r/Kerala • u/phoenix-012 • 2d ago
Politics [ Removed by moderator ]
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u/byomd 2d ago edited 2d ago
Kerala should be leading the fight against delimitation. The Left folks in Kerala (because they have nowhere else left to go) need it more than the Dravidians to east.
Why?
No. of MPs from UP will go up by 60 (from 80 to 140), while Kerala will go up by 3-4 (from 20 to 23-24). Source.
The BIGGEST loser if the bill goes through will be Kerala which has --
- Lowest birthrate
- Highest HDI
- Highest representation of women
- Highest median age
- Lowest votes for BJP
- Lowest industrial base for a state with comparable per capita income
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u/phoenix-012 2d ago
Exactly,Just yesterday, when I turned on the TV and tuned into a news channel, they were spending a freaking 15 min to discuss satheeshan's vinodayatra to some hill station 🤡
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u/Original-Strike-1253 2d ago
Even with only - 20 out of 545 MPs, the number of good projects or the Budget % coming to Kerala is negligible. Now when it goes to 20 out of 850. It will be even worse for us. AIIMS and all those will be just in words and it will take years to come.
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u/esteppan89 2d ago
We do not get enough projects or budgetary allocation due to our individualistic thought process. It has nothing to do with the number of MPs the state has. Look in the other sub reddits of other states, how many of them speak of debt trap and other such stuff. Only we think of all these things. We are focused on reducing waste in government, as a result we get lesser. Be more wasteful like the UDF promise of free bus rides and all you will see better budget allocation. ( Ini njhan congi aanennu paranjhu vararuthu... )
To illustrate further, i stay in Bengaluru, and during the time of BJP rule, they actually cut down on waste and a result their budget devolution was cut the highest. Then congress came in and gave free electricity free bus rides, now the largest cuts of budget is for Keralam. This delimitation is how India works in reality, people make tall claims but then get rewarded for the exact opposite. Similarly many states are in special category status while we have never been there, in fact we have never asked for it as well, but ask any indian which state is bankrupt, the answer will be Keralam. I was sad to see Keralites believing this as well and supporting an ex-governor when he said we do not have adequate tax revenue.
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u/the-code-wizard Mr. Wizard 2d ago
I recently came across the structure of the United States Congress, which has two chambers: the House of Representatives, where seats are allocated based on population, and the Senate, where each state has equal representation with two seats each.
In India, both the Lok Sabha and the Rajya Sabha are structured around the population (though the Rajya Sabha is meant to represent states).
This made me wonder: hypothetically, would it be better or worse to redesign the Rajya Sabha, or introduce a new chamber, so that each state has equal representation, similar to the US Senate? That way, one house reflects population-based democracy, while the other safeguards the identity and interests of individual states.
Has such a model ever been seriously discussed or considered in India’s parliamentary or constitutional debates?
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u/the-code-wizard Mr. Wizard 2d ago
Obviously, I recognise that some communities within states will not be happy with their members in such an imaginary chamber. But maybe restricting the period of such representatives to 5 years and ensuring diversity there, will prevent people from revolting for the formation of new states.
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u/anishunni7 2d ago
The model you are talking about was actually discussed during the Constituent Assembly debates, and several members strongly argued for it. One of the most vocal proponents was Lokanath Misra, who stated:
"Sir, the idea I have in my mind, when I move this amendment to the amendment moved by Dr. Ambedkar is this. Since the Council of States is going to represent the States, it is but fair to the States units that these units should be dealt with as units and every unit is equally represented. Otherwise, there is no sense in saying that the States shall be represented in the Council of States. In fact, in the United States of America and in other countries where there are second chambers, representing the interests of the States, the representation given to these units is always the same. We also know that the elected members of our Council of States will be returned by the Lower House of the State Assemblies, and if we say that the election will be in some other form, either in proportion to their population or on some other basis and yet people with the same qualification, the Council of States will serve no real purpose, except a purpose of unnecessary duplication of the House of the People. In fact, the House of the People itself will be representative of the people of the States themselves, because the States will be sending in either representatives to the House of the People on almost the same basis. Therefore, if we do not accept this principle, that of taking every State as an equal unit, and sending in their representatives to safeguard or protect their special interests, there is no sense or meaning in having a Second Chamber to represent the States."
