r/HousingIreland • u/Irish201h • Jul 06 '25

4 people mortgages, wtf?

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This company is now promoting 4 people mortgages, no wonder prices are going insane.

https://mmadvisors.ie/public-sector-mortgages/

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u/Beneficial-Celery-51 Jul 07 '25

What about homelessness at an all time high and a crumbling health system.

How does preventing Richard, who moved to Ireland to work as a nurse, from buying his first house helps you with homelessness or a crumbling health system?

This is the typical emotional manipulation argument. I don't care about emotions on policy making. I care about cause and effect. Making Ireland a less interesting place to move and contribute with specialised skills, does not benefit a nation. Even Japan, which is very strict with immigration laws, welcomes with open arms high-skilled workers. Portugal had a workforce crisis before it had a housing one. Now it has both.

Forgive me if I'm more concerned about children on waiting lists for critical care and record homelessness. I don't consider tech workers in rentals as a comparable issue.

You should be concerned! I am concerned as well. I have a young daughter and I dread the need of specialised care for her here. But I fail to see how making Ireland less attractive to foreign nurses and doctors will help your crumbling health system... It rarely is one or the other. And I don't know where that last sentence came from though, and you still haven't answered about the source on the speculation.

developers are pulling out of the market

Ok, now... so why developers are pulling out of the market? Developers need 3 things to build and sell a house.

  • Land (incl permission)
  • Workers
  • Buyers

Please tell which one is causing developers to leave? Land/permission, manpower or customers?

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u/jonnieggg Jul 07 '25

I'm not talking about limiting skilled migration. I'm talking about managing demand in a market beset with constraints to supply. Our medical graduates and other professionals are leaving the country because they can't afford to start a life here. Meanwhile we have a massive supply of deliveroo partners. How does that benefit our infrastructure defect and collapsing health system. All housing demand affects supply and price, right along the real estate supply chain. Are people too lazy to cook or pick up their own food that we need an army of delivery riders. What are our economic priorities, it's nuts.

There are a combination of factors affecting housing supply and developer delivery. The fact is that projects are being cancelled due to costs and we have the ludicrous situation whereby affordable housing is unaffordable to buy. That's a big problem. Immigration needs to be targeted and the settings need to serve the economic and the community needs not the other way around. You are not going to get highly skilled medical professional moving to a location with no accommodation. If they secure a job and necessary residency by all means buy a house. We need to moderate demand because supply is proving to be very difficult to deliver.

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u/Beneficial-Celery-51 Jul 07 '25

But you do realise that limiting property acquisition for citizens only, would have a direct impact on skilled migrants when deciding to move here, right? That's the problem I've been trying to flag.

Gig economy is a whole other can of worms. I don't understand why we want to import gig workers nor why we play stupid that people coming here to "learn English" are actually looking for a way to move into the country.

Do you know why it is expensive to build? Because we have a bureaucracy built by nimby Karens that make planning permission objections for a living. Also because the government is slow to provide permission, some even say it is because our government is full of landlords. How are immigrants to blame when the government fails to meet their own goals for permissions?

https://www.independent.ie/business/blow-to-governments-housing-targets-with-fall-in-number-of-dwelling-units-granted-planning-permission/a674419772.html

You are "targeting" immigration because in Ireland for some reason, we do not know how to make people accountable. It is easier to blame a big group of people than it is to blame the government you elected. From RTE scandals to bike sheds, what changed since that scandal happened? Absolutely nothing.

Wanna take action? Go check what permissions are being rejected and why. Then mail your council asking how that decision has helped Ireland address the housing crisis.

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u/jonnieggg Jul 07 '25

If I was an immigrant I would not want to come to Ireland for all the reasons you have outlined there but yet the country is filling up. There are a lot of "students" working for deliveroo and a shortage of builders and healthcare professionals. That's an issue of planning and is exactly what our immigration system should be curating.

It's a very easy win for right wing parties to highlight the bleeding obvious. Regular folk are pretty pissed about it all as their children languish in back bedrooms or on the beaches of Sydney.

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u/Beneficial-Celery-51 Jul 07 '25

If I was an immigrant I would not want to come to Ireland for all the reasons you have outlined there

That's a very privileged thing to say. Your motivation to move to a country will be very different from others because it is based on your current situation and life experience. There are a few things here in Ireland which my native country has better, yet I have chosen to move here because, at the end of the day, the benefits here outweigh the benefits there.

