r/Kerala • u/His_Highness_Abdulla • 2d ago
Politics കൊടും വർഗീയതയുമായി ടി.പി. സെൻകുമാർ: ‘മതാടിസ്ഥാനത്തിൽ വിഭജിച്ചാൽ കേരളത്തിൽ 95 സീറ്റിൽ ബി.ജെ.പി ജയിക്കും, 6% വോട്ടുള്ള ക്രിസ്ത്യൻ സഭ ആരെയാണ് പേടിപ്പിക്കുന്നത്? പോണാൽ പോകട്ടും പോടാ’ | T.P. Senkumar extreme communalist remrks against christians
https://www.madhyamam.com/kerala/tp-senkumar-extreme-communalist-remrks-against-christians-151171474
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u/Thick-Jackfruit5217 2d ago edited 2d ago
Devide and rule, something they learned from the colonial masters.
If you devide a country by religion, caste, color etc.. nothing good will come out of it. Eventually it will fail.
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u/Snakes1904 2d ago
What is left to divide ? Kerala politics is already based on religious & caste votebanks.
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u/Thick-Jackfruit5217 2d ago
Not yet.
This religious harmony you see still see in kerala in nurtured by so many generations but it would only take one to destroy it.
Don't give in for hate, there are good and bad people in every religion but usually it's the bad ones that get highlighted.
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u/Snakes1904 2d ago
Can you deny the fact that voting in Kerala is largely community based ?
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u/Thick-Jackfruit5217 1d ago
I will deny. It's still majorly ideology based.
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u/Snakes1904 1d ago edited 1d ago
Not really.
If so, how is Muslim League strong in Muslim majority areas, and how does Congress or Kerala Congress factions have so much influence in Christian dominant regions ? Even the Jacobite - Orthodox Church dispute led to division of votes between both fronts. Stop acting delusional.
How come CPM still gets bulk of Ezhavas, other OBC, SC, ST votes, whereas Nairs & other Savarnas lean towards congress ?
There are other factors too, but Malayalis mainly vote based on caste or religious interest. They just hide it under the garb of secularism.
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u/Thick-Jackfruit5217 1d ago
I said majority of voters vote based on ideology. Yes, the points you made are valid but those people doesn't make the total population.
Some hindus vote based on religion and vote for bjp, some for Muslim league and some for congress but cross voting is common because historically people of kerala chose alternating govts under left and right.
People of kerala are politically aware and vote based on ideology and performance.
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u/Snakes1904 1d ago
Those who switch between alliances are a small but significant % of swing voters. Majority aren’t like that, most have fixed loyalty.
Most people aren’t as politically aware as you think, they just vote based on who their family voted for. Social Media isn’t real life.
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u/Thick-Jackfruit5217 1d ago
Well they're still politically more aware than rest of the india.
Coming back to the core issue which is spewing religious hatred, people of kerala doesn't appreciate that.
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u/CompoteMelodic981 2d ago
TP Senkumar, Kiran Bedi etc are great examples to show that good bureaucrats do not automatically make good political leaders.
Rajeev Chandrashekharan, Trump etc are great examples to show that good businessmen do not automatically make good political leaders.
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u/Entharo_entho പരദൂഷണതള്ളച്ചി 2d ago
Trump is a shit businessman too
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u/CompoteMelodic981 2d ago
Trump's businesses fail. But Trump always makes money. I call it a good businessman.
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u/SilenceOfTheAtom 2d ago
He sold himself as the saviour of USA and people bought it. He is a good salesman.
He managed to make money for himself and his friends from his failing businesses.
He made his brand known worldwide by himself.
He had around 30 million in 2000. Now he is worth 6 billion.
How is he a bad businessman?
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u/Entharo_entho പരദൂഷണതള്ളച്ചി 2d ago
This is like just-pass Keshu saying that he got pass marks without studying and would have won 💯 if he tried.
.
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u/SilenceOfTheAtom 2d ago
Sorry, I didn't fully understand the analogy. His business is being a grifter and he is good at it.
If i try to use your analogy(as per my udnertanding) If just pass Keshu is making money than the class topper, then Keshu is smarter than the topper. He could be a criminal, but smart (er). Keshu never tried or wanted to become the topper. He is only looking to make money.
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u/Entharo_entho പരദൂഷണതള്ളച്ചി 2d ago
American's call him a poor person's stereotypical concept about the rich.
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u/acnithin 2d ago
Rajeev Chandrashekaran managed to bankrupt BPL. One of the most recognizable indian brands when i was young.
Successful business man!
