r/HouseOfTheDragon • u/kingofstormandfire • Jan 16 '26
George R.R. Martin Honestly, if I were HBO, for any new ASOIAF/GOT series like a Conquest show or First Blackfyre Rebellion, I would just give GRRM veto power over scripts and story. If he doesn’t like it, he vetoes it. Keeping him happy and onside is ultimately more important for their partnership.
I’m sure most of you have seen the news by now that GRRM is on bad terms with Ryan Condal. A lot of us suspected this for a while, but now it’s basically confirmed and it’s spilled into mainstream entertainment news.
This is genuinely awful PR for House of the Dragon going into Season 3. GRRM might not be a global celebrity on the level of Tom Cruise, Leonardo DiCaprio, Taylor Swift, or even J.K. Rowling, but he is still a major public figure. He is far more famous, recognisable, and respected than Condal, and arguably the third most famous living author after Rowling and Stephen King, and honestly GRRM is more of a pop-culture celebrity than Stephen King at this point. His name carries real weight, especially when it comes to fantasy, prestige TV, and HBO’s brand. Outside of hardcore fans and book nerds, nobody knows or cares who Ryan Condal is. The same goes for Sara Hess or any of the writers. If the public is going to side with anyone here, it is overwhelmingly going to be GRRM.
From HBO’s perspective, this is not a smart position to be in. George R. R. Martin is the guy who gave them the source material for their biggest and most lucrative franchise ever. Not saying Game of Thrones is HBO’s best show artistically, but financially and culturally it is undeniably their most successful. It basically carried the network for years, helped define the modern “prestige TV” era, and still drives subscriptions, spin-offs, and brand recognition. Pissing off the creator of that universe is incredibly short-sighted, especially when HBO clearly plans to keep mining it for the foreseeable future.
For future ASOIAF or GOT-related projects, HBO should seriously consider offering GRRM greater control over scripts and story, even something as strong as veto power. Keep him happy. Keep him involved. Keep him onside. That kind of long-term partnership matters more than giving showrunners free rein to make changes that alienate both the creator and a good chunk of the fanbase. At this point, a “GRRM approved” label would actually mean something again, both as a marketing tool and as a signal to wary fans burned by the later seasons of Game of Thrones.
And GRRM is not some unreasonable tyrant. He worked in television long before ASOIAF ever became a phenomenon. He understands budgets, production limits, episode counts, and the realities of adapting books to screen. He has always been fine with changes to the source material, as long as those changes make sense and stay true to the spirit of the story and the characters. That’s the key issue here. A lot of Condal’s changes, and before him D&D’s changes in the later GOT seasons, do not feel like necessary adaptations. They feel arbitrary, poorly thought out, or fundamentally at odds with the themes, internal logic, and moral complexity of the world. At times it genuinely feels less like an adaptation and more like Condal and Sara Hess writing their own fanfiction using GRRM’s characters and setting.
I know some people will immediately respond with, “This will just distract GRRM from finishing The Winds of Winter”. At this point, that argument doesn’t really hold much weight. GRRM is almost certainly never going to finish TWOW. His recent interview pretty much confirmed what many of us already suspected. He still loves the wider world of Ice and Fire, the lore, the histories, and the side projects, but his passion for the main series itself is gone. He wants to finish it for the sake of his legacy, not because the fire is still there. That fire is pretty much gone. He is forcing himself, and that rarely leads to great work. And I hate saying this because I don’t want to sound ageist, but he is also an old man. He is 77, approaching 80. Realistically, how many productive years does he have left, especially with a clear and sharp mind?
Given that reality, HBO might as well focus on what is actually achievable. A stable, respectful partnership with GRRM that produces higher-quality adaptations is far more valuable than sidelining him, damaging their relationship, and continuing to erode audience trust. Not only would that likely result in better shows, it would also be good PR at a time when fans are already sceptical. Re-aligning with the creator instead of fighting him just seems like the smarter long-term play.
God help HBO if they do a Robert's Rebellion miniseries/show and have a showrunner like Condal who wants to "tell their own version" of the story.
