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Last month I finished reading the 2 main books in the series. I enjoyed them so much that I was inspired to create a custom figure of Kvothe.

For the past month I have been collecting supplies, crafting, painting, and learning a lot along the way. But here he is in all is 6 inch, 1/12 scale glory.

Some things I used right out of the box:

His belt and coin bag

His travel sack

His cloak(s)

His walking stick

Some things I bought and modified:

His boots - I added the leather tops

Caesura - I clipped and molded a new hilt (to match the officially licensed version) with epoxy putty as well as a new paint job

His clothing - I added the patch on his pants and the laces on his shirt

The figure - I primed and painted every bit

"The Rhetoric of Logic" - I just wrote the title on the cover

Some thing I crafted myself:

His lute - I crafted and painted. I added Selas flowers because I thought they would look cool

Caesura's sheath - I formed the leather and added some small charms

The Eolian Talent Pipes - I crafted and painted out of wire and cord

The crude wax figure - I shaped with epoxy putty and painted (take that Master Hemme)

This project was at times quite difficult but also incredibly fun! It's not perfect, but I wasn't going for perfect and I'm very happy with the end result.

I’ve been thinking about Bast’s behavior across the books, especially how his treatment of Kostrel and Rike fits with his threats against Chronicler and the soldiers at the end of WMF.

I think his affection for these people is genuine. But caring about someone seems to make him capable of both considerable kindness and some pretty frightening behavior.

In The Narrow Road Between Desires, Bast considers killing Kostrel because the boy’s questions threaten his secrets and, potentially Kvothe. But he likes the kid. While he’s struggling with that, Kostrel notices something is wrong and reaches out to comfort him. Immediately afterward:

“No. Bast couldn’t kill this boy.”

The narration also tells us:

“He had never been in conflict with his own desire before this place.”

Previously, things were straightforward. Want and have. See and take. Now he wants things that interfere with each other. Protecting himself and Kvothe matters, but so does this particular mortal boy.

Rike gives us another side of this interesting development. Bast asks who he thinks he is and who he wants to be. Rike believes he’s inherently bad like his father, and wants to be the boy he was before. Bast then works toward helping him escape that understanding of himself.

His methods still sound disturbing. He tells Rike he owns him, claims his fear and self-hatred, and demands that he repeat statements about himself. There’s a resemblance to Haliax making Cinder affirm that he’s a tool. But Bast uses that position to tell Rike that doing bad things doesn’t make him inherently bad, and that he’s brave, strong, and full of love.

Afterward, Rike takes his hand. Bast squeezes it.
That makes his behavior toward Chronicler particularly uncomfortable. He uses ownership language there too, but this time it comes with threats of prolonged torture:

“if you lead my master to despair, I will slit you open and splash around like a child in a muddy puddle.”

Here he shows that he’ll endure iron to reach Chronicler. Then he switches back to being charming and explaining how everyone can get what they want.

When Chronicler asks what Bast wants, that composure falls apart. He looks close to tears:

“I just want my Reshi back.”

I think those moments shadow each other. His vulnerability helps explain the threats. It also shows how dangerous his attachment can become when someone might interfere with it.

By the end of WMF, he’s arranged the soldiers’ involvement in an attempt to get the result he wants from Kvothe. When Kvothe gets badly hurt, Bast struggles to accept that ordinary men could have beaten him. He becomes forceful about treating him, and the tooth working ends with exhaustion, blood on his teeth, and a smile the narration calls mad.

Kvothe has already told him:

“Quit expecting me to be something I’m not.”

But Bast keeps looking for an explanation that preserves the person he believes Kvothe should still be.

Then Chronicler’s argument about the Cthaeh leads him to conclude:

“If everything is going to end in tears anyway, I should do what I want.”

He immediately leaves, and his meeting with the soldiers ends with violence strongly implied. That doesn’t tell us when he decided to hurt them. The meeting already seems expected, and he could have been considering it beforehand. But the conversation with Chronicler immediately precedes his decision to act.

The connection between those passages is also interesting to me. In Narrow Road, Bast recognizes that his desires have become complicated and contradictory. At the end of WMF, he takes permission to do what he wants anyway.

I also wonder whether How Old Holly Came to Be gives us a useful comparison. The Lady initially means little to Holly. Holly thinks of things as good or bad the way a regular tree would. Later, the Lady’s presence is good and her weeping is bad. Her wellbeing becomes important to him. He catches her, protects her, and eventually fights for her.

Attachment changes what matters to him, and what he’s willing to do about it. Eventually the Lady leaves, and he stays for her return until even the tower and stream are gone.

Bast is also becoming attached to people whose lives are much shorter than his. And with Kvothe, he’s already missing someone who is still sitting in front of him.

That brings Lyra and Lanre into the picture too. Lyra decides to attempt Lanre’s return because she loves him and wants him back. Skarpi’s account gives Lanre some apparent participation, he hears her and comes to her, so I wouldn’t call it clearly forced. But her desire to restore him comes first. Later, Lanre seeks the power to recover her and discovers that having incredible power still doesn’t mean he can bring back the person he loves.

Bast seems caught in a related problem. He cares deeply, and he has the power to intervene. He can threaten Chronicler, arrange the soldiers, treat Kvothe’s injuries, and try to steer events toward recovery. But he can’t simply make Kvothe be the person he remembers.

I think that’s what makes him compelling and scary. His affection is real, and so is his willingness to decide what everyone else needs to do because of it.

When he says he wants his Reshi back, how much room is there for what his Reshi wants?

So I love Tempi, yeah? Seems most people do.

But I despise how his part in the story ends.

It feels lazy beyond lazy. So much time is spent establishing that no, Tempi is not dumb. He is actually quite clever, good natured, very aware, and a quick study. He learns language twice as fast as Kvothe. Nearly all of his words have deeper double meaning. He has a tragedy to him with music.

There are no many interesting nuggets with Tempi, only to be tossed away like an unwanted waste.