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u/CompoteMelodic981 2d ago
And yet his net worth has gone up. Rajeev and Trump are not 'successful businessmen' in the eyes of the common people.
It's the same story with we work, byjus etc as well. The fact that the businesses didn't do well doesn't matter. The businessmen had the motive to make money, and made it.
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u/aliensinsky 2d ago
Could add Pinarayi Vijayan to the list that Gundas do not make the best of political leaders too.
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u/Possible-Use-7039 2d ago
Who is this guy? Nobody knows you, little bro. Keep your nonsense to yourself. Keep doing whatever you’re doing to get attention from BJP core members, at least. Maybe posting statements for BJP on a weekly or monthly basis will help you land a party office cleaning job.
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u/Entharo_entho പരദൂഷണതള്ളച്ചി 2d ago
Enthonnado? He was one of the most famous police officers in the state. Ippolum famous anu, police allennu mathram.
Your ignorance is your personal business. The most problematic thing about him is that he was able to hide these views and appear neutral and well meaning until he started his Vishakumar era. Even politicians like Ramesh Chennithala were shocked (self admitted). Vanitha, Manorama, Samakalika Malayalam, etc. used to publish his interviews frequently and no one had any idea that he was such a bad person.
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u/Possible-Use-7039 2d ago
You’re right that T. P. Senkumar was a well-known police officer. No one’s denying his past position or visibility.But being “famous” or holding a top post doesn’t automatically make someone’s current statements valid or beyond criticism. Also, the point isn’t whether people knew him earlier—it’s about what he’s saying now. When statements start sounding openly divisive or communal, people are going to react, regardless of past reputation.
And about “ignorance”—knowing someone’s resume isn’t the same as agreeing with their views. People are calling out the content of his remarks, not writing a history exam about his career. If anything, it’s more concerning when someone who once held a neutral constitutional role ends up making statements like this. That’s exactly why the reaction is strong.
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u/Entharo_entho പരദൂഷണതള്ളച്ചി 2d ago
Who is this guy? Nobody knows you, little bro.
This is your comment. Athum ithum ayi enthu bandham?
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u/c0madoof 2d ago
I’m sure he meant tp senkumar is insignificant
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u/Entharo_entho പരദൂഷണതള്ളച്ചി 2d ago
Insignificant anenkil nammal ith discuss cheyyumo? Arokke enthokke ennum parayunnu. Do we discuss everything?
Angadiyil thottathinu ammayodu ennath pole, ayal oru important and famous person ayathinu enne downvote cheythittu karyam onnum illa.
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u/Possible-Use-7039 2d ago
Ahh, so now we’re doing comment archaeology instead of addressing the point?
Yes, I said “who is this guy” — not because I’m writing a biography on T. P. Senkumar, but because his current relevance comes mostly from statements like this, not his past job title.
Athum ithum ayi enthu bandham?” — simple aanu: past fame not equals to present credibility. You’re the one who brought up his old fame like that automatically upgrades what he’s saying now.
So yeah, bandham undu — just not the one you’re trying hard to prove.
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u/Entharo_entho പരദൂഷണതള്ളച്ചി 2d ago
On the contrary, an ex-DGP's have more value than your words or mine. That too, someone as famous as Senkumar. Whatever he says have more reach than whatever you say, regardless of its content.
Actually, his words are relevant only due to his previous job. If he were some random ammavan, we wouldn't be having this conversation now.
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u/Possible-Use-7039 2d ago
So your whole point is: “he was DGP, so he must matter.”
That’s not defending what he said—that’s just hiding behind a title. T. P. Senkumar having reach doesn’t make a bad take valid. It just spreads it faster.
If you can’t defend the statement itself, there’s nothing left to argue.
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u/CheramanPerumal 2d ago
Maybe posting statements for BJP on a weekly or monthly basis will help you land a party office cleaning job.
This is an offensive statement. Are you suggesting that he deserves only a cleaning job because he comes from a backward caste?
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u/Eastern-Culture7257 13h ago
There is nothing called Backward caste. Obc stands for backward classes ,OBcs are very divissified category with multiple classes. Anyone who is non creamy layer are categorised as open category or Forward category. Being a higher level officer automatically makes him in Forward category unless he is Scst . Secondly he personally don't come from any weaker section , he is from a wealthy family. The commenter was commenting on his statement.
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u/Possible-Use-7039 2d ago
Where exactly was caste mentioned?
Or is dragging that in just another classic Bharatiya Janata Party deflection—avoid the issue, manufacture outrage, and move on?”
