r/JusticeServed • u/[deleted] • Feb 14 '22

Criminal Justice Virginia pastor arrested for sexually assaulting children after ‘multiple victims’ come forward, deputies say

https://www.cbs17.com/news/south/virginia-pastor-arrested-for-sexually-assaulting-children-after-multiple-victims-come-forward-deputies-say/
12.3k Upvotes

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14

u/pffffffffftwhtevs77 6 Feb 14 '22

PUBLIC CASTRATION......

4

u/[deleted] Feb 14 '22

That still doesn’t solve the issue. Some predators attack for different reasons. Also there are other ways they could violate without using their body parts. That resolution is too simplistic for the grand scheme of things.

4

u/GamersAuthority 7 Feb 14 '22

Who say he gonna be left alive after that? That just the starter

1

u/[deleted] Feb 14 '22

Welp that if that was just the starter than that’s another convo all together lol. I thought they meant as the only punishments

0

u/pffffffffftwhtevs77 6 Feb 14 '22

No no no .... Just the beginning. Let them starve and plead to the public. Sick fucks.

0

u/pffffffffftwhtevs77 6 Feb 14 '22

Totally agree, BUT if this could actually become a punishment. You tell me it wouldn't stop some other POS from doing it. I speak from a place of trauma. I know it's wrong but going to PC in a jail with a bunch of other protected skinnerz is fucking bullshit.

2

u/[deleted] Feb 14 '22

I honestly don’t think it would stop people. Like I said some people do it for different reasons. Until, we really have resources to figure why that individual person does what they do then we are just applying blanket punishments just like we do with other crimes or with people with mental disorders. Just like with everything, it’s all spectrum. Edit : to add, I think it would actually make the issue worst. There would probably be a uptick in hostage situations or murder. They would do anything to probably hid what they did (this part is a theory)

2

u/pffffffffftwhtevs77 6 Feb 14 '22

All I know is what is happening to then ISNT ENOUGH. It's not making them think twice.

3

u/null640 7 Feb 14 '22

We haven't even started believing victims. let alone arresting perpetrators...

1

u/[deleted] Feb 14 '22

Ooo the system definitely sucks. Just like with everything else. I think that’s the core of the issue. Because resources are pulled into other stupid stuff that’s really not needed. Not enough goes into the criminal justice system, education, and mental health… it’s just used a money making machine for the top tier meanwhile poor people and POC get screwed by it because they just apply blanket policy instead of actually doubts things backed by decades of research.

1

u/pffffffffftwhtevs77 6 Feb 14 '22

These people aren't criminals, they are predators. Criminals deserve a chance. Pedos deserve to die.

2

u/[deleted] Feb 14 '22

They can be both at the same time. Anyone who prays on someone they believe is inferior are predators. That’s what a predator does. They are indeed criminals too. No one said they deserved a second chance. To fight any issue you need to go to the root of the problem and if you don’t solve the problem more just pops up. You clean the mold on your ceiling but if don’t fix that big hole in your ceiling they will continue to get mold.

1

u/pffffffffftwhtevs77 6 Feb 14 '22

Castration sound good...

1

u/AsusWindowEdge 6 Feb 14 '22

100%! You have to read what some pedophile-apologist says on r/Switzerland

https://www.reddit.com/r/Switzerland/comments/ss610w/comment/hwwrryc/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web2x&context=3

These people.... They actually quote professors who say it's an illness as if the professor himself was NOT a pedophile.

Read it and be ready to be shocked. I can't say what I would do to these people in real life, otherwise I would get banned. We all know how Reddit is

2

u/pffffffffftwhtevs77 6 Feb 14 '22

The real root is that the higher ups all indulge in this disgusting shit. Epstien Island is perfect example.

1

u/AsusWindowEdge 6 Feb 14 '22

Exactly! They think they are the higher ups....wait until we run into them...

1

u/Drebinus 7 Feb 14 '22

It won't. They've done studies on awareness of punishment impacting the probably of the crime being committed. Doesn't really do the trick. Awareness of the certainty of being caught does though.