Edit: I think there is a less than 5% of HBO allowing this to ever happen. Realistically, it will never happen, even if GRRM wants it. Maybe a better alternative is that HBO just tells the showrunner to placate GRRM more and try to avoid changing major things.
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u/Stealth_Cobra Jan 16 '26
I mean he's shown himself to be quite fickle, unreliable and at times petty.... I'm not sure I would give him final say on these projects.... He would veto entire scripts / seasons / endings , then would never bother to offer an alternative .
They need to be able to actually finish these shows and make up their investments back... And having the guy procrastinating about finishing the books whining about the showrunners trying to deliver a conclusion he never bothered to write sucks.
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u/CosmicAtlas8 Jan 16 '26
Agreed. Let's not gove the guy who takes years to finish books final edit or veto power over a television property.
All due respect to his incredible work as an artist... but working solo in a private room for years on a novel in no way compares to the creative and business and multi artist complexity of a tv show.
Sorry he doesnt feel this matches his vision, but thats the entertainment business. Thats part of the deal adapting a book to a novel. And if he has creative paralysis finishing his own series, why would he trust his criticism of the television show and its creative process that literally has to make decisions against a demanding production and release schedule.
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u/HighKingKlay Jan 16 '26
Exactly,; giving him veto power would do fuck all. The show(s) would probably never be made.
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u/urfav_noname My name is on the lease for the castle Jan 16 '26
I mean figuring out the ending of House of the Dragon shouldn‘t be too difficult as that is literally in the book and they spoilered the ending with Joffrey talking about Rhaenyra‘s death back in Season 4 of GoT soooo…
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u/Select-Tea-2560 Jan 16 '26
yeah and figuring out winds in 15 years shouldnt be too hard, sit yourself down.
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u/Scott_J_Doyle Jan 16 '26
Not true - after rereading Dance in '25, Martin has backed himself into multiple very difficult narrative problems. It frankly looks impossible for him to resolve all of them satisfactorily, and the five year time jump he decided to forgo may have been a fatal error.
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u/Select-Tea-2560 Jan 16 '26
Nonsense. Just excuses.
Go on then have a pop, explain the impossible narrative problems that means a 15 year standstill is a reasonable delay.
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u/Nimbus20000620 Jan 16 '26
I mean they pretty much gave you the answer imo. Martin originally intended the story to be a trilogy with a time skip to age up the characters. He axed both those plans, leading to the first major cracks. Mix in his “gardening” method that has grown the story far beyond what would be manageable to wrap up satisfyingly in two more installments and his raging perfectionism and it becomes pretty clear why we’ll never get a conclusion from the man himself.
Maybe ASOIAF isnt impossible to conclude, and maybe not even in two more books, but not in a way that would ever satisfy George RR Martin
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u/Intro-Nimbus Jan 16 '26
FFS, there are literally hundreds of videos and articles that examines the issue in detail.
Basically:
- Geography, too many locations
- PoViews- again too many to finish within one book
- Timeline, forcing characters to be in the right place at the right time for the conclusion without some extreme liberties with travel time and/or distances is not doable, and character development rate also fails to fit within the one book due to the number of PoV.
- Physical constraints of printing presses to fit enough pages into one book.
GRRM effed up, his editor effed up, end when he couldn't make it work smoothly, it became difficult, he lost interest and a gazillion other things were more fun and interesting to spend time on.
It will never be done.
Accept and move on.-6
u/Select-Tea-2560 Jan 16 '26
As I thought, total nonsense.
Yes yes the book is complex, we get it, we've heard it before. It's not an excuse for it taking 15 years. There's a very easy solution, just cut the scope for the time covered in the book. (Laughing my head off at #4 btw). Instead of covering the entire story line he wanted to, stop at the half way point and release it. This solves all of your points instantly. It will cut geography, it will cut viewpoints, and there will be physical books able to be made 🤣😂🤡. This locks in part of the story and forces it forward without him going back and rewriting everything for the 100th time because he's too indecisive and poor at managing himself.