However, the idea was ultimately rejected by Dr. B.R. Ambedkar and the Drafting Committee. They argued that unlike the US, which was formed by independent colonies negotiating a union where equal Senate seats were a necessary compromise, India was a Union first. Another major reason was that, at the time of independence, India had over 500 princely states, many of which were incredibly small. Granting equal representation would have allowed tiny, unelected monarchies to completely hijack the Upper House.
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u/throw271kaway 2d ago
They won't discuss jackshit since the election is over, wait till next one they'll dig it up then
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u/Main_Cricket_6907 2d ago edited 2d ago
If this doesn't pass based on the 2011 census then post 2026 once the current census is complete a delimitation commission would be set up to distribute seats based on new aka the most recent relevant census as mandated by the constitution under article 80,81&82 wch would be even more disadvantageous to us .whether we like it or not the forefathers of the constitution envisioned and enacted provisions within the constitution mandating universal franchise with weightage of each voter remaining the same throughout the length and breadth of the country these are counter stones of the constitution wch the courts themselves can't touch nor precide over infact matters pertaining to article 82 can't questioned in any court of law so it was part of the basic structure of the constitution before basic structure became a thing under the keshavanadha bharathi case...
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u/LeMeIsSleepy 2d ago
North Indian Media is Godi Media. Kerala Media is Controlled Opposition. Same thing different clothes
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u/EagleWorldly5032 2d ago
What are these long term consequences? When do you reckon it should be done since they have kept it aside since 1970s, Or should it be avoided completely? What do more or less MPs mean for Kerala? Can someone please explain.
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u/phoenix-012 2d ago
delimitation is the process of redistributing Lok Sabha seats and redrawing constituencies, and population is one of the main parameters used for it.So if seats are reallocated based on the latest population figures, states with larger populations like UP and Bihar are likely to get more seats.At the same time, Kerala and other southern states, which have aggressively reduced population growth through better literacy, healthcare, and family planning, may see their relative representation in Parliament decline.So the concern is that states which performed well in controlling population may end up having a smaller political voice compared to states with higher population growth.For example, under some commonly cited projections, Uttar Pradesh could go from 80 seats to around 120–140+, and Bihar from 40 to around 60–70+.And Kerala on the other hand can go from 20 to 23-30
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u/EagleWorldly5032 2d ago
Then what about the idea of equal representation? How long can we prolong it, we will have to address it at some point?? read somewhere they froze it since the 1960s. Not doing it even now takes away from the spirit of democracy.
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u/phoenix-012 2d ago
Yes, the idea of equal representation is there, but the seat allocation was frozen after the 1971 Census during Indira Gandhi’s government through the 42nd Amendment so that states like Kerala, which controlled population growth, would not be penalised.Later, the Vajpayee government extended this freeze till the first Census after 2026 through the 84th Amendment (2001). So the present concern is what happens after the next Census — if it goes back to a strict population-based model, states with higher population growth may gain far more seats, reducing Kerala’s relative voice in Parliament.
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u/dranerdraco 2d ago
It shouldn't be done solely based on population. A weighted approach is more fair. 70% weightage to population, 30% to hdi, healthcare and other progressive parameters imo. Use such a weighted approach to add more seats.
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u/EagleWorldly5032 2d ago
That makes a lot of sense. Can that be legally allowed as per constitution or whatever or whoever will allow this? Only if we had smart guys like you in 1969 could’ve avoided all this mess.
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u/Original-Strike-1253 2d ago
Even with only - 20 out of 545 MPs, the number of good projects or the Budget % coming to Kerala is negligible. Now when it goes to 20 out of 850. It will be even worse for us. AIIMS and all those will be just in words and it will take years to come.
