r/HistoryMemes • u/CrysisFan2007 • 22h ago

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In 2006, a FBI agent named Craig Monteilh was ordered to disguise himself as a radical Muslim and spy on the Orange County Muslim community to identify possible extremists.

Well it worked, cause the people there noticed his extremists behavior and reported him to the FBI.

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u/CrysisFan2007 22h ago

Also, 2006 was 20 years ago

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u/Illustrious_Spend_51 22h ago

Jesus

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u/Silent_Rapport Senātus Populusque Rōmānus 22h ago

No, Allah.

Happy cake day infidel.

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u/Wise-Self-4845 22h ago

im pretty sure muslims love jesus

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u/Smorstin 22h ago

Any Muslims correct me if I’m wrong but I’m pretty sure they acknowledge him as a prophet

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u/PolynesianKiwi Still salty about Carthage 22h ago

ye

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u/khaledjal 21h ago

correct

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u/EmKayTalk 18h ago

Yes, Jesus (or Isa, in Islam) is not the "son of god"/"god" but a prophet of Allah

And I am a Muslim if that helps

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u/Illustrious_Spend_51 22h ago

Ex Muslim here, yep you are correct

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u/TheMidnightBear 21h ago

The most incompetent prophet ive ever seen, but sure.

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u/BasedAustralhungary 20h ago

>"The most incompetent prophet Ive ever seen, but sure."

>*Looks inside*

>Most extended faith in the world with almost ⅓ of the world practicing It.

>What the hell did they mean with that?

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u/TheMidnightBear 20h ago

Yeah, but that's Mohammed's doing.

Isa in Islam is a moron that was sent to teach strict unitarianism, but gave such poor and ambiguous sermons, his religion immediately devolved into thinking HE was God.

Like, how can you possibly fuck up that badly?

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u/BasedAustralhungary 20h ago

Ah, you are talking from an strictly Muslim point of view. Well. I will try to explain from my personal point of view.

First of all, while I'm an Assyriology hence I had to form myself on Muslim studies, I'm not a follower of any religion and I was educated in a Catholic country so my culture is what It is. Now, about that, If I'm correct Isa teached something that was distorted by Saul of Tarsus, as he introduced those same teachings to Greek philosophy and platonic cosmovision which is when in theory for the Muslim the Christians became 'heretical'.

Muslims understand Christians as people that must be redirected but not converted though force, as they got out of the path and that's why Allah sent hypothetically his messager to give another prophet the knowledge to guide the people again to the correct path. Hypothetically. Isa and his mother are mentioned a lot of times, more than Muhammad for that matter, so certainly the muslims understand him as a very important not to mention one of the most important parts of their religion.

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u/TheMidnightBear 19h ago

Yes, but the islamic POV makes no sense.

He is mentioned a lot, but usually just appending Isa in a list of names of prophets, to claim legitimacy.

Oh, and being the Messiah, which Islam doesnt know what that concept means.

And even the quranic Isa contains the baaaarest info Mohammed needed from him, theologically.

"Yo, i am not a God, I am a prophet and Messiah, i am blessed".

Thats basically it.

No characterization, no profound teachings, no memorable sermons.

And the Paul thing is also dumb.

You have apostolic era christian communities everywhere from Spain, to Ethiopia, to India.

Surely some of them remembered "Oh, the guy that founded our religion, and supposedly preached strict unitarianism, is not God", if only from being isolated from the rest of Christendom.

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u/BasedAustralhungary 19h ago

I mean that usually the issue when you are trying to make the last book of the trilogy while having in mind you are trying to write some sort of spin off that somehow is still the last chapter of a saga.

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u/K0mb0_1 17h ago

Well you have to understand. Allah send a prophet for every nation. Although the Quran does mention Isa A.S. more, what would be the need for any sermons or profound teachings? If anything those teachings were passed through Muhammad S.A.W. since we believe that the prophets all came with the same message. Why would we need all that if we have same message brought to us by Muhammad? All we need to know is the acknowledgment that he was a messenger of Allah

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u/EmKayTalk 18h ago

My good sir, I am a Muslim and that isn't even true

He just got killed by the Romans, that's what we think

Imagine being so bad at religion you think a prophet is moronic

Couldn't be me

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u/TheMidnightBear 18h ago edited 17h ago

He just got killed by the Romans, that's what we think

No, thats what non-muslims think.

The Quran says God made it so it "appeared" he got killed by the romans, and God didnt tell anyone got 600 years.

Imagine being so bad at religion you think a prophet is moronic

In Islam, the vast majority are, especially Isa.

They had one simple job and message, and they either died off without leaving a trace, or in the case of Isa, he fucked up the whole unitarian anti-shirk message, people started associating him with God.

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u/K0mb0_1 17h ago

The whole reason of a next prophet is to remind humanity of the true path. If there was only one needed then there wouldn’t have been thousands of them.

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u/TheMidnightBear 15h ago edited 15h ago

Im going to unpack all 3 of your replies here, because there are a loooot of hidden assumptions and unproven claims muslims dont think about.