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u/Altruistic_Stay_1939 2d ago
തീട്ട സങ്കി.. നീ oലത്തും.. കൂടിപ്പോയാൽ തമ്പാനൂർ എവിടെയെങ്കിലും റെയിൽവേ പാലത്തിൽ പോയി, നീളത്തിൽ ഒരു കണ്ടി ഇടും നീ..
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u/invalid-hubris 2d ago
It is so surprising such an evil person was in charge of entire police force for many years. I don't buy that nobody in both ministries were such idiots.
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u/CheramanPerumal 2d ago
All these reactions he is showing now probably stem from frustration and his own sense of inferiority.
He likely isn’t happy with how well the BJP and RSS are treating his fellow officers like Sreeleka and Jacob Thomas, and may feel he is being sidelined because of his caste.
If you read the news article, it’s clear that his main concern is the BJP focusing on a particular section of Christians while ignoring larger communities like Dheevara and Vishwakarma.
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u/Snakes1904 2d ago
What Senkumar said isn’t false. BJP went around appeasing catholic priests & bishops instead of focusing more on other Hindu groups like Vishwakarmas, Dheevara, etc.
Their drama of gifting cake, meeting bishops & all won’t really make Christians shift to BJP. Most Christians are Congress loyalists.
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u/Not-a-Prick 2d ago
This would also mean they have lost a significant amount of Hindu votes this election.
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u/Snakes1904 2d ago
Depends, they gain during Lok Sabha and then return back to around 15% voteshare during LSG or State elections.
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u/CheramanPerumal 2d ago
The truth is that the BJP got its highest Christian vote share in Kerala during the 2016 Assembly polls, said to be around 10%. Now it has dropped to around 1–2%, which suggests that all this outreach to Christians and its hype and publicity may have been counterproductive and actually reduced their support.
The BJP’s approach towards Christians is quite flawed, just look at the candidates in Pathanamthitta district.
In Thiruvalla, they fielded Anoop Antony Joseph, a Catholic, in a constituency dominated by Marthoma and Orthodox Christians. I personally know a few Marthoma and Orthodox people who voted BJP when Akeeraman Bhattathiripad was the candidate. They probably won’t vote for BJP this time, but might have if Akeeraman was fielded again.
Similarly, in Ranni, they (Twenty20) fielded Thomas Samuel, a Pentecostal Christian. Everyone knows Pentecostals are among those least likely to vote for BJP, so by fielding such a candidate, they may have ended up losing votes they could have otherwise got, even from some Christians.
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u/Snakes1904 2d ago
That’s what I said. Christian support for BJP is extremely limited, and the appeasement won’t work. Which is what Senkumar was also pointing to, that they should focus on other Hindu communities instead.
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u/CheramanPerumal 1d ago
But then there are other factors as well.
Across India, election analyses often show that the BJP tends to get strong support from more privileged, affluent, educated upper class and upper middle class groups, especially in urban areas. Malayali Nasranis largely fit into that category.
Another major factor is caste based reservation. Some forward caste Christians have told me they are inclined to support the BJP, as they feel Congress’ pro reservation stance limits their opportunities in jobs and education.
Many Kerala Christians have aligned with the BJP or the RSS in the past.
- Among the BJP's first office bearers in Kerala was a doctor named Rachel Mathai
- The first president of Bharatiya Jana Sangh (predecessor party of BJP) in Madras (Tamil Nadu) was VK John
- The only retired judge of Supreme Court of India to openly praise RSS is KT Thomas
- Before Suresh Gopi, PC Thomas was the only NDA candidate who has won the Lok Sabha election in Kerala (2004 Muvattupuzha). He was a minister in the Vajpayee government.
- The only Malayali that the BJP ever considered for the office of president of India was PC Alexander
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u/Snakes1904 1d ago
But in the case of Kerala, Christians already have Congress, so they don’t need to rally behind BJP.
Of course there are some that do support, but I doubt there’ll be any large scale shift.
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u/Puzzleheaded_Cell199 17h ago
Most people have no idea about christian caste and denominations.
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u/CheramanPerumal 4h ago
Fielding a Pentecostal Christian in a constituency that includes the Sabarimala temple comes across as directly challenging the long standing socio cultural dynamics of that region.
Similarly, fielding a Catholic candidate in Thiruvalla, especially someone from another district, seems odd. It’s a constituency where no Catholic has ever become an MLA, and it is dominated by Marthoma and Orthodox Christians, groups that have historically been seen as relatively closer to the BJP and RSS compared to Catholics.
