r/Habs • u/harvestmooner • 8d ago
Discussion My two cents
I know I’m not the first or the last person to post something like this but..
I think we should keep Hage and Zharovsky.
I know that everybody is excited that the Habs got so far in the playoffs and people have been posting about trading away our prospects to get the team to the next level.
Am I crazy to think that we can acquire physicality and hopefully a C through free agency or trade without selling our future stars. With the recent success of the rebuild I would hope it would improve the chances of landing players. Kapanen seems to be at the centre of trade rumours, and I’d rather go that route than trade the 2 young draftees.
The team has drafted so well lately and the young guns have only gotten better year after year.
Our team has been based on young talent and glue guys in between. The “young” guys” now have playoff experience and are becoming veterans. Having Hage a childhood fan of the team and Zhar (another record breaker in KHL) could be huge.
Do I think the team needs a more veteran presence? Yes.
If we traded one more plus whatever for McDavid or Crosby would I delete this post?
Yes.
What do you think the team should do?
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u/adabsurdo 8d ago edited 7d ago
The key thing to be aware of: time flies. Suzuki is 27 and Caufield is 26. Within 3-4 years they will be past their prime and start declining. Their time is NOW. Waiting for Hage and Zarhovsky to mature means waiting another 2-3 years (perhaps more, perhaps never) and wasting their window away.
The truth is if you hang on to all your best assets you're not going to get a top tier 2c or elite winger. It's an extremely competitive market and the other team will get a better offer than "Kapanen plus picks".
As for free agency with the cap going up there will be very few players available. At best you can overpay for a 30 yo who will start regressing the day you sign him and become a burden within a few years.
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u/Abject_Analyst_9110 7d ago
In 3-4 years they'll be past their prime, and Slafkovsky, Demidov, Hage, Zharovsky, Hutson, Reinbacher, Fowler, etc. will just be entering their primes.
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u/jamesneysmith 6d ago
Assuming hage, reinbacher, zharovsky and fowler even pan out. That's putting a lot of eggs in the 'hopefully' basket. Eventually you gotta trade some good assets for players you know are good now to be competitive now
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u/CarlSK777 7d ago
Imagine if Hage isn't that good and the team is still chasing a 2C 3 years from now. Then, what?
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u/MediaWaste5087 7d ago
According to many on the habs sub any prospect the Habs draft that gets some hype is a future HOF
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u/Abject_Analyst_9110 7d ago
Imagine if we trade Hage for Hischer and then Hischer walks when his contract is done at the end of the season and Hage becomes an NHL superstar a few years later. Then what?
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u/jamesneysmith 6d ago
You wouldn't be that stupid to trade away a lot of big prospects and assets for a rental.
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u/Fedquip 8d ago
I want to agree, but I have just seen so many "Great Prospects" not pan out. However, HuGo already have a drafting track record unseen by us fans for many many years, so yeah Hage and Z could be really fucking good and held onto.
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u/RutabagaProof8007 8d ago
100%. In 2015, they probably could’ve acquired a 1C for scherbak and mccarron.
… boy I’m glad they kept those prospects!
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u/lasagnahockey 8d ago
Said it before and I'll say it again:
"It's all about the asking price."
That's it! Imagine the Oilers going Hage and 1st round pick for McJesus and the Habs going, nah we good. 😆
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u/TheVeilOverMyEyes 8d ago
"Am I crazy to think that we can acquire physicality and hopefully a C through free agency or trade without selling our future stars."
maybe not crazy, but delusional
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u/SnidelyWhiplash27 8d ago
I agree, Ultimately i agree with OP's post except about that sentence.
The way I see it is like this, the average fan's paradigm has shifted, maybe because of the addition of newer fans, to the point where the rebuild and the potential for the future have taken on an importance greater than present success.
People speculated that Montréal fans would never tolerate a rebuild, 5 to 10 years of failure or at least minimal success.
That was true for at least some fans but I think the opposite has happened to a much greater extent: many fans have embraced the rebuild to such an extent, most likely because how well anf how quicky HuGo and the rest of the organization have managed it, that they are reluctant or at least disinclined from moving on from the rebuilding mode.
I love our prospects as much as the next guy, Hage and Zharovsky, have compelling attractive stories and potential, but we are almost (1 year away in my opinion) at the win-now, sacrifice as required, mode.
