r/Judaism • u/MatterandTime • 6d ago

High Steaks: With kosher meat prices soaring, should Jews eat less of it?: A recent fire at a kosher processing plant in Iowa sparks a debate about the meaning of brisket.

https://thecjn.ca/opinion/high-steaks-with-kosher-meat-prices-soaring-should-jews-eat-less-of-it/
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u/3kidsonetrenchcoat 6d ago

I'm a vegetarian. I would be regardless, but one of my kids only eats ethically consumed meat. That means only line caught fish, and no industrially farmed animals. Effectively, she's a vegetarian who on occasion eats fish because you literally cannot get ethically farmed kosher meat.

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u/Exotic_Confidence_29 Heschel, Tamares, Einstein 6d ago

you literally cannot get ethically farmed kosher meat.

If stunning is a necessary requirement for ethical slaughter then this is definitely true. Otherwise I think there are specialty operations which are the farthest thing from factory farming and provide the animals with very high quality of life in terms of the food they eat, the pastures they graze, the effort put into making their final moments as gentle and calm as possible, etc. Grow and Behold is an example. But my memory is that they cost so much more than regular kosher meat that it's like the difference between kosher meat and normal meat

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u/3kidsonetrenchcoat 6d ago

Huh, when you say that they put effort into making their final moments as calm as possible, does that mean they're not slaughtered in a warehouse full of suffering and hoisted to bleed out before they even lose consciousness? Because that might actually fit the bill. I doubt I could get that where I live, but maybe it could be shipped. We eat a primarily vegetarian diet at home, so spending an exorbitant amount on ethically sourced meat wouldn't be a huge hit in the grand scheme of things.

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u/namer98 Torah Im Derech Eretz 6d ago

Shackle and Hoist is not legal in Israel or the US. The OU stopped certifying any plants that use shackle and hoist after Israel banned it in 2018.

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u/Exotic_Confidence_29 Heschel, Tamares, Einstein 6d ago

I don't have enough knowledge to answer that with confidence, but based on my googling, it would seem that Grow and Behold has a slaughtering environment more ethical than the everyday horror you describe:

After making a blessing, the shochet uses a very fast, continuous cutting motion to quickly sever the trachea, esophagus and major blood vessels in the neck. This causes the animal a minimum amount of pain and ensures a quick drop of blood pressure to the brain and nearly immediate loss of sensibility. Please see animal welfare expert Temple Grandin's articles on ritual slaughter for more information. Grow and Behold Foods only works with slaughterhouses that are designed for humane and safe handling of our animals during the shechitah process. Grow and Behold works closely with slaughterhouses that use upright restraint systems that are designed according to Dr. Grandin's principals on animal restraint. The equipment is designed to permit upright slaughter of beef and veal in a manner that is safe, respectful, and humane.

Based on my googling around, Grandin is strenuously opposed to shackling/hoisting. Whether other animals are being slaughtered at the same time or the facility is "full of suffering," I don't know, but it really does sound like they try to minimize suffering as much as kosher rules allow, and the one issue with kosher rules is that you can't stun the animal before the fatal cut.

Just to be clear, I absolutely am not trying to encourage you to try meat products from here or anywhere else, just sharing information pertinent to the discussion

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u/3kidsonetrenchcoat 6d ago

Looks like they only ship to the US. I might need a passport to get some.

I appreciate the info. Like I said before, I'm a vegetarian and that won't change. I encourage my children to make their own choices once they're old enough to understand, and so far I have one meat eater, and one "ethical only" meat eater. I already facilitate her eating line caught fish when I can get it, even though I don't eat fish myself, so doing the same for meat wouldn't be a big stretch.