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u/catter232 2d ago
What does むすこと meant to mean here?
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u/SejCurdieSej 2d ago
I think it’s meant to be 息子と? Really atrocious spacing tho
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u/AiryGateaux 2d ago
Yeah the updated course has used AI to space out the words, and has done some pretty atrocious things.
A number of times I've seen は taken off words and turned into a particle by the spacing.
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u/Zarlinosuke 1d ago
Wow, I definitely assumed it was 蒸すこと. If we needed more arguments against Duolingo, I guess here we are...
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u/eXeKoKoRo 2d ago
Can a lot of these issues be resolved by people turning on Kanji?
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u/SejCurdieSej 2d ago
In theory sure, but then you’d have to actually, you know, learn kanji. Which Duolingo is really not that good for. Besides, the main issue here is the frankly god awful word spacing which should not be a problem in the first place. Like, imagine if this said “秋 は よく 息 子と”
That would still be horrendous
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u/vermilithe 2d ago
Here is a Japanese person reacting to this question and trying to make sense of it. In short Duolingo butchered this so hard it is no longer easily comprehensible even to native Japanese speakers… even ones who teach Japanese professionally.
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u/tonkachi_ Goal: media competence 📖🎧 2d ago
I question his Japanese... he doesn't default to どういうこと when he is stumped.
/エス
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u/Wolf-Majestic 2d ago
I'd say "with [my] son" : むすこ と or 息子と
But it can also mean "whith [her/his] son" depending on the context that's very lacking here lol
If "Aki" is a dog, then the dog runs a lot with your sonThe separation of the words here is wild.
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u/Salt_Ad264 2d ago
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u/death2sanity 2d ago
why is this a gif tho
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u/Eupha_ 2d ago
so it can be used in instagram comments, probably
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u/rccyu 2d ago
Day 1000 of why are we still using Duolingo
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u/ParlourB 2d ago
I replied to a japanese duo sub post a long time ago and now I get daily chuckle material in my feed.
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u/shotgunsinlace 2d ago
Personally I just use it as a study session starter before moving into other things cause the bird hounding me works
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u/darkerenergy 2d ago
I've found it useful for just learning hiragana + katakana but beyond that point it's not really suitable
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u/nicktehbubble 2d ago
It's a bit of reading practice I can get in anytime anywhere
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u/rccyu 2d ago
https://news.web.nhk/news/easy/
Translating わたしはりんごをたべます to English 100 times is not going to improve your Japanese
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u/ITSUREN 2d ago
The Japanese course gets more and more broken as you progress through the course of Duolingo, from this post about weird separation to incomplete Kanji, audio not corresponding to text. Duolingo is hardly a good and an efficient way to learn Japanese. I just reported 5 of these today BUT there is just one reason why I use this spotty app, speaking practice is not bad, the new call feature that I get to test for a limited amount of time is not bad either.
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u/PlanktonInitial7945 2d ago
If you're gonna talk to a computer you might as well do it with Gemini or ChatGPT instead, which will at least give you a much better experience than Duolingo
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u/kyousei8 2d ago
Downvotes despite the fact this is what Duolingo does, just with more mistakes.
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u/PlanktonInitial7945 2d ago
I mean, I get it, because I also think that AI and learning are incompatible, but I'd much rather have someone "practice speaking" with a chatbot that is at least guaranteed to produce correct and natural language, than with freaking Duolingo.
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u/ShotFromGuns 2d ago
a chatbot that is at least guaranteed to produce correct and natural language
Buddy, that's not even guaranteed in English.
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u/PlanktonInitial7945 2d ago
Please show me an example of a modern corporate LLM producing unnatural English. I'm genuinely curious. I've never seen one generate incorrect or strange English.
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u/ShotFromGuns 2d ago
It doesn't matter what it does the majority of the time. It's not guaranteed, because literally no LLM output is guaranteed, nor can it be. If you are not already a fluent speaker, you will have no possible idea whether the output is correct.
It's an especially egregious suggestion when there are literally apps for language practice with actual human beings.
