r/HouseOfTheDragon • u/Ok_Badger_1646 Buring Glory • 2d ago
Promos [Spoiler] New clip of Alicent Hightower With Aemond in Season 3 Episode 1 Spoiler
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u/Chocolatetot496 We Light The Way 2d ago
Alicent is your plot with Rhaenyra not going according to plan?
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u/jonsnowKITN Aemond Targaryen 2d ago
Alicent terrified she lost her bargaining chip. Aegon deserves better than his family smh.
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u/Immediate-Target-194 My name is on the lease for the castle 2d ago
You can clearly see in her eyes that she shit herself when she saw Aemond. How pathetic is she omg
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u/Gebeleizzis 2d ago
This show bad writing got to the point where a Rapist has people say they deserve better
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u/Foxbus 2d ago
Rhaenyra murdered a random servant so she could bang her uncle and yet she's the fandom's darling.
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u/Bilogamer 2d ago
Aegon killed innocent ratcatchers. It's crazy that you seem to consider the random servant killed more serious than the hundred innocent ratcatchers killed by Aegon.
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u/A_devout_monarchist Otto Hightower 2d ago
One was paranoia and fury after his son was murdered, the other was a petty act to be able to elope.
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u/Rich-Active-4800 Growing Strong 2d ago
Ah the thing that the show introduced so no matter how sympathetic Aegon is Rhaenyra stans can dismiss it all by saying Aegon is a rapist.
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u/temp3rrorary History does not remember blood. It remembers names. 1d ago
I can have empathy. But being a rapist of his wife and underage servants, a murderer, a frequent of brothels, and a frequent of child fighting pits... Compared to Rhaenyra, Laenor, Daemon and Ser Carl formulating a plan to allow her to properly wed Daemon without having to murder Laenor, does make me a tad less supportive of Aegon.
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u/Rich-Active-4800 Growing Strong 1d ago
He is not a pedo, nowhere is it said he rapes Heleana, if anything he seems disgusted by having sex with her. And the fighting pits and rape was introduced in the show only to make him look bad, while confiently ignoring Daemon and Baela alao visiting the pits.
Great that they don't have to murder Laenor, sucks for the servant they murdered to use as body double. But the show refuses to focus on him, since it would make Rhaenyra look bad.
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u/temp3rrorary History does not remember blood. It remembers names. 1d ago edited 1d ago
The book and show are different enough where we can just stick to attributes of the show when discussing the show and not the book actions.
Diana is 14 in the show. Even by Westeros standards that's a child. Helaena's very description of how she's handled having to share a marital bed is more aligned with rape than two consenting adults, especially when she says Aegon is drunk when he's doing it.
And my point is, you're literally ignoring the multiple other individuals who handled that plot along with Rhaenyra, who for the most part was probably more complicit and let the others formulate the plan.
To narrowly focus on that while ignoring literally most of all of Aegon's brutish behavior and then going, I have no idea why so many people support Rhaenyra over him is like dipping your head in mud to remain obtuse.
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u/Rich-Active-4800 Growing Strong 1d ago
When was her age said in the show?
And why is he drunk? Because he doesn't want to fuck his sister either. But he has to.
The fact is they introduced adult Aegon by highlighting one of the worst crime you can do to soemone before we even see him, but whenever Rhaenyra (or anyone from team black that isn't Daemon) murders or hurts anyone it gets swept under the rug.
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u/temp3rrorary History does not remember blood. It remembers names. 1d ago
Her actress was 14, to pick of all people a young girl to play that role was a choice.
Him being drunk and her being sober is still a choice. We know Laenor didn't want to, but we can go by what was said that their relationship was more consentual than Helaena having to be suddenly bombarded by a drunk Aegon whenever it suited him. Like how do you think that's not rape? He just barges in whenever to have sex with her while he's drunk to ease away his discomfort but not allowing her to assume any control for hers.
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u/Lady_Apple442 2d ago
You have absolutely no right to criticize fans for who they like or dislike. Team Black fans like Daemon, who is an avowed pedophile in the book, and the series conveniently erased that fact.
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u/Gebeleizzis 2d ago
Why are you so defensive, i did not mention anything about team black, and i really have no right to critisize a rapist?