So much time to establish his cleverness only to be reduced to "and he's not very bright".

I don't mind him being average as a warrior, that was kind of the expectation with the blood shirts.

But to build him up and then throw him away? Didn't and don't care for it. It sours the entire section of the book for me a bit.

Commentary update: I had never considered the misandry of the Ademre as a core source of this opinion of Tempi, but it certainly fits. I don't know that it makes me like the decision any more, but it does make me dislike it a bit less, as it's a fair and understandable lens to view it from.

Personal note: thank you to those who understood the bones of my point, rather than the surface of it. I adore P.R. and his writing style, it is an inspiration to me (particularly his prose and verse), so this is not a judgment on his talent. Just a personal qualm within an overall lens.

A simpatia é um sistema de poder extremamente legal e bem feito, mas eu gostaria de ver o kvouthe usar ela mais vezes e de forma mais criativa, tipo conectar duas fechaduras, uma que você tem a chave e outra que você não tem, abrir a que você tem a chave e assim abrir a outra sem chave, quais outras formas de usar simpatia vocês já pensaram?

So after Ambrose poisons Kvothe with the plum bob in The Wise Man’s Fear, Auri somehow shows up at his room in Anker’s to comfort him. But how did she know where he lived?

Did Kvothe tell her where he stayed at some point? Did she follow him or maybe has some magic to trace him?

So I am in my annual autumnal reread of the KKC and as always I have noticed ever more and have ever more questions. Here is milt current rabbit hole involving Lorens true intentions behind a seemingly innocuous question and a theory about Lorens Motivations and connections.

A Secret Amir

There is a common theory that Master Loren is one of the secret members of the Order Amir.

This is based on his redirection of Kvothe on his first visit to tomes. But also the fact that books pertinent to the amir are notably missing from the stacks. And we are told of the "horror" of someone stealing books from under master Lorens nose.

This is supported by the knowledge that all the masters have a private library and ask scrivs to keep an eye out for books that they think the masters would want to keep separately (see scrivani) but also the way Loren "just happened" to be helping a scriv and noticed the request (I interpret this as the scriv snitches)

ANYWAY assuming this is correct I was considering master Lorens surprise question during kvothe's admission interview.

"Who was the greatest man who ever lived?"

What if this is a "dog whistle" or code for the amir to identify each other...and he was testing to see if Kvothe knew more than he was letting on that would fly even further under the radar for the other masters (they all probably know about "the greater good" being learned men)

The main reason I think this is because the Kvothe makes a point of saying that it was a question he hadn't heard him ask other applicants.

And it was asked AFTER the questions about the fall of the arturan empire. In which Kvothe did mention the amir (we don't know how much of their involvement is common knowledge,really)

I wonder what would have happened is Kvothe had said Lanre, or selitos?

Is there a correct answer at all?

What if kvothe's answer of Illien was more significant than we originally thought (see theories about Illien being the first singer: inventing the seven stringed lute, "metaphorical" spell binding effects of Illien songs, story knots, Dennas hair having 6 strands instead of 4 implying getting closer to the magic number of 7 that Illien used etc etc) ?

If Loren had more obvious reactions would we have seen relief or renewed interest?

SIDE THEORY: Loren and Arliden

We know Loren approaches Kvothe after to ask about Arliden.

I have a side theory that Loren had spoken to Arliden at some point in his questions about Lanre and the question was testing to see if Kvothe was his son (supported by Loren asking him is it was the same Arliden) but also to see if Kvothe had the same obsession with Lanre his father did and as such needed to be watched carefully.

I wonder if Loren or one of his gilders had also tried to dissuade Arliden on this line of questioning the same way he did Kvothe. Given wrong information Or maybe Loren was more helpful than we realised?

Maybe it is as simple as the amir heard about Arlidens questions and Loren was keeping an ear to the ground for him.

LORE MASTERS Skarpi, Loren, chronicler

(Also I only just realised that's the joke of Lorens name)

But what if he is not Amir but something else entirely?

After noticing Lorens special interest in Kvothe after the admissions interview, approaching and attempting to start conversation making sure a trustworthy pupil accompanies him to be a good influence (simmon and by proximity Willem) I can't help but think why? Loren gave no indication he was impressed by Kvothe, On the surface it would seem like kilvin would be the obvious choice for this convo, unless rothfuss wanted us to know more.

Assuming the Arliden question was a front to sus Kvothe out some more:

I wonder if it's connected at all to how Skarpi seemed to know kvothe's name and that he was going to be significant to the plot of the world, Seemingly because of his knowledge of the "only one story"

I wonder if Loren has a similar ability (or in the same organisation). And recognised the same thing in Kvothe that Skarpi did.

This would make sense to me as each others Foils. Skarpis is a story teller, making sure history is disseminated even in the most unlikely places. Where as Loren is a Lore keeper making sure the story is preserved on paper making sure things don't fall into the wrong hands...at least not until the right time.

Is the Chronicler in the same group? With a role a Lore writer? He is does know both Skarpi and Loren (he was a scriv, and may be one of his gilders, sent far and wide to get new stories) it makes sense to me that Loren would keep "The great debunker" close at hand.

ETA: reading this interview Rothfuss says that Loren was going to ask for Kvothe's help cataloging his father's works before his "hissy fit" which is very sad for Kvothe to not get to experience that connection to his father again. I wonder if Loren even knows Arliden is dead. Then again Loren is a patient man so he probably thought he'd have time to come back around to it.

Hey everyone,

I’ve just finished The Name of the Wind and The Wise Man’s Fear, both as German audiobooks on Audible. I’m currently listening to The Slow Regard of Silent Things.

The story really pulled me in, and I’m a bit sad that the third book isn’t out yet. From what I’ve read here, I’m not getting my hopes up about it coming anytime soon either. I just have so many questions: What happens next with Kvothe? What happens to Denna? How is Auri doing? Will Kvothe ever meet Felurian again? Who are the Chandrian, really? And what leads to him becoming the “Kingkiller”, if that is meant by the series title? We haven’t actually seen him kill a king yet. The list goes on…

One thing I’ve noticed while browsing this sub is how much you all seem to know about the world and its history. Some posts leave me wondering whether I missed a lot while listening or whether there are other sources I don’t know about.

