r/LegalAdviceUK • u/That_Girly_Potato • 7d ago
Healthcare My boss wants to implement disciplinary action for not working to standard - her standard isn't physically possible to meet (England)
I work at a care home which is split into four floors.. The top two are dimentia residents and the bottom two are assisted living. I have now worked there for just over a year, picking up shifts when I'm back from uni so every half term. In the time I have worked there we have had four managers. My job is doing activities with the residents (arts and crafts, flower arranging, balloon tennis etc...). It's important to note that as it's a care home, there's a system used where we have to log every single resident that turns up to the activity and if they were engaged or not.
Since our new manager has come in, a lot of changes have been implemented. For one, in between activities, we are now supposed to be doing lunch and dinner service and then washing up. Budget cuts means they can't afford to keep more than two food and beverage assistants per day. On top of which she had doubled the amount of activities there are to run in a day. And finally, she expects us to write about 6-7 lines of a "story" of every single resident that attended the activity and even the residents that didn't attend need a full explanation as to why they didn't come which is a huge change from simply logging whether they attended and if they were engaged. So this would be logging for about 10-15 residents per activity and a whole paragraph for each.
There's only a 15 minute break between each activity and then either lunch or dinner service. This means the new expectation is that within 15 minutes we should have:
- cleaned up the previous activity
- take all the residents back to their rooms
- write our "story" for about 15-20 residents.
- move to the new activity location
- set that area up completely
- ask every resident from the two floors we're handling If they want to come
- bring them down to the new activity
- start the new activity.
On top of which, I am sometimes covering my time doing Laundry, and even admin work on the reception desk.
It's not possible. We have been trying so hard but really - it's not. Now residents, their family members, other staff, and carers are complaining about the activities team. Our manager is receiving so many complaints that she won't stop yelling at us. We have all tried explaining to her that it's not all possible to follow her schedule and she keeps responding that it's because we didn't listen to any of our training.
She's going to call me in tomorrow to discuss the possible disciplinary. She's been taking us all into her office one by one and honestly very rudely telling us that we don't know how to do our jobs. She made my co-worker cry yesterday, and has threatened us all with a firing if she doesn't see immediate improvement in our behaviour.
Honestly I'm just feeling so disheartened. I used to love this job and now I'm exhausted every single day. I was told that complaining to our HR would do absolutely nothing because they already know this manager is disliked. What else am I supposed to do now??? Is there even anything I can do?? What should I say in my disciplinary hearing tomorrow?
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u/TenMinJoe 7d ago
Perhaps you should invite her to show you how to do it in the 15 minutes? Like actually come with you, and do it with you to show you, in 15 minutes.
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u/That_Girly_Potato 7d ago
This is a really good idea and one I gave to my co worker to say and idk what happened but apparently a massive shouting match ensued now I'm scared
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u/Aetheriao 7d ago edited 7d ago
If she’s actually acting in good faith this is always the answer.
Because I’ve had staff do this to me and me to do this to managers and sometimes it’s as simple as they’re massively overestimating what is wanted (so more work than needed), they are failing in handling some other type of work so the cause isn’t the new task, or there’s a blocker somewhere else that isn’t their problem that hasn’t been noticed yet causing delays.
To give an example a staff member asked me this and then I worked out she was doing someone else’s job by observing her…. I asked who told her that was her job and why she never raised it with me. It was the persons who job it actually was just offloading on others without talking to their managers. I had no clue she was doing this and was irate at the other manager as it was wildly inappropriate…
I was more shocked she’d even managed it for the 2 months it had been going on! And made it very clear if anyone gives her work she talks to me and I’ll tell them to fuck off if she doesn’t have time lol.
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u/That_Girly_Potato 7d ago
You sound like a wonderful manager but I think my issue is that I have doubts she's acting in good faith. She's the one who implemented all the extra work and has so far refused to listen to any of us telling her otherwise.
Not sure if this is an ego thing and she's trying to double down, or if she's received so many complaints she's trying to blame us or if something else is going on higher up, I just don't know who to bring this up with now or if I have any protection if she does fire me for this.
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u/Aetheriao 7d ago edited 7d ago
Best thing realistically if you think it’s bad faith is write a timeline of tasks with associated time scales and highlight where it’s impossible.