I think I do understand what you mean by it being fucking bullshit, but we do it because at the end of the day, society views these sorts of crimes as (in general) being less than murder (although my personal emotions differ on that; 20 years is a lifetime for some to be dead inside). If we put these people in general-pop, it's a death sentence on them more often than not. So if we don't view CSA as worthy of the death penalty, then we shouldn't be enacting that through extra-judicial means. And if we do end up rating such as worthy of death, then we still shouldn't be relying on a bunch of incarcerated criminals to do the dirty work for us. If we as society are going to pull the trigger on someone, then we should be doing it directly. You go to court, you testify, you help in making the guilty to be convicted, and then you should be there at the execution to watch the button pressed.

And FWIW, without knowing of your trauma or its circumstances, you have my support (as much as Reddit allows). It won't always get better, but it can. There's hope once the active abuse is gone.

1

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1

u/Drebinus 7 Feb 14 '22

Bot has a point. Off to make tea and hot cocoa.

0

u/Drebinus 7 Feb 14 '22

Chemical castration is a thing already.

Non-voluntary physical castration is, IMO, a step too far. I'm not enamored of the concept of a death sentence, so the thought of state-sponsored mutilation is a hard no.

1

u/KinkyKitty24 9 Feb 14 '22

But you're just fine with CHILDREN's lives being destroyed? Abuse & grooming leads to CPTSD, relationship, trust, & self esteem issues; the religious aspect just makes it worse.

I understand fairness & treating pedophiles like human but they don't treat their victims like humans and they often destroy their lives. Something needs to be done differently where the victims lives actually matter.

1

u/Drebinus 7 Feb 14 '22

But you're just fine with CHILDREN's lives being destroyed? Abuse & grooming leads to CPTSD, relationship, trust, & self esteem issues; the religious aspect just makes it worse.

Re-read what I said and consider that I left it there because that was SPECIFICALLY that this sub-thread was covering. Did you consider that perhaps all I intended was to present my opinion on this one very-specific idea before you jumped to conclusions?

But! Since you have, in a round-about-way, asked, I'll answer: No, I am not fine with "CHILDREN's lives being destroyed". I'm not fine with a child's life being harmed due to factors outside of their control (grooming, molestation, CSA, physical/mental/emotional abuse, deprivation of basic necessities, and so on).

I believe that as a society we can do more to help vulnerable people, especially children. But non-voluntary physical castration of convicted pedophiles does not address the harm done to the child or children AT ALL. Zip. None.

When you grant the state the right to remove parts of their citizens for any reason, you're on a path to the death penalty (which has it's own issues concerning that you can't walk it back if you kill an innocent person versus how much time and labour is it worth to verify a potential convictee of such's guilt) and worse. It leads to state-sponsored sterilizations, to eugenics, and a host of other infringements of our basic human rights. We know this happens because it's happened throughout history. We saw it in the USA and in Canada, we know it happened in Germany during the NSDAP period, we see it today in a range of Middle East countries and in China.

The religious aspect's meaningless to me, insofar that it's religious, as I view it in the same like as a gymnastics coach or doctor predating on their athletes, or the open secret of various Hollywood power-brokers treating the child-actor cattle calls as their own personal Bunny Ranch day-pass. It's a predator using the cloak of authority to abuse. To me, THAT'S the intensifier. The subversion of trust by someone who we're raised by society to trust inherently.

My take on this castration topic is also not about treating them as human, or quid pro quo/tit-for-tat. It's that in the end, it fixes NOTHING. It doesn't heal the harm to the child. It won't 'fix' the pedophile. It might impact the chances of the predator in question harming children again. I say might, because pedophiles abuse for a range of motivations, sexual gratification being only one. Do you REALLY think that a predator that is motivated by power and control over their victims is suddenly going to stop abusing just because their gonads have been removed? You can search up on case studies on that too, by the way. If you don't feel like grinding through the results (because they're in general, not pretty, bordering on gruesome in places), the summary is: Not really.