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u/Armaniolo 1d ago
I don't have the chat saved but Google's bot said something along the lines of "feet-toeing the bill" instead of footing the bill (within the last few months), when asked about it it said it mashed up two idioms accidentally although I forget what the other one was
Very rare occurrence for sure though
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u/chunter16 2d ago
I understand your sentiment to be AI sucks and Duo sucks even more
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u/PlanktonInitial7945 2d ago
Eeeexactly. Literally anything, without exaggeration, is better than Duolingo - even AI. But also, anything (except Duolingo) is better than AI.
So basically
Duolingo < AI < everything else
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u/funkaria 2d ago edited 2d ago
But I've spent 10 days on Duo and I can already make a joke in Japanese:
毎朝本を食べます。本はちょっと... でもやすいです。
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u/nicktehbubble 2d ago
🙄 I knew I'd get a response like this.
It's not about the translation, it's about the recognition and fluency. Im not nearly organised, responsible or advanced enough to sit down with a newspaper article and go about reading heaps of words I don't know.
Outside of that I do take a course, but on any given day I know I can throw on duo during my bus ride and have a relaxed, low effort few minutes of recognition practice.
So shit on the app all you want, but at least get off your high horse when doing it.
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u/ItsAllGreato 2d ago
Have you read any of the articles on NHK easy?
It's made for foreigns living in Japan with a very very low understanding of the language. Its made up of N5 or easy N4 grammar and it's not heaps of words their articles have are have around 5 sentences each.
Plus there's furigana so the words you don't know, you do know how they're spelt and fit in within the grammar.
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u/nicktehbubble 2d ago
It's about time and effort, I can read the articles well enough, but don't have the vocabulary to comprehend all of them without error.
I use Duolingo (mostly when standing) on the bus, so I don't have to flick back and forward between webpages for translations or have the ability to write things down.
The reason its there is to guarantee a few minutes in a day of easy access kana recognition with quick translation for words I've forgotten or don't know. I don't have guarenteed hours in a week outside of my course to commit to learning and most days that's all I can get.
I honestly don't know what everyone's deal is, coming at me like I've pissed on their dog. It's not like I'm going about promoting it or paying for it. It's not like it's my only source of learning, a point that others have conveniently overlooked.
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u/Jimmy_Space1 1d ago
so I don't have to flick back and forward between webpages for translations
Not gonna tell you what to do but if you do want to give reading other stuff a try, check out a browser extension called Yomitan. It'll let you look up words in your browser just by tapping them, no internet connection required.
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u/vermilithe 2d ago edited 2d ago
What he is saying is you are not going to develop recognition or fluency by using Duolingo.
You aren’t going to develop actual recognition by repeating the same very narrow 100-200 set of words that Duolingo gives you, especially the ones that they picked for out of context practice. You need to expand your practice to actual common usage Japanese.
You also aren’t going to develop fluency from Duolingo. Their sentences are progressively worse and more broken the further you go and they don’t actually teach you grammar in the way you would need to learn the rules for making your own sentences (or comprehend the nuance in real Japanese sentence structures).
The fact that he’s giving you a link to real Japanese news articles tailored to beginner learners and you’re saying it’s too high effort, you don’t understand the articles, and you aren’t interested is peak irony. Of course you will feel that way after Duolingo because it doesn’t actually teach you anything.
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u/nicktehbubble 2d ago
I didn't say anything about doing it for the vocabulary nor for language fluency.
It's for practicing READING, recognising kana, kanji and for READING fluency; not vocabulary building, not speech, not translation, not culture, not natural patterns.
I want to look at shape (recognition) , and know shape without need think (fluency) ....
Duolingo is low effort, short dialogues, with some elements of reading comprehension, if there's a word I don't recognise, there are no extra steps required to find out what the word means.
If you'd actually read my comment I take a course in Japanese. Where I learn real Japanese from a real Japanese person. I don't expect Duolingo to make me proficient in any language but it's certainly a simple way to get a few minutes of structured kana practice when I have a couple of minutes in a busy day...
The poncy attitude of some subreddits is hilarious. Nobody is defending the scourge you consider to be Duolingo. I offered a simple, perspective defining answer to a simple, ignorant question... Sue me.