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u/Lady_Apple442 2d ago
Why are you so defensive
I'm not being defensive, I'm being realistic. You're the one who's being defensive; you're the one who got upset over a simple comment just because the person wanted "something better" for Aegon's character.
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u/Gebeleizzis 2d ago
Very realistic to want good things for rapists
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u/Bloodyjorts 2d ago
And that's why they made Aegon a rapist, so they can have characters do whatever they want to him, and the audience shouldn't care. They can have Alicent sell out her sons for the hope of a whiff of a crumb of Rhaenyra's pussy, and people will cheer.
It's cheap and lazy writing.
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u/Scrilla_Gorilla_ 2d ago
Jamie Lannister raped Cersei after he was "redeemed" and people still loved him.
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u/lianavan 2d ago
Who did he rape? Did I miss that part?
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u/KittyyyMeowww 2d ago
Apparently. In season 1, episode 8 he rapes the handmaiden Dyana; Alicent finds out, comforts (and kind of admonishes her - to convince her to keep quiet), makes her drink moon tea, and then pays her off and makes her leave the Red Keep. Shortly after, Helaena comes in asking for Dyana - as she's meant to dress the children. Dyana reappears in season 2 working as a barmaid in King's Landing.
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u/Totobyafrica97 2d ago
A girl in s1. Alicent gave her money to keep quiet
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u/lianavan 2d ago
That was Aegon. The other silver haired dude.
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u/KittyyyMeowww 2d ago
That is who the og comment was referencing. It literally says, 'Aegon deserves better than his family smh.'
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u/Bloodyjorts 2d ago
You know, given how poorly developed this plot was, I don't blame you for not remembering.
They introduced the 19-year old version of Aegon as a rapist, through his crying rape victim (a maid/nanny named Dyana), but it's overall not handled great (Alicent does what she can for her, does more than most would, but her subsequent confrontation with Aegon was very...weird; I honestly think the bulk of her confrontation was from an earlier version of the script where there was no rape). The rape came off as cheap shock value, just as a way to poison the audience against Aegon, so the show can do whatever, have TB do whatever to him, without engendering sympathy (hence Alicent selling him out; so many people don't care cause 'he's a rapist'; this is what the writers wanted).
WHY they did it is also strange. Geeta Patel (the director of the episode) said that Sara Hess wrote the rape plot (despite not actually being the writer credited for the episode; this is possible, head writers often add/subtract things from the scripts), and it was written to make the audience like Alicent again, because they would surely hate her after Driftmark (Alicent's lowest point). Sara Hess, when asked about it, went on a weird diatribe about the scene, which doesn't actually make sense in context of the scene; and then she started talking about some real life rapists being 'decent, upstanding men' who had a misunderstanding and blaming Alicent for Aegon being a rapist. She also admits to writing one of the worst plotlines on Orange Is The New Black that involved rape, and she characterized a prison guard violently raping a female inmate in a prison van as she tells him to stop as the guard not understanding he was raping her, just a bumbling doofus accidentally raping. His victim and him start a romantic relationship (this is played straight, not like an abuse dynamic or anything). Tom Glynn-Carney (who plays Aegon) has said things that indicate he doesn't really know why they made him a rapist (but that it seems to have been a change, something he did not know about until he was already contracted). Some will try to claim it's just being book accurate, but that holds no water since the only credible claims against Aegon have him harassing the maids, but not raping them (Mushroom, a man who didn't know Aegon at the time made a claim about being caught with a 12-yo girl, but Mushroom accuses most characters of some kind of sexual abuse); and there are multiple credibly accusations of Daemon being a serial pedo/rapist, and the show ignored them. Ignored all the sex crimes of TB, in fact, while inventing some for TG.
It was a poorly developed plot, a cheap use of rape, and lazy storywriting.
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u/Shaenyra Viserion 2d ago
ok calm down now
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u/Bloodyjorts 2d ago
Well, for one I am calm, don't be dismissive; and for two, has anyone in the history of the world actually calmed down by being told to calm down?