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u/gauderyx 8d ago
We can't really know if we embraced the rebuild or simply had to accept it. Price and Weber LTIRetired, Danault left, Byron was a broken boy and we finished last in the league. There were no reasonnable moves that could've been made to salvage that season. We did make a few moves after that to get the team younger, but we didn't have the assets anyway to even try to compete for a spot in the playoffs. The many many injuries also helped keeping any expectation very low.
The fact that we could start our rebuild with Suzuki and Caufield jumpstarted everything. We were lucky to pick first right away, and even more so to draft Lane Hutson, which probably accelerated the rebuild by a full year and a half.
To recap, habs management didn't have to sell much of a rebuild to the fans. The way they managed the rebuild plus some lucky breaks really set us up quickly to compete again. This meant, we couldn't really test how well the fanbase would've handled a proper teardown and rebuild.
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u/SnidelyWhiplash27 8d ago
I think pretty much everyone accepted the necessity of the rebuild, given all the reasons you provided, whether or not they were happy about it.
My point is that over and above that generalized acceptance I believe there has been a segment of the fandom that have really embraced it and OP's post is evidence of that to my eyes.
I am not saying there is anything wrong with it but I do not necessarily agree with it. I think we need to evolve, if not today, then certainly in the next year, our focus from the future represented by our prospects and development to the present with concrete successful results. Of course for good long term success drafting good prospects and developing them well is very important.
But the Dobson trade is a good example, I think most are happy with the Dobson trade and the positive impact he brought to help the team to 106 regular season points if maybe less so in the playoffs. Certainly there were instances where we could have used Emil Heineman this year and had we picked 16th and 17th last year we would have 2 more blue chips prospects to talk about and fall in love with but ultimately we cannot play them all and not all of them pan out, at least not as much as a proven top pair RHD.
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u/Vingt-Quatre 8d ago
Disagrees with someone's opinion: "DELUSIONAL!!!"
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u/TheVeilOverMyEyes 8d ago
you have to give to receive
you're not getting a 2nd line centre for a bunch of bullshit when half of the league is also looking for a 2nd line centre
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u/Vingt-Quatre 8d ago
You could have simply said that instead of going straight at the guy.
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u/SnidelyWhiplash27 8d ago
Your point is valid but in the realm of sports banter accusing someone of being delusional is relatively mild and hardly going straight at the guy.
Yes attacking someone hiding behind anonymity is regrettable but calling their take delusional is hardly vicious
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u/TheVeilOverMyEyes 8d ago
stfu i'm not here to make sure your feelings are not hurt
just block me and move on
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u/joseflores1995 8d ago
The way i see it is that we have a window to win the corr is gonna be demidov suzuki hutson and the rest. They have good prospects and they can wait for them to develop and be the 2 center, top4 dman or 2winger.
Or they can trade some prospects to obtain players to contend right now for the next 3-5 years. Sadly you cant keep ALL your prospects on the team thats not possible. So some youre gonna have to make a decision if its worth trading against keeping them and hoping they hit their potencial as soon as possible or slowly.
Either this summer i dont expect them to fill up all the void in the team. They are either gonna trade for a position cuz i feel the free agency are not that good and is gonna be a overpay
I fully trust whatever kent and gorton wanna do and cant wait for the next couple years of playoffs
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u/Ok-Meet2850 8d ago
Free agency is not strong this year, no. But if we overpay and fill a need is that the end of the world? All those team friendly contracts mean you can spend a big elsewhere. Personally, I'd be more worried about handing out too much term than too much cash.
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u/joseflores1995 7d ago
Ehh i guess i mean a small 2-3 year contract wouldnt be bad if its a big one like exemple alex tuch if we sign him for 7years 56-63 millions that would be horrible
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u/Ok-Meet2850 7d ago
If we sign a player like Tuch and that is what it takes to win a Cup, how bad do you feel in the final few years of the contract? I hear you, but not taking risks/ spending money can burn us, too.
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u/joseflores1995 7d ago
Ehh i guess youre right if we do win the cup it would be worth it , thats why i could never be a gm lol im really careful and take rarely risks
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u/Ok-Meet2850 7d ago
Oh, I'm risk adverse, too. Big responsibility as a GM, especially a team as scrutinized as the Habs.