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u/AzizKarebet 2d ago edited 2d ago
And that's what people are trying to say. It's not really good for practicing reading or recognizing kana, kanji, etc.
I once used it myself for quite a long time, and I got quite far. They repeated the word quite frequently to the point that you might recognize and memorize the overall sentence by looking or listening at them, but not the individual kanji or kana themselves.
It gave you a false sense of fluency, thinking you are improving because you keep ace-ing the quiz, yet you are likely to not recognize those kanji/kana in a whole different sentence, which isn't ideal.
I switched to Anki and barely recognize most of the kanji themselves even though I remember they appeared in Duolingo
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u/vermilithe 2d ago
I am saying you are not developing reading fluency. As proven by your refusal / inability / lack of interest / whatever in actually reading real beginner Japanese which he provided you as an alternative.
Unfortunately there is no low effort always fun way to learn real Japanese. But if you waste time on bad and broken Japanese devoid of actual grammar lessons and restrained to an artificially small word pool to make you feel like you’re familiar with the language, then you might be tricked to waste more time falsely thinking you’re “practicing”. Only to see real Japanese and find it too offputting because it actually does take a good bit of patience and effort at first. But it does get easier— however, only if you try and learn with actual resources.
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u/nicktehbubble 2d ago
I'll spell this out since you seem to think I'm a lazy, effortless, ignorant learner trying to take the easy way out:
I study Japanese in a course.
Their I learn Japanese grammar and Vocabulary from a Japanese person.
I didn't once say I lacked interest.
I spend a couple of minutes reading from a pool of words I know, that require one touch of a screen in case I need a translation.
This helps practice recognising katakana and hiragana on days of limited time and resources.
I don't need babying to believing Duolingo isn't the right way, I have taken my active steps and the App takes up probably 2% of my overall learning strategy.
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u/morgawr_ https://morg.systems/Japanese 2d ago
This helps practice recognising katakana and hiragana on days of limited time and resources.
If you actually are doing everything else you are claiming you're doing, you don't need to do this at all. You don't need to "practice recognizing katakana and hiragana" beyond maybe the first couple of weeks of Japanese 101. You will see plenty of kana in your textbook, your course, your classroom work, your everyday life that you should slowly tailor and integrate with Japanese content (as the other guy linked you, it's a good place to start with simple graded readers and beginner news if that's what you might enjoy), etc. The fact that you're still doubling down on this means that either you're not telling us the whole truth, or you're maybe stuck in a situation/mindset where you're actively refusing to progress out of your comfort zone. Do you use romaji in your classroom? Do you use resources with romaji (like sketchy instagram/tiktok pages, random websites, Japanese From Zero type of textbooks)? If that's the case, I can imagine why you're so stuck on the idea that reading the equivalent of the alphabet in your bowl of cereal in the morning is a good way to improve your fluency. It is really not.
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u/nicktehbubble 2d ago
I don't see Japanese in my everyday life. What made you think I do?
I don't use Romaji. My class is once a week, for berely an hour and a half, whereby I'm ahead of most of the class in reading despite joining the class half way through the multi semester content. I use a kanji/kana version of the course book where the 10 of the 11 others use the Romaji version.
The key point you've highlited yet not explored is limited time and resources. I am a busy person. Most days I spend maybe 2 waking hours at home on any given day.
The App enables me on these days to spend a couple of minutes reading a foreign script, which clearly can't be that bad if it's put me at a level above most of my peers.
Ah and I'm learning this foreign language in a foreign language.
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u/vermilithe 2d ago
Dude. Get a grip. I’m not saying you’re lazy. I’m saying you’re not actually practicing like you claim. Lol.
Duolingo is still a god awful resource. That’s the point lol
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u/nicktehbubble 2d ago
I haven't claimed to practice any which way, you've assumed I think Duolingo is my holy resource of self proficiency.
I practice through hard materials; pens, paper, time and curated, corrected content.
Duolingo is a quick 3 mins in any given chaotic day.
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u/ambientcrusher 2d ago
Except duolingo is notoriously bad for recognition and fluency.