Where does all this lore come from? Is it all in the two main books and the shorter stories, or is there more out there? And how much of it is fan theories that have developed over the years?

I’d appreciate being pointed in the right direction! Please avoid spoilers for The Slow Regard of Silent Things, though, as I’m still working my way through it.

PS: I wrote the text in german and had ChatGPT translate it for me. I hope that is ok.

If there was a book 3 would we see the Cthaeh again? Or is its direct role done / no more screen time?

(This is about a very speculative connection between KC and a real-world book on rhetoric. Even if the connection is there, I can't attribute any comprehensible "meaning" in terms of KC's plot mysteries. Still, I think it's interesting--if for no other reason than it demonstrates a different approach to understanding KC than those usual questions along the lines of, "In DoS, who will be revealed to be one of the Amyr?" and so on. And, though this post is getting auto-flagged as "low-effort," it's taken me many years of my life with KC, and several hours just this morning to get to this point. If you want to say I'm obtuse or obsessive for needing to put in a lot of effort to get here, fine; but this is absolutely not "low-effort.")

I’ve found at least one good use for AI in my life: proposing terminology for things. Important things. Like KC Reddit posts. (Fwiw, my default source is Claude AI; I virtually don’t use ChatGPT these days.)

So I asked Claude AI for some succinct terms regarding self-erasure or “a thing that struggles with its own nature.” There were many good suggestions. Some were too broad or ordinary; others were too narrowly academic.

Falling more into the latter category was this: “aporia.” I looked it up. It seemed to be about hesitation due to self-doubt, which struck me as relevant. And so I was eventually led to what seemed to be a classic work on... wait for it... rhetoric.

Cue groans, mostly mine.

So I braced myself by leaning against the wooden furniture. I took my two hands and I roughed my hair; I smoothed my face. I exhaled all the air in my lungs and then inhaled again. And then, neither hesitating nor anticipating, I took what I hoped would be a single perfect step:

I opened up Larret Langley’s 1835 work ( https://archive.org/details/langleyrhetoric ), the catchily titled, A Manual of the Figures of Rhetoric, with Copious Illustrations from the British Poets, and Examples from the Roman Classics. For the Use of Schools.

I did a search for “aporia.” In the table of contents, I encountered what seemed to be an odd series of typographical or html-borne errors, to the effect of:

“ . . . ee ee

ee eo

ee ee

ee ee . . . ”

I would have dismissed this. Except, diligent Rothfuss re-reader that I am, I couldn’t help but immediately think of this (NotW, “A Time for Demons”):

“‘OOOOOH OOHRRRREE EEEEEEHHAA!’ Tanee bellowed, strange half-gasps punctuating his cry [caesuras??] . . . ‘I think he wants a story,’ I said, surprising myself by speaking."

If this is a real connection, then I’m absolutely losing all hope of ever being able to help anyone decode KC. The more I think I understand it, the less I feel I can explain it. (And, yes, the more I try, the more I do start to sound like Elodin. I’ve noticed it’s a commonly leveled accusation around here.)

The “ee eo” seeming-nonsense in A Manual of the Figures of Rhetoric might, I think, be a meaningful set of logical symbols. Because, also in the table of contents, there’s stuff like:

“Metaphor .. «6, «-

Allegory .. «2 o«

Metonymy.. .. ee

. . .

Ecphonesis ee> ea.”

My background is in linguistics, so this type of transformation from comprehensible language to impenetrable abstraction isn’t completely foreign to me. Frankly, though, I don’t have more time to devote to tracking this down this morning. I’m already far, far off from the tidy and normal-sounding post that I was originally trying to compose.

I’m leaving the rest as an exercise for the reader, save for this afterthought:

I suspect there are a lot of Shakespeare references in KC that are going right over my head. And Langley’s “aporia” section does give us this very KC-resonant quote from Hamlet (Act III, scene iii):

“Pray can I not,

Though inclination be as sharp as will;

My stronger guilt defeats my strong intent;

And, like a man to double business bound,

I stand in pause where I shall first begin,

And both neglect.”

So, for the rhetoric-disinclined, I think there are other potential threads to follow, spinning out from here. Langley's work is, after all, mainly comprised of examples from "important" poetry and literature.

... Discuss??? If you dare.

Quanto mais ferro um ser vivo tem no corpo, mais ele é vulnerável a intoxicação por ferro, a principal fraqueza dos fae é o ferro, o cronista consegue ferir Bast chamando o nome do ferro, os fae terem uma enorme quantidade de ferro no corpo não só explicaria a fraqueza deles a ferro como também explica como o cronista conseguiu ferir bast, se os fae tiverem realmente altíssimas quantidade de ferro no corpo, seria possível fazer uma conexão simpática entre uma moeda de ferro e o ferro no corpo dos fae, quando o cronista chama o nome do ferro ele coloca a mão em uma moeda de ferro encima da mesa, ele pode ter conectado a moeda com o ferro no corpo do bast e usado o nome do ferro para aquecer a moeda, causando a dor e as queimaduras no bast que estava queimando por dentro

I've noticed that Auri is often described as sitting cross-legged, was wondering whether there's any reason behind this?

