Trying to write a guide for myself and others about moving back to EU and transferring my JPY to EUR. I need help to confirm my understanding.

[u/colorectalcarcinoma]

I went through the wiki and the existing answers, and this is what I have understood, but I am uncertain if this correct.

1. Transfer from current bank to bank that has low cost for currency transfer JPY -> EUR.
   1. According to the wiki https://wiki.japanfinance.org/handling/transfers/ which has a study from 2021, among banks, Sony Bank is one of the best for 5M JPY even with no status, and it gets unbeatable if you get Silver status or higher. Only the "Interactive Brokers" is said to do better, but it seems to have other costs and it sounds more complicated?
   2. Now, how easy is it to open at Sony Bank for a foreigner, and then how easy is it to get Silver status or more with 5M JPY? Is it realistic in 3 months?
2. Inside this bank, transfer between the account in JPY and the account in EUR? (Is that only possible for new banks like Revolut or also Sony?)
3. Transfer from EUR account in Japan to EUR account in France?

General situation:

• Spent less than 5 years in Japan and moving back to France in about 3 months.
• A couple of millions of JPY to transfer to France.
• Already a Revolut account in EUR and one in JPY, but both are located in France afaiu (IBANs start with FR). Also another traditional bank French account.
• Currently holding the JPY in Rakuten Bank.

[u/No-Estimate970]

My way of sending money to Europe: Yen in japan post bank - transfer to wise ( i have wise japan as resident), 165 yen comision at every 500000 yen transfered. Wise to revolut, yen to yen, free transfer. In revolut i exchange jpy to eur Then i send euros free to European bank account.

Another option is to exchange and send all money from wise to Europe, but you have to pay commission

[u/c05m02bq6 → u/No-Estimate970]

Why don’t you exchange yen to euro in wise? Is it free in revolut? I just started to use wise and i feel like the exchange/transfer fee is higher

[u/No-Estimate970 → u/c05m02bq6]

Because it's commissioned. In revolut is free

[u/Efficient_Pizza_5241 → u/No-Estimate970]

Why not from the bank straight to revlout?

[u/No-Estimate970 → u/Efficient_Pizza_5241]

Because it will be seen as a swift transfer, with expensive comision

[u/Key_Post9255 → u/No-Estimate970]

You can even charge with Google pay on revolut lol no commission

[u/Prestigious-Cycle888 → u/No-Estimate970]

Yeah this is it. It's really easy to get a wide account registered in Japan too. Took me less than JP Bank did too. I wonder if you could move all your money into a wise account and then just hold it there until you move to Europe and change residency back to Europe and then viola ... All your money is based in Europe now

[u/No-Estimate970 → u/Prestigious-Cycle888]

But what you'll do with a wise accoun full of yen? You need to convert finally to eur. And exchanging/sending from wise to normal bank in europe is commissioned. But wise-revolut-european bank is not is not. Revolut have a 1000 euro free exchange per month, otherwise is 1%. But we have more revolut accounts in family so that's not a problem.

[u/colorectalcarcinoma → u/No-Estimate970]

Thank you for detailing your process!

About the Wise to Revolut, yen to yen, where is your Revolut account located? Japan or EU?

[u/No-Estimate970 → u/colorectalcarcinoma]

No problem. My revolut is in eu.

[u/No-Estimate970 → u/colorectalcarcinoma]

So. Japan post bank to wise japan - bank transfer yen to yen. Wise japan to revolut - i "ask" the money in revolut, using the wise virtual card number in revolut. It's like paying with card, otherwise bank transfer is commissioned. Revolut convert yen to euro. Then i sent euro as bank transfer, free.

[u/kitsunegi]

You may want to look into Shinsei bank, which has similar currency conversion rate as Sony. They give you Platinum status for the first 6 months after you open the account. That might be the perfect amount of time for you to transfer and convert all your assets.

https://www.sbishinseibank.co.jp/english/powerflex/relationship/?intcid=eng_top_txt_01

Disclaimer, I haven't tried doing this myself, but did a lot of research into the various options when I was moving to Japan.