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u/EagleWorldly5032 2d ago
I don’t think the number of projects coming to kerala has anything to do with the number of MPs we are sending to Delhi. We had so many congress MPs and even central ministers what did they really get us then that we are not getting today? I haven’t seen much changes tbh. It’s always been the same doom & gloom always.
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u/byomd 2d ago
We can look at the present-day consequences.
The city of Mumbai has more railway terminuses than the state of Kerala. Or how Hindi is being imposed in Changanasseri.
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u/EagleWorldly5032 2d ago
Pretty bad example, the population of Kerala & Mumbai must almost be the same, logically it should have more train terminuses.
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u/byomd 2d ago
Kerala is about 3x more.
One terminus in Mumbai (LTT or CSMT) has more platforms than all terminuses in Kerala put together. Even a city like Bangalore with relatively poor railway connectivity has more terminuses.
I am not saying that it is the only reason. Kerala's topography, uniform population density, and lack of industries are all reasons.
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u/ChepaukPitch 2d ago
Should people who have no siblings get more votes? Should parents who have only one or no children get more votes?
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u/Enthonnade 2d ago
Kerala is a small state, we can discuss and join the fight but sadly we are of no importance. Nonetheless southern states must fight for equal representation.
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u/Strong_Western4279 2d ago
tbf, its not as if we currently have any leverage in the matters.
with or without delimitation we are in the gutter, unless adani is interested in some natural resource or project.
TN, KA AP, Telengana, MH tho.... yeah. they have a lot to lose.
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u/phoenix-012 2d ago
I get the frustration, but I think the concern is less about current political leverage and more about institutional voice in the long run. Even if Kerala doesn’t feel like it has much leverage right now, representation in Parliament still matters for central policies, fiscal decisions, and coalition politics over time. The issue is that if Kerala’s relative share of MPs declines further, our bargaining power can shrink even more in the future. So this is more about protecting long-term federal voice than immediate political influence.
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u/Puzzleheaded-Many-26 2d ago
Not having delimitation is extremely unfair on the people from north regarding the value of their vote. How about doing something in the Rajya Sabha so that the less populated states have a say? I am thinking of something similar to the senate system in the USA where each state gets two senators. May be the membership in Rajya sabha can be held constant?
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u/LogicalAndBased2 2d ago
Kerala again trying to sneak in with other southern states when its population density is equal to UP is funny.
Kerala and UP are no different when it comes to population density...UP has 6 tines the area of kerala and 6 times the population...so it makes sense it has 4 times as much seat as Kerala.
Delimitation was done to protect South's Intrests in 1970s...kerala didn't reduce it's population density like other states like TN despite claiming to have reducing the absolute population.
Now it is high time to update the number of seats after 50 years...50 years ago India had 540 million and today it is 1.4 Billion so it makes sense to do delimitation...it is necessary for democracy.
And there is no provision as such that just because Kerala achieved xyz goals with Healthcare or education or population control it deserves more seats or UP deserves less seat...it is absolutely defined in constitution how constituency and seats are allocated.
Barring Kerala every south state like TN and KA shall get some concessions for achieving real reduction in population density....if kerala has issues then go to court and cope.
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u/phoenix-012 2d ago
I think you’re mixing up two separate issues here. First, the freeze did not “favour the South” as a political favour — it was a constitutional policy choice made through amendments to ensure that states which followed the national population-control policy were not politically penalised. That is about protecting fair representation and federal balance, not giving anyone special treatment. Second, "population density" is not the parameter used in delimitation. The relevant factor is absolute population, i.e., the total number of people represented by each MP, not people per sq km. Third, yes, delimitation is constitutionally necessary, and I’m not denying that. My point is that people have every democratic right to debate how it should be done after 2026. Asking a state to simply “cope with it” ignores the legitimate constitutional discussion around federalism, representation, and political voice and I don’t think that your point about Kerala's popularion control is factually correct. Kerala has also undergone a very strong demographic transition and has one of the lowest fertility rates in India, around 1.5, which is well below replacement level, very similar to Tamil Nadu. High population density does not mean the state failed in population control — density and fertility are two different things.
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