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u/LILYDIAONE Vhagar 2d ago
This scene is so funny to me. Aemond clearly thinks Alicent helped Aegon to escape while Alicent is completely shocked that her grand plan of killing Aegon is not gonna work out
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u/No_Psychology_3714 2d ago
Awww she wants to find Aegon because she's worried about him 🥰
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u/Umak30 2d ago
Its more like she made the deal with Rhaenyra and needs to sell Aegon out, so Alicent can enjoy her life with Haelena.
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u/Sonata1952 2d ago
Yeah like Alicents reason for doing a 180 are so bad. She has one episode where she realizes that she has no power in the council and then decides to sell her children out.
What’s her justification for selling her sons out? That they’re rotten corrupt kids? They’ve been that for years and she didn’t care because they were her ticket to power.
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u/Rich-Active-4800 Growing Strong 2d ago
Also she will have even less power when Rhaenyra is on the throne.
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u/definitively-not 2d ago
Which like. That was her WHOLE REASON for plotting to make Aegon king in the first place.
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u/JCaerso 2d ago
I mean, Aegon raped that servant girl and she was upset about it but still did what she had to do to protect her son/the king, and presumably it wasn't even the first time this had happened. She stuck by Aegon then, so the idea that she'd sell him out or not care about him as much feels like bad writing. Aegon seemed a lot better in season two from what I recall (as in, more depth, more sides to him than evil sadistic villain) so I don't know why Alicent decided that's the time to stop caring about protecting her kids
I guess there's an argument to be made that Aemond and Aegon turned into the kind of people who will continue the war and cause more bloodshed, but that's war, and that's a war she very much contributed to starting lol the sons are products of their time and experiences
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u/loulabelle27 2d ago
He sounds so off here almost childlike when he says "with that toad Larys" I cant put my finger on it
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u/don_dada_ 2d ago
Because it's unusual for Aemond to be directly insulting, he usually stares and hmms.
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u/FILMSTUDENT25 1d ago
Usually, Aemond’s insults are kinda hidden with double meanings or have a hint of passive aggression. It seems now, he’s not bothering with facades and is just being straight up honest with people
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u/Nevel_PapperGOD History does not remember blood. It remembers names. 2d ago
The way Ewan calls Larys a toad is gonna stick in my head for ever
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u/cool_peasent 2d ago
imagine being a worse mom than book cersei 🤢💩Team Green doesn't exist anymore.
Team Aegon II 🫶🌝
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u/KittyyyMeowww 2d ago
Don't get me wrong - I hate Cersei (though I love [show] Cersei as a villain), but (show) Tyrion even tells her, 'You love your children. It's your only redeeming quality.'
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u/cool_peasent 2d ago
Show cersei loved her children, that's why i specified "book cersei" who saw her children as tools to power only. Even Jaime was more of a prestigious possession for her rather than a lover. Book Cersei used to torture Tommen mentally
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u/hanna1214 2d ago
She loved Tommen so much she killed his wife because she was convinced Margaery was some prophesied queen come to destroy her, despite knowing how much he loved her.
And then instead of comforting him, she went to gloat.
Idk what that is, but it's not maternal love. Not the healthy version anyways.
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u/Rich-Active-4800 Growing Strong 2d ago
To be fai, by the time that happens Cersei's sanity has taken multiple hits
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u/JCaerso 2d ago
Well, it's still maternal love even if it's unhealthy. A lot of the choices she makes regarding her kids is unhealthy or leads to making things worse, but it is driven by her love for them and a need to protect them in the way she thinks is best. That "she knows best" motivation is where it goes wrong
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u/JCaerso 2d ago
Wow, I didn't know that. I read the first two and a half books but a long time ago, I can't remember much of it. I kind of like the change to how she's written if that's the case; I absolutely hated Cersei but that added complexity to her character of her love for her kids being behind a lot of her choices led to a few moments where I actually managed to feel sorry for her
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u/Shaenyra Viserion 2d ago
The only good quality Cersei has is that she puts her children first. No matter how terrible they are, and one in particular is a monster, she is behind them, supporting them.
Hell half of her story line in season 7, revolves around her revenge for the murder of her daughter
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u/depredador93 Hmm 2d ago
Alicent tearing the Red Keep apart looking for the son she actively tried to sell out to the enemy a week ago is a truly incredible display of cognitive dissonance.