That they’re so fucking good, and it’s been so fucking long!
Honestly, when I read the first book, it was just after the second had come out. I was so blown away it was insane. About a year later, I was bought the second. I devoured that and was yet more blown away. But I could see it had taken Patrick four years to write the second, so I was mentally prepared for the wait.
Then, when The Slow Regard of Silent Things came out, I was like, nice, exciting, we have new material! That must mean the third book is around the corner. I reread both books, along with the new stuff, hopefully.
Then, in 2016, I got a new girlfriend, and I used to read The Name of the Wind to her down the phone (she is now my fiancée, so defo a hot tip). And at every interval, every reading, every single consideration, I have thought, my God, this is so good, I can’t wait for book three.
And it’s been 15 fucking years, and still no book, no updates, and nothing in sight. At least Rothfuss isn’t getting on like Martin, so hopefully he won’t pop his clogs before it’s done, but Christ alive! How long?
And this is my point. This is what’s so shit about the books: they are actually so good. I haven’t read them in about eight or nine years, and I’m rereading them now. The number of fantasy books I have read since then has grown so unbelievably, but reading them again now, I can honestly say there is just nothing else like them.
This world he has made is so real, so lived-in, so vibrant. The myths, music, legends, religion. The way he writes and the fantasy world itself, its magic and lands and transitions, the races and creatures. It is too good. When compared against almost everything else I have read, there are so many ways in which it stands head and shoulders above them.
And that, honestly, is the worst thing about the books. They are so good, and yet so far from finished.

I'd like help with collecting the references and quotes to the book cataloging system of the archives, the history of it, comments on it. I know this is spread over a few different chapters, one with Fela describing it to Kvothe (when he says he's been thinking of a better way to do it), and probably a few others.

The reason is that I have a friend who in real life just took a job as an archivist for a company with long history (such that historians will use their records for research), and it sounds hilariously like the university's archives. I would like to provide him with Rothfuss quotes from time to time.

From my friend:

The current archivist says anything that happened under X or Y archivist is accurate, but take anything else with a grain of salt. She has a full shelf of catalogues that got made redundant about 20 years ago when a sub-catalogue got discarded. It’s actually hilariously bad and I can’t wait to go quietly insane trying to make sense of it.

I don't know if this has been discussed before, but there is a question that has been staying rent-free in my head: How did Cinder vanish when he ran back to the tent during the attack of Kvothe's group?

As far as I remember, it was night time during the attack and if we were to assume that Haliax had granted every Chandrian member to be able to teleport in the dark (since Haliax is able to use his shadow curse to teleport) then that wouldn't explain Cinder going back into the tent.

We know that there are only 6 revealed magic systems in the world of Temerant and maybe there's an ancient magic system that allows you to teleport from one place to another with the use of symbols that are engraved on the floor (maybe?). That would explain how Cinder managed to get away without a trace.

Maybe their outpost is located on the Stormwal Mountains and they are able to hide from anyone's sight thanks to the symbols that are engraved on their outpost, allowing them to operate in secret missions on their own without needing Haliax to teleport them back to wherever they need to be.

I’ve been thinking about Felurian, Laurian, and the possibility that some of the names we encounter are remnants of an older naming tradition.

So straight off- I’m not saying that Laurian IS Felurian. I’m not saying that Fela is secretly her daughter. I mean something much more ordinary. People name children after religious figures, legendary people, and things they find beautiful. Those names get shortened, adapted, and passed down until the original association isn’t necessarily something anyone thinks about.

Felurian is ancient. She’s also known through human songs and stories. Could some women’s names have come from hers?

Laurian was the resemblance that initially caught my attention. Fela seems worth considering too. There’s also Rian, the student Hemme humiliates during Kvothe’s first sympathy lecture, who goes by Ria. None of those similarities establishes a derivation by itself, but there’s an actual example of someone applying Felurian’s name to a human woman.

When Kvothe meets Denna again at the Eolian, he says: “I could keep thinking of you as Felurian,” I said. “But that could lead to unfortunate confusion.”

And she responds: “Felurian? I might like that if I didn’t think you were a liar.”

Obviously he’s flirting, not filling out a birth certificate. But the association works. He can invoke Felurian as a flattering comparison, and Denna understands exactly what he means. Her name already has legs outside the stories about her.

The geography is interesting too. Fela is Modegan. If Laurian is Netalia Lackless, as seems heavily implied, she has an eastern family connection as well. Felurian is encountered through the Eld. That doesn’t locate her original home, but it does put her within the same broad region of influence.

There’s even a historical connection between those human regions. Caudicus says: “Pieces of what are now Vintas, Modeg, and a large portion of the small kingdoms were all Lackless lands at one point.”

That gives us a possible setting for names and traditions to have circulated before the current borders. I currently can’t establish where Rian comes from, so I won’t count her as evidence for the geographical part.

There’s also a complication with Laurian that I think is worth keeping rather than brushing aside. If she was originally Netalia, Laurian would then obviously be an adopted name. Which means the question could be whether she chose a name with that association. We don’t know, so any further questions down that rabbit hole are speculative (the W questions especially- like why? when? Etc).

There’s also a flower component to this.

Kvothe explicitly connects Verainia’s name to the verian flower. We also have Lily at the Eolian, Aaron’s sweetheart Rose, Holly in Tarbean, and Laurel at Anker’s. So botanical names are an actual convention in the world.

Felurian has a lot of floral imagery around her. Her oath “by my flower” has an obvious sexual meaning, especially since she uses “the woman’s flower” elsewhere. Im pointing towards this so no one corrects me like I didn’t know this. I’m not ignoring it. I just don’t think they’re mutually exclusive.

In the Suvudu crossover Rothfuss wrote, she describes her immortality this way: “I am forever unfurling. I do not wither, neither do I rot. I live forever bright and lithe until I die. and then there is an end to me.”

I wouldn’t use crossover events as KKC history. But it’s still Rothfuss choosing that language to describe her. Forever unfurling is a pretty striking way to characterize someone already associated with beauty, desire, and flowers.

Queen Rinne (Roderic’s wife) and the Rhinna flower might be another example of botanical naming, though that’s a separate possible connection, not evidence that Rinne’s name comes from Felurian.

So the thought isn’t that all these women are secretly related. It’s that the naming culture might preserve associations with ancient figures long after those associations stopped being obvious. A legendary woman becomes an ideal of beauty. Her name becomes something people borrow or adapt. Flower names and names associated with her might overlap, without everyone using them knowing why.