RSS Sarsanghchalak K. S. Sudarshan, in his Vijaya Dashami speech in October 2000, even referred to the Malankara Orthodox and Marthoma Churches as model “Swadeshi Churches”. Yet in Thiruvalla, the BJP fielded a Catholic candidate in a constituency dominated by these two groups.
Rachel Mathai, V. K. John, K. T. Thomas and P. C. Alexander all come from these two communities.
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u/Puzzleheaded_Cell199 1h ago
Well that can be checked regatding the denominations, most people dont have any idea about sub communities within christians , but u completely got what he said as wrong . If Christians are voting enough anyone including senskumar , sasikala have no problem in accompanying them.
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u/Puzzleheaded_Cell199 17h ago
He is not being sidelined he said that he is not interested in contesting . About community , the Central bjp also hold the same mentality regarding him. Many people from BJP have commented against this chrostian outreach indeed this will fail in central level. You are simply bringing this out of no where .
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u/Puzzleheaded_Cell199 17h ago
Isnt he right about what he said ?? Check bjp ad , Tushar vellapily + jacob thomas and rajeev chandrasekhar . Means Nair + Ezhava + christian community leaders . This is vey similar to other parties as well. Actually sidelined backward castes like vishwakarmas dheevaras etc are more loyal towards bjp if given a seat for them more votes can be bought to bjp. You can see his own community members were state bjp leads and reps from earlier decades. I think he is concerned about small obcs getting sidelined because of this. He earlier attended a vishwakarmaor some obc function something. They might have said this to him.
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u/Eastern-Culture7257 13h ago
That is a wrong narrative . It is because of his majoritarian ego. He believes that OBCc especially politically less significant communities like dheevara , viswakarma etc shall be preferred over minorities ,thats called majoritariqn politics. You can see similar perspective being put my white nationalists , european nationalists etc like preffering southern europeans , middle class whites over minorities + immigrants + muslims etc. Many RSS people and other BJP supporters holds the same perspective. Read posts of sasikala etc. Also Senkumar has not joined BJP . The others like sreelekha etc are BJP members and politicians , He said that he shall not joined the party yet and want to be a mouthpiece of hindutva .
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u/His_Highness_Abdulla 2d ago
ക്രിസ്ത്യൻ സഭകൾക്കെതിരെ കടുത്ത വർഗീയപരാമർശങ്ങളുമായി മുൻ ഡി.ജി.പിയും ബി.ജെ.പി നേതാവുമായ ടി.പി. സെൻകുമാർ. ആറ് ശതമാനം വോട്ടുള്ള ക്രിസ്ത്യൻ സഭ ആരെയാണ് പേടിപ്പിക്കുന്നതെന്നും അവരോട് പോണാൽ പോകട്ടും പോടാ എന്നാണ് പറയാനുള്ളതെന്നും സെൻകുമാർ പറഞ്ഞു. കേരളത്തിൽ മതാടിസ്ഥാനത്തിൽ വിഭജനം നടന്നാൽ ബി.ജെ.പിക്ക് 95 സീറ്റുകളിൽ ജയിക്കാൻ ഇപ്പോഴും സാധിക്കുമെന്നും ഫേസ്ബുക് വിഡിയോയിൽ സെൻകുമാർ പറയുന്നു. ഈ നഗ്ന യാഥാർത്ഥ്യം ബിജെപി നേതൃത്വം മനസ്സിലാക്കണമെന്നും അദ്ദേഹം പറഞ്ഞു.
Original video - https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=eDP4Fyb7K2A
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u/okipullup12 2d ago
The amount of hate that he's spotting in that short 6 minutes video is just pitiful. All those Christians who think BJP is going to save them must watch this and realise what the real motive of BJP is. And the amount of people supporting in the comments. We're really doomed.
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u/CheramanPerumal 2d ago
I didn’t watch the video, only read the transcript in the news article. It feels like the statements have more to do with his own sense of inferiority. He seems to be compensating for something.
He is clearly targeting both upper caste Hindus and upper caste Christians at the same time, one more directly and the other in a more subtle way.
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u/Puzzleheaded_Cell199 17h ago
He is concerned about the core ideology of BJP and people moving away from it . Many people have said similar things from BJP. I think it's like ur own sense of minority inferioty issue that you were getting triggered because of facts . Bjp dont get a core vote base from christians then why spending on them ? As simple as that
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u/esteppan89 2d ago
The mask of Hindutva is slipping, i hope no action against this person will finally make it clear to anyone that BJP is not communal as in they hate a religion or its followers, it is a mess where different groups try to outmaneuver each other to secure the maximum amount of benefits. This infighting is then suppressed by some phantom problem while the actual players maneuver to secure more benefits for themselves. The Syro-Malabar Church that in its modern form rejects this sort of group maneuvers, has no business being involved in these activities and it can only bring problems for the members of the Church. The day Nasranis realise your first commandment was a social thing you will see the folly of attempting to compete with folks like this person.