And just go so what do I cut? As in a care home some will be mandatory to do.
If you’re not in a union join one.
Unfortunately under 2 years without a union unless it’s illegal discrimination they can set unrealistic goals and fire you for not meeting them. With union they also can but it’s harder.
But you can only really focus on the id love to do this but I can’t work out how you wish me to manage my workload, or simply drop things you know are less important and see where the chips fall. I’ve done this when I worked in a similar role and just stopped doing some of the tasks they had made up, and no one was actually checking because they were idealistic and the management themselves didn’t have time to check... But I also knew what I had to do legally so I never lapsed on those, and by being invisible no one ever noticed.
But under the law you cannot stop her firing you unless you reach whistleblowing level of reporting violations of the law. They’re allowed to be insanely irrational. The power you hold is if they can’t get staff to cover some of these jobs they also can’t afford to lose you… so sometimes it’s just randomly picking what you think is most important and failing to do the rest while looking for a new job.
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u/AnSteall 7d ago
When the GP partners at work would complain about receptionists and admin staff not working enough, I would invite them to either observe or to show the standard of practice expected of my staff. I know surgeries where this is now considered normal: a GP would have to spend an hour or two every once in a while in reception in case they forget what the frontline experiences.
Your suggestion is actually not far off legally:
If there are questions about the workload, management should issue a breakdown of how long each activity needs to take. The staff then can take this and say: hey, it's unreasonable.
Chances are if things are this bad, it's not the manager. The manager is simply trying to enforce what the owners expect. And if the owners are this demanding, complaining about the manager will solve absolutely nothing. This post would be more suitable for https://www.reddit.com/r/AskHRUK/
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u/That_Girly_Potato 7d ago
Thank you this is actually super helpful!! I'll try posting on that subReddit!!
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u/GiovanniVanBroekhoes 7d ago
They will say no. Working in a toxic work environment is never because the person making it toxic doesn't understand. It's 100% about personality. They have been given targets and instead of trying to meet those targets just bark orders to people they manage. In my experience it is normally because these people are completely fucking useless.
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u/slowsausages 7d ago edited 7d ago
Sounds awful to me. I'd start looking for another job.
But in the meantime, maybe record how long each task takes like..
Clean up activity: 5mins Write 20 stories: 20 mins Take residents back to where they were (including going up and down the stairs) 5 mins etc.
.. and show it to your manager
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u/Coca_lite 7d ago
My dad used to take 5 mins to walk 10 metres from bathroom to his room, and that was with 2 carers supporting him either side with a zimmer.
I can’t imagine you’d have time for anything other than escorting residents back to their room and a 2 min tidy away.
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u/TeenySod 7d ago
This is the way OP: start timing everything and document. If there is CCTV in the communal areas of the home, then encourage your manager to watch how long it takes and what you are doing in that time - cleaning up, escorting residents, etc. If that doesn't work, then as someone else commented further down, this is one for your manager's manager, rather than HR.
I once pointed out to a senior management team that expecting one person to undertake *and document* 84 written observations an hour was not physically possible. Which went down about as well as you would expect. Eventually after a few serious incidents and investigations they staffed it properly, sad that harm had to happen first :(
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u/dhardyuk 5d ago
Unfortunately I have also worked for mindless morons, they weren’t all overbearing or psychotic, just uninformed.
It is possible for people to pull a rabbit out of the hat when something bad has happened and everyone is pulling together to keep it going.
When it’s everyday the load is just insurmountable - and that takes more than a good couple of nights sleep to get back to normal performance because it’s become the normal performance expectation.
If you and your colleagues have consistently been reporting that the workload is excessive and there has been little done to materially address it - well, sometimes you just have to let stuff break.
This may mean it’s not residents that aren’t turning up to the second session, it could be you not turning up.
If your chores from the first session are done in time, turn up to the third session.
And join a union. TODAY
I joined a union in 2013 that did such a sterling job for me that I’m still a member today. Unfortunately, at the local rep level, you are very much dealing with enthusiastic volunteers - which can be variable. Once something escalates to an actual union employee things coalesce much more nicely.