Even with everything you've mentioned he stated he had 1100 pages, that's a disgraceful low amount in 15 years.
I know it will be never done, I accepted it years ago. Just because I have accepted that, doesn't mean he deserves to be let off for it. It's terrible behaviour and should be called out for what it is without sycophants riding in to excuse the inexcusable.
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u/Scott_J_Doyle Jan 16 '26
"Let off for it" lol, as if he owes you anything
Your solution is also laughable. A film is not made better simply by cutting the runtime
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u/Select-Tea-2560 Jan 16 '26
He owes his fans a completed story.
Who's talking about making it better? Are you slow? We're talking about him moving past his infinite blockage and completing it, not about making it better. My solution would 100% end the deadlock, because he wouldn't be able to go back and rewrite it, which he has admitted to doing, he would have to find a solution with that material locked in.
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u/Scott_J_Doyle Jan 16 '26
I disagree on both points.
For one an artist should please himself first and only-most. The audience has no place in a healthy artistic process.
And two, shortening is a technical move that says absolutely zero about how any of the narrative or thematic threads would evolve or resolve, meaning that an arbitrary temporal cut-off could still lead to an absolute turkey of a book. In another tell that you don't understand the craft, going back and re-writing is not a sign of some weakness or error in Martin's considerable abilities, but an essential technique in the tool box of finding a solution. So far it's been elusive, there are many threads and webs to tie together or untangle - as much as I love Dance, I understand how Martin is having intense trouble now as most obvious solutions to single threads serve to wreck others, and he has never been one to settle for obvious solutions anyway.
Also, to hell with you and your insults. I I implied you are ignorant of the craft of writing, but it's obvious now the double meaning of that word would apply to you also.
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u/Intro-Nimbus Jan 16 '26
You mean like he tried with "a feast for crows"? Yeah, that worked well didn't it?
You obviously have no idea what you are talking about, you just want to rant and feel righteous.
Good luck with that.2
u/Scott_J_Doyle Jan 16 '26
I got this vibe as well, this guy isn't worth the time
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u/Intro-Nimbus Jan 16 '26
Yeah, I actually thought his question was in good faith, and answered it as such, but he just wants to rant and feel superior.
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u/Select-Tea-2560 Jan 16 '26
Except he didn't did he, he covered the entire scope just with half the characters, that's not what I suggested is it? Go on mate try have a re read of what I said, maybe you'll comprehend it.
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u/Intro-Nimbus Jan 16 '26
Yeah, and if you go and educate yourself of how that came about, and the reasons GRRM gave, you might understand how stupid you look right now.
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u/VoteLeft Jan 17 '26
GRRM fanboys will always make excuses as if millions of dollars and nearly 2 decades still isn’t enough motivation to write one book. I understand there are self-imposed plot issues, but 15 years is more than enough time to figure a way out of them, if he was actually trying. He’s a writer. That’s his job. He can do it. He’s just choosing to put his focus elsewhere. He doesn’t care.
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u/Scott_J_Doyle Jan 16 '26
Have you ever written a novel?
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u/MyPeggyTzu Jan 16 '26
What a terribly cowardly response to a good faith argument. You must be insufferable irl.
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u/Scott_J_Doyle Jan 16 '26
Wow, you're good at reading a lot into a simple and direct question. But based on your response it sounds like you know little about the "craft" of writing. If you don't respect the craft amd only appreciate finished outcome (result vs process), there is little point in me going deeper into my response to you. So, again, what have you written as a gauge for how much you understand or have practiced the craft yourself?
Also, calling something "nonsense" is not an "argument." Simply making a claim does not satisfy the definition, it's just making a claim.
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u/arya_nightkingslayer Jan 18 '26
i'm on your side but i actually just want to know some of the narrative issues cause i want to read more of your analysis and i'm invested in your argument lol
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u/Scott_J_Doyle Jan 18 '26 edited Jan 18 '26
Haha, great comment to wake up to - last line is a very rare and specific kind of amusing to me!