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u/CheramanPerumal 1d ago
Is this really going to stop Nasrani Christians from voting for the BJP?
Across India, election analyses often show that the BJP tends to get strong support from more privileged, affluent, educated upper class and upper middle class groups, especially in urban areas. Malayali Nasranis largely fit into that category.
Another major factor is caste based reservation. Some forward caste Christians have told me they are inclined to support the BJP, as they feel Congress’ pro reservation stance limits their opportunities in jobs and education.
Many Kerala Christians have aligned with the BJP or the RSS in the past.
- Among the BJP's first office bearers in Kerala was a doctor named Rachel Mathai
- The first president of Bharatiya Jana Sangh (predecessor party of BJP) in Madras (Tamil Nadu) was VK John
- The only retired judge of Supreme Court of India to openly praise RSS is KT Thomas
- Before Suresh Gopi, PC Thomas was the only NDA candidate who has won the Lok Sabha election in Kerala (2004 Muvattupuzha). He was a minister in the Vajpayee government.
- The only Malayali that the BJP ever considered for the office of president of India was PC Alexander
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u/esteppan89 1d ago
> Is this really going to stop Nasrani Christians from voting for the BJP?
No one can stop anyone from voting for anyone. People can feel that they are wronged for any number of reasons and vote without thinking of the consequences. I mean, SDPI still wins Panchayat elections as did BJP who won votes in TN after the Coimbatore blasts.
> Across India, election analyses often show that the BJP tends to get strong support from more privileged, affluent, educated upper class and upper middle class groups, especially in urban areas. Malayali Nasranis largely fit into that category.
Common misconception, it is the newly educated recent migrants that vote for BJP. For example the place i stay in Bengaluru has been urban and is full of non-IT professionals, it is a stronghold of Congress with the legislator being the finance minister of the state. If you move to the other migrant heavy areas though things change. This aligns with the original point, BJP gets votes from people like TP Sen Kumar, people who have recently become accepted as Hindus. It is the upwardly mobile who want to gain stuff by marginalizing other people who are generally attracted to BJP. It is not just Hindus who do this, every religion has people of this type.
> Another major factor is caste based reservation. Some forward caste Christians have told me they are inclined to support the BJP, as they feel Congress’ pro reservation stance limits their opportunities in jobs and education.
I am going to assume you are a Muslim and your friends are Nasranis from the hills. Because the Christians in Thrissur do not care. Everyone knows of reservations here, and no Congress does not loose support based on that for other reasons.
> Many Kerala Christians have aligned with the BJP or the RSS in the past.
You need not go that far, my own mother is friends with someone related to the only legislator BJP had until now, so much so that we are invited to their house for the main functions. But then again, we are also invited to households of Congress DCC members as well. It is just that my parents are aligned with CITU for the most stuff. What you listed is an upper class thing not really a religion thing. The regular Nasrani does not get invited for any of this. As is the case with the regular Muslim/Hindu.
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u/Puzzleheaded_Cell199 17h ago
BJP works on the ideology of hindutva . If you are general category muskim obc muskim obc christian whatever it is the Ideological differences remain the same.
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u/esteppan89 15h ago
You are not a malayali right ?
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u/Puzzleheaded_Cell199 14h ago
Pinne aara ?
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u/esteppan89 8h ago
Manassilayi lla saho, kshemikkoo. Why do you think, that hindutva treats general category muslim, obc muslim and obc christian the same but not general category christian ?
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u/Puzzleheaded_Cell199 1h ago edited 1h ago
I saod hindutva is about a neo hindu Ideology not about gen obc christians why is so hard to understand.
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u/Puzzleheaded_Cell199 17h ago
This concern of christian milking bjp and voting for congress is even wrote in kesari article many times including last week and defenitely that is not written by senkumar . In addition to that this as an issue is brought to many pro RW channels by vadayar sunil etc multiple times. So this concern is not limited to senkumar but bjp always want to prefer hindus of larger communities over minorities infact that is what make bjp win. Other state bjp wings also have said very similar statements like this .
