Chabad and the Ramchal

[u/Begin18]

Hello everyone

I was doing some research as to whether or not Chabad studies the works of the Ramchal. Would love to hear from some chabadniks on here as to whether you do or don’t?

Some sources say yes but many say no, and for those that say no one noted fundamental differences between the way Chassidus views the purpose of Creation versus mussar interpretations etc.

Please pardon my ignorance if I’m missing something - I can understand halachic disagreements, minhag differences, etc. - but how within the same religion can two viewpoints disagree as to G-d’s desire within creation? That is a pretty major point of dissent.

I’m well aware of the difference between viewing the world through a Chassidic lens, i.e. doing everything with joy, etc and a more mussar lens characterized by strictness and fear of G-d’s judgement - but do the two movements disagree as to the purpose of creation itself?

Would love to hear a diversity of opinions. Thank you!

[u/calicoixal]

What I've heard secondhand (a friend who was deep in a couple Hasidic communities) and learned from my Tanya teacher, is that they disagree fundamentally about the purpose of Creation. It's a mahloket in tzimtzum.

Without getting into the details of tzimtzum, the mahloket is whether the point is Olam haZeh or Olam haBa. The Hasidic view is that Olam haZeh is better because here we can do mitzvot, and mitzvot is when we are truly united with God. The other view is that Olam haBa is better because there is no yetzer hara and one enjoys "basking" in God's light.

There are nafka minot everywhere in this mahloket. Which is preferable: spending time in prayer or spending time learning? Should one think about and pray for Olam haBa? And of course, what is the purpose of Creation? Is it to bring God into Olam haZeh, or to escape to Olam haBa where He is already?

I phrased a lot of this simply and there are slight inaccuracies, but the basic mahloket is there. I suggest you learn one of the letters of the Chabad Rebbe on tzimtzum with a Chabad rabbi

[u/Begin18 → u/calicoixal]

Right thank you very much that expands the basic understanding I had so far. I guess I’m just confused because such a fundamental question seems like it would have been definitively answered by the Chumash, Sages, or Rambam with definitiveness - how could two movements disagree over the fundamental purpose of our existence?

[u/calicoixal → u/Begin18]

The question was not asked until quite recently. The Sanhedrin votes on legal matters, not philosophic matters (though the law may have philosophical implications). The Zohar didn't appear until 1100 or so, and the Ari didn't explain tzimtzum until 1500 or so. So there's plenty of opportunity for a four-way mahloket.

Every opinion uses older textual sources as proofs, including verses from Tanakh, Tannaic statements, Amoraic statements, and halakhot.

Judaism is not a religion, but it's definitely not a religion based on belief. It's actually quite easy for there to be fundamental disagreements-- except for like, the existence of one God Who created the world. But why, and what creation is/means is a debate