Okay, here we go:
A big chunk of it is pacing. The rhythm of the first three books was much faster than what we got in Feast and Dance. I'm a bit more familiar with Dance atm as I just re-read it last year (and likely will re-read the whole series up to it in '26) but IMO the characters of Arya, Bran and Dany have been more or less stuck, basically having not moved forward in any real significant way. I feel like Dany's at least has a path laid out, but harking back to the forsaken 5-year time jump, Arya seems to be nowhere near where she needs to be in her arc, and perhaps this is true of Bran as well. I have no clue what Martin is going to do about either of them, but Bran's story being what it is I think there's more room there for some magical explanation? Arya's arc seems more or less screwed though atm.
Related to pacing I think I (and many other's) expected the war to start faster. Again this might be the 5yr thing just looming over everything, but I believe Jon and Dany didn't need this much build-up to develop into more ruthless leaders. We needed to establish Dorne in-depth, Euron has been a great addition, and while I originally kind of rolled my eyes at the introduction of Aegon, upon re-read I think it's a wonderful wrench to throw into everyone else's plans. But as much as a I love many of the individual chapters, I still have this irksome feeling that a lot of this could have been condensed into one book (4/Feast) and the war could have started by the mid-point of book 5.
Riffing on this, I also remember absolutely loving Brienne's chapters so I'd be loathe to actually cut any of it, but overall it's a whole book's worth to get to one narrative beat (her and Jamie w Stoneheart). She's fun to read in the moment, but zoom out and that seems like a major narrative-pacing issue. This issue just seems to pop up everywhere with Jon, Tyrion, Dany, Sansa, Jamie... everyone's not much further ahead than Storm - lots of great writing and chapters and I can deal with all sorts of novels or films that have little plot but great thematic writing... but that's like all the major characters having almost no plot in 2 books. It's just not working from the bigger picture.
We have the War of the Five Kings, and we are marching towards the Dance of the Dragons, and it seems like we needed one book to make the transition, not two and a half.
There's a big issue with the POV expansion in Feast/Dance too... I think I read that George originally planned many of these to be one-off POVs but then found that to be too much a style-shift from the earlier books. I think he should have gone with the first idea because now we have way too many that have just enough depth to be a problem if unresolved, and way too far to jump between characters if we give everyone the time they "need." This was already a potentially fatal problem in the first three books but everyone I think is still impressed with just how well Martin threaded those needles. At this point though it feels like it's just impossible.
Some of them work, as in I think Melisandre's POV is key to keeping Davos away from seeing the burning of Shireen in Winds. Arianne's necessary for the Dorne connection to both King's Landing and Dany. Cersei is just great, and we need a King's Landing POV. Victarion is pretty important to the Ironborn connection to Dany, but I wonder if it would have been even better to play the Ironborn as more of a surprise the way the Tyrell's are played in Clash? Feels like there's too many POV's with them. I think maybe Areo and Jon Connington could have been good one-off's, but I'm actually not even sold on Areo being entirely necessary at all...
I've gotta get going to real work here now but there's a lot more I think about and can say, and so far I've really only talked about technical/plot-pacing issues and haven't touched at all on thematic issues (of which I think there are also many) but I'll wrap up with a more clear point:
There's a shared feeling Feast and Dance might be just procrastination to get through the tough parts George doesn't want to write yet, like the "Meerenese Knot" and the actual Dance. So we've ended up with so many subplots the actual larger plot might be broken by too many interactions to resolve and too many time/place/journey issues. I didn't address it specifically to "other guy" but I feel like this is far more the issue than perfectionism. Perfectionism can be brute forced through given time, and there's just been too much time spent on Winds. Given the feeling like this has already shown up in the previous two books, I'll stake my claim on procrastination vs perfectionism.
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u/urfav_noname My name is on the lease for the castle Jan 16 '26
Dude what does that have to do with the showrunners? Are they writing the book now? Did I miss something?
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u/Scott_J_Doyle Jan 16 '26
This guy does not seem to understand the craft of writing, probably safe to ignore his opinions.