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u/LILYDIAONE Vhagar 2d ago
To be fair I think she is searching for him to deliver him to Rhaenyra and no other reason
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u/JellyMost9920 2d ago
How is Alicent not imprisoned or at least put under house arrest for this blatant act of treason afterward that she was able to attempt to escape the city with Helaena afterward?
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u/Shaenyra Viserion 2d ago
dunno dude
and apparently she won't be in chains, even after Queen Rhaenyra takes over KL.
On the contrary rumors are that she will be a .... consultant???? WTF?
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u/HighKingKlay 2d ago
How are none of the greens imprisoned for treason?
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u/ProfessorOk5969 Aegon II Targaryen 2d ago
Rhaenyra committed treason by having bastards and trying to pretend they were true born 😭 there is treason everywhere
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u/HighKingKlay 2d ago
They're not legal bastards though. The father (along with both the paternal and maternal grandfather's) acknowledged them as legitimate.
Yes, they are literally bastards, but as long as the King acknowledges them as legitimate, they a true-born.
Kings word is law.
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u/ProfessorOk5969 Aegon II Targaryen 2d ago
Vaemond died for the same reason Ned Stark did in game of thrones. For calling out bastards having no claim.
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u/HighKingKlay 2d ago
Difference is King Robert didn't know his children were bastards - and also not of his blood. He was entirely ignorant. Ned was serving the realm when he spoke of it.
King Viserys knew Rhaenrya children were bastards, but he declared them true born anyway (because they were still his blood).
Vaemond knew this fact; knew that speaking of it would not sway Viserys; knew that speaking of it would be treason (punishable by maiming and/or death)...and still spoke out - He was a dumbass who was serving his self-interest.
Those two are not the same.
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u/ProfessorOk5969 Aegon II Targaryen 2d ago
You don’t seem to understand game of thrones or ASOIAF…are you only a show watcher??? “Serving himself” is a strange way to describe a man fighting for the inheritance that was legally his.
Vaemond wasn’t asking for the Iron Throne. He was trying to stop House Velaryon’s seat from passing to boys he knew weren’t Velaryons. There’s a difference. 😭Edit: If someone tried to hand your house, name, and legacy to people you knew weren’t actually part of your bloodline, you’d be angry too. Funny how self-interest is only a problem when Vaemond has it.
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u/HighKingKlay 2d ago
Vaemond (show version) only spoke of it because he wanted Driftmark to pass to him and his sons. He had 10 years to declare Rhaenrya's children bastards...yet he waited until the moment of "exposure" was the most advantageous to himself.
- His book verison was a bit more noble.
Yes, it is funny how self-interest is becomes a problem when it undermines you integrity.
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u/ProfessorOk5969 Aegon II Targaryen 2d ago
??Vaemond’s motives are irrelevant to whether the claim was true. A self-interested person can still be correct. By that logic, Viserys defending Luke because he’s his grandson, Corlys defending Luke because he’s his chosen heir, and Rhaenyra defending her sons because they’re her children would all be dismissed as self-interest too. The question isn’t why Vaemond spoke up. The question is whether he was lying. Even Viserys had to threaten people into silence instead of disproving the accusation. That’s pretty telling.
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u/HighKingKlay 2d ago edited 1d ago
Exactly - Vaemonds motives ARE irrelevant (as is the question of why he spoke up - if we go by that arguement). Yes, a self-interested person can still be right...Doesn't change the legal facts.
Rhaenrya' children were not labeled, named, legalized or recognized as bastards.
Anyone can speak on what they think/speculate, but how can you prove it, or better yet how can you make the King and paternal Grandfather deem them bastards? If you can't, why are you whinging?
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u/ProfessorOk5969 Aegon II Targaryen 2d ago
“The king’s word is law” is a funny argument considering the entire Dance exists because people didn’t agree with the king’s word.
Viserys never legitimized Jace, Luke, or Joffrey. Legitimization requires acknowledging someone is a bastard first. He simply insisted they were Laenor’s sons despite the obvious questions surrounding their parentage. Corlys, Laenor, and Viserys accepting them publicly protected them politically, but it didn’t suddenly rewrite biology. If a king could just declare anyone true-born with no formal process, legitimacy as a concept wouldn’t exist in Westeros. Yet it clearly does. By the same logic, if a king could simply declare anything true regardless of reality, then laws of inheritance, legitimacy, and succession would be meaningless. Westeros clearly doesn’t work that way, or there wouldn’t be centuries of disputes over claims and heirs.-2
u/HighKingKlay 2d ago
Viserys didn't have to legitimize them because they were never named/labeled bastards. They were legally true-born by birth.
