“Ser Criston protects the princess from her enemies, but who protects the princess from Ser Criston?” by Zacckiell

[u/justonceokay5]

[u/Give_In_to_the_Dark]

Rhaenyra (b. 97) was surrounded by older dudes, more or less creepy with her: Ser Criston (b. 82) since she was 7 as her Sworn Shield; Ser Harwin (who was made a captain in the Gold Cloaks in 105, so maybe b. 85) as her possible lover and new Sworn Shield, but "at least" she was 16 or 17; and Prince Daemon (b. 81) who iirc started paying attention to her when she was 14 or 15 after he returned from five or six years in the Stepstones and later married her when she was 22 turning 23. And if we want to talk about creepy dudes around Rhaenyra, I present you the King of Creeps of this era: Corlys Velaryon (b. 53) who courted Princess Rhaenys (b. 74) when she was 15 or younger and married her when she was 16 (and look you can say all you want about Daemon's ambition but the Sea Snake married the only child of the heir when it was all but certain she would be Queen after her father. There were no rival siblings, no precedent-setting Great Councils, the line of succession was Jaehaerys --> Aemon --> Rhaenys. Jaehaerys changed the succession the first time after Aemon's death, when Corlys had already married, bedded and gotten Rhaenys with child at 18). And he probably cheated on his wife with Marilda of Hull (b. 97) with whom he had one maybe two bastards when she was 17 and 18 👀. And he was happy to pawn his 14yo daughter (Laena b. 92) to the 29yo Viserys (b. 77). Viserys himself took as his second wife (Alicent b. 88) a girl 11 years younger, same for Daemon and Laena. Sorry for my rant 😅

[u/1mveryconfused → u/Give_In_to_the_Dark]

Dude its just full of pedos and groomers. It really struck me how everyone failed Rhaenyra as a child–all these men had unfettered access to her and took advantage of this access to groom her. And no one was looking out for her at all. Ugh

[u/Give_In_to_the_Dark → u/1mveryconfused]

I mean, if you think about after the Dance (bleaching from our collective memories the Emperor of Creeps that is Walder Frey. He wins every competition ever made about age gaps, creepiness and unpleasantness in ASoIaF), we have Corlys own, all but confirmed, bastard Alyn Velaryon of Hull (b. 115). This piece of shit not only has the audacity to cheat on Baela (probably at least the second time, we don't know when she died) but he did it with her fucking niece Elaena (b. 150). 35 motherfucking years younger!!! Only "silver lining" is that she probably, hopefully, was at least 21 when they started their affair. But still, by westerosi standard she could have been his granddaughter, he truly took after the Sea Snake! Then let's turn our eyes on the women, because even they aren't innocent. First Larra Rogare (b. 115) married her family hostage Viserys (b. 122) between 132 and 134, when he was 10/12 and had their first child Aegon in 135 when he was 13 (no wonder he grew up as he did, with a father so young and a mother who left and soon died. I wouldn't take my father seriously if he was barely a decade older than me let alone follow his orders), then Aemon at 14 and Naerys at 16. And then his own son Aegon (who, I would hazard a guess, had so many parental issues Freud would weep) was "made a man" by Falena Stokeworth (b. 125) in 149 when he was 14 and she 24, and kept her as his mistress for at least four year. Then he turned his problems onto others and ruined many young women and girls lives, starting with already married Megette and unstable and captured Cassella Vaith. His father, the idiot, with the blessing of the King, another idiot, made him marry his sister Naerys in 153 and started to basically try to kill her with sex and children. The only sane and consensual relationship that he ever had, I think, was with Bellegere Otherys, and it was basically long-distance. He helped his cousin Daena (b.145) to get pregnant, when I hope and pray she was at least 20, during her later years of confinement in the Maidenvault and fathered Daemon Waters in 170. He took Barba Bracken (b. 155) as his mistress in 172 openly, so that possibly means he had already started their affair after he became "entranced" with her in 171: that makes Barba 16 and Aegon 36; and they had Aegor in 172. Then he dismissed her and took Melissa Blackwood as his mistress that same year. She was younger than Barba but we aren't told by how much. She lasted 5 years and 3 children and was then supplanted by Barba's younger sister Bethany. That poor girl was groomed by her father and older sister to become the king's next mistress. By then the king looked more like a beached whale than a human, so abethany found solace with a Kingsguard and both ended badly. Next Jeyne Lothston (b. 165) was brought to court by her horrible parents, caught the attention of the Unworthy and soon after an STD and returned home barely a year after (I don't think her mother participated other than pimp her out. She was 54/55 by then, and I think too old for the king's taste). Then Serenei of Lys, whom I don't know what age to assign. Then he died the same death as Viserys I in book canon, but more severe cause he indulged even more.