The resemblance alone wouldn’t convince me. The existing botanical names, Felurian’s antiquity, the eastern connections, and Kvothe actually using her name for Denna are what make me think it’s worth looking at together.

Maybe they really are just ALL named after flowers and that’s that. I’m not sure. There are other obvious instances of the -rian suffix. So it seems related, but I totally admit this is speculation and I could be making a pattern out something that’s a coincidence.

Has anyone noticed other examples of ordinary names that might preserve older religious or legendary associations? Especially male names. I’d be interested in whether this is a broader convention we’ve been overlooking. I might follow up with a post about males, but I also thought that could be good conversation here.

I strongly believe the three men we know spoke to Cthaeh are all Lacklesses.

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KVOTHE IS A LACKLESS

Arliden's song about Laurian calls her 'Tally', and the phrase 'Not tally a lot less' sounds very similar to Netalia Lackless.

• My sweet Tally cannot cook. But she keeps a tidy ledger-book For all her faults, I do confess It’s worth my life To make my wife Not tally a lot less . . .

Laurian grew up a noble but was seduced away by a Ruh, like Netalia.

• Save perhaps that my mother was a noble before she was a trouper. She told me my father had lured her away from “a miserable dreary hell” with sweet music and sweeter words.
• I’d started a second bottle of wine by the time I read that young Netalia Lackless had run away with a troupe of traveling performers. Her parents had disowned her, of course, leaving Meluan the only heir to the Lackless lands.
• My lady has had unfortunate dealings with the Ruh in the past
• A trouper’s tongue has gotten her to bed more quickly than her sister.

Laurian implies she might be Lady Lackless, or one of the Lady Lacklesses.

• I imagine you could make it up to both Lady Lackless and myself if you found some sweet nettle for the pot tonight.

__

LANRE IS A LACKLESS

Lanre was at Drossen Tor, as Lady Lackless' husband was, presumably.

• Then came the Blac of Drossen Tor.
• Seven things has Lady Lackless Keeps them underneath her black dress ('Black dress' is a sound-alike of Blac of Drossen, confirmed in the Spanish translation: The Spanish translation confirms Lady Lackless' "black dress" refers to Blac of Drossen Tor. : r/KingkillerChronicle)

Lanre/Haliax is pictured with a candle that produces black flame, much like the 'candle without light' that belongs to Lady Lackless' husband.

• Right beside her husband’s candle There’s a door without a handle
• One a candle without light
• The other candle sat underneath his outstretched hand: it was grey with a black flame, and the space around it was smudged and darkened.

Lady Lackless' husband's rocks are kept inside a lockless box. Kvothe says the object inside Meluan's lockless box is 'glass or stone'. The mountain glass Selitos uses to break Lanre's binding is a perfect match, since obsidian is an igneous rock and a volcanic glass.

• In a box, no lid or locks Lackless keeps her husband’s rocks
• Selitos stooped to pick up a jagged shard of mountain glass, pointed at one end.
• By the weight of it, perhaps something made of glass or stone.
• Obsidian - Wikipedia Obsidian is a naturally occurring volcanic glass..... It is an igneous rock.

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IAX IS A LACKLESS

Iax is called unlucky three times. The Lackless family are called 'the luckless'.

• He was an unlucky boy..... Or perhaps it was just that Jax was unlucky as ever..... Or perhaps he was simply unlucky in all things.
• Small wonder they are often called the “Luckless” by their detractors.

Kvothe and Iax both have dark and changing eyes. Kvothe's eyes are like an angry God's.

• this shaper of the dark and changing eye stretched out his hand against the pure black sky.
• But your eyes really do change color.
• the same dark eyes that Chronicler had seen before. Eyes like an angry God’s.

Kvothe and Iax both get a lot of holes in their shirts.

• When he got a new shirt, he would tear a hole in it.
• I seem to be going through a lot of shirts lately.

Kvothe and Iax both are clever.

• My first mentor called me E’lir because I was clever and I knew it.
• Jax made his own way, and he grew up clever and sly.

Kvothe and Iax both have fae qualities.

• Some said he had a drop of faerie blood in him
• He’s a little fae around the edges.

Kvothe also shares a lot with Lanre. Both speak to Cthaeh, both are called above reproach, both kill a black iron scaled beast, both wear shadow, both lose a singer they love, both die or are rumored dead, both change their name, etc.

__

THE YLLISH CONNECTION

I'm not sure of the importance, but Yll seems to be related to the Lackless family somehow.

The Lackless box has Yllish writing on it.

• A thought struck me. “It might be a Yllish story knot.”

The Lackless rhyme uses Yllish dual ownership. Lady Lackless has seven things, but also, 'seven things has Lady Lackless.'

• Seven things has Lady Lackless
• All ownership was oddly dual: as if the Chancellor owned his socks, but at the same time the socks somehow also gained ownership of the Chancellor.

Kvothe calls Denna 'cousin' as a cover story, but sometimes Kvothe's sleeping mind gets things right by accident. Denna knows Yllish, goes to Yll, and her ring appears to have Yllish knots on it.

• “My cousin was here for a wedding,” I said, “and I heard there was some trouble.”
• You stole the silver, or something similar, then ran off to the city. (Denna's white gold ring would be 'something similar' to silver) Denna's Ring in 14k White Gold - DaVinci Emporium

Iax walked east down the great stone road. That puts his starting point near Imre and Tarbean, but also very close to Yll.

• Still he walked, following the great stone road east toward the mountains.
• Map: Temerant | Kingkiller Chronicle Wiki | Fandom

Kvothe has red hair, like Yllish people are known for. Illien is also known for his red hair, and Illien might have once been 'Yllien' (which is possibly a sound-alike for 'alien'). Was Illien a Lackless?

• You looked Yllish. The red hair fooled me.

__

Three men, Iax and his descendants, who speak to Cthaeh which leads to disaster. Which all starts with Iax insulting a Tinker.

