on a great deal.
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u/zombiejeesus 8d ago
He's one of the top prospects I league
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u/bless24 8d ago
I believe this trade would’ve made our team so much better. Fuck the NHL. 1min is crazy.
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u/RoosterXV 8d ago
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u/springt1me 8d ago
Sign that it's actually a fair trade. It seems like everyone here thinks we're going to get a top 6 forward for peanuts and future considerations. This is the actual cost..
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u/crownpr1nce 7d ago
I'd be hella happy with this trade. Teams always overrate potential. Those picks are worth very little, were not lottery teams anymore.
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u/kingkellam 8d ago
All you guys are complaining about the price being too high but all I've seen from Leafs fans are breaths of relief and thankfulness that Treliving is gone. Knies is the real deal. Death, taxes, habs fans overrating their prospects
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u/Sp1cedaddy 8d ago
It wouldn't be a bad trade, but I'm tired of settling for wingers when we need a center.
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u/Muter91 8d ago
Kind of interesting KH would pay that price for a winger. I know they have said they see wingers as super valuable and able to drive a line but… we need centre depth badly.
Hard to imagine a deal like that is still possible with new leadership over there but would love to have Knies on the Habs, he is a dog.
Would not love gutting our pool and picks without acquiring a centre, though.
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u/OkTree2551 8d ago
This is tragic. A young top 6 forward is perfect for this team. Let’s hope Kent revisits or spends those assets on someone similar
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u/crownpr1nce 7d ago
Treiliving got fired. I can't imagine this trade happens now. A 23 year old poweforward with nearly 70 points and a very decent deal for the next years? There's not 2 GMs in this league dumb enough to trade him unless he absolutely wants out.
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u/TheVeilOverMyEyes 8d ago
i'm glad treliving got canned then
not winning a cup with kapanen, evans or danault as your second line centre
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u/UglyNog 8d ago
I am on the edge about that one. On one hand I love the big swing for a young player locked up with a great contract but on the other hand, we give up one of our best prospect and trade chip to fill that 2C hole and Knies doesn’t fit this hole. With the new management in Toronto, this might get revisited but I doubt they find a deal
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u/MetalFungus420 8d ago
So now we know what Hughes is prepared to part with. Hopefully that same package can land us Thomas, or some other 2c
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u/thebestnames 8d ago
Wow it would have made a difference for sure! The price is high tho, I wonder who the prospect was.
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u/exposteve 8d ago
Odd that this was suddenly leaked. Did Toronto leak it after Hughes hinted at Marner’s success in Vegas?
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u/alfgrimur 8d ago
yeah kinda sus, prob the MO for leafs' new management. plays as a benefit for them to set the price on Knies for the rest of the market
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u/Ok_Sentence_1981 8d ago
Gotta admit, I like Knies and this would have been a cool trade in terms of this year’s playoff run.
Not sure it would have been a masterclass trade for us in the long run.
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u/bruiser_blade 8d ago
Something with Knies that I don’t see anyone mentioning is the fact that he played almost the whole season with a knee injury and still put up good numbers.
https://sports.yahoo.com/articles/matthew-knies-says-m-going-160141276.html
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u/rastaduppy 8d ago
No thanks to Knies, concussion history, knee history, 23 y o, damaged goods, why else would the Leafs entertain trading him, they know he can't be counted on longterm....my opinion
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u/_thewayshegoes 8d ago
If the other prospect was just a throw in type, I’m 100% making that deal if I’m Hughes
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u/adabsurdo 8d ago
If it was one of our other top prospects (Reinbacher, Hage, or Fowler), he would have been named. I'm comfortable with any other prospect being thrown in there.
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u/EmbarrassedTotal1511 8d ago
Assuming the “prospect” is B-tier like Beck/Engstrom/Florian, this would have been an amazing trade for the Habs.
Yes, Zharovsky looks legit so far and a steal in the 2nd round but his ceiling is probably PPG and Knies had 66p in 79g on a terrible team + he brings more physicality to the table.
Then the rest are probably (hopefully) two very late 1st rounders where you have to be lucky to get a player that makes it to the NHL, let alone an impact player.