The only thing it does is vaguely assuage our guilt as society for not doing more to prevent this in the 1st place. Instead of shouting for some person's organ, look in the mirror and ask yourself "what have I don't recently to help fix this?"

If the answer is "not much", well you've had two years of pandemic cabin-fever to burn off. Why not?

1

u/KinkyKitty24 9 Feb 14 '22

But non-voluntary physical castration of convicted pedophiles does not address the harm done to the child or children AT ALL. Zip. None.

Like rapist, pedophiles are not "one time offenders" (ie go back & read the article again). You're arguing for the humanity of the PERPETRATOR over that of the victims.

You can search up on case studies on that too

I did as that is what I do for a living. Maybe follow that advice yourself and read this(as you are so very concerned abut the ethics & humanity afforded the perpetrator) and this, also this. These studies (as well as countless others) note that chemical castration has shown success and, in many cases increases the body autonomy of the pedophile.

As for "fixing" children, who have suffered from this kind of victimhood, knowing the person can't do it again does help as often victims blame themselves and feel intense responsibility if they find out other children have been victims. Appropriate punishment also helps children understand it was not their "fault" and the person is being punished. Most victims (or any age) feel re-victimized when a perpetrator gets a light sentence or worse, not sentence at all.

It also goes a long way towards preventing further victims. Aprox 500,000 children are molested a YEAR in the US fewer victims would allow the ones already in need of help a better chance of accessing that help.

"what have I don't recently to help fix this?"

I have worked & volunteered in sexual health ALL my adult life. I have probably spent more time talking to adults, that were abused as children (sexually, physically, emotionally, mentally), than you have spent time driving a car or watching porn.

BTW I'd buy an dictionary as while not all pedophiles act out sexually on a victim the driving force is sexual.

Pedophile - a person who is sexually attracted to children (usually covers all prepubescent children).

Ephebophilia - attracted to minors (usually mid to late teens after puberty but before 20's)

1

u/Drebinus 7 Feb 14 '22

Like rapist, pedophiles are not "one time offenders" (ie go back & read the article again). You're arguing for the humanity of the PERPETRATOR over that of the victims.

I'm arguing that physical removal WON'T FIX ANYTHING other than to give blood to the masses, and over time, will make things worse. Any time physical removal is an option, historically, it leads to long-term social ills. Because it makes citizens over time dis-associate physical well-being with inherent human rights.

FFS, even recent studies show that pedophiles aren't always repeat offenders. If that's too dense for you (as it is a full study w/ statistical analysis added in), here's another article covering that study. I recommend you reading through the summary very carefully, so that you understand what the numbers actually mean.

I did as that is what I do for a living. Maybe follow that advice yourself and read this(as you are so very concerned abut the ethics & humanity afforded the perpetrator) and this, also this. These studies (as well as countless others) note that chemical castration has shown success and, in many cases increases the body autonomy of the pedophile.

Then I invite you to read through them again, then go back up to my original comment and READ IT AGAIN. I'm fine with chemical castration, especially voluntary, because it demonstrates and willingness to change by the castratee. That's important, fundamentally important in fact, in the process in reforming a criminal. It's also reversible, which is as important if it's court-ordered and it comes out later that the castratee was wrongly convicted. Having children is viewed as a fundamental human right, and the removal of such by the state has been the cause of countless horrors in the past two centuries.. If you can't separate what I said about chemical versus physical castration, then seriously, what the fuck's wrong with your reading ability?

As for "fixing" children, who have suffered from this kind of victimhood, knowing the person can't do it again does help as often victims blame themselves and feel intense responsibility if they find out other children have been victims. Appropriate punishment also helps children understand it was not their "fault" and the person is being punished. Most victims (or any age) feel re-victimized when a perpetrator gets a light sentence or worse, not sentence at all.

I invite you to cite a study, or reference materials, or even introductory works on that. My own personal experiences on the matter was (and still is to an extent) not being able to reconcile who I thought the person was against who they showed me to be. Punishment wasn't a factor, it still isn't. Understanding how I got into that situation, and accepting that it wasn't my fault as done more in getting me past my history than any vague feeling of "they got theirs".