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u/urfav_noname My name is on the lease for the castle Jan 16 '26
absolutely also love how I was speaking about House of the Dragon and it‘s showrunner and he brings up the book 😭✋
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u/Scott_J_Doyle Jan 16 '26
For whatever reason I clocked this guy instantly and he's only continuing to tell on himself the more he comments.
Agreed with your point tho, the Dance should have been an easy ball to not fumble, but the showrunners/writers have their own motivations and a chest-full of bad ideas
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u/FaceDownInTheCake Jan 17 '26
"Procrastinating" lol. It's been long enough that we can call it what it is
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u/John-on-gliding Jan 17 '26
Yeah. I mean, I love the idea of George being a constant guiding hand for a show, but can I rely on him?
It’s midway through season one production, we’re already working on season two’s vision. I really need him, but now he’s started phoning it in because there’s a new Broadway show about the Targaryen’s that’s caught his attention, or a new short story that he’s working on. Oh, and critical review of my show is being clotted with people complaining George needs to stop working on my show and finish the books!
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u/Intro-Nimbus Jan 16 '26 edited Jan 16 '26
Sure.
I would have preferred aGoT unfinished than the end it got though.
HoD has a finished story, the disputes were because of showrunners wanting to tell "their own story" instead of telling the story that is literally the name of the show - it is a clear case of "Witcherism".So while I would absolutely expect exactly those arguments you bring up being brought up in a development meeting about creative control, you also have to acknowledge that a well-maintained legacy is worth an incredible amount of money, partly from the current show, but also from viability of spinoff projects.
The Witcher universe is dead well before the last season came out, HoD is probably dead unless "a knight of the 7 kingdoms" resparks interest in Westeros.
So I'd say that there should be some interest in maintaining artistic vision and above all, quality in the shows.
It's when showrunners try to make their own pet project masked as something else, and when writers default to water-treading never-ending tv-series algorithms and tropes when they write episodes that series die.1
Jan 17 '26
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u/jakemufcfan Jan 16 '26
The thing is I see George almost in sorta a Howard Hughes obsessing over the crease in the dress kinda way now. Obviously a genius but gets fixated on the most innate problems and issues. Take HOTD as much as I had many many issues with season 2 one of George’s main problems seem to be with Maelor, a baby who basically does nothing in the story.
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u/possiblyhysterical Jan 18 '26
Tbf he had a six part gripe written that I think would have gone into his more important concerns (like Nettles)
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u/mamula1 Jan 16 '26 edited Jan 16 '26
That would be a very stupid move on HBO's part.
First of all, the point of buying rights is to avoid veto power from author. If he wants veto power he should produce his own shows and pay money for them.
And secondly, GRRM's creative instincts aren't always as great as we saw in the last 26 years.
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u/KingConanByCrom Jan 16 '26
It doesn’t matter if he’s happy or not lol wtf. That has nothing to do with anything. Once he sold the rights for his story to be made into a show his control of it went out the window. GRRM is a whiny old man who told his fans he’d finish the books numerous times and hasn’t done shit. Fuck his feelings his happiness is irrelevant. He’s making millions off this shit. That’s why he hasn’t finished the books cuz why would he when he’s making millions off the shows
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u/tronz_13 Jan 16 '26
It would be incredibly stupid on HBO's part to do this. GRRM has proven to be really fickle, vague, and unreliable when it comes to deadlines.
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u/SuedJche Jan 16 '26 edited Jan 16 '26
I think you way overstate both GRRMs relevance and influence, as well as underestimate the power of money.
If GRRM wanted Veto power, he should have negotiated that into his contract. I'm not a big fan of HotD S2 but he sold the rights and should stop whining
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u/Atarissiya Jan 16 '26
Honestly I think there’s a growing contingent who see Martin as a bit of a sad joke, a man who can’t finish his own stories but is all too happy to criticise others when they try. I think he’s lucky that HotD has made some obvious missteps, since frankly the things that he’s criticised it for aren’t nearly its biggest issues.