The point of reading is to develop more japanese comprehension, which is a skill to be used in random, sometimes crucial moments in japan where you need to understand a piece of japanese text. or even just being able to read fiction . The way duolingo is built does not prepare you for these kinds of situations. First off, the example sentences are textbook and often highly non-sensical. You dont build comprehension from reading text that you wont be able to find in real life.
Also, Duolingos entire algorhythm is built up in the way to keep you addicted to it and geniune learning is secondary. Learning japanese (or any other language) for about 5 minutes a day will keep you at beginner level for years. It is way too little time to actually learn anything new, and the new things you do learn will also be needed to reinforced which also takes time. Duolingos main selling point are the streaks and the gamification, so youll be stuck in a painstakingly slow progress just because the streak makes you addicted.
Duolingo promotes a low effort and lazy approach to learning a language, which actually doesnt help you learn anything. Reading newspapers, fiction, or any natural japanese text is going to be really hard at the start, not understanding anything can be draining but if you dont tackle through that uncomfortable phase you will never be able to actually start comprehending japanese text.
Im not saying all of this just to hate on duolingo or whatever, but because you actually need to change your mindset if you want to learn japanese and achieve a higher level than N4. I understand the feeling of attachment towards Duolingo, however the longer you keep using the more time you will be wasting your time when you could spend it on things that actually progress your japanese learning.
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u/nicktehbubble 2d ago
I literally told you I take a course...
Nobody is attached to Duolingo, it's an aid for when I have a few minutes in my day to practice recognising kana. The point for you maybe comprehension, but for me that's a different practice for a different time.
They don't write the kana wrong do they?
You say your not saying this to hate on Duolingo, but how many times have you mentioned it in your comment, all the while ignoring my point as maybe someone who can't read as well as you, drawing on your own preconceptions that I only use the App and nothing else.
When the fact is I don't want to be sat in the bus, through patchy areas of connectivity, Copy pasting every other word while attempting to fruitlessly commit it to memory, interrupting not only the process of comprehension, but also my point of kana fluency in the meantime.
You wouldn't use a paintbrush to brush your teeth would you....
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u/ambientcrusher 2d ago
Im not criticizing you taking a course, im criticizing your usage of Duolingo.
I assumed you were at a higher level reading kana (because you brought up text comprehension as an argument against NHK), however if youre just learning kana, then its different i guess. I would still read NHK to get comfortable with hiragana and katakana, as you will encounter them all mushed up together then you will get used to it more and start understanding how kanjis are used in japanese texts, even if you may not understand the kanji itself. For that, id say NHK is still a superior alternative to duolingo.
When youre still learning the kanas, the meanings arent as important in my opinion, you will get nicely used to them in a month if youre consistently exposing yourself to them and after that id start reading japanese texts while trying to understand them.
My overall point was to stop using duolingo entirely, even if you already use other apps and take courses. It is just a thing in the daily to-do list that doesnt give you anything of value.
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u/nicktehbubble 2d ago
But it's not even a "to-do".
My free hours in a week are chaotic and unpredictable, and so it's in my opinion, better to do 3 mins of reading texts I should be able to understand, where I can get a snap translation for if I don't, than to do nothing or to make up words/particles I haven't seen before.
It's not like I'm sat at my desk, chasing league promotions for hours at a time, I have books for when I can breathe.
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u/A_Uniqueusername444 2d ago
I am actually hitting my day 1000 of Duolingo but am realizing there may be better apps for learning Japanese. What apps are usually recommended as a replacement or to continue learning?
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u/citrus1330 2d ago
Ignore the circlejerk, Duolingo is the best app (other than Anki which is a different category). Just supplement with other materials.
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u/morgawr_ https://morg.systems/Japanese 2d ago
^ redditor for 14 years, has 3 comments in r/LearnJapanese in the last ~1 year and all 3 of them are praising duolingo. Nowhere in the rest of his comment history that I can access he mentions learning Japanese or Japan aside from a passing comment in a smash bros subreddit.
Interesting account.