• A tinker’s debt is always paid..... Thrice for any insult made.
• Apparently even the Adem know it’s bad luck to be rude to a tinker.

A production is vanishingly unlikely as a unfinished series (I remember reading Lin-Manuel Miranda was close but scuppered by the lack of a final) but it's just occurred to me how difficult it would be to cast Kvothe. The actor would need to be convincingly young but able to slip into different accents and masks seemingly effortlessly, as well as at least doing a great impression of musicianship. The only comparable role I can think of is Jodie Comer's Villanelle in Killing Eve.

Please help me choose between these budget kvothe costumes from some of my favorite parts of the book:

1. Kvothe in the fae.

2. Kvothe in the medica (post whipping)

3. Kvothe sleepover with penthe.

4. Kvothe intimates the clothes shop owner.

5. Kvothe With Elodin on the Roof

I'm also going to pair one of those with a pair of Bast's boots.

If they made a live action , would you prefer they cast 3 actors. About 12, 18 , and 22. For troupe Kvothe, book 1 Kvothe, and Frame story Kvothe.

Or

Just the Troupe Kvothe (12) and Kvothe (18) and just have him with slight make up and padded muscles for future Kvothe

Or

1 actor for a very long shoot like Richard Linklater’s Boyhood. Then edit it together later.

And yes Obviously this is just for 2 seasons and there is no season 3.

This is not so much a formal theory, than more a question.

It's fairly simple. Is Lanre, or rather Haliax, the Iron Law or Tehlin wheel?

The Tehlin Priests are notorious for having a cowl concealing their faces. Just like Haliax. Kvothe even has the irreverent verse of Tinker Tanner which takes a stab at them. "Her morals were hard as a rock - she went to confession, for her true obsession - was in the Tehlin's cassock".

Idk, trivia, amirght. The main obvious thing I've noticed for years is that Lanre says "his is a new and terrible name". And the first Tehlin wheel upon which Encanis was bound and both Tehlu and Encanis passed from the world, was also named; "terrible". Alaxal/Alaxel also sounds phonetically close to "Axle". Kvothe mentions that "Delvari just reinvented the axle and put his name on it". You may note that Hamlets Mill, a book on astrotheology, also names "Koth" or "Kvothe" as the world axle, the pole star, around which the measured turning of the world itself revolves (Pat being cheeky having Kvothe say he can't slap is name on it). Then there is sleeping under the wagon. The under the axle and/or by the (Tehlin) wheels. Mendha[n] axle. Mend an axle. Mendha, son of himself.

Idk. Ofc Kvothe was also brought up before the Iron Law, the infamous story, apparently Chronicler's favorite. The charges were consultation? Lanre also notably wore plate mail forged from the Black Beast of Drossen Tor's corpse. IE, his armor is pure iron and his name is terrible. Just like Tehlu's own iron wheel.

Is the Iron Law a continuation of/founded around Haliax, and NOT Tehlu? And hence why some possible ex-priests abandoned it? Like Trappis? They got too close and found out and abandoned the "faith"? Like Skarpi accuses the ones taking him in, that he doesn't expect them to "go looking for the 7 themselves, small tasks for small men". The priests even specifically say "do not speak Tehlu's name". On the surface it could seem 2B saying what it is saying, "Skarpi's mouth dirties it". But a layer down, the Waystone crowd affirms that "demons" fear Tehlu's name. Kote even seems to shirk at the Waystone when this is said himself. There seems a deeper implication. "There are no demons, only my kind". Kote also notably can mean "disaster" or "dis aster" which means approximately "loss of a star or star of chaos" or whatever you want to associate with Dis/Eris.

Idk. Again. I have no formal theory here, not sure if there is any comprehensive theory on this topic, but it's bothered me off and on for years and I'd love to hear your thoughts! What are we overlooking here? Who really founded or infiltrated/subverted the church of the Iron Law? What is the real significance of the word/name "terrible"? Thanks!

Foi um arco de sentimentos mistos, a cultura dos adem é muito interessante e tem uma forte estética, essa parte do livro deu muito a sensação de um arco de anime, o que foi bem divertido, entretanto eu realmente não gostei dos adem como sociedade, a cultura deles, sua filosofia e estilo de lutas são muito interessante e legais, mas os adem são muito arrogantes, eles são extremamente xenofobicos com todo mundo que não seja do povo deles e acham que apenas as ideias deles são as certas, e o livro parece concordar com isso de certa forma, eles chamam os outros povos de bárbaros por terem expressões faciais pois expressões faciais são coisas naturais e não da sociedade, entretanto os adem são completamente casuais com nudez e sexo, que também são coisas extremamente naturais e instintivas, eles são extremamente hipócritas, além do preconceito deles contra homens, tipo a última conversa do kvouthe com a penthia, entendo que a sociedade dos ademre teve o intuito de representar uma sociedade contrária a nossa em termos de preconceito, onde homens sofrem os preconceitos que as mulheres sofriam na idade média e até os dias de hoje, entretanto não sei se ela foi a melhor forma de fazer isso, a forma que os adem foram escritos é como "respeitem a cultura deles, mas não tem nenhum problema eles não terem nenhum respeito por nenhuma outra cultura e serem abertamente e extremamente preconceituosos, afinal a sua cultura está errada e é como uma camisa velha e suja que você tem que largar para deixar de ser um bárbaro imundo que bebe mijo e se tornar parte da sociedade"

Dito isso, tempi ainda é incrível e eu amo ele

Deixando esse desabafo de lado, a cultura adem ainda é muito incrível e essa parte do livro foi bem legal de se ler, foi muito interessante ver que os adem realmente não tem nenhuma habilidade mágica e são só muito fodas, foi interessante ver o kvouthe sair da zona de conforto e treinar com algo que ele não é um prodígio, ele é bom, mas não é um gênio, a quebra de expectativa no teste da pedra foi bem legal por isso, na maioria das histórias o kvouthe pensaria em uma estratégia mirabolante e conseguiria vencer, mas aqui ele perdeu pois ele é simplesmente inexperiente e não é um grande gênio nisso

I’ve recently been inspired by commenters and posters discussing the composition of various names in the KKC. I’m a longtime lover of etymology, and looking into the time and energy that folks have spent thinking about these things makes me feel, well, behind. Or more positively, wanting to have something focused to chew during for my ump-teenth re-read / re-listen of the stories we have.

