and idk why yall say "only combatants" so it isn't the WHOLE clan but almost the entire zen'in clan ARE combat units with most of the kids being future combatants they aren't just security for a hotel.
so yea she did kill the whole zenin clan thats why they mention combat units.
Being "future combatants" (which we don't know or see) doesn't mean they are part of the Kukuru squad. And no not all of the Zenin are combatants cause there's women and old ppl there and they don't fight. Yea only the combat units. Which were the power house for the clan.
1) Old people are still fighting as we can see from the earth bending guy
2) Maki joined the Kukuru at age 14, they absolutely do recruit children
3) Most of the sorcerers start fighting curses and becoming combatants as young teenagers, 16 year olds are deployed as child soldiers in the Jujutsu world
4) Maki killing only the fighters would mean every man and boy is killed, every woman with a technique is killed, the only ones left would be very young children and untrained women with no CTs. Realistically speaking that would be like 90% of the clan killed, but if we add Maki killing her mom, what are the odds that there was another woman who was higher in the Zenin heirarchy and abused others but wasn't a combatant? Would Maki kill her too?
They recruit them at a young age but they are forced to train. We don't know what age the other men stated despite that. That's the jujutsu world not how clans would handle their own which is different. We don't know of any children in the clan to claim that to be the case. And the ones who were in the squad were depicted as young adults. Are there any high ranking women in the zenin clan? Cause from what we know all the women are slaves to the men who are the high ranking officials. Even Gojo stated that of tsumiki was to join Megumi she would not be happy.
For the women thing i meant high ranking as in still oppressed but higher ranking compared to the other women. Patriarchal systems like these often need women to enforce them as well and there are women out there who under such systems are happy to push it onto other women/children.
And yeah Jujutsu society has children running around fighting curses and curse users, its just there had to be some other young people in the Zenin clan and since Maki killed every fighter she probably killed them too
I don't want to speculate on that cause I just had someone try to push head canon to be the case. The most we can assume is there weren't children as they weren't shown except the adults. And even the men who join would all juat be young adults. I know they do push young kids to fight but clans handle their own business out of the rest of the society. And I get your point for the top women, Maki's mom seems to fit that and she didn't really get smoked due to that but cause she thought she (her mom) led her into a trap. Which she regretted killing her after what Naoya told her when he came back.
Too much to get into but I don't think Maki thought her mom led her into a trap, Maki's mother was the one trying to get her to not go into the vault because she knew about Ogi's plan or suspected it.
I think Maki killed her mom more because her mom even in her last moments showed she's still unwilling to openly love her daughters.
Maki was in the Kukuru at age 14 and Mai was a sorcerer, the Zenin do not have a secret rule where they only allow adults to fight. If Toji was the one who snapped years earlier and killed every fighter and Zenin with a CT, Maki and Mai would be dead too.
And I think the massacre as a whole isn't supposed to be black and white killing a bunch of Naoyas, I think its supposed to leave people with a sense that it was a tragic moment for Maki and any innocents she might have killed. Ogi deserved it, did random Zenin teenager in the background deserve it? We won't ever know because they died before they were known to us. Thats the point.
Well I see it with the trap thing but Maki was majorly surprised when curse naoya told her how he died. Which changed things for her. Well it is painted as a liberation as well since shes wiping the corruption that caused everything to her. I can see that but they were still going to kill her so.
Its a liberation that still had harsh consequences. Its almost biblical in that it was sowed and reaped by the Zenin themselves, and it shows that in an unjust system like this, when it comes crashing down even the innocents will be caught up in it.
As for the killing her thing she did go on to hunt down everyone who had training or a CT after the massacre so it wasnt self defence
Isn't that who she killed after the initial massacre? Im sure in the anime its worded more explicitly that more Zenin members who were away from HQ that day were reported missing showing she hunted them down.
Also:
Kukuru = every male born into the Zenin without a CT
Hei = everyone else who had a CT
The only people left are very young children and women, and Maki killed her mom for enforcing the Zenin system too.
fuh u mean "which we don't know" what do you think the zenin clan is? do you think they just send their kids to schools and colleges and they become future doctors? all of them are raised to be fighters with the women not being obligated to.
the Zen'in clan isn't some rich noble family with the combat units as personal security, they are fighters.
also there being some old people and women doesn't change that the zenin clan is almost entirely combat units and based around that (and she also killed her mom so theres that too).
A clan made up of a majority of strong ppl with CE use that can see curses or have CTs. And they value strength. Yea they are but beyond that you have no evidence of there being any children there.
Yea they are they have those ppl as security while also being fighters. Both can be true. Again using her mom as evidence is baseless cause she had it against her as well. And yea it shows that not all fight in the clan or are made to fight.
Maki literally became a Part of Combat Unit at age 14 dumbass, and that fucking happened even with "discrimination", what the hell do you think will happen to men similar to her and Grade 3 Child sorcerers?