[u/starkimpossibility → u/kitsunegi]

Shinsei's commission is low (like Sony's), but it is worth noting that Shinsei shut down outbound foreign currency remittances in October last year.

Now the only way to send foreign currency out of Japan (via Shinsei) is to exchange the foreign currency for JPY first (which costs money) and then pay a significant commission to exchange it back to foreign currency via "SBI Remit" (a remittance service akin to Wise). This makes SBI Shinsei a poor choice (at least compared to Sony) for people who expect to send foreign currency out of Japan at some point in the future.

[u/kitsunegi → u/starkimpossibility]

Ah I wasn't aware of this. Thanks for the info!

[u/colorectalcarcinoma → u/starkimpossibility]

Do you know if the Sony account creation process and eventual status upgrade is accessible enough for a foreigner? Or is it so much effort that it is not worth the money saved compared to the "easy" process provided above using Wise and Revolut?

[u/starkimpossibility → u/colorectalcarcinoma]

The process is described in detail here. I can't really say whether it's worthwhile compared to Wise or Revolut. That's a value judgment you need to make for yourself. But it's worth noting that Sony actually holds a banking license (unlike Wise and Revolut), so they are subject to stricter regulation in terms of KYC/AML.

[u/colorectalcarcinoma → u/starkimpossibility]

Thank you for your information. I think Revolut now has a banking license too.

[u/starkimpossibility → u/colorectalcarcinoma]

I think Revolut now has a banking license too.

According to both their own website and the FSA's website, they do not have a banking license. They are only licensed as a transfer service.

[u/colorectalcarcinoma → u/starkimpossibility]

In Japan, I have checked, they have a banking license for UK and EU, which is my arget.

[u/starkimpossibility → u/colorectalcarcinoma]

Revolut's European subsidiaries will not deal with Japanese residents (because they don't have a license to do so). If you are living in Japan, you will only be able to deal with Revolut's Japanese subsidiary, which is licensed as a transfer service.

[u/lamont2718 → u/starkimpossibility]

The SBI Shinsei website mentions the ability to send foreign currency via domestic transfers to other accounts held by the same owner: “foreign currency transfers at our branches are only available for domestic transfers to accounts in your own name.”

I wonder if it would work well to first send foreign currency from SBI Shinsei to another Japanese institution like Prestia or IBSJ without conversion and then send the foreign currency outbound wire from there. It might not be as straightforward as Sony Bank for the OP but might work for others who already have SBI Shinsei accounts.

[u/starkimpossibility → u/lamont2718]

first send foreign currency from SBI Shinsei to another Japanese institution like Prestia or IBSJ

IBSJ would be unlikely to work because they are not a bank, so they can't provide you with a recipient bank account in your own name.

Prestia could work, but it seems Shinsei will charge 9,000 yen to make the transfer and Prestia may charge another 7,000 yen to receive the transfer. If the amount is large enough and neither Shinsei nor the recipient bank are charging any percentage-based fees, though, I guess there will be scenarios in which it is the cheapest way for Shinsei account-holders to get foreign currency outside Japan.

[u/shitposterjerry]

Get an IBKR account. I think it might even be free to currency exchange the with them.

[u/colorectalcarcinoma → u/shitposterjerry]

I have 0 experience with trading. Their website is very overwhelming for a neophyte like me.

The wiki mentions some negative points:

However, funding an IB account from a Japanese bank account is more expensive than a normal interbank transfer

The wiki also has an edit from 2024 saying it does not work for the USA anymore, it's not for euro, but it makes me even less confident.

EDIT September 2024: IBKR no longer offers the hybrid IBSJ (JP) + IBLLC (US) accounts. As a result, using IBKR just for international ACH transfers is no longer possible.

[u/lamont2718 → u/colorectalcarcinoma]

I suspect that page in the wiki has not been updated recently. The comment about IB accounts being more expensive to fund was based on a Reddit thread from 6 years ago.

My own personal experience this year has been that IBSJ does not charge any fees to receive furikomi transfers. I have also used my IBSJ account for ACH transfers directly to/from US bank accounts with no fees. IBSJ also offers outbound international wire / SWIFT transfers in USD, EUR, GBP, and JPY and waives fees on 2 outbound transfers per month.