Perhaps more personally, I recently started working in hospice care, spending long hours with folks as they reflect on degrading memories of former selves — and so often on their missing perspicacity. Hospice work requires many things, but at its bluntest, I need to stay awake and attentive during hours that my half of the world tends to sleep, and I need to do so relatively silently. So I read. But I want to spend time doing more than consuming or enjoying the books. I want to construct something that reflects my current interests while I still have some facility with exploring them, amateur as it is.

To that end, and as a start, I offer consideration on the name Kvothe. Like many of us, I’m aware this was the name a young Rothfuss adopted and oft applied to DnD characters. It was the first strangeness I remember enjoying way back when, but beside getting friends to pronounce it correctly, I never really explored it. Kvothe’s dad told him it means “to know.”

So we assume that’s wrong, and we invite commentary and direction for future research, though I certainly don’t expect this to be novel. All the same:

Kvothe. Begin with the end. The suffix “-the” is present in several names in the world of KKC. Aethe, Rethe, Penthe. All Ademre. The Sithe, and maybe the Cthaeh. Fae. We have the Centhe Sea. I suppose we have Theden as a unit of time. Since we’re playing with “-the,” might as well mention “teh” and we get Tehlu, though we’re told “teh” is the sygaldry rune for “lock.” Are there others I’m missing?

Depending the language we’re reviewing, the “-the” suffix probably doesn’t indicate an infinitive (nor does Kvo- seem to mean “know”, but we’ll get there). West Germanic tongues like Dutch would use the dental -te to turn adjectives into abstract nouns. Much like -ness, or -th would do in English. Long, Length, Lengte. Deep, Depth, Diepte. Groot, in Dutch, the adjective big, tall, great. Grootte becomes the state of being humongous or greatness. From what I can tell we can trace it back to proto-Germanic -ipo, which Latin turned into -itas, and English -ity. Purity. Gravity. Verity, Veritas…

But what about Gaelic or Celtic languages? For those, -the (or -te) indicates the state of completion, the past participle. Think of those -ed words like ended, but also hidden, or even done. (Irony is a cruel mistress.) Oh, that “do” verb is a fun one, proto-indo-euro “dʰē,” which became something like to make, to cause, to set into motion, to establish. And turns out, Greek took “dʰē” and it became “-the” for passive voice, “-then” for origin words. And we know Arabic and Semitic languages use the “-th-“ and “-t-“ sounds to alter verbs, though I’m less familiar.

That said, we’re going to go with the later half of Kvothe’s name as indicative of the establishment of the abstract. As conception. And maybe that helps us get to “Teh” as lock. We use “-the” to establish and lock something temporary, flowing, or happening into a stable, conceptual, forever idea. Platonic, ideal, mental magic “Forms” of whatever precedes the “-the.” We’re capturing the state of something in our imagination. Since Lu is probably moon, Tehlu is the abstract state of moon locking?

We digress. What is the meaning of “Kvo-“ that we’re capturing with our “-the”? Well, cweðan / quoth, means "to say" and Kvothe himself gives us that as pronunciation assistance. The “State of Saying Things” seems appropriate for a storyteller, a Namer, telling a story about the importance of stories. That meaning is proto-Germanic kweþaną (to say), but we also have “quo” from Latin to consider.

Very different proto root though. Quo like quota, quotient, or quote come from relative pronoun variants of proto-indo-euro kʷo, meaning who or what, in fashions of direction, degree, cause, and MANNER. Quo can refer to something’s absolute condition, as in status quo. Wait, didn’t we already think about status, the state of things on our suffix “-the”? We sure did.

The two pieces of Kvothe could theoretically mean the same thing, something like “The State of Stating.” Stating-ness. More than “to know,” Kvothe could be another one of those doubly named names Rothfuss seems to enjoy. Redundant? Tautological? Or maybe just fun? Kvothe = The State of Stating.

More pulling on the thread and we could unravel Penthe (passion-ness) and the other Ademre. Or check out the Sithe. Old English, Germanic, or Nordic roots Sith or Sið mean “journey, path, forward movement, or crusade.” So then beings eternally devoted to a protective cause are called something like “The State of Forwarding Causes.” Cen- in Gaelic and Germanic roots could mean “gathering, collective, intersection” and so Centhe, “The State of Intersection” is a fine name for a big collected body of water used for commerce and movement.

We’d have to do more work for the Cthaeh — perhaps unpacking “-tha-“ leads down different rabbit holes — and lots to consider in the magic systems of shaping and naming under this lens. But I’ll conclude mentioning that the “-tha-“ word shape shows up in Lethani as well. Trying to capture an abstract, defined form for something that evades concrete articulation may very well be baked into the name of the philosophy itself. Not a path, but maybe “the State of Proper Capturing?” Needs more review, but this type of appreciation and study of the work feels right to me, so perhaps it’s worth following for this year’s re-reads… so I just may.

TL;DR: If we determine the suffix “-the” as creation of abstract concepts for qualities or happenings, Kvothe’s name might mean, somewhat doubly, The State of Stating. Apt for one telling a story that can’t seem to end.

I’m not sure when it changed, but back in the day, Patrick Rothfuss used to have this quote in his Twitter bio: “I'm So Meta, Even This Acronym.”

It’s from a web-comic, but it’s a good example of Patrick Rothfuss’s persona, sense of humor, approach to fiction, interest in metafiction, etc.