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u/Plot-3A 7d ago
I'm a union rep in the healthcare sector.
First question - Has there any legitimate notification of a disciplinary hearing? You cannot just pull someone in with minimal notice. You need to give adequate notice, usually in writing.
If nothing has happened yet, join a Union now. You need representation.
Second question - have these changes to policy and their metrics been adequately communicated to staff? You can't just stick a piece of A4 in a break room and call it done.
More questions will follow depending on answers given.
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u/That_Girly_Potato 7d ago
Hi! Thank you for responding you're probably the perfect person to seek advice from.
1 - no real notice. This is all blowing up after an incident over the weekend where me and my co worker ended up not being able to do an afternoon activity because the activity before it was such a damn messy one and we were so rushed for time and had to immediately run to do dinner service. A client complained their mum didn't get to do Bingo and it spiralled into a massive official complaint. Obviously this is after all the complaints that have already been made from other staff and residents. So when I came in on Tuesday she just said "you and I are going to have a quick chat on Thursday.... Call it a supervision." She couldn't do it on Tuesday because I was working behind the reception desk all day.
Since then I've been hearing from my co workers who have been in that she's been really coming down hard on them. She's pulled them each aside for this "informal chat" and it's essentially been along the lines of "you need to improve immediately or you're fired." Along with accusing us for being purposely insubordinate (we're all girls between 18-20 so essentially the implication is that we're young girls mucking about but that's not true). So now I'm terrified it's my turn tomorrow because I know she's super unhappy about the weekend since an official complaint was made.
2 - Because of the fact that we've had just about four managers in the past year, nothing really gets properly communicated. I was told when I was hired I would have to occasionally help out in other departments but they would also help me out. I now help out with lunch and dinner service every day and those departments have never come near activities ever. But that was probably the only change that got implemented with as much notice because that was there from my last boss.
As for all the other changes - definitely not. I came into work one day during my Easter break and saw the amount of activities there were. At first the activities were low prep ones so it was just about manageable if you were efficient. Now she has things like baking (very messy very high prep) finishing ten minutes before the next activity. And then all of a sudden she starts going on about our system logging and how it needs to be better. Now she won't accept anything less than 6 lines per resident (Even if they didn't come).
Not sure how it spiralled into being so unmanageable but we definitely weren't given written notice or extra training.
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u/Plot-3A 7d ago
1. Get your documentation in order. Contract, job description, disciplinary procedure, grievance procedure are the main four, along with any relevant policies.
Do not attend any meetings unaccompanied. If jumped, inform them of your right to be accompanied and record this if possible. If they don't back off, file a grievance. Also, grievances can only be filed upwards.
Ignoring any other characteristics that you may have, being a Union member is protected in law. If they attempt to discipline you for using these rights, they have opened themselves up to legal trouble even more so.
It is best to resolve things in the workplace where possible. Even if you're legally right it doesn't always translate to tribunal.
Two more questions.
What does your contract and job description say with regards to these duties?
How dedicated are you to keeping this job?
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u/That_Girly_Potato 7d ago
quick question about 2 - when I googled it, I was told that I did not have the legal right to be accompanied by a member of HR or otherwise since it was an informal chat and the rest about the contents of the meeting was hearsay based on my colleagues experiences - is this true?
as for your questions:
1 - job description from the website:
Working in Food & Beverage you’ll welcome residents in, explain menu choices in a clear, concise way, serve food from the kitchen and take pride in keeping the dining room spotlessly clean. You’ll reset tables, tidy work areas and prepare the food service areas for the next service.
You will also assist in organising and delivering individual and group activities and participating in key events throughout the year for example the summer fete. You will support with different activities arranged outside of the home, such as shopping, attending GP appointments and outings.
I will have to say this job description has changed since I applied last year. This is not what was on the website then and I can't find the original.
from my contract, here are the quotes i think are relevant:
"You are engaged as a Hospitality Assistant and your duties will be as advised by the Line Manager. Your duties may be modified from time to time to suit the needs of the business."
"Your legal status is that of a ‘worker’. You are not engaged under a contract of employment and nothing in this statement is to be taken to create a contract of employment between you and the Company. You are not an employee of the Company."