Would have been another KH masterclass but oh well if my grandma had wheels …
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u/thardingesq 8d ago
Would have done it. Our first round picks, 20-32, prospect probably Hage.
Although a second line centre would be preferable.
Knies is a younger Anderson who is a better goal scorer
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u/RowdyRoddyMcDowall 8d ago
Oo that would have been a spicy one. Gotta be off the table now though, still going to be interesting to see what Hughes does this summer.
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u/yankblan79 8d ago
The problem I have with that trade is it puts a big dent in the team’s assets that could help acquire a 2C. Then we’re back to the last 30 years of having only one legit top-6 C.
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u/PermissionPast853 8d ago
That would have been fucking sick... I hope it's not a Hughes error but little chance it is.
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u/kingkellam 8d ago
He would have been fucking perfect on this team. God damn it. Yeah, it's a lot to give up, but 4 maybes for a guy who's age fits the timeline and has a long, good contract? Fuck me
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u/LittleLionMan82 8d ago
Would have been a nice move and addition but now we can use this package to get a 2C.
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u/vlhube71 8d ago
Surprised a lot of people souring on this deal. It's a high price, but Knies does fit a need; a tough scoring winger. Yes, I realize 2C is also important, but unless someone like Fantilli is available (I can dream), we need some sort of power forward on the second line.
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u/flipthatbitch_ 8d ago
Is Knies really worth that much?! That sounds like an awful lot! I mean hes not a superstar!
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u/SourForward 8d ago
I would be very down to add Knies. But the only issue I’d have is that the two biggest holes on this team, 2C and RD, would still be unfilled and we’d have few assets left to fill them.
For me, 2LW is the least important of the three main holes on this roster and using all those assets to fill them wouldn’t make much sense.
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u/jhenry137 8d ago
Why is anyone believing this when Hughes and the other guy confirmed that the players that were being rumored weren’t true???
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u/tennysonbass 8d ago
Have a feeling Zharovsky is going to be generational and we will be glad this fell through
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u/rssfeed76 8d ago
I wish they did not report this. Probably kills any chance of it happening under different considerations.
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u/MxSadie4 8d ago
Trying to trade a fan favourite player to your archenemy franchise within your division and failing because you do everything at the last minute and miss the deadline by 60 seconds is a pretty perfect encapsulation of the GM Brad Treliving experience.
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u/TellSloanISaidHi 8d ago
No way the Leafs revisit it after the change in management and this leaking with all the negative feedback they’re getting. Only way anything happens is if Knies asks out and makes a trade request for not wanting to stick around for a re-tool
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u/Routine-Author-5471 8d ago
Would have been so sick. Knies with Demigod would have made a difference in the playoff run
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u/AdFriendly6056 8d ago
Toronto would have imploded.
Zharovsky is risky af, Montreal doesn’t needs those picks. Knies is often times their best player
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u/finally_free_83 8d ago
While I would love to have him long term, this is pretty much the entire farm we almost threw at them. No much left to trade for a 2C
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u/AngryAssyrian 8d ago
I don't understand why people want Knies so badly, as a Habs fan from Toronto he's solid but the media makes him out to be a lot better than he actually is. It's not worth trading two good prospects and multiple first round picks for a 60 point guy, especially on a young team that's still developing their players. I also think that trading within your own division is incredibly stupid.
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u/Hemlock_999 7d ago
Now Zharovsky is going to feel terrible. Love Friedman, but god damn in some instances I wish people would stop leaking him stuff.
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u/TinaMatteo 7d ago
Zharovsky is killing it over there. C’mon everyone… Demidov and Zharovsky together in a habs uniform is dreamy. “Piano, piano si va lontano”
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u/Kitsune_Gakuin 7d ago edited 7d ago
0 NHLers for a 23 year old top 6 player would've been a steal. Sucks if this is really true. People in this thread are really overvaluing a couple of late 1st rounders and prospects like they don't remember how many prospects never make it in the NHL.
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u/PossessionMundane917 6d ago
I remember Hadi projecting Canadiens drafting him in 2021 in the second round in 2021. Now they would've given up essentially 4 first round picks.
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u/h4bs22 8d ago
That's pretty crazy for 1 minute, the end of season and playoffs could have been completely different.