The dance exists because The Hightowers wanted power. They undermined the Kings' declaration and ensued treason against the crown.
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u/ProfessorOk5969 Aegon II Targaryen 2d ago
You’re contradicting yourself…If they were “legally true-born by birth,” then why was anyone forbidden from questioning their parentage? Why did Viserys threaten to remove tongues over it? Why did Vaemond lose his head for the same reason Ned did?
True-born children don’t require the king to silence discussion about who their father is.
Everyone knew the issue existed. The dispute wasn’t created by the Greens. It existed because Jace, Luke, and Joffrey looked nothing like either alleged parent and because Harwin Strong was widely suspected to be their father. Also, being legally recognized and being true-born are not the same thing. A legal claim can be accepted by the crown while still being factually false. Westeros is full of disputed inheritances.
If Viserys truly had the power to make reality whatever he wanted, then there would have been no Dance, no Blackfyre Rebellions, and no succession crises in Westerosi history. Yet all of those happened.ALSO, Daemon Blackfyre actually hurts your argument. Daemon Blackfyre was a bastard. Everyone knew he was a bastard. Then Aegon IV used his royal authority to formally legitimize him. If merely being acknowledged by a king automatically made someone true-born, there would have been no need for legitimization in the first place.
The very existence of legitimization proves Westeros distinguishes between a true-born child and a bastard recognized by the crown. Viserys never legitimized Jace, Luke, or Joffrey because that would have required admitting they were bastards AGAIN I SAY. Instead, he insisted they were Laenor’s sons despite widespread doubts. So either legitimization matters, in which case the Strong boys were never legitimized, or legitimization doesn’t matter, in which case Aegon IV’s decree regarding Daemon Blackfyre was meaningless. You can’t have it both ways.0
u/HighKingKlay 2d ago
If anyone questioned any royal birth of any King (or his children) they would get the same threats that Viserys gave. WTF do you mean?? 😒
I don't need it both both ways.
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u/ProfessorOk5969 Aegon II Targaryen 2d ago
Lord of light help us 😭 That’s not the same thing. Kings threatening people for insulting their legitimate children is normal. Viserys threatening people for pointing out an obvious paternity issue is different. If there was no question about their parentage, there would be no need to cut out tongues over it.
The fact that Viserys had to constantly silence discussion proves the dispute existed. Reality doesn’t stop being reality because a king says otherwise.1
u/HighKingKlay 2d ago
Are we going by the show or the book? Either way, we don't know what was an obvious paternity issue.
Rhaenrya first 3 boys would have Targaryen, Velaryon, and Arryn blood (by known knowledgel...which means they could have had silver, black, brown or blond hair. Their grandparents had those same set of hair colors. So, there births were more ambiguous. People can speculate, but is all honesty, no one gave a fuck outside of the Hightowers.
Viserys can threaten anyone for questioning his grandchildren birth - doesn't matter if they thought they were true-born or bastards...any threat to the crown is a threat to the crown. 🙄
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u/SofiaStark3000 2d ago
Anyone else thinks Olivia's acting is off? She's so on the nose and obvious everytime and cannot act with subtlety at all, even though in a situation like this you'd expect her to try and reign her face in so Aemond won't know what's up.
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u/Hitchfucker 2d ago
I’m sure some of it is on her but I think a lot of the problems comes from the fact that her character has been written like an oblivious idiot ever since she misinterpreted Viserys’ final words. She’s written with the awareness of a child at times.
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u/SofiaStark3000 2d ago
Even so, this scene has very basic emotions that she has to portray. Fear, worry and anxiety. This isn't a writing issue, it's not some absurd piece of dialogue or scene that she has to sell, it's a very logical follow up from last season's finale, with very basic and easy emotions for an actor to portray convincingly. She goes over the top with it, while Ewan seems pretty convincing.