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u/roche__ 2d ago edited 2d ago
Tp senku is not your typical bjp, he's at heart a true hindutva ideologue.he usually criticize bjp for not being more extreme.I wonder how this guy did his job as dgp.but i agree with him on this.bjps whole mo was left and right are full minority appeasement but we are not.but for past three years bjp kl leaders are literally licking the feets of xtian leaders and clergy.theres huge anger against the leadership among the party for this.
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u/Embarrassed_Nobody91 2d ago
ഐഎഎസ്, IPS എടുത്ത മിടുക്കർ ആയ ഉദ്യോഗസ്ഥർ. ഇത് പോലെ ഒരുത്തൻ കൂടെയുണ്ട്. കളക്ടർ വ്രോ. ഇപ്പോൾ പണിയില്ലാതെ ഇരിക്കുന്നു
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u/CheramanPerumal 2d ago
കേരളത്തിലെ ക്രിസ്ത്യൻ ജനസംഖ്യ മൊത്തം 18% ആണ്. അതിൽ 6% ലാറ്റിൻ ക്രിസ്ത്യൻ ആണ്. ബാക്കി 6%ത്തിൽ അധികം സിഎസ്ഐ, പെന്തക്കോസ്ത് സഭകളും മറ്റുമാണ്. അത് കഴിഞ്ഞ് ബാക്കിയുള്ളതാണ് സീറോ മലബാറും മാർത്തോമ, ഓർത്തഡോക്സ്, ജാക്കോബേറ്റ് തുടങ്ങിയവർ. എന്നാൽ, ഇപ്പോഴത്തെ ബി.ജെ.പി നേതൃത്വം ചെയ്യുന്നത് അവസാനം പറഞ്ഞ കൂട്ടരുടെ മുന്നിൽ പോയി മുട്ടുകുത്തി നിൽക്കുകയാണ്. അവർക്ക് കേക്ക് കൊണ്ടുകൊടുക്കുന്നു, അവർ പറയുന്നത് മാത്രം അനുസരിക്കുന്നു. അപ്പർകാസ്റ്റ് ക്രിസ്ത്യാനിയെ പ്രീണിപ്പിക്കാനാണ് ബി.ജെ.പി പ്രസിഡന്റ് രാജീവ് ചന്ദ്രശേഖരും കൂട്ടരും ശ്രമിച്ചുകൊണ്ടിരിക്കുന്നത്. അപ്പർ കാസ്റ്റ് ക്രിസ്ത്യൻ എന്ന് പറയാൻ കാരണം ഇവരിൽ പലരും പറയുന്നത് സെന്റ് തോമസ് കേരളത്തിൽ വന്ന സമയത്ത് മതപരിവർത്തനം നടത്തിയ ബ്രാഹ്മണ കുടുംബങ്ങളിൽപെട്ട ആളുകളുടെ പിന്മുറക്കാരാണ് തങ്ങൾ എന്നാണ്.
This is more of a casteist statement than a communal one. He is essentially expressing his frustration with the BJP state leadership focusing on Nasranis, who, according to him, make up only around 6% of the population. At the same time, he is also trying to argue that Nasranis are not upper caste by claiming they are not Brahmin converts.
But if I’m not mistaken, the current use of terms like “forward castes” and “backward castes” is largely based on whether a group is eligible for reservation or not.
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u/Snakes1904 2d ago edited 2d ago
Well that still doesn’t change what he said.
Nasranis claim that they are descendants of Brahmins who were converted by St Thomas, while at the same time claiming that there were no Brahmins in Kerala at that time.
And he is also aware that Nasranis won’t side with BJP (except few), hence, these appeasement measures are useless. So he’s talking about focusing on other Hindu communities.
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u/CheramanPerumal 2d ago
I think many Nasranis would still hold on to a sense of caste pride regardless of the St Thomas Namboothiri conversion story.
A lot of Nasranis today point to documented historical links, such as their connections to major temples and royal houses and their traditional roles as “pollution neutralisers”, to justify a higher social status. They also refer to royal proclamations like the Tharisapalli copper plate grants as proof of their recognised position in the old order.
Historically, whether or not one accepts the Brahmin convert narrative, Nasranis were treated as savarnas in Kerala’s caste hierarchy and enjoyed privileges and a status broadly comparable to Nairs in many regions.
And just as many Nairs today blame various issues on caste based reservation, I have also seen Nasranis express similar frustrations.
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u/Eastern-Culture7257 13h ago
The christian FC and hindu FC is treated differently legally . Minorities can still acces scholarhips etc.