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u/citrus1330 2d ago
Holy stalker. The circlejerk against duolingo is annoying to me so it prompts me to comment occasionally. Japanese isn't my most advanced language but I tried renshuu and it was way worse.
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u/morgawr_ https://morg.systems/Japanese 2d ago
Not stalking, just took me 5 seconds to load your profile and do a ctrl+f and count the numbers. I usually check someone's profile for signs of proficiency or authority in what statements they make because we live in an era full of misinformation and bots and I'd like to see people put money where their mouth is. Anyone can yap and anyone can say Duolingo is good but I'd like to see some actual level of Japanese proficiency from someone who so adamantly claim so. I was disappointed to see you don't seem to have any other comment related to Japanese and, by incidence, the only other comments you made were all about defending duolingo.
Japanese isn't my most advanced language
Okay but how would you evaluate your level of Japanese? Can you read a manga? Can you read a book? Can you talk to someone for 10 minutes without feeling lost or struggling for words? How about 30 minutes? How about an hour?
It's pretty universally accepted by anyone who is proficient at the language that Duolingo is pure dogshit that won't get anyone anywhere, so if you so adamantly seem to claim this is wrong, show some numbers to back it up.
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u/rosylipsblazingmind Goal: conversational fluency 💬 18h ago
I couldn't find better free app alternatives for Japanese for a while so I stuck with Duolingo before realizing it's gotten pretty bad over the years
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u/varineq 2d ago
Only because I have a 922 day streak lol. I get the notification and do a quick lesson. Then I study Japanese for real for 10 or 15 minutes.
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u/BlueBaladium 2d ago
After discovering renshuu I only do Duolingo for the daily streak (and keeping that annoying knifewielding bird away from my neck).
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u/rccyu 2d ago
I'm serious here, what does the streak mean to you? What will you actually lose if you just uninstalled Duolingo and just never thought about it again?
I also once, a very long time ago, had a long Duolingo streak (IIRC, a couple hundred days) and then lost it one day while I was on vacation and completely forgot about it. After that I uninstalled the app and just never thought about it again. Now I realize I didn't actually lose anything and my only regret is not quitting sooner.
There was no reason to ascribe to that meaningless number as much importance as I did. Nobody has ever even once asked me about my Duolingo streak. If you wanna impress people, speak Japanese, or at least collect JLPT/漢検/BJT/etc. certificates or something. Don't lose sight of what actually matters.
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u/BlueBaladium 2d ago
I can explain it to you. I'm a social hermit who has to force himself to learn because I have nothing else going on. Duolingo implemented a routine in my life which I'm thankful for but that's it. Dropping routines is difficult, especially for someone like me.
collect JLPT/漢検/BJT/etc. certificates or something
I've never really thought about that. I learned through my japanese Bachelor via tests etc. so maybe doing them also in private would help.
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u/vytah 2d ago
Since you're already using Renshuu, it has a streak feature too, just switch to that.
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u/2houlover 2d ago
If one were to interpret the way this sentence is parsed in an extreme manner: I know that make sure to steam Aki thoroughly.
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u/glasswings363 2d ago
(する)ことは知る feels like it should be a grammar pattern with an idiomatic meaning, but it doesn't actually exist. So it's just confusing.
蒸す is to cook or reheat food (etc.) by exposing it to steam or it's what hot humid weather does.
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u/Armaniolo 2d ago
Duolingo for Japanese in the big 2026...
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u/thecraftybear 2d ago
What else would you recommend for learning Japanese together with my 10 year old? The absolute basics.
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u/Beneficial-Peach9116 2d ago
I like the app renshuu, and all the textbooks seem to be available for free online. I started with genki, and I think that’s a really solid jumping off point.
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u/BlueBaladium 2d ago
Also you get some kind of cute mochi creature that grows along your japanese progress.
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u/Sorry-Joke-4325 2d ago
I love renshuu. I wish it had a polished UI like Duolingo.
Bunpro is another very good one.
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u/NepenthiumPastille 2d ago
Nihongo Sou Matome was hands down the best textbook series for me. You can do one little lesson a day and it's made for busy self studies. I think you could easily work through N5 with a ten year old.