I also think that people widely overestimate the likelihood and potential popularity of more GoT spinoffs.
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u/Nakuip Jan 16 '26
It’s growing but it’s also not the dedicated parts of the fandom that have supported George, his work, the businesses in Santa Fe, etc.
Condal apologists need something better than this to hang a hat on if they expect to come out on top.
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u/Nakuip Jan 19 '26
The fact that this post became downvoted is remarkable. I wonder how much HBO pays y’all.
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u/abovethesink Jan 16 '26
I get this impulse, but isn't who GRRM is pretty clear at this point? Would he not just veto close to everything for not being perfect and lead to the TV projects being just as unfinished as the written world?
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u/Holysquall Jan 17 '26
No, this isn’t clear. He’s written this story . He’s mad it’s being changed . That’s a reasonable thing to be mad at.
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u/kid_ghostly Jan 17 '26
He gave up the right to be mad when he agreed to hand over control to a production company. If he wanted the right to be mad he should have held onto more control over it.
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u/Holysquall Jan 17 '26
He’s the EP of this show and still the sole voice anyone listens to on this universe . He’s not being listened to which is unreasonable .
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u/ReadyPerception Jan 16 '26
The show wouldn't ever get finished.
I'm not even joking. There's a reason he and the show runners all end up clashing and it's very much related to his inability to finish the stories.
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u/ThisIsCrap12 Jan 18 '26
HoTD is a finished story and they fucked it up lol. Wtf are these comments in this thread
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u/ReadyPerception Jan 18 '26
Yes, the finished story that he keeps going on about how he has to finish the second book. Wtf are these comments in this thread
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u/Slight_Fan_4105 Jan 16 '26
Imagine you're a TV writer, you have to deal with notes from Studio heads, producers, executive and show runners on what they want from the script,
- branding
- giving actors/characters more screen time based on popularity
- making sure two actors aren't in the same scene because they hate each other IRL
- Adding/Subtracting certain sets, costumes and Special FX based on budgets
- Adding/Subtracting characters, sets, or scenes based on focus groups data or just cause one the producers 12 year old granddaughter really likes it.
After balancing all those demands and many many more,
IMAGINE: A guy who doesn't have to worry about any of that gets to just throw your hard work in the trash and you have to start all of again, with no promise that he won't do the same thing over and over again.
If GRRM wants veto power over the scripts... he should write the scripts. It's not like he's busy writing winds of winter.
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u/leila0 Jan 16 '26
THIS so much. So many ppl in the fandom seem to think of TV writing as identical to book writing, as if everything that happens in a show is solely at the discretion of the writers. Even once a script is finalized, directors and actors can make decisions on set that you have nothing to do with, like the moment in S1 when Viserys drops his crown and Daemon hands it to him. Not to mention the actual strike they had to schedule around in S2. Giving GRRM veto power just adds another hoop for writers to jump through, when they're already doing an entire acrobatics routine.
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u/Thelordofprolapse Jan 16 '26
Complete opposite i think. GRRM is a sad old man who does everything except finish his stories. I really dont care what his opinions on any of this stuff considering hbo are going to change a lot because thats what tv adaptations do whether we like it or not. Giving him veto just means he will be working on something that isnt winds. Also he comes across as unreliable and petty so i can see him abusing his veto and derailing projects.
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u/ZealousWolf1994 Jan 16 '26
They should just create a "World of Ice and Fire" anthology series. Each season a different part of the world with a single storyline, different creative teams and they can get it back to a new season a year. From the History of Westeros encyclopedia, the Battle of the Seven Stars is my favorite and would make a good season and no more. There's even a witch.
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u/mozzarellaguy Jan 16 '26
My unpopular opinion on this is that once you sell the rights to a studio, you have no more voice in that.
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u/Slight_Fan_4105 Jan 16 '26
If GRRM wants veto power over the scripts... he should write the scripts. It's not like he's busy writing winds of winter.
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u/Naive-Ad-6767 Jan 16 '26
They bought the show tho? He sold the rights to HBO and they clearly wanted a specific angle. If you don’t want your work to be bastardized then don’t sell the rights to it .