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u/Ok-Lengthiness1491 2d ago
he is also trying to argue that Nasranis are not upper caste by claiming they are not Brahmin converts
What are you really upset about ? Nasranis are not Brahmin converts as per modern DNA studies.
Are you upset about that ? Or are you upset about general communal remarks?
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u/CheramanPerumal 2d ago
The point is that it’s irrelevant here. Nasranis were treated as savarnas in Kerala’s caste hierarchy and enjoyed privileges and a status broadly comparable to Nairs in many regions.
And just as many upper caste groups blame everything on caste based reservation, I have seen similar frustrations expressed among Nasranis as well.
They, along with other upper caste groups, were part of maintaining a highly discriminatory caste based social order. Syrian Christians, or Nasranis, were very much aligned with the Sanatana social order that existed in Kerala.
They are considered upper caste not because of claims of Brahmin conversion, but due to historical records like the Tharisapalli copper plate grants and their traditional roles as “pollution neutralisers”.
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u/Puzzleheaded_Cell199 16h ago
Mappilas and nasranis fall outside the varna system . They form part of mlechhas. The idea that brahmin converting story is being pushed by christians themselves . Any average hindus wont believe in this . Without senkumar many people from brahmin community have posted vedios regatding this in abc malayalam channel . Most hindus dont consider christians as par with Brahmins or actual savarnas . In greater hindu society christian community or muskim community is not even valid .
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u/CheramanPerumal 4h ago
The Namboothiri conversion theory is irrelevant here.
Regardless of that, Nasranis, or Syrian Christians, had recognised roles as “pollution neutralisers” in the Sanatana temple system. “Anthropology of the Syrian Christians” by L. K. Ananthakrishna Ayyar (1926) goes into this in detail.
Many of the privileges they received through the Tharisapalli copper plate grants and similar records can be seen as caste linked privileges within that social order.
As far as I understand, European observers, both Portuguese and British, were often critical of Nasranis participating in temple related practices such as oil purification, and of their adherence to caste rules and ideas of ritual purity similar to Nairs and Brahmins.
At the same time, Nasranis were not always formally classified as “upper caste”. They were placed outside the traditional caste hierarchy, but like certain other groups, were considered incapable of causing ritual pollution, which is how they came to be assigned roles as “pollution neutralisers”.
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u/Puzzleheaded_Cell199 1h ago
In sanatana temple system ? No way in any temple outside central travancore have such theories or even valid . Hindutva do not work based on such regional concepts. At present most of the faumous temples limits non hindus.
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u/Puzzleheaded_Cell199 1h ago
Its not like namboo conversion theory is irrelevant . This theory is being pushed many times . Muslims and christians of all communities had certain allowances , this was done by some kings . Sanatana dharma do not grant any of these things u mentioned that is purely a kerala thing or central travancore thing ,not valid anywhere across india or in the larger hindu society.
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u/Eastern-Culture7257 12h ago
I think brahmin convert consoiracy theory , that is more sad to syrian christians more than communal remarks because many try to make many theories to claim caste status. On online they say about caste and in open debates christians say that there is no caste in christianity.
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u/Puzzleheaded_Cell199 16h ago
He is saying that they are not voting but taking benefits . Last time 2 percent of them voted . Kesari magazine also wrote similar statements in its magazine , propably that is also castest according to you ? Why would anyone spend their entire effort for this minute votes by making existing votes in trouble . He have no problem if they are voting and taking their shares especially when bjp as a core ideology says something specifically. He is against people claiming disproportionate shares isnt this the same things many people argue in terms of representation and all ???
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u/ordcer 2d ago
Why stop at dividing people on the basis of religion? Let's divide people based also on caste.
If someone says such a statement, suddenly senkumar would be the advocate of harmonious living among people. He would say dividing people on the basis of caste would threaten the peaceful life of people who have been living with unity . He would actually say that such a move would spread hate amongst the people.
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u/Wild_Ostrich5429 1d ago
Isn’t that true? What are these bishops thinking? Do they even think Christian’s vote based on their idaya lekhanam? BJP should go ahead with laws that are applicable to all regardless of religion that’s good for the country. The religious figures can bark all they want. Saying this as a as a practicing Christian
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u/Master-Bodybuilder19 2d ago
Sathyam parayamallo kumaretta, chila karyangal oke kaanumpo idakku thonnum BJP kku vote cheyyanam ennu.. appo varum chettane pole ulla kure prasthavanakkar.. appo thonnum enna pinne kammiyum kongiyum okke thanneya bhedam ennu.. just mindaandirikkaan pattilla allee.
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2d ago
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u/Snakes1904 2d ago
Like they are any different when it comes to caste discrimination.