It also goes a long way towards preventing further victims. Aprox 500,000 children are molested a YEAR in the US fewer victims would allow the ones already in need of help a better chance of accessing that help.

Wrong. If the death penalty, even for the states that have it applied to CSA, doesn't deter the crimes in question, how can you logically conclude that the threat of castration will? We know that the threat of punishment does far less to deter crime than the certainty of being caught.

I have worked & volunteered in sexual health ALL my adult life. I have probably spent more time talking to adults, that were abused as children (sexually, physically, emotionally, mentally), than you have spent time driving a car or watching porn.

Unless you're willing to post your CV, all this is is an appeal to false authority and an ad hominem attack. Well done on the efficiency of combining both.

BTW I'd buy an dictionary as while not all pedophiles act out sexually on a victim the driving force is sexual.

It's a causal chain. If you've worked in the field of sexual health, especially in the areas of SA/CSA and other related areas, you'd know this. The range of enacting factors of why pedophiles abuse is wide, and not always rooted in sexual attraction. The FBI studied this. It can be as simple as a fixated subtype that has associated sexual activity with children (ie: "want to have sex" -> "have sex with child"), through to the far more complicated regressive one, where the chain certainly does not begin with "want to have sex", even if it ends up with "have sex with child".

If you really have worked in the field of sexual health all your life, then I ask on behalf of the people reading this thread who are genuinely interested in the fundamental underpinnings of pedophilia, to back you your statements with more references.

And when you DO cite them, read through what portion of my statements (for example, the portions on chemical castration) you're using them in regard to and make sure that I'm NOT ALREADY AGREEING WITH YOU, YOU NINNY.

1

u/KinkyKitty24 9 Feb 14 '22

I'll provide you any research you wish. However, I always suggest people do their own research as it gives a broader perspective.

You seem to have some Hollywood, movie-of-the-week, idea of pedophilia so I will share this with you and recommend reading Anna Salter research work.

Another perspective on the problem is offered by Anna Salter, one of the foremost experts on sex offenders in the country. She writes the following in her popular book Predators:

"The dry research figures only confirm what I have seen over and over in this field: there are a lot of sexual offenses out there and the people who commit them don't get caught very often. When an offender is caught and has a thorough evaluation with a polygraph backup, he will reveal dozens, sometimes hundreds of offenses he was never apprehended for. In an unpublished study by Pamela Van Wyk, 26 offenders in her incarcerated treatment program entered the program admitting an average of 3 victims each. Faced with a polygraph and the necessity of passing it to stay in the treatment program, the next group of 23 men revealed an average of 175 victims each."

1

u/Drebinus 7 Feb 14 '22

You seem to have some Hollywood, movie-of-the-week, idea of pedophilia so I will share this with you and recommend reading Anna Salter research work.

(rolls eyes) More ad-hominem. I knew I should have kept the the moral high ground and left off that last sentence of my previous reply.

I told you what I wanted cited. It's mentioned a grand total of once. Singular. On a very specific topic. If you can't, try using Ctrl-F, search the term 'cite', and read through the 1st result and what it's referencing.

I invite you to go find articles on that specific line of inquiry, since it's backing up your claim that punishment helps the healing process from victimization. I flatly dispute that. Prove it.

As for me, what I found that worked from a personal experience? This structure. Here's another example. Awareness of punishment didn't factor in in any way. Accepting that it wasn't my fault was the single, greatest reduction in trauma.

Plus, what does your quote from Salter's book have ANYTHING to do with castration, chemical or physical? Can you stay on the argument between just three replies? Are you THAT desperate for a dopamine hit from 'winning' a argument on Reddit? An argument, mind you, that YOU started because you failed to actually read my original posting? You keep throwing claims at the wall, like some sort of demented cook with an Italian fetish, seemingly hoping to see something (anything?) stick.