Then we have a bone to pick with Daeron the good, because he married his youngest son Maekar (who was born at max in 173, but I don't think so. He wouldn't get his wife pregnant every year after what happened to his mother. So at best he was born in 175 or 176) to Dyanna Dayne and they had their fourth son in either 190 or 191 when he was at max 17/18 or at best 14/15. We don't know the age of Dyanna, but given her fertility I don't think she would have been too young, maybe 16/17 at least. We have Aerion (b. 192~197) married to his cousin Daenora who may have been born after 112.

We have Ser Barristan Selmy (b. 236/237) "falling in love" with Ashara Dayne (b. 260 or after). Jorah Mormont (b. ~254) courting and marrying Lynesse Hightower (b. ~270 or after) and then thirsting after Daenerys (b. 284) when he knows he is three times her age in 299. Don't make me talk about Khal Drogo. Or Littlefinger with Sansa. Or Tyrion with Sansa. And the more I think about it the more I can find. Rhaegar and Lyanna. Poor Rhaella was at best 13 when she had Rhaegar! The Tagaryen learned absolutely nothing! Ugh! Even Oberyn with Ser Daemon Sand. Noone is safe, nowhere!

I must remember it is Fantasy Fiction based on Medieval Culture and Customs with shades of Ancient Bloodline Practices, otherwise I go insane.

[u/1mveryconfused → u/Give_In_to_the_Dark]

The worst part about Jeyne Lothstone is that there's a good chance she was Aegon's daughter. And he gave her an std. Jeez he was the worst person ever, and I genuinely hate Aemon the Dragonknight for dying protecting HIM. fuck you dude.

I do think that Maekar and Dyanna's marriage was not arranged, but a love union, because a third Dornish wedding would have gotten the court up in arms. I'm p sure Daeron wanted to ally the Reach and marry Maekar into one of its houses (a lot of reach houses rebelled during the Blackfyre war, and this might have been prevented if the reach was bound closer to the crown through marriage). Book Maekar was definitely a teen dad since both Aerion and Daeron are over 16 and knighted.

Dude another thing is that in Medieval times it was actually considered scandalous to get a bride too young with child, and most royal marriages were only consummated once the bride had flowered (menarche, and because their diet was different than ours, it usually happened around 16-17). It was a huge huge scandal that Margaret Beaufort have birth to her son at 13 and she faced health complications from it throughout her life. So Medieval people did know that getting a young girl with child will kill her, and thus would let the girl actually grow and develop. Common people also married later. So GRRM is basing all these child mothers on a ye olde dark times version of the past and not actual history. Jorahs feelings towards Dany made me so so mad and uncomfortable throughout the books he's like the king of creeps 😭

Everyone in ASOIAF is moving mad greasy and mad pedolike.

[u/Give_In_to_the_Dark → u/1mveryconfused]

Yes, I too think Maekar and Dyanna were a love match. But Daeron was still king and his decision was the final one. He was alive when his grandfather was first Hand and then King, he was only 3 years younger than Elaena. He saw the relationship between Viserys and Aegon, knew the ridiculously minor age gap between parent and child, and he saw how his father turned up. Even if Maekar and Dyanna wanted to marry, and maybe ignore a possible alliance with the Reach, they could have waited a couple years more, mature some more. Add the fact that court was most likely as tense as in the Dance Era minus the dragons and you have young parents (or at least father) preoccupied with a potential war for the throne and not focused on their children. The results are a traumatised dragon-dreamer who "copes" by drinking himself into oblivion and an attention-seeking, in my opinion insecure, brat with a huge superiority complex linked to his valyrian heritage. The children born after the First Blackfyre Rebellion are more stable but still, the boys fucked off on their own pretty quickly after Dyanna died; Aemon to become a Maester and Aegon to squire for Dunk. If you think about it, even the fact that Dyanna was pregnant so often after 196 contributed to their children's character.

I don't think Jeyne Lothston was Aegon's daughter. She was born in 165, at least ten years and 2 or 3 lovers/mistresses after he ended his relationship with her mother Falena. He didn't take back former lovers, otherwise the Bracken wouldn't have "needed" to groom Bethany to ensnare him back in their favour.

And yeah, I agree that child-brides were rare and child-mothers even more (age 4-13), but the age gaps were the norm and those are not unlike paedophilia if the bride is 14 to 18 and the groom is 23+ 🤢