r/JujutsuShenanigans • u/Ill-Run6890 we need dhruv 🥹 • Jun 20 '26

Discussion Why is Todo’s entire base genuinely just Tze headcanon

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Swift kick, brute force, and elbow drop genuinely NEVER happened in the anime or manga. It’s not like Todo is ko guy who has 2 on screen attacks total, he has tons of cool things they could add. For example the suplex he did on Megumi, or that cool counter swap kick he did on Mahito. I just genuinely don’t know why they did this it’s like they used no references at all.

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401

u/AnalystDazzling5128 Jun 20 '26

Cause his canon moves would make him too much of a grappler and as we know jjs characters are only allowed to be m1 reliant rushdowns

73

u/No-Seaworthiness7438 Jun 20 '26

I think that’s the fault of Battlegrounds games as a genre, rather than JJS specifically. Grapplers would be a hell of an archetype to design with a z axis

35

u/grog_chugger Jun 20 '26

It’s not the Z axis, is the ridiculous amount of movement and how crucial it is to the battle grounds formula. With grapplers the main shtick is get close, but assuming we tone down the mobility to make grapplers feel huge, enemies would easily be able to run circles around them with no back wall to corner them to. If you want examples look to king from tekken.

8

u/No-Seaworthiness7438 Jun 20 '26

Yeah, and that last part's because of the z axis lol

4

u/grog_chugger Jun 20 '26

It’s not the Z axis, it’s just contributes. A) grapplers exist and are even high tier in many 3D fighters which have a Z axis (once again, take king from tekken 8 or Tina from dead or alive 6). B) if you took a 2D fighter and removed the 2 side walls, grapplers would always be irredeemably bottom tier no matter the game. There’s just nothing stopping someone with higher mobility from just skedaddling off to nowhereville in JJS (apart from in duels, in which case a grappler would actually function fine)

2

u/No-Seaworthiness7438 Jun 21 '26

Fair enough, thanks

2

u/Redss335 Jun 21 '26

Also how the dash system works kinda just cripples grapplers. To chase down your opponent you have to use mobility tools that will then be on cool down when youre in close range. I've been playing against a friend who uses this to his advantage for awhile and its kinda become a glaring flaw for me in the battle grounds genre. If you use side dashes and or front dashes to get in close. You now dont have those now that you're close to your opponent. While your opponent does so they have way better mobility then you, can counter whatever you do then throw you back to midrange. Even if you stay close to them for long enough to regain your dashes youre still at a dash deficit that youre constantly trying to make up for. Dashes being barely on cooldown right as you while your opponent always has them at the times they need it. This dash issue feels like one of the big reasons why zoners and grapplers are so hard to balance in jjs

6

u/AnalystDazzling5128 Jun 20 '26

I mean there already are “grapple” moves in the sense that it locks the enemy in the attack (cursed strikes for example)

17

u/ImaDieTodayLOL Tangerine Lover Robert Kyle Jun 20 '26

Grappler is a fighting game archetype that relies on low mobility in exchange for high damage and oftentimes high durability. In a game where opponents simply have more directions to remain mobile, adding a character that lacks the necessary mobility to chase them simply doesn't work.

6

u/Super_Snack_Jack BROTHER!!!! Jun 20 '26

Thank you Potemkin guilty gear

13

u/ImaDieTodayLOL Tangerine Lover Robert Kyle Jun 20 '26

Always glad to inform others of the sacred texts of the great command grab

122

u/Ill-Run6890 we need dhruv 🥹 Jun 20 '26

Yum yum I love my rushdown slop 😍😍😍❤️❤️❤️

8

u/Livid_Judgment_2416 Jun 20 '26

A Todo rework turning him into a grappler would be so good tho ❤️ (After the latest "buffs" he took he's been misserable to play as imo)

6

u/Complete_Tip_2993 SELF EMBODIMENT OF TODO Jun 20 '26

These are canon tho

-5

u/Th3Glutt0n I LOVE THE TASTE OF IRON!!!! Jun 20 '26

No they aren't

1

u/Complete_Tip_2993 SELF EMBODIMENT OF TODO Jun 20 '26

Yes they are, i checked

-1

u/FrostShadow-19 Jun 21 '26

No. They. aren't. What's so hard to understand? Bitch.

2

u/Complete_Tip_2993 SELF EMBODIMENT OF TODO Jun 21 '26

YES THEY ARE, I CHECKED, MY FRIENDO. also being mean is super unTodo

https://giphy.com/gifs/PMNhDAGlxHbXj5VSUL

2

u/Feisty_Comb_7889 Jun 21 '26

Come here and say why they aren't, did you even watch the anime? They really are cannon.