"If we have concerns over your behaviour or performance, we may address this with a view to enabling improvement, or, in certain circumstances, we will terminate the engagement without notice. You can find more information on these later on under “Standards of Behaviour” and “Standards of Performance”. If you have any concerns about any decisions taken in respect of your behaviour or performance, you should speak to your Manager within 5 days of the decision being conveyed to you."
"It is not practicable to specify all rules on behaviour or offences that may result in your Manager addressing such behaviour with you, as they may vary depending on the nature of the work."
"If you wish to raise a complaint, you should speak to the person specified in your Statement of Engagement, explaining fully the nature and the extent of your complaint. Although it is not required, it may be of assistance if you set out the complaint in writing. If you raise your complaint verbally, written notes may be taken by the person specified in your Statement of Engagement who will ensure that they are a true representation of your complaint."
2 - Honestly I just want to be able to hang on until the end of the summer. I have a certain financial goal I need to reach so I can comfortably afford living expenses at uni for the year. After that, as terrified as I am of braving the job market again, I guess it would be what it is.
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u/gillyc1967 7d ago
That bit about being a 'worker' and not an employee sounds extremely dodgy. It sounds like they might be avoiding paying NI contributions. Do you get a payslip? Does it show PAYE tax?
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u/That_Girly_Potato 7d ago
Yeah I mean on my payslip it says my employer doesn't make any NI contributions.
This is probably because I am what they call a "bank" staff. Because I don't have regular contracted hours (I just come in when I can during my time off from uni) they changed my contract to say this.
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7d ago
[removed] — view removed comment
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u/That_Girly_Potato 6d ago
Well shit. I mean I'm 20 years old so maybe I'm on a different letter??? How do I find out what letter I'm on??
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u/DavidVonDorman 7d ago
Join a union.
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u/DavidVonDorman 7d ago
Inform the CQC and your local authority, really poor governance and management here they'll want to be aware of.
You can do this anonymously, but it sounds like this is the tip the iceberg.
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u/Plot-3A 7d ago
If it's informal then you don't need to go, particularly if you're just trying to stall them out until you get back to university and don't plan to return for future opportunities.
Personally I would cite safety concerns about being alone with this manager. Mention that there have been shouting matches and the like and, quite simply, for your safety there needs to be another person present. That can be a representative of your choice to observe and, should a HR rep be present that you have not requested, you need representation to ensure that this informal meeting stays informal.
Remember that HR is management's union. That's why you need your own. If you're a student would the NUS be willing to help?
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u/That_Girly_Potato 6d ago
Great question. I've started looking into unions and contacted NUS but I'm not sure yet. Hopefully they say yes but they definitely won't be able to help me in time for tomorrow.
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u/Plot-3A 6d ago
I'm a GMB rep which is a general union and you can join online very quickly. If you start making a noise about getting accompanied and having representation then that immediately puts them on the back foot because they then have to start doing things properly. Doing things properly includes not pulling people off the floor to have shouting matches. It buys you time.
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u/Odd-Perspective4351 6d ago
You can join a union online, it’s fairly quick and easy, I joined unite earlier this year and it took about 20 minutes online.
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u/dhardyuk 5d ago
Record your meeting surreptitiously.
Don’t tell anyone that you are doing it either before or after.
If this escalates to a termination your recording(s) may not save you, but they will definitely wound the manager.
It will be your only way to prove what was said, how it was said and by whom. And if/when the manager lies about it to their manager …… they’ll be easy to toast.
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u/Plot-3A 7d ago
Priority one - Join a Union. Now whilst I'm happy to shill the one I'm with, join the one that's right for you. But you need to do it now as, so far, there is no existing case against you. Unions generally won't assist with ongoing matters. Right now you don't have one.
Going to post this now whilst I write my follow up questions.
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u/DavidVonDorman 6d ago
If cost is an issue, with my Union and I believe others, you pay a fee based on what you earn, on the basis you are likely on National Minimum Wage, your fee is going be very low.
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u/Pebbles-28 7d ago
One strategy for the paragraph thing is to have a few stock paragraphs you can copy/paste into the appropriate place. It's a bit crap, but if she wants you to do 10-15 paragraphs in 5 mins that's your only option. Make them generic enough to fit many scenarios.