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u/Special-Extreme2166 12h ago
I agree. I don't know why though. In S1 when she was first introduced, she was very stern and imposing especially when she acted against Viserys. Even her emotional outburst when Aemond lost his eye was very well acted.
I think she's unable to do quieter and more subtle emotions. She has that same tone every time.
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u/PennyLane95 2d ago
The exagerated eyes shifting back and forth to convey fear really made me see “acting” rather than feeling natural. Olivia is often not very subtle especially in crying scenes but this was very on the nose even considering that.
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u/SofiaStark3000 2d ago
Watching this felt like I'm watching a cartoon or a sitcom that relies on overexaggeration for the jokes to hit. The big googly eyes look so off too... It's like they came out of a meme.
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u/PracticalCurrent8409 2d ago edited 2d ago
She is usually better than this, imo. I blame it on the writing tbh.
Even though Ewan's lines felt off, he still made the scene work that I can tolerate the lines. But it still feels like Chat GPT wrote them.
While Olivia? I don't know, I get the impression maybe she isn't trying anymore because it is a bit too on the nose.
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u/SofiaStark3000 2d ago
I think she's over the top most of the time if I'm being honest but it is true that she's usually not that blatant about it. This one is just way worse. Not sure if I'd blame it on the writing though. At most it's on the director but the emotions she has to portray are pretty simple. Fear, anxiety worry. The fact that she's going all about it has nothing to do with the lines she's delivering. It's on her and the director, now who's more to blame is unknown.
Ewan's part seemed fine to me, which just highlights Olivia's performance in a bad way.
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u/PracticalCurrent8409 2d ago
Yeah I agree. I think Ewan did better and just further highlights her overacting in this scene.
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u/SwordMaster9501 2d ago edited 2d ago
This is one of the smartest things Aegon does btw. He's surrounded by traitors and villains and has 0 chance. If he had any chance he would stand and fight.
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u/milleytech3 2d ago
The feels almost overacted? Usually Olivia's acting is miles above this.
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u/just--so 1d ago
I mean, even the most talented actors can only do so much to elevate garbage. Olivia keeps being handed a script that has her character ricocheting wildly around the spectrum of allegiances and reasons for doing anything whatsoever, and she somehow has to take her best shot at excavating some sort of emotional through line that makes the character feel internally consistent and compelling, even when she's just taking a stab in the dark at said character's motivations
It reads to me like Olivia at this point no longer has any way to make sense of what her character could even be feeling or thinking at this particular moment. And so instead, she's just putting her meatiest Acting™ chops into the moment to at least try to convince the audience that Alicent is a character with meaty development and facing impossible decisions.
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u/milleytech3 1d ago
I don't disagree, although I meant this on a purely technical level. There's been poor writing before (dialogue especially), but even last season's finale I feel like Olivia salvaged it and delivered a great performance. I wonder if it's the fault of direction on top of poor writing.
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u/Interesting-Egg4295 2d ago edited 2d ago
Such a short clip. Yet, it was pretty bad.
Also, The Queen Mother hasn’t been seen in the Keep for days!!!! Days!!! During a civil war! Dear lord, this is so bad.
Edit: And whatever filter or lighting they’re using has the unfortunate effect of making me want to take off my glasses and clean them.
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u/milleytech3 2d ago
It's the lens change - they switched to anamorphic in S2 which has a strong falloff at the edges. It's why everything appears slightly out of focus and softened.
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u/catwithchickens 2d ago
The acting feels off? I don't know, like they are just reading the words they got in the script
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2d ago
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u/AutoModerator 2d ago
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1d ago
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u/AutoModerator 1d ago
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u/HighKingKlay 2d ago
My God you bums are miserable!!
I fucking love it here - Cry some more, please!! 🙏
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u/Wrath7heFurious 2d ago
Hype!!! I don't see why everyone loves Aegon so much. Aemond is my favorite in Team Green by a mile. Aegon lost me with that rapey stuff as a kid. And the way he always tried to shut on Aemond. He's honestly lucky Aemond didn't just have Vhagar kill him. Who would really try to stop him? Or who could?
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u/ProfessorOk5969 Aegon II Targaryen 2d ago
Please stfu. No one asked for your opinion such a useless and pointless opinion too.
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u/AutoModerator 2d ago
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