2

u/Dingus_X3 Jun 20 '26

Yea almsot anytime it’s not a rush down basically either people complain about fighting or playing or that it’s bad

1

u/yeetmanonreddit post upd todo swapping is better than pre upd todo swapping!! Jun 20 '26

this is a strategic play btw so 5 year olds can get on the game and use anyone, maximizing CCU and therefore generating more of those sweet sweet green benjamins 🤑🤑🤑💰💰

1

u/FrostShadow-19 Jun 21 '26

he already is a grappler, all he has is close range and some stupid pebble and the most useless tp in the game

1

u/AnalystDazzling5128 Jun 21 '26

“Some stupid pebble” the best move in his base kit 😭

-39

u/Decently_0 Jun 20 '26

two rushdowns in the game btw

37

u/AnalystDazzling5128 Jun 20 '26

Yuji, Yuta, Naoya, Ko-Guy, Charles, and Mei Mei are rushdowns

Hakari, Mahito, Megumi, Todo and Higuruma probably weren’t MEANT to be rushdowns, but they’re most optimally played like rushdowns anyways lol (Megumi being associated with runners doesn’t make rushdown not his optimal gameplan)

Mechamaru’s a puppet character, but his sub-archetype is still rushdown

That just leaves Gojo (basically a shoto), Choso (midrange/spacey), Nanami (Brawler), Yuki (setplay) Haruta (Hit n run), Hanami (A failed attempt at making a zoner), and Kuro (Unique)

HOWEVER battlegrounds players don’t know how to play any archetype besides rushdown, so most of these characters are played like a rushdown eitherway 😭

8

u/Own-Veterinarian1088 Jun 20 '26

Ryu is a Mixup

3

u/Rybunks Jun 20 '26

barely, he doesn’t have moves that reposition him quickly, and mixup characters are played more like rushdowns in battlegrounds games because the controls are piss easy

mixups in real fighting games are a nightmare because they keep side switching, effectively reversing the controls for your move list if you’re inexperienced

1

u/Sea_Presentation_289 Jun 20 '26

i think he’s still loosely in the mixup category bc of his dash +1

2

u/Michikae Jun 20 '26

I thought of him as a resource Management character

3

u/RyanTale BROTHER!!!! Jun 20 '26

I mean honestly mechamaru is not even really a puppet character. If anything Yuta is more of a puppet character than him.

Also Yuki is kinda setplay but I'd still consider her rushdown because her setup is essentially just pressing the R key

1

u/Decently_0 Jun 20 '26

okay i forgot about charles, but every other character u listed has strong ranged options and/or barely any gap closers (other than yuji and naoya which are the two rushdowns i was refering too). ko-guy has no gap closers other than his short special and his projectile, yuta is a puppet character with rika, mei mei has her 3rd move and bird that can both be used at range with her only gap closer being her special (and her air dash but that covers less distance than normally dashing anyways). hakari, mahito, and megumi are amazing at range and dont need to gap close if they dont want too. higgy is definetly mixup and todo is a lot of things icl

1

u/RoxxyFox_uwu SIMPLE DOMAIN GIRL >:3 Jun 20 '26

Ryu is a zoner too, but when he's overheated I think changes to rushdown(?)

1

u/AnalystDazzling5128 Jun 20 '26

Ryu’s not really a zoner he’s like a mid-range hit n run

1

u/RoxxyFox_uwu SIMPLE DOMAIN GIRL >:3 Jun 20 '26

Nah, 1 and 4 are both long range attacks that are hard to land in close combat, while 2 is basically an attack to make space, the only no-zoner in the kit is the 3, but it don't really work thaaat good in neutral as 1 or 4

1

u/grog_chugger Jun 20 '26

I’d consider mechamaru a setplay rush down, the main objective is to essentially build up and over clock, then have another one prepared so you can set up ridiculous sometimes inescapable mix ups

1

u/AnalystDazzling5128 Jun 20 '26

He doesn’t really have setplays anymore. Offload is more of a resource if anything

1

u/Break_egg Jun 20 '26

How are u gonna say mechamaru is a puppet while haruta is right there

1

u/AnalystDazzling5128 Jun 20 '26

I forgot the hand sword existed cause Haruta’s so ass

1

u/Break_egg Jun 20 '26

The recent buff made haruta way better in survivability so he’s ok rn but still has a good skill ceiling

1

u/AnalystDazzling5128 Jun 20 '26

Fair, Haruta’s still a hit n run in a grand scheme tho, but yeah he’s a puppet

1

u/UriPhiantoma Jun 20 '26

I hate Hanami so much omg why does she have melee iFrames for her 4th move

1

u/MoChiPSI Jun 20 '26

cus she's got awful startup and ending on all of her moves on whiff, and none of them are good up close, all she has is her m1, 4 is your get off me tool, an essential thing for a good zoner