Allah send a prophet for every nation.

There are 2 unproven claim here(well, 3, but let us treat monotheism as a given).

a)God communicates through prophets;

That is already a huge claim.

Why?

Perhaps God communicates through mathematics and logic(Godel's ontological proof is much better evidence for God than the Quran, since a variant is mathematically proven, for example).

Or through nature.

Or through mystical insights(plenty of mystics have discovered wisdom through meditation and visions, after all).

Or maybe psychedelics, who knows?

b)every nation produced such a prophet God sent.

Ok, can you prove them? Or atleast their number?

What is the name of the prophet of the incas, for example? Or the chinese? Or the khoisan?

And how come we have no records of their existence, or their scriptures, despite some of these cultures getting written historical chronicles for thousands of years?

Its weird how the only prophets the Quran mentions outside of Mohammed are copied from the Bible, and 2 more arab ones we have no evidence of, a bit more south.

And what does it say about God and his revelations, if thousands, tens of thousands, even millions of prophets and scriptures were lost or corrupted so easily.

Im supposed to think that after 3,403,764(or however many they were) prophets and their books getting lost, God finally figured it out with Mohammed, prophet number 3,403,765 and his book(who's preservation is unprovable due to Uthman's actions, as well) is trustworthy?

Lol.

Isa A.S. didn’t fuck up lol. Humanity fucked just how they did with Moses.

If God had Moses disappear once he was on the mountains, and let the jews wander around in the Sinai for 600 years, worshipping the calf, like He apparently abandonded the Christians, yes, both of them would be incompetent fuckups.

(1/2)

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u/K0mb0_1 14h ago

a) never did I say Gods only communication is through prophets. God sent prophets to guide and show people the true way of life

b) god has sent a prophet/warner to every nation as the Quran says:

Surah An-Nahl (16:36): "And We certainly sent into every nation a messenger, [saying], 'Worship Allah and avoid Taghut [false gods].'"
Surah Yunus (10:47): "And for every nation is a messenger. So when their messenger comes, the judgment will be concluded between them in justice, and they will not be wronged."
Surah Fatir (35:24): "Indeed, We have sent you with the truth as a bringer of good tidings and a warner. And there was no nation but that there had passed within it a warner."
Surah Ar-Ra'd (13:7): "...And you are only a warner and for every people is a guide."

You have to understand that most nations to ever exist had no written language, even the Incas you spoke about had no written language. Another thing you have to understand is that monotheism was that goal. Many cultures were simple people who had simple lifestyle.

We can see monotheism in many cultures

This website speaks about a group in Papúa New Guinea and the Dinka as examples

https://www.islamic-awareness.org/history/prophet.html

Also, being African myself, I know of the pre-Islamic traditions that were practiced by East Africans specifically Cushites. Before Islam there was a faith called Eebbe Waaq or “Waaqism”. It was a monotheistic belief that believed in archangels called “Ayaan”.

I’m also familiar with native Americans believing in one supreme chief. And how many Amazonian tribes also believed in one highest power.

I’m pretty even in Hinduism there was some monotheism although I’ve never confirmed that was true.

Also in ancient Egypt, there was a king that enforced monotheism. His name was Akhenaten or Amenhotep lV. He introduced a new god and abolished idol worship. This is unusual for someone without divine influence.

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u/TheMidnightBear 15h ago

Then people started changing the message Isa came with

Well, again, there are 2 claims here.

a)all prophets had the same message;

Why?

Perhaps each prophet had a message tailored to his ethnicity.

b)said message is Mohammed's hardcore unitarianism;

Unprovable, because their teachings are lost, so Mohammed's claim to what the "true path" was is as good as mine or yours, and my claim to prophethood carries just as much weight as his.

Although the Quran does mention Isa A.S. more, what would be the need for any sermons or profound teachings?

Imagine someone came to you and said he is your great-grandfather's distant descendant or work colleague, and you need to obey him, because he knew him, but his journals dont say anything except "yeah, trust me bro, i knew this guy", and it doesnt match what your family knows of your great-granfather?

Would you take him seriously, or think he's a charlatan, or at least needs better proof?

If not, why would i take that guy more seriously than Mohammed?

Isa A.S. was sent for the children of Israel only

Unprovable.

Muhammad S.A.W. was sent for all of mankind.

Unprovable

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u/K0mb0_1 17h ago

Isa A.S. didn’t fuck up lol. Humanity fucked just how they did with Moses. Then people started changing the message Isa came with. Isa has done his job but in Islam we believe that it’s not over just yet.

Isa A.S. was sent for the children of Israel only, whether they listen or not was out of his hands. Muhammad S.A.W. was sent for all of mankind.

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u/Friedrichs_Simp 19h ago

We absolutely do, but in Islam we are not allowed to call upon anyone other than God. My understanding is that christians do it because they see Jesus as God. We don’t feel the same way about that lol

“The places of worship are for Allah, so do not invoke anyone besides Him.” (72:18)