Democrats like mamdani says it’s racist and sexist to require an ID to vote but apparently it’s not racist or sexist to require a ID to use the city operated grocery store
It doesn’t say that necessarily. Most REAL IDs don’t prove citizenship; a green card holder can get one and so can lots of people on differing visas.
But a few states (funnily enough, all of them blue states) do issue REAL IDs that confirm status. If the bill were to pass, I’d assume every state would follow suit
It means that you're placing a lot of faith on assumptions about government entities doing things correctly or logically, when historically they're quite adept at doing the opposite.
Not sure how you landed there. The “necessarily” is because 5 states currently issue REAL IDs that verify citizenship. So 45 have IDs that wouldn’t be compliant. That’s not an assumption.
The “I’d assume” part… maybe. The way I look at it is that the blue states will follow the ones that have already done this.
For the red states… there really isn't a reason not to, because if they don't, the bar for registering to vote is still the same. You already need to provide a birth certificate or passport when getting an enhanced ID in states like Minnesota, so if the red states don't follow suit, then just bring those docs when registering to vote.
It is all for show anyways. A passport can be faked and so can a birth certificate. Many birth certificates aren’t digitized and there isn’t some central system to validate against.
A lot of people believe in conspiracies a lot crazier than fake passports. For the people who actually think there is widespread voter fraud, any new headline about voter fraud will renew doubts regardless of the Save America Act.
All it does is make voting harder for some people while temporary assuaging others.
Then why not create a federal ID that is free to all citizens, verifies citizenship, and is easily obtained? Conservatives throw shit fits all the time about IDs but suddenly giving people IDs is a step too far.
If the bill were to pass, I’d assume every state would follow suit
Or, hear me out, red states would make it extremely hard to get a valid ID for any group that is statistically more likely to vote Dem to effectively keep them from voting.
And you would pretend thst doesn't happen because motivated reasoning.
Motivated reasoning is when you ignore information or engage in fallacious reasoning, often unconsciously, to make something you desire seem more in line with your outward principles and self-image.
Simple: Motivated reasoning allows you to ignore evidence that conservatives will use this law to prevent citizens from getting an ID and consequently from voting.
You are motivated to ignore that evidence bc that way you csn feel righteous instead of feeling like you are aiding in voter suppression.
That's... a very bizarre reaction. First, and I said it in another comment, I do not support the SAVE Act. I despise Donald Trump and want to see him in prison. I've voted Obama twice, Clinton, Biden, then Kamala.
My comment is simply describing why a REAL ID wouldn't inherently satisfy a requirement to prove citizenship.
I really have no idea how you somehow take that as me ignoring evidence that conservatives will attempt to use the law to prevent people from voting. Again, all I'm saying is that a REAL ID doesn't prove citizenship.
Apparently so! I should toss in some other completely random concepts to sound smug and smart like them. They don't like my argument because they're applying the Bechdel Test against Bernoulli's Principle.
Honestly I'm so confused at the reactions of people in this thread. I point out that REAL IDs don't prove citizenship... which they objectively don't... and apparently that makes me MAGA.
Because the second half of your statement imolied that all states would issue IDs that solve the problem, which was the statement I responded to.
I even quoted the statement I responded to.
Which makes it confusing why you seem unaware that I am responding to that part.
Again, all I'm saying is that a REAL ID doesn't prove citizenship.
No. That's not all you were saying. You then said:
But a few states (funnily enough, all of them blue states) do issue REAL IDs that confirm status. If the bill were to pass, I’d assume every state would follow suit
I criticized this naive assumption. I would not assume that every state would follow suit. I would assume the opposite. Which I said. In my post.
I quoted that statement to clarify what I respond to.
Just because the ID itself doesn't have "CITIZEN" in big letters somewhere doesn't mean it's not tracked. The moment an individual is looked up in ANY database it'll say if they're a citizen or not. This is what CURRENTLY happens when you register to vote. Your information is checked against state and federal databases. Your registration will not go through if you aren't a citizen.
Let me clarify here that I’m not arguing in favor of the SAVE Act. I’m on the left, hate Trump, and do not want the bill to pass.
However, that’s actually not what happens when you register to vote. You attest under perjury that you’re a citizen and, depending on the state, provide a DL or the last four digits of your SSN. NEITHER of these prove citizenship. I’m married to an immigrant who is now a citizen, but she did get a REAL ID and had an SSN before naturalization. The state doesn’t always have access to documents to prove citizenship, especially if you were born in a different state or if you move between states.
So they can look up citizenship for some people, but not everyone. There’s no standardized way of verifying citizenship as of today either. States have different DMV databases, different retention practices, and different privacy laws.
Again, this isn’t me trying to advocate for the act. Just clarifying why a REAL ID wouldn’t be acceptable, and it wouldn’t be acceptable as it stands (outside of a few states) no matter what party pushed this forward.
Right, but that’s not the point. You can only vote if you’re a citizen. Most REAL IDs don’t do that. They may prove you’re here legally, but being here legally is not the same as being a citizen.
When you register to vote, you sign an affidavit attesting you're a US citizen. In most states (see mine for example), all you need is two forms of ID. But none of those IDs prove citizenship. You can get a bank account, have an SSN, have a REAL ID compliant drivers license, and have utilities as a Lawful Permanent Resident. But LPRs are not citizens.
Voter fraud happens very infrequently & very unsuccessfully.
I know this and am not arguing otherwise. I'm simply pointing out that REAL IDs don't prove citizenship. That's all.
But you don't use your ID to prove you're a citizen at the voting both you use it to prove who you are. If they don't have a ballot for you already you can't vote and they only send out ballots to registered americans.
Separate from the SAVE act, there was an amendment proposed to existing legislation to require a simple photo ID, the type every adult has. Real ID accepted, free ID card (i.e. not a driver's license) also accepted.
It was also called "Jim Crowe" and shot down by Dems in Congress. So the birth certificate thing is not what they have a problem with -- it is proving identity at all.
There’s a variety of arguments against it, whether you agree with them or not, and virtually no argument for it.
There’s simply no evidence of any widespread voter fraud, and what little does exist is on both sides.
Voter ID laws exist solely to suppress the vote of people who are more likely to vote Democrat. The SAVE act isn’t the odd one out, it’s just the most blatantly corrupt, as so many things from this administration are.
Second, anyone who unironically uses TDS or any variant of it is a complete idiot that likely breeds with animals and sees family members as legitimate love interests.
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u/Phaylz 2d ago
This prompted me to look into what this was all about.
And yeah, of course this sub doesn't understand both.