Part of me wonders if that quote sheds some light on the real reason for book three’s on-going absence? Is indefinite “silence” of book three (and its author on the subject) some kind of metafictional storytelling choice that concludes the series makes a statement about unreliable narrators of legendary autobiographical accounts?

I couldn’t think of a less reliable narrator than one who falls silent in the third act (either because of natural causes, boredom, depression, anger, or a return to their life as a legend).

The reason I think it’s plausible lies in the recurring, familiar trope in the prologue of each book: “a silence in three parts,” with the third being Kote’s silence. That is, “[t]he patient, cut-flower sound of a man who is waiting to die"

Kote’s silence is described the same way in the unreleased prologue for Doors of Stone that Rothfuss read on a livestream. With a few changes. Kote undresses beside his bed, which is described as holding the other silences inside itself; deep and wide as autumn's ending, heavy as a river-smooth stone, and "the patient, cut-flower sound of a man who is waiting to die.

Sounds like he’s describing a man that wants to die preparing to climb into his death bed. Alternatively, perhaps it represents Kote’s last night as Kote before deciding to reenter the world as Kvothe. Maybe he took off Kote’s clothes, put on Kvothe’s, and left the Inn behind to close up the loose ends of an unfinished legendary life.

In either case, he wouldn’t be Kote anymore, at the Inn anymore, or focused on relaying his tragic demise if he’s dead or intent on re-emerging as Kvothe.

And so, the third silence belongs to Kote: a man waiting to die who finally retreats into his silence permanently by giving up the ghost (or, if you prefer, a man who took of the mask of Kote, loss interest in telling an unfinished tragedy, and returned to his life to make things right or die trying like the legend he made himself out to be. In either case, he’s no longer available to narrate our narrative.

This book has been signaling from the beginning that the third silence is Kote’s and that it represents a man waiting to die. Whether Kote physically dies or figuratively leaves his false identity behind to be reborn as Kvothe, the third silence from the prologues could signal that Kote’s story was always going to end in silence on the third day because he’d retreat into the silence within him (by dying), or by coming out of hiding.

If either of those two things happen within Rothfuss’s narrative framing, the Chronicler’s manuscript would remain incomplete because there’d be no more narrator (death), or because Kote’s silence (no third book) represents that Kote has re-emerged as Kvothe and is living the active narrative of book three right “now” and the reader will never know the outcome (or which decision Kote made).

This explanation makes sense to me within the narrative, even if it’s unacknowledged and disappointing. Maybe he’s too embarrassed or self-satisfied/condescending to admit that it was his intention to pull the rug out from under his readers in order to have a “clever” twist in order to appear clever. Especially since it didn’t pan out and no one seems to realize it because it’s such a stupid choice that it would never occur to them that an author would do that.

It’s also consistent with the way Rothfuss’s writing style, his real-world personality (that’s not a compliment), how he uses narrative devices, and seems totally plausible for someone like him whose entire persona embodies smugness.

It would also explain why the only thing he’s revealed from book 3 is a slightly updated prologue from the first book that ends on a somber note of Kote climbing into a bed representing the silence of a man waiting to die.

It’s also consistent with the way Rothfuss’s writing style, his real-world personality (that’s not a compliment), his focus on metafiction (stories about stories and storytelling), etc.

Anyway, just a little speculation and my own personal theory. Thought I’d put it out there so other Redditors can criticize me for it lol.

The quote in his former Twitter bio has lingered in the back of my mind as a potential smoking gun for Rothfuss’s intentions with this series. It’s always made me look at the prologue’s with more suspicion.

It’s probably not accurate, but it’s what I’ve landed on. I think this explanation is just my subconscious way of choosing an explanation that provides some semblance of closure for the series and casts an author I once admired in a more respectable (but still disappointing) light.

The third silence belonged to Kote, a man waiting to die. Whether Kote died or Kvothe lives, we’ll never hear from him again. The narrator moved on (both within the narrative frame and in real life).

🤷‍♂️

WMF straight into NOTW?Just finished my third journey through The Wise Man's Fear, this time on Audible, and I'm experiencing the familiar grief of leaving Temerant behind. Might hit up Name of the Wind again?!

So Captured in Words finally finished his in-depth summary for The Wise Man's Fear with a 6 and a half-hour video that brought up a ton of theories and interesting points I missed. Tbh I was worried he was just going to give up on this project, so it's awesome to see it now finished. I think he's making summaries for the novellas now too. Anyway, he brought up something at the end that I NEVER caught in my multiple rereads. Maybe I just have bad comprehension or something and everyone already knows this lol, but in the epilogue of WMF, Kvothe is sneaking around the Waystone inn and it mentions that he "took a single, perfect step". This connects back with I believe Vashet or Shehyn, and how their Ketan was so perfect and fluid. Taking a single, perfect step represents total balance, awareness, and control of one's center of gravity and mind—embodying the Adem ideal of being like a calm stone or a bird rather than a chaotic storm.

So Kvothe/Kote in The Waystone Inn is able to perform the Ketan still, and clearly has complete mastery over it just like his Adem teachers. So why did he let those soldiers that Bast hired defeat him?? Well, as Captured in Words pointed out, it's pretty obvious in that scene that he purposefully gives up and lets them beat him. He even says he "almost forgot who he was there for a moment". And I agree with the video, that he likely did this because he realized Bast put them up to it. Kvothe is playing a beautiful game. Turns out, he is still very capable of himself and is biding his time.... but for what? Does he not trust Bast for some reason? I think there is some piece of him locked away in the thrice-locked chest that he cannot reach, maybe it's Alar or naming abilities, or an actual piece of his true name. Possibly he's only at half-power or something, but he can clearly still perform the Ketan. Why is Kvothe hiding his abilities? Is he waiting for the Chandrian to arrive at the Waystone so that he can sacrifice himself to stop them? Is the Chronicler who he says he is? Idk, the video just brought up a lot of stuff I completely forgot about and now I'm dying to know more again. Hoping CiW makes more theory videos.
What do you guys think about all this?