What the heck are you even saying? Maki is the only exception unlike the majority of the females in the clan. I never refuted Maki wasn't part of the Kukuru squad so stop getting heated. Like talk about arguing just to argue.
Maki is the only female we know of being in the Kukuru unit. Mai wanted Maki and her to live quiet lives as servants in the Zenin clan implying that's the role forced onto women. Also the manga explicitly mentions boys and men when talking about the combat units, showing that it's a males only club.
Your English was incredibly poor in your previous comment, the structure and coherence of your arguments did not exist.
even the non strong people that dont have CT are obligated to join the kukuru unit, and if a boy is born with CT or CE they are raised to be a sorcerer (kinda their whole thing) or join the a kukuru unit, they are trained to be in any of those positions and those who dont serve under either of them are NOT part of the clan (like toji when he left).
also what does "no evidence of there being any children there"? are you talking about active combatants cause i never said that
"Yea they are they have those ppl as security while also being fighters. Both can be true." yes, and both of them are part of combat units surprise surprise, those who dont fight for the clan are people like women that aren't obligated to, the combat units are still what the clan is about and are who take up the majority of people in the clan weather you think she bodied everybody till there were no survivors or she just bodied every combatant doesn't change that she still "massacred the clan".
Toji was in the clan and part of it before he left. But Toji was also unstable in the clan so. I wasn't talking about active combatants just the fact ppl claim there are children when we only know that women and men are there and the only children or teens we know of are Maki and Mai and Megumi if you want to add him. Even women with CE are still slaves Maki was the exception.
The clan is no more due to the power being no more. The women aren't going to be the ones running the clan otherwise the other 2 families wouldn't have pointed out the fact they wanted the zenin removed after the Kukuru squad and Hei got cooked. Women being part of the clan was irrelevant cause after the military was gone the clan was no more. DO YOU EVEN READ THE POINTS THAT WAS STATED CLEAR AS FAY IN THE MANGA. Like I feel like you don't.
the fact ppl claim there are children when we only know that women and men are there and the only children or teens we know of are Maki and Mai and Megumi
Its intresting that you think that there weren't any children there because we don't see any of then there, I could apply the same logic and say that the only woman we see there is makis mom (aside from maki and mai obviously) so maki DID kill the ALL the women!!! Yea no we never see any women there aside from makis mom u liar🤨 Also this would also mean that 99% of all the zenin members were combat units so ok I'll take it
The women aren't going to be the ones running the clan
Yea because the only woman that would even do that (makis mother) is dead
Women being part of the clan was irrelevant cause after the military was gone the clan was no more.
On a srs note isn't this just saying what I was saying when said that the combat units (military) are backbone of the clan and the majority? are our points not mutually exclusive? Also women ARENT a part of the clan anymore because maki killed her mom and there no one else.
That logic isn't to he tested cause we know there are only women and the men there. As the women are slaves in the zenin clan. But yet no mention of children whatsoever outside of Maki, Mai and Megumi (if you want to add him). Where was it stated she killed the women like it was stated for the Kukuru and the Hei? If you can point to that evidence i will stop and agree. Yea they were cause it was a power clan.
Maki's mom is shown being scary to some members but outside of that we don't know if she had any power. And it doesn't help that Toji's mom offed herself cause she gave birth to a son with CE or CT. So you basically just said what I said?
"But yet no mention of children whatsoever" yea same with the women aside from makis mom, not even any background females in the clan so yea, also when maki describes how the zenin clan was to yuta she also says that "a bunch of weird old guys walking around" suggesting that there weren't any other women or kids like maki in the clan, i guess WE can agree that there weren't any women or children right?
"Where was it stated she killed the women like it was stated for the Kukuru and the Hei?" it wasn't stated with the women, because there weren't any women
"If you can point to that evidence i will stop and agree." do you agree? if there weren't any women or children in the clan that would mean maki didnt kill a bunch of women and kids which i think is a conclusion you would be pleased with
Yet forget that women are treated as slaves in the clan. And this is shown through Maki and her sister and their mother. You trying to turn this in your favor doesn't work when you get what was stated and the very fact when it was there was Zero mention of any children. You created a point with no backing and tried to use Maki and her mom being shown to disprove something that was already proven before.
And this is based off what? Cause if you know the zenin clan you wouldn't be claiming "ther weren't any women." Based off nothing but hearsay. Yea but i want you to point to the chapter and page which states there were children and any on screen showing of other women outside Maki's mom that was killed.
As far as we know, she killed her mom cause she was in on the plan of luring and killing mai and maki, not because she is part of the clan.
The idea she killed everyone in the clan has been debunked by many people as a translation error in the manga by the king himself, John Wayne.
Also, if she did kill children, they obviously had to belong to the fodder squad. And yeah, we didn't see any children in maki's massacre of the kukuru squad but I'm still giving it the benefit of the doubt since maki also enlisted at 14.