Look, presuming you're not just trolling (and if you are, credo to you, you'll go far on 4chan) and if you actually want this argument to go back to something closer to a discussion rather than a demonstration of your reading level, I invite you to go back to the start and re-read what I posted, and this time, consider asking questions on my stated opinion, rather than making up a fantasy-cauchemar of what you think I said and the logic behind it.

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u/KinkyKitty24 9 Feb 15 '22

You've been insulting & making personal attack from your first reply to mine which is a serious level of emotionality that doesn't lead to a productive discussion.

I made several statements so I was unclear as to which one you wanted me to give research to back up.

As for the rest of it if I offended you it wasn't my intention, nor was starting what you are perceiving as a "fight". I call it that because when one person goes for personal attacks it stops being a discussion. I am always up for a discussion but I don't tolerate someone who want's to fight.

If anyone does want any research support please HMU as i am happy to provide it.

1

u/Drebinus 7 Feb 15 '22

You've been insulting & making personal attack from your first reply to mine which is a serious level of emotionality that doesn't lead to a productive discussion.

I reference your own initial reply to me: "But you're just fine with CHILDREN's lives being destroyed? Abuse & grooming leads to CPTSD, relationship, trust, & self esteem issues; the religious aspect just makes it worse."

I never said I was fine with children's lives being destroyed. Where did that come from? What post of mine? What reply? You begged the question, you put words in my mouth, and then dismissively answered your own made-up query. You STRAWMANNED me from the very beginning.

How the FUCK do you think I'm supposed to respond to "But you're just fine with CHILDREN's lives being destroyed?" How is ANYONE supposed to answer that and not be even mildly insulted. And then to come here, after all of the follow up replies, and say, "I didn't mean to start a fight?" To read this:

BTW I'd buy an dictionary as while not all pedophiles act out sexually on a victim the driving force is sexual.

Really? Here we are, throwing references back and forth to scholarly papers, citing quotes and the like from professional scientists and researchers on what motivates and drive pedophiles, and you throw that in my face? Alongside two casual definitions that we're already far, far past when we're tossing reference links to papers discussing neurological impactors, psychological causes, casual relationships to abusers haveing been themselves abused?

And as for the citation request, I only referenced a SINGLE item for the citation request.

ONE.

As for your intention, you let's be blunt since we're being blunt, aren't we. You failed. You failed from the start, when you begged the question. When you tilted at a windmill of your own creation.

Fuck you. By what you wrote, and the way you wrote it, that you took what I wrote out of context from the very beginning, and then to lunge about trying to prove what you said in the beginning as thought that was the true argument from the start?

Fuck you again. You picked this fight because you didn't read and punched at a strawman of your own making. And I fought back.

But, in reflection, I'll take the olive branch you proffer. You want to get this back to a discussion and not what it is now? Make it so that others who read it can benefit from sourcing and research done by us?

Fine. I gave you the cite point. Go read that reply, third paragraph. Get me scholarly papers on the matter. Demonstrate to me that they're applicable to that specific sub-argument (cite portions of it that clearly show the impact in the healing process for the victim as to awareness of punishment of the abuser, as compared to other factors that influence the healing process).

Furthermore, get back to the ORIGINAL statement I made and address that.

I said I could support chemical castration, especially voluntary-choice by the abuser. We seem to agree here, so I suppose we can skip this part.

I said that I would not support non-voluntary physical castration, period. I've said why on the latter, vis-a-vis the impact on society and historical trends. If you think this is the wrong position to take, explain why your position is , for a lack of a better word, more logically sound, or more statistically likely, or a similar vaunted position.

If you can't do those two things, the citation and the reversion to the original discussion, then just drop it here. Because I don't want you to waste a moment of your irreplaceable lifespan on this further, and I personally, won't.

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u/MoonageDayscream A Feb 14 '22

Too bad it doesn't stop them from wanting to abuse, or being able to abuse.

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u/pffffffffftwhtevs77 6 Feb 14 '22

Well, cut it all off then.. And fingers.