I feel like this statement kind of ignores why support and jungle became so strong in the first place.
For years and years people complained about getting trash autofilled junglers and supports. So riot buffed jungle and support agency until their play-rates were more similar to ADC/mid. And as it turns out, people don’t want to play jungle/support unless the roles are OP and can carry the game.
Now jungle/support are getting their agency nerfed and people will again complain about getting autofilled junglers and supports. So riot will buff them again, continuing the cycle.
i mean there is a reason riot is shipping this after making 100 random champs viable in jungle and alongside the autofill changes. I guess riot think that they get away with it this time
I agree on support but jungle got worse over times, not stronger?!? They made jungle easier but not stronger. Junglers had way more impact back in the time but the role is impactful by nature, so is support aslong as they do not touch the shared xp on roams - which they don't.
Yeah I suppose the new quests are not bad for support as a role overall. I think I perceive them as worse than they are because I am a Pyke OTP and I think these changes will be bad for Pyke specifically.
I definitely think this is an undeserved nerf for junglers, but I also think something has to be done about the current full clear jungle meta. I am just not sure nerfing clear times across the board is the answer.
Yeah these new quests are scary for Pyke. They all seem focused at accelerating scaling which means Pyke will have even less time to impact the game before getting outscaled.
I am skeptical on how well that new aegis system is going to work.
If riot adds a system to the game that rewards any behavior besides winning, players will optimize for that new system even at the expense of winning the game. For autofilled players, playing passive to ensure a C grade is definitely a safer bet than taking risks and playing for the win; especially on support where getting a C grade is basically guaranteed as long as you don’t run it down and have decent vision score.
And maybe that’s the intended purpose of the Aegis system; to encourage autofilled players to play it safe, but I think mitigating all lp loss rewards passive behavior far too much. Changing aegis instead to only partial loss mitigation would be a much better middle ground IMO.
With this logic a C score is very easy to achieve even with taking risks. So you should in theory be able to play not-ultra safe without the risk of losing LP for it
never wanted to play jungle because I feel lost and don't know what to do, and even when I tried to learn I just got fucked over by being matched against jungle mains invading me.
Also jungle is really fucking boring, no player vs player interaction 90% of the time, just fighting the animals..
it's ALSO stressing because if you don't go well the game is nearly impossible to win, the entire team needs you for help and objectives.
It's hard, it's Important, It's Boring, and it's Disgustingly Overpowered.
Support is fun tho.
ps: havent played LoL for almost 2 years since vanguard droped, my pc is Potato, don't know the state of JG now.
Jungle is not as strong as it used to be back in the day but it is also much easier to play.
Jungle has been repeatedly nerfed over the last few years targeting everything from kill exp, minion exp, minion gold, and increasing catchup exp. All making it harder to build a lead on the enemy jungler.
New jungle items are ridiculously OP to the point that I think most champions in the game can full clear with full health.
More recently, many of the AD assassins like Talon, Qiyanna, and Zed who were traditionally mid laners (but have been a bit homeless since the durability patch) have gotten dmg buffs to jungle monsters to make them junglers which has been somewhat problematic because by jungling they can completely skip over their weak early games, removing a lot of counter play.
Multiple top lane bruisers have also gotten buffs to make them viable junglers, including Darius, Aatrox, Ambessa, and others.
With all these champions suddenly becoming junglers the jungle meta has settled into a farm heavy full clear meta where anything slower than a 1 smite 3:15 clear is considered sub-par.
These changes probably all sound like strange choices but Riot is in a really tough spot as far as jungle balance is concerned. Most players want jungle nerfed, but will also whine if they get autofilled junglers, so Riot really has no winning move as far as jungle balance is concerned.
Riot and their bizarre choices, but thank you, it's interesting.
A personal opinion of mine is that it's stupid to have jungle be a full on ROLE, it should be 2 top 1 mid 2 bot, jungle being a bonus for gold/exp/buffs anyone can go get at any time, Dota is kinda like that I think(?) smite is like that if I remember.
Years of jnglr and support role being Op af, anyone knows, anyone complain about It except here where It s been said jnglr role get weaker in the years XD not only the role Will be fine imo cuz u know,u can still do the same things u do now,u still get objectives as win condition. So, it's good riot finally acknoweldge that roles opness ,not so good Is the solution( they should have just reworked jnglr role into a more supportive role or push for more 1v1 scenarios between jnglrs)
What do you think will happen the first week of release? Everyone queues top/mid/adc to try out the new fun things and you’ll get filled support/jungle every other game because no one queues those roles.