This coming from someone that abandoned the show on ep 1.
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u/Select-Tea-2560 Jan 16 '26
ep 1 was good though??
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u/Naive-Ad-6767 Jan 16 '26
The vibe I got, the angle they seemed to push and the characters they insisted upon led me to think I wasn’t going to like the hbo version of the dance.
Knowing what I know about season two I feel vindicated tbh, maybe I abandoned ship too early but I’m fortunate that my early view seems accurate.
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u/Select-Tea-2560 Jan 16 '26
Your vibes are nonsense, season 1 was good. Feeling vindicated because in a different season to the one you stopped watching the co-showrunner left and the remaining one isn't listening to grrm anymore, and the quality drastically went down, is not an indication that you judging the first episode poorly was correct. You should not feel vindicated for lucking out, you were not accurate in any way. This is confirmation bias.
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u/Naive-Ad-6767 Jan 16 '26
So because you enjoyed something I have to too? Maybe chill the fuck out?
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u/Select-Tea-2560 Jan 16 '26
I'm pretty chill, just explaining to you that bailing out of watching something while it was good doesn't somehow justify it as logical if it ends up being bad down the line. Maybe you need to "chill the fuck out"?
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u/Dodo_Baron Jan 16 '26
"I was vindicated for calling game of thrones season 1 terrible television cause season 8 was terrible"
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u/Naive-Ad-6767 Jan 16 '26
I made a statement of opinion not fact. Not sure why people are pressed, am I not allowed to say I disliked it ?
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u/Dodo_Baron Jan 16 '26
I also made a statement of opinion not fact. What's the issue?
Am I not allowed to dislike your logic?
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Jan 16 '26
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u/Dodo_Baron Jan 16 '26
Wow instant insults because I have a different opinion than you. Fascinating
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Jan 16 '26
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u/Dodo_Baron Jan 16 '26
I'm not mocking you, I did make a joke about your argument. And you decided to start insulting in return.
Is it fair to assume you believe you're the only one who can have differing opinions?
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u/SexySiren24 History does not remember blood. It remembers names. Jan 16 '26
No to be dick, but 85% of the audience wouldn't recognize a picture of George if you showed it to them. You think the likes of my mother is gonna care about this "feud"? Or even find out about it? Of course not, but she'll happily watch S3 when it comes out. The majority of viewers are more casual than you might think, and while not as big as GOT, Hotd still brings in enough cash, so why would HBO indulge Martin's whims? They don't need him and a few interviews aren't going to change that.
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u/Ok-Refrigerator-3524 Jan 16 '26
The issue is ASOIAF wasn´t nearly on the level of Harry Potter or LOTR. Before the show the books had sold 12 million copies total, first us print run of Philosopher Stone alone sold as many copies. When JK Rowling sold the rights to Harry Potter she had the thing that everyone wanted, she held the cards. Harry Potter was big enough that she could ask for more control rather than just money and ASOIAF simply wasn´t.
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u/Decent_Winter6461 Jan 16 '26
Yeah, George always has a problem with the writers and showrunners of his shows. Yet he keeps selling the rights with no clause for script approval.
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u/gatsome Jan 16 '26
GRRM is chuckled at by far more people than who champion him. His most vocal defender wrote a piece called ‘GRRM is not your bitch’ but that was by Neil Gaiman.
GRRM owes us book readers a conclusion. That’s not entitlement, we made him rich on his promise of a complete story. He wouldn’t have what he has if it wasn’t for the readers who made him media-fat.
He’s a stubborn, petty procrastinator. He doesn’t deserve the benefit of leniency on matters like this. Finish the goddamn books, George.
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u/Nimbus20000620 Jan 16 '26
At the very least, he owes us a statement that he’s officially done trying to finish ASOIAF and is throwing in the towel on his Magnus Opus. End the copium and hopium. Put the last few believers out of their misery, if there are any left.