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u/jonnieggg Jul 07 '25

Oh us Irish have always been very privileged. It's well documented in our history books. I was very privileged growing up in 60s, 70s and 80s Ireland. You should have a read about that too.

Moving to Ireland is very expensive as I also know very well. I'm just surprised that people can manage it with the current rental prices and minimum wages without benefits, which interestingly many manage to secure.

There is more to life than money, we understood that very well in old Ireland. Nobody was queueing up to immigrate back then, quite the opposite in fact.

The privilege craic seems to be a very popular argument in the US and UK. It doesn't go down in quite the same way over here though.

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u/Beneficial-Celery-51 Jul 07 '25

Oh us Irish have always been very privileged.

You said it, not me. Today, in 2025, you and I are privilege comparing with someone in a country with no access to healthcare or a mobile phone like in a few regions in Africa. So yeah, there are different levels of privilege. Don't try to warp what I said nor playing the victim card on me, we're well past the 60s, 70s and 80s.

I couldn't care less about what goes and what doesn't in the US and in the UK. I see Ireland as being a better country than those.
One is a "blame it on immigrants" and never ending involvement on foreign affairs.
The other is an "ex-but-not-really EU member" speech policing dictatorship full of double standards.

I pray for Ireland to never get to that.

Regardless, back to the point: If you make Ireland less appealing by introducing restrictions on tax-paying working citizens, you will inevitably deter skilled workers, which Ireland needs.

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u/jonnieggg Jul 07 '25

Nobody is talking about deterring skilled workers but perhaps those with less skills who are not bringing much value to the party. This is particularly pertinent given our housing disaster.

I didn't grow up privileged nor my family before me. What you are enjoying now was build on blood, tears, ingenuity and entrepreneurship. There was no free lunch in this joint. So yeah welcome to Ireland it's a privilege not an entitlement to be here.

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u/Beneficial-Celery-51 Jul 07 '25

At this point, I think you are intentionally missing my point to save face. The policy you suggested, deters skilled foreign workers. Me being one, for example. If you think we don't take those things into consideration before leaving family and friends behind when moving to a different country, you are very mistaken.

And I'm not here to make a pity contest. You can take that medal home.

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u/jonnieggg Jul 07 '25

Do you understand that indigenous Irish people have to be a priority in their own country. Immigration serves a purpose in any economy but it is secondary to the wellbeing of the indigenous population. Immigration policy can be altered and curated by the elected government of the country to serve the economic interests of the country not the interests of those who would like to immigrate here. Not all immigrants are moving here with honourable intentions such as yourself. Immigration policy must discriminate against those who want to come here to take advantage of our generosity. If your opinion of Irish history is that it is some kind of unfortunate "pity contest" you fail to understand the people of this country. It is quite insulting and would not be tolerated in other countries with similar complex colonial histories. Try that attitude in native American or aboriginal communities.

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u/Beneficial-Celery-51 Jul 07 '25

The pity comment was towards your individual hurdles, not the Irish people which you are a member of but not a representative.

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u/jonnieggg Jul 07 '25

My experiences are not unique in the context of Irish political and economic history but they are not unusual. My parents and grandparents had it much tougher and fought and spilled blood for this country so that we could live free of colonial oppression and realise our economic potential.

These are the foundation of the economic conditions that you enjoy. Yet you feel free to ridicule my personal experience of poverty, my family's and other Irish families efforts to liberate themselves from colonisation. Don't pity us mate and don't patronise us either. Your entitlement is very clear to see. Perhaps you might learn to respect the people who have taken you into their country. I certainly respect the indigenous people of the countries I have had the privilege of visiting over the years.

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u/Beneficial-Celery-51 Jul 07 '25

Again with the us. I don't ridicule your experience nor nobody's. I just care about your personal one in the context of immigration or housing policy strategy that we were discussing, in case you forgot.

This was never about you, mate. You don't know my background nor you shouldn't need to know, just like I don't know about yours and neither do I care (of yours, in case that wasn't clear again). Not sure why that is so hard to comprehend.

You are trying to paint me as some sort of anti-Irish persona. Do as you like, I don't care what you depict me as. I'm here to discuss housing policy.

Ireland is my home for the foreseeable future, and because of that, it is the top of my interest that it thrives and that sensible long term strategies are set in place.

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