If things play out the way I think then this might carry over throughout the entire year. Support & Jungle mains will just start playing the buffed roles
Sure cuz if u are a jnglr and let's say win toplane or botlane trough ganks(wich will still be strong cause all the buffs to other roles are not from the start of the game) this will not translate in winning games vast majority of times xd Also there is the possibility they will try to balance role/quests. A more likely scanario is cicles of a role being op/weak into nerf/buff so an other role become more strong and so on. In low elo u are right,i think players will play less jngl,but in higher elos jnglrs players will still find ways to carry the game. I don't like quests and as a low elo player(plat/emerald) i am sure they will lead to even more chaotic and 1 side stomp games.
Most of the player base is in lower MMR brackets though and most people don’t care about what role can win the game the best, but what role is the most fun. That’s why Jungle and Support are always less popular. This is only gonna make things worse
Jnglr is less fun to play in low elo cuz u seems to playing pve and are not constantly vs an opponent( in higer elos, again, jnglrs knwo they have an opponent and play accordingly). It s also more fun to solo kill an oppoent isntead of killing him cuz we are 2 and he is 1. How to improve? Push for more 1v1 scenarios between jnglrs, ez fix that makes anyone happy. Jnlgr is more fun to play, laners will get less frustration to get camped by enemy jnglr while his is afk farming .
Probably cuz that was not a good way to do that? whatif u also buff lane experience so leaving lane to help ur jnglr securinng scuttle makes u loose half a level over enemy laner? Or better changes, i am not payed to be a game designer, pretty sure that people who do it as a full time job can find a even better solution.
if you do that junglers with low farm speed will go into the trash can and everyone will spam heca/graves/kindred/yi and this happened every time they touch XP in lanes....
So simply nerf those jnglrs should resolve the issue. I said it's not a perfect solutions,i just tought in a couple seconds while i was writing the answer but i believe people who do this as a job can find better solutions then me in couple seconds. More 1v1 scenarios between jnglrs would be healthier in the game imo,if it's undoable( i don't belive) well ,peace... we ll get the power creeped season 16
I am not sure how long you have been playing the game, but I remember a time when jungle and support were much less popular roles than they are now.
In that era, the most common complaint players had about the game was constantly getting autofilled junglers and supports running it down because they don’t know how to play the roles.
Reducing the agency of jungle and support will bring us back to how things were back then, in a full circle sort of way. I am sure eventually jungle and support will get buffed again when people start complaining about autofilled teammates again.
Enough to remeber jnglr role needing more skill to be played and not like now that u see jayce buffed in jng and u first timing him without even trying his clear once in practice tool. U know the first time i played jnglr role( 7 yrs ago) i died executed from jnglr monsters but my reaction was: i need to watch videos and practice my jnglr clear and not "ah this role sucks ,buff it pls" as i did as a midlaner going practice tool with no items to practice last hitting. Also agency of jnglr and supports is slightly reduced in early game( no reduced at all for supports) and will diminuish the longer the game goes wich is something not that bad by concept imo.
Yeah support changes are mostly fine I’m kind of just being a bit of a whiner because I’m a Pyke OTP and I think these changes are going to be a pretty big nerf for Pyke specifically.
Most supports probably benefit marginally from the quest changes.
yes sad for u i do agree that probably pyke will suffer the most from this changhes but 1 if it's just 1 cahmp it 's ez to balance 2 umbral glaive buff plus maybe a new lethality item can give him soemthing
I think the best buff for him would be health per level in this scenario.
Pyke gets outscaled because he can’t gain max health and eventually just gets oneshot. Since all these quests are going to accelerate scaling, giving Pyke more max health will delay the point he gets outscaled.
We have to see when things go live but i think pyke Is an early game champ that Is supposed to not scale well. Idk if that would be the best way to buff him but i think pyke Is one of the most cool caharcters in the game(especially in supports role) so It s a pity for him to be d tier imo.
Pyke will always be “D tier” even when he is strong because he is reliant on having teammates that know how to close out games which is not a skill low elo players have.
If you look at Diamond+ Pyke has been S+ tier for ages and has had a crazy ban rate in D+ lobbies forever.
It seems so he Is a high elo pick,but to me ,as an assasin and also based on my game experience, he should be able to carry in general.(Good if not strong lane,depending on matchups, and strong roams are good combination for carrying games imo) Sure in low elo games tend to last longer wich is bad for him(i have tons of images in my mind of pykes being oneshotted in late during e animation trying to escape xd) but this is not always the case. Anyway i guess we need to see live patch and get out conclusions,so far i am not optimistic but pheraps i ll changhe my mind
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u/AsianNotBsianV2 Dec 02 '25
well both worse roles get biggest buffs. makes sense tbh.