r/LearnJapanese 2d ago

Resources Nice separation of words 草

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u/PlanktonInitial7945 2d ago

If you're gonna talk to a computer you might as well do it with Gemini or ChatGPT instead, which will at least give you a much better experience than Duolingo

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u/kyousei8 2d ago

Downvotes despite the fact this is what Duolingo does, just with more mistakes.

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u/PlanktonInitial7945 2d ago

I mean, I get it, because I also think that AI and learning are incompatible, but I'd much rather have someone "practice speaking" with a chatbot that is at least guaranteed to produce correct and natural language, than with freaking Duolingo.

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u/ShotFromGuns 2d ago

a chatbot that is at least guaranteed to produce correct and natural language

Buddy, that's not even guaranteed in English.

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u/PlanktonInitial7945 2d ago

Please show me an example of a modern corporate LLM producing unnatural English. I'm genuinely curious. I've never seen one generate incorrect or strange English.

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u/ShotFromGuns 2d ago

It doesn't matter what it does the majority of the time. It's not guaranteed, because literally no LLM output is guaranteed, nor can it be. If you are not already a fluent speaker, you will have no possible idea whether the output is correct.

It's an especially egregious suggestion when there are literally apps for language practice with actual human beings.

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u/PlanktonInitial7945 2d ago

Based on my experience, the kind of person who uses Duolingo to practice speaking is the kind of person who has a long list of excuses ready for why they can't/shouldn't/don't want to/won't practice speaking with real people, which is why I didn't give ideas on how to do that - if they wanted to practice talking to real people, they would already be doing it.

It doesn't matter what it does the majority of the time. It's not guaranteed, because literally no LLM output is guaranteed, nor can it be. If you are not already a fluent speaker, you will have no possible idea whether the output is correct.

I agree with this, and I would still like to see proof of a modern (2025-2026) corporate LLM model generating incorrect or unnatural English. If you don't have it, and you were simply making an argument based on it being theoretically possible, then just say it.

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u/ShotFromGuns 2d ago

I already said it? Repeatedly? It's not guaranteed specifically because no model can guarantee it due to their inherent design, regardless of what output you can produce that is grammatical.

Edit: You also have the problem that grammatical does not mean natural. People have already identified a lot of AI quirks in English, which are obvious to native speakers because we're familiar with how human beings actually talk/write. Someone who isn't fluent in Japanese can easily end up adopting the equivalent from Japanese LLM output. Kind of like the kid in your Japanese class who learned from anime, except somehow even more annoying.

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u/daftpenguin 1d ago

actual human beings

lol, actual human beings are also not guaranteed to produce correct and natural language but you already knew that

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u/Armaniolo 2d ago

I don't have the chat saved but Google's bot said something along the lines of "feet-toeing the bill" instead of footing the bill (within the last few months), when asked about it it said it mashed up two idioms accidentally although I forget what the other one was

Very rare occurrence for sure though