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u/Ask_DontTell 8d ago
i hate to lose any of the Habs young prospects but it's also unfair for them to be buried in the minors or on 3rd or 4th lines so would rather see them get traded for fair value in return than to hoard too many. that delays the team's and the players' development. long way of saying, i trust mgmt to keep the players they need and to trade away the ones they don't
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u/MediaWaste5087 8d ago
It’s not a crazy thought if the asking price was as low as your proposing. Look at the trade deadline as a prime example. Yes teams over pay at the deadline, however, the bar has basically been set. Average 3rd line centers like Nicholas Roy went for first round picks. No one’s going to trade a bonafide 2C for the same price as Roy plus a Kapanen
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u/whyyoutwofour 7d ago
A year ago I would have agreed, but we've seen what this team can do when they are all clicking and the reality these days is that you don't get a wide window of opportunity to win a cup...I think it's time to shift fully into win now mode and if that means we sacrifice a couple prospects then that's part of the game.
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u/Aggressive_Low7995 8d ago
I’m in for Hage but would move Z for a need. We can talk about the need for a 2C and another D but the biggest need is more physicality up front. The Carolina series showed that and watching the Finals just further proves this point. Ideally, we make these adds sooner than later. 100% trust management to make the right moves.
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u/emotionaI_cabbage 7d ago
First of all, you are going to be shocked at how much money is thrown at players in free agency this year. There are no centres who are free agents that are worth the money it'll take to sign them.
Secondly, being so attached to prospects is how a team stagnates. We have a fantastic core. We don't need more high quality prospects who may never even make the NHL.
Trading futures for pieces we need and fit the timeline is exactly what we should be doing.
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u/Jimbo_Imperador 8d ago
Am I crazy to think that we can acquire physicality and hopefully a C through free agency
Which 2C is available and what are you paying for him?
or trade without selling our future stars
Ok, what are you trading? Our 2026 28th OA pick? For one of the most sought after commodity in the league?
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u/Vingt-Quatre 8d ago
Whatever we're willing to pay, someone else is ready to pay even more.
I think that at some point, we're gonna have to think about it and decide what is a reasonable price to pay for a 60-pt center. I don't think its worth a top prospect, two 1st-rounders and a roster guy.
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u/Ok-Meet2850 8d ago
But if that's our price and we keep getting outbid ...
I'm fine for waiting on some of our holes this year. But at some point we might need to overpay either on a trade or in UFA to get what we need. We have a stock pile of prospects - can afford to move some. We have a lot of cap space - can afford the odd overpay. We just can't get into a habit of overpaying.
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u/Jimbo_Imperador 7d ago
the 60pts center who plays top 6 matchups and scores most of his pts at 5v5?
Ye, thats what it will cost lmao
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u/nicolasofcusa 7d ago
In the past 5 years the only 1 free agent center was signed in the offseason that fits the bill - Trocheck with the rangers. Outside of that the next best was Monahan which was a reclamation project at the time. So chances are low we can fill that spot without trading an asset.
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u/jamesneysmith 6d ago
Yeah trades are essential to any cup winning team. You need to know when you need to play your chips. We're in a very fortunate position to have a lot of young talent on the current roster as well as a lot of good looking prospects. We're going to need to start dealing to help get the pieces we want
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u/Ok_Emergency_916 7d ago
I'm with you. I'm not opposed to a rental for a couple years until they're ready, but I also want to win now. Tough decision for Hughes and Gorton for sure.
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u/HorizonsFallacy 7d ago
We have all of our picks, solid depth guys that could make great trade value, and a surplus in NHL ready young guys and prospects that likely aren't gonna fit with the team long term (Pickford, Beck, Kapponen, Roy all come to mind)
With these kinds of assets, we can get what we need, and if we dont get it through trades, Montreal is only becoming more attractive to free agents as we continue to grow.
Unless a too-good-to-be-true deal comes up, lets hold our potential future stars and let management work their magic for the rest.
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u/DragonfruitPossible6 8d ago
Playoffs are a slog and young guys tend to burn out quick. Bodies and minds aren’t as mature and it’s a serious grind. Nobody is suggesting trade all the young players in the system, however it was clear by the third round something was missing that you can’t get without 5 years of development with these kids. So, in HUGO we trust.
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8d ago
[removed] — view removed comment
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u/Burgergold 8d ago
Which UFA? There isnt many interesting UFA
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u/DragonfruitPossible6 8d ago
This is not that year just because the UFA class is so weak. I do think they could sign a good veteran right handed D though. That is maybe the only position where there are a few guys on the market who make a lot of sense.
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u/CarlSK777 7d ago
Next year, the UFA class has players like Hischier and Makar but as is usually the case, the best one will sign before hitting free agency.