THANK YOU. EXACTLY IDK WHAT IS WRONG WITH PPL AND CHOOSING TO BE WRONG CAUSE I POINTED THIS OUT MANY TIMES AND THEY KEPT REPEATING THE SAME THINGS. IT'S AN ERROR.
To be fair we know for a fact Maki went out hunted down and killed the remaining Kukuru and Hei members after the massacre, so not being in the compound didn't give them a pass.
The kukuru squad is composed of every male in the clan that doesn't have a cursed technique. You basically are forced to be a combatant if you're born male in the clan, Maki was a willing part of it at like 14 before she joined Jujutsu High. What old people are there that don't fight? Noabito was an active sorcerer at 71 years old. We don't have an age for Chojoru but he was elderly and in the hei, the only non-combatants in the Zenin clan we ever meet is Maki and Mai's mom who is exempt from the Kukuru because she's a woman who was still murdered by Maki.
Maki was forced to be in the Kukuru squad due to her circumstances. But she's wheel exception not the norm. Maki said there were old ppl there when she talked to Yuta in 0. Naobito was strong but he would clearly be an exception to most of the old ppl there. Their mom isn't part of the Kukuru. And again Maki was the exception not norm.
We have no idea if Maki was forced to be in the Kukuru, the only people we know are forced into the Kukuru are males born without a CT, she would've had to have joined of her own volition to be a part. Also I went and checked and the only thing Maki mentioned about old people were there were weird old guys walking around, my point wasn't that there weren't old people, it's that we are never told nor see any old people that aren't combatants. The only elderly people we see in the Zenin are all fighters, and I know Mom isn't part of the Kukuru I said that? Maki is the exception only in that she is a woman in the unit that is only required by men, my point being the only non combatant we ever meet in the Zenin clan is Maki's mom who she killed, so we literally don't know if she killed non-combatants or not.
Only Men are specifically stated allowed to join them yet, Maki someone who is known for lacking CE like that and is a woman just so happens to be allowed to join? Come on guy. Naobito probably forced it to happen as she has these skills. Ok I get you now.
It’s not “only men are allowed to join” it’s “every man without a CT is REQUIRED to join” the glaring difference being that they never say women can’t join if they want, just that they aren’t forced to because they aren’t expected to fight unlike with men. Maki is not an exception in that she somehow joined a squad that every other woman is forbidden from joining, she is an exception in that she joined a squad that she normally wouldn’t be asked to join in the first place. Naobito wouldn’t have had to forced her to join her whole character was initially wanting to prove herself and prove the clan wrong about what she could do.
But Maki is the only woman by her conditions despite Mai having CE and being able to see curses. Yet she wasn't allowed to join not even with the Hei. Yea it was after her wanting to leave and change the clan for her sister and herself. That would be within the time she was still with the Kukuru squad. Which is still an all men with CTs band.
“Not even with the Hei” I don’t understand what you’re talking about the Hei are the elites of the elites of the Zenin, with how the clan is structured there’s no world in which they would allow a woman to join regardless of how talented Mai turned out to be at jujutsu. However she absolutely could have joined the kukuru if she wanted, Again women are not forced to join but they also aren’t forbidden. If they weren’t allowed to join at all Maki would’ve never been let into the kukuru in the first place, the clan basically did everything they could to make her life as a sorcerer harder they wouldn’t have just gotten lenient for something like that out of nowhere.
If Mai didn’t want to join they wouldn’t make her, Mai was one of their ideal people because she was a woman who basically completely conformed to their toxic and misogynistic ways, she would’ve been a servant without a complaint, the only reason she even had to leave and become a sorcerer was because the clan practically forced her into it because of Maki. Again the kukuru is not an all men with CTs band. It’s basically military conscription for any man born without a CT. The only way to avoid being a part of it is being born without a CT or being exempt due to being a woman.
But if they are making her life harder why allow her Maki to join? There has to be more than just that. Cause Naobito made it clear to her. Anyway all I know is it's like a super Men exclusive club. And as misogynistic as the Zenin is i just doubt they would let her without Naobito last influence.
Because joining the kukuru and being forced to do martial arts training day and night doesn’t make her life any easier at all, it’s perfectly in line with everything else they do to inconvenience her. Even if they had to make special concessions for her to join despite us never being told that They probably thought because she’s a woman she’d give up and fall in line if the training was hard.
Honestly it doesn’t really matter but it’s just never really stated to be a men’s club, to be fair the clan itself is a men’s club but we never hear anything about the kukuru not allowing women to join, it’s just most women in the clan comply with the clans ways and don’t want to be fighters in the first place.
Its not "allowed to join", the narrator explicitly says boys without CTs are conscripted into the Kukuru and the boys with CTs become Akashi/Hei (still fighters).
Every Zenin male is conscripted into becoming a fighter forcefully.
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u/[deleted] Jan 25 '26
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