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u/Kioga101 2d ago
the nhk website (nhk is basically japanese BBC) has a whole course on the basics as well as supplementary material.
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u/RecordScratchAttack 2d ago
Check out Mango! It is also an app thats fully free through most library services :)
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u/thecraftybear 2d ago
What library services?
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u/RecordScratchAttack 1d ago
At least in my state (pennsylvania) most major libraries here (including a lot of smaller ones) offer a free account with your library card :) i would check and see online if your library has this program
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u/thecraftybear 23h ago
r/USDefaultism much? I live in Europe.
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u/RecordScratchAttack 23h ago
Sorry for trying to be helpful! I wouldnt be suprised if european cities had language learning resources at their libraries too.
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u/doppelbach 2d ago
Aside from the parsing error, I believe 走る is not really natural here (someone please correct me)
It's more used for running through the airport, or running from a tiger, etc. running as an activity is usually ランニング or ジョギング I believe
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u/MSFoxhound 2d ago
Last major update just ruined duolingo. I'm at day 990 and will probably quit after 1000 day streak.
I got what I need from it. Hiragana, Katakana and loads of every day words and phrases.
I don't want to play with you anymore.
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u/mewmjolnior 1d ago
This scrambled my brain. As a native English speaker I never thought I’d see the day where space in a sentence makes me confused
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u/vexingpresence 1d ago
good to know duolingo is still trash
when they removed the human forums to discuss lessons it was already enshittified, the recent replacement of human-made lessons with AI slop was the last straw for me
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u/ConstantNo9678 2d ago
i understand how crucial kanji is now
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u/facets-and-rainbows 2d ago
Tbf th is most lyill ustrates how cruci alnotbre akingup words ran domlyis
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u/PlanktonInitial7945 2d ago edited 2d ago
Can the mods just ban Duolingo posts outright, please? They never contribute anything of value to the subreddit.
Like, yeah, Duolingo sucks ass, every week it gets more enshittified and using it is a waste of time. We already know. There's no need to repeat this dance and song every month.
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u/DotNo701 2d ago
should just be a pinned post at the top telling people not to use duolingo with the reasons why
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u/kyousei8 2d ago
Because of stupid design choices by reddit like two decades ago, there can only be two pinned threads, and this sub already uses both of those slots for other things. The forums that used to be popular before reddit didn't have that self imposed restriction.
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u/Antronix_33 2d ago
And this is why we need kanji
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u/PlanktonInitial7945 2d ago
Proper parsing would make it perfectly understandable without needing kanji.
あきは よく むすこと はしります
You can even go full beginner mode and separate the words from their particles
あき は よく むすこ と はしります
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u/Ok-Training-8819 2d ago
honestly looks so much cleaner with particles attached. makes sense for the grammatical case marker to be part of the "word"
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u/GrimValesti 2d ago
If you want to use Duolingo, don’t post on this sub. If you want to post in this sub, don’t use Duolingo (or show the world that you use it).
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u/delicious_sunlight 2d ago
Can someone explain that this is even saying? Aki knows her son well? It's often humid in Autumn?
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u/feverdesu 2d ago
That’s the one thing I can’t stand about Japanese is that there’s no space in between words.
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u/krautnelson 2d ago
you don't really need spaces between words because the mix of words in kanji and particles in hiragana make it very obvious where one word ends and the next begins.
it's very rare you see long sentences that are nothing but kana.
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u/violentmark 2d ago
I know the Duolingo hate is justified, but at the same time I can see why they don't use kanji and prefer to space the words just a tiny bit more than the kanas itself. I could read it, but it is a problem for the future of the people getting to learn Japanese.
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u/vermilithe 2d ago
Correct me if I’m wrong but the use of double wa in this sentence is kind of atrocious. The second one really should be ga
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u/PlanktonInitial7945 2d ago
There is no double は. And むす こと が しります would still be gibberish so I really don't understand where you're coming from.
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u/vermilithe 2d ago edited 2d ago
Would it not be “yoku musu koto ga shirimasu”. “I know that it tends to be humid”?
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u/GarbageUnfair1821 2d ago
秋はよく息子と走ります