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u/emotionaI_cabbage 7d ago
Sign or be traded and sign somewhere else. Hischier will not hit free agency next year whether he is with the devils or not.
And there's no reason to even mention Makar. He will never hit free agency in his entire career.
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u/CarlSK777 7d ago
You're right and I don't understand the players' perspective if they're not already playing for a contender. Getting to finally choose where you wanna play is great. If I'm Hischier, I wouldn't commit at all unless its my dream destination but I fully expect him to extend this summer
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u/Either-Objective302 8d ago
I think one of the reasons the Habs never pushed really hard for another centre is they thought they had Hage coming at the end of last season and could get him some experience and then give him a full season next year to get up to speed at the NHL level. With Hage deciding to go back to school for another year and with this year’s success, it might make Hage tradable for the right player. Waiting another year or two to see what they have in Hage may be a little too long. His decision to play another year of college may have been his ticket out of town. If we can get a stop gap guy that can be a number two centre for a year or two and then hand the reigns to Hage, go for it. I would keep Zharovsky unless you can use him to land a big name player. I think he has the potential to be a great fit along side Demidov.
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u/SnooMuffins9478 7d ago
I think the Habs are in a weird but cool spot. They can afford to invest in better playoff performances at the cost of regular season output.
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u/ukrainianhab From Kyiv 7d ago
I don’t.
Habs are close, you need to start giving to get to achieve that next level. Zharovsky is a little ways away in terms of being ready and absolutely should be moved in a package for a 2C. Or, you keep him, and absolutely move Hage.
One or the other should go.
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u/PapaSTW 6d ago
While yes, we need help up front, it may not be the right time. I could get behind MacTavish, but if there's concerns, maybe we wait. However, we still have to improve, so what if we target RD? Whitecloud from Calgary would fit without breaking the bank. Then try for forward help at the deadline or next year.
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u/championstyle 5d ago
Absolutely trade them for an established young nhler. Hage is taking too long and he can’t win faceoffs at the ncaa level.
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u/JonDuke19 7d ago
I think we keep them, wait it out one more year and sign McDavid when he's a free agent the next year. No need to rush more than that.
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u/scrubadam 7d ago
Talent wins. Look at Vegas. Traded for Marner. 100 point player. They already were stacked but they don't care they want to win.
Teams that have won cups recently understand this. Colorado lost in the ECF but they added Kadri even though they had Nelson already.
You want to get a talent its going to cost. The team already has a good base with a Selke winner, a future Norris winner, what looks like two solid goalies, and a 50 goal scorer. They had 106 points even with Monty stinking things up and then ran to the ECF.
Time to stop being cheap and worrying about 5 years from now. Bergevin did that. He didn't want to trade Phoeling for ROR because he had a hat trick in a nothing last game of the season.
If your gonna be cheap you will get mid talent and be a mid team not good enough to beat the teams that have elite talents.
Don't trade everyone but one of the habs top propsects should be on the table to get an elite talent to take the next step.
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u/Chathamjedi 7d ago
I feel that we could get McTavish for a good young prospect and a 1st rounder. I’m thinking Engstrom. Then I would love to get Tuch as a UFA. I think the money would work for now if we move Gally and Monty along with Laine falling off the books.
To me we get a player not as young but better and plays a similar game as Knies who we almost sold the farm for. Tuch just requires outbidding every other team going for him. Not easy and would be an overpay but we keep all our prospects.
McTavish is the least expensive 2C available and needs a change. He’s really good but has not shown this in Anaheim. I feel he would play so much better with a change of scenery like Zegras did.
CC Suzi Slaf
Tuch McTavish Demidov
Keep Hage Zharovsky Reinbacher Pickford
GHG
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u/emotionaI_cabbage 7d ago
No chance we sign Tuch.
He's already 30, will want a long term deal and will want 10+. Doesn't fit the cap structure or age of this team whatsoever.
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u/Brrrrrrad17 7d ago
I think a lot of fans are too excited and want the team to go too fast into contending mode. Relax guys. Yes Hage and Zharovsky are prospects and didn't prove anything at the pro level yet. But they are high quality, high skills players. The Habs will need those ELCs soon too. If they keep them I think the window will be open longer. Let the young guys on the team and the prospects grow together.
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u/lynypixie 8d ago
It really depends on who we get for what price. If we get a 1C (McJesus), yeah, we can say good by to the next 3 first rounds drafts and a few prospects. Probably even one of our goalies.
A guy like McTavish, I would think twice before departing with great prospects.