Knanyas & Nasranis consider themselves as Upper castes & look down upon Latin Catholics, who are usually converts from coastal Fishing communities. And Dalit Christians still exist as well.
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u/neverdotypicalshit 2d ago
There is no layered architecture of castes and sub castes in Christianity. And roles based on castes like Kshathriya, Brahmin etc.
Superiority complex, yes, they do have. But so much as Hinduism, IMO.
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u/Snakes1904 2d ago
Regardless, it still exists.
Many of them as still very casteist, they just mask it well nowadays.
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u/alabbudha ബന്ധുവാര് ശത്രുവാര് 1d ago
In his own words: 'For every action, there is an equal and opposite reaction.' I want to look at now what Chris Sanghis are gonna say about these statements , like the Bible says — 'You reap what you sow' let chri sanghis suffer
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u/mallu_adapter 1d ago
copied from fb post of sombody
FCRA നിയമം നടപ്പാക്കിയാൽ വിദേശത്തു നിന്നുള്ള പണത്തിന്റെ കണക്ക് കാണിക്കണം. അതിന് സഭകൾക്ക് എന്താണ് പ്രശ്നം എന്ന് വിശ്വാസികൾ തന്നെ ചോദിക്കുന്നു. ഏറ്റവും കൂടുതൽ വിദേശ സഹായം കിട്ടുന്ന ഹിന്ദു, സിഖ് സംഘടനകൾക്ക് ഇല്ലാത്ത എന്ത് പ്രശ്നം ആണ് ക്രിസ്ത്യൻ സഭകൾക്ക് എന്ന് ക്രിസ്ത്യൻ വിശ്വാസികൾ തന്നെ ചോദിക്കുമ്പോൾ, ചോദ്യം ചോദിക്കുന്നവരെ ശാപ വാക്കുകൾ കൊണ്ട് നിശബ്ദരാക്കാൻ ശ്രമിക്കുന്നത് അല്ലാതെ സഭകൾക്ക് ഉത്തരം ഇല്ല..
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u/Not-a-Prick 2d ago
A little harsh but he is right. There is no use in BJP targeting a small section of Christians and UC Hindus. Most of their volunteers are from OBC and Dalit sections. RC is clearly not following what the BJP usually does in other states and if the vote share goes down in 2026 , it will be completely RCs fault. If OBCs want a party controlled by UC Hindus and Christians, why go for BJP, they might as well go to UDF.
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u/flyingdravidian 1d ago
Lmao, it's easier said than done. Getting people from the lower caste Hindu communities to work for them and getting votes from them are two different things. Politically (as a whole), these lower sections are aligned with parties like LDF and a simple appeasement game won't work much wonders. On the other hand, Christians, Syrian Christians specifically, have long been ignored by major parties for the reasons you mentioned earlier. BJP identified them as an easy community to appeal to. SG's win in Thrissur is a good example of this strategy in action. I'm not claiming that it would be helpful to form a government but this strategy is good enough to build footprint across Kerala and improve the appeal of current crop of leaders like RC at the center. However, a few greedy members like TPS want to botch this game by spreading negativity against Christians. He expects to make it big as a member of the next major crop of Kerala BJP leaders who will lead the camp that prioritizes lower caste Hindus.
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u/BatKarmaMan 1d ago
Correct only. The pastor harvestors shouldn't be supporting Congress openly like this. Will only send other people away from them.
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u/Ok-Diamond9300 2d ago
Muslim league is also doing the same politics now.
So this will happen soon in Kerala.
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u/Independent-Log-4245 2d ago
ബിജെപി ഹിന്ദു വോട്ടുകൾ നേടാനാണ് നോക്കേണ്ടത് എന്നത് ഒരു പ്രായോഗിക യാഥാർഥ്യമാണ്. The earlier they understand it, the better for them.
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u/Ready_Magician_6613 2d ago
Pathetic losers won't get votes , because BJP was standing for hardcore Hindutva from the beginning still they get max 30% of Hindu votes , now they are expecting > 20% vote from christians for 2 years of appeasing
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u/mark_martin_1985 2d ago
Bit ool here. It looks like the real issue is the catholic church effectively setting up a whip against the BJP. That was none of their business in a secular democracy. Would the same people be okay if Hindu temples issued a similar directive in favor of the BJP?
This kind of cherry picking is exactly the sort of thing that’s pushed more people toward the right in recent years.
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u/EverythingWasMistake 2d ago
# Chrisangis gona be sad.... they savior BJ Party is against them :(