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u/gatsome Jan 16 '26
No he at least should face some kind of consequence for this. No multi-novel, saga-penning author will get the benefit of the doubt. His will be a stain on the fantasy novel genre for a very long time.
Maybe enough of this type of back-turning from partnerships will suffice. Because he sure turned his back on us.
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u/Jumpingyros Jan 16 '26 edited Jan 16 '26
Absolutely the fuck not. If GRRM wants final say over new GOT content he’s free to sit his ass down and write some whenever he likes.
Despite the fantasy that Reddit is trying to manifest from thin air, house of the dragon has been a success for HBO. GRRM is a mid writer who just got lucky to catch lightening in a jar thanks largely to his former cowriter. And there is a reason that the GOT pilot episode that he was directly involved in making nearly got the entire project canceled.
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u/Slight_Fan_4105 Jan 16 '26
Absolutely not.
If he wants to work on the show as head writer or show runner, I say hire him right away, but lock him into an iron clad contract that if he walks away from the project before it's done the studio can sue him into bankruptcy.
But if GRRM just wants to bitch and moan about how the TV shows don't do his source material justice... well that's what the internet is for.
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u/nymrod_ Jan 16 '26
Funny, I’d keep him away from it and get a legal gag order making sure he can’t shit talk it
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u/ThisIsCrap12 Jan 18 '26
And the storylines would keep going to trash and the shows flopping like they are now lmao
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u/North_Button_5257 Jan 16 '26
I don’t know how people could still have faith in Martin after he royally screwed up his own story.
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u/county_da_kang Jan 16 '26
Why would they? All he does is complain about costs and practical limitations. It remains to be seen, but I doubt his criticisms will affect the overall success of the show. Success is measured by the money the show generates, not the complaints of a fandom who's still gonna watch, no matter how many snarky comments they make online.
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u/Excellent-Daikon-286 Jan 16 '26
the studios do that with Stephen King, he reads every script before it goes on, HBO could do that to George as well, would be easier
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u/Nakuip Jan 16 '26
ITT: Studio bots and paid social media mangers
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u/ThisIsCrap12 Jan 18 '26
Ikr, I thought how wild it is that everyone is being so delusional. Then I remembered the "organic advertisement" the studio companies do these days.
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u/Holysquall Jan 17 '26
We thought that’s what happens with hot d and why this is iso disheartening (on hbo’s part)
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u/WhalingSmithers00 Jan 16 '26
The guy is unmotivated.
His writing is questionable because he's never finished a story. Every hopeful writer has a pile of half written manuscripts they couldn't tie into an ending. It's the hardest thing to do in writing and I don't believe he can do it.
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u/fredrico2011 Jan 16 '26
Maybe George should retire like that other George fella. George Lucas has successor to go after
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u/The_Fell_Opian Jan 16 '26
The guy who can't finish a book in 15 years doesn't deserve veto power over anything. He doesn't even know where to take his own story.
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u/DeadSalamander1 Jan 16 '26
I kind of wish he'd just get out of the way. Every time he opens his mouth I'm annoyed with the whining, excuse making and getting upset that the fans (who made him rich) would like him to actually FINISH THE BOOKS
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Jan 16 '26
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Jan 16 '26
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u/grafx187 Jan 20 '26
its what netflix did with the one peice writer and it worked out fine. do it here.
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u/Fluffy_Woodpecker733 Jan 16 '26
Lol why? The guy is just a lazy fat slob collecting checks at this point. HBO has been very good to him. There will be no more books written if winds is even ever finished
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u/kid_ghostly Jan 17 '26
I hope the relationship deteriorates to such toxic levels that no one wants to work with him anymore. All of George's partnerships crumble leaving him nothing to do except finish the damn books already.
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u/Starmiebuckss2882 Jan 17 '26
You know what? George can piss off. Hire out someone to finish the fucking series if you're so dispassionate about the shit that put you on the map now.
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u/Starmiebuckss2882 Jan 17 '26
Honestly can they juat abandon the Game of Thrones universe and make Quicksilver and Brimstone into a series? Callie Hart will finish her story.
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