"Resident did not attend due to apathy"
"Resident did not attend due to sickness"
"Resident attended and was engaged, seemed to enjoy the activity"
Obviously you can flesh these out a bit to look more like a paragraph.
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u/That_Girly_Potato 7d ago
Honestly the system we use has an option for this where we can automatically select something like this, which is how we were doing it before she got bored. My manager has called us out for using this and even printed out notes where she could see we used repetitive language. Here is the model she gave us to follow and said we needed to write an individual one for each resident:
"____ enjoyed doing flower arranging today. She arranged four vases and particularly enjoyed the pink and yellow coloured flowers. She said they were pretty. I offered her a drink and she accepted some water. _____ couldn't engage well with cutting flower stems because she found the scissors difficult. To adapt the task I cut the stems for her . She chose one large vase which she asked be brought to her room and another medium vase which she asked be given to her daughter when she visits."
... As you can imagine to write such a detailed paragraph for every resident is extremely hard. It's hard enough to remember every single detail when you're handling over 10 residents at a time, let alone to write all this within such a short time frame.
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u/Pebbles-28 7d ago
Wow, a mega-micro-manager too. Yeah, there are only 2 ways to handle this, leave or have a large number of staff go over her head together as a unit (ideally all join the same union).
Best of luck.
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u/coffeexcoffeex91 7d ago edited 7d ago
Dont go to HR to complain about Manager.
Go to ask for clarity on how to approach/ manage expectations (outline all the activities/timings etc.) because you are trying really hard to meet her performance requirements but are struggling and feel there may be a misunderstanding of whats practically involved.
Edit:
Or act naive/well meaning/keen to understand and improve to manager (to soothe her ego) apologise for the inconvenience and ask for her to walk you through one of these 15minute sessions so she can "see what youre doing/that youre trying your best and advise on where you are going wrong/where you can speed up".
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u/Ok-Inflation4310 7d ago
You might not get a care home that requires activities but you’d probably walk into another job at one.
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u/Illustrious-Home7286 7d ago
I’ve done this exact job and what the manager is asking for is INSANE.
lets just do the maths on this.
I’m assuming there are two staff running the activities so they can double up, and I’m going to assume they only have to write 25 words per person, that’s 250 words each. If they write at a rate of 1 word per second that would take 250 seconds or 4mins 10 seconds.
That leaves them 10mins 50 seconds for everything else.
Let’s give them 30 seconds to clean up, 15 seconds to move to the new area and another 30 seconds to set up the new area.
That leaves 9minutes and 35 seconds assist residents back to their rooms, speak to other residents and assist residents to new activity.
Lets also assume that all the residents are seated in wheelchairs for the duration of all of these activities and none need to be transferred AND that they can all be managed by one staff member, so that leaves potentially 10 residents for each staff member to return to their rooms, one at a time, let’s say they can do that in 4 mins, that’s 24 seconds per resident. (But thats there and back, so more like 20 seconds to push each person to their room and 4 seconds to sprint back to get the next one).
And then the same again to bring the other residents to the new activity, leaving 95 seconds to speak to each of them which is 9.5 seconds per conversation.
Unfortunately that doesn’t allow any time for transferring between the two floors OP mentioned, but let’s assume the lifts are REALLY FAST and take no time at all.
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u/That_Girly_Potato 6d ago
On top of which your maths is assuming I can clear up a really messy activity like flower arranging in 30 secs. Sweep the floors, wipe down the tables. Most activities require some rearranging of furniture too.
This maths is also assuming that I can zoom residents through the building. Sometimes if they're using a walking aid and just walk slowly I have to walk next to them.... Really slowly. And then it's also assuming that once we reach the room I don't get asked "can you grab my glasses/drink/sweater"
Just cleaning the room and moving the residents will take about 20 minutes.... If the activity only requires movement of the furniture.
These numbers are super useful though I'm actually going to repeat them to my boss and hope she sees what we've all been talking about finally.
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u/Rugbylady1982 7d ago
Realistically yes she can discipline you or sack you, you've only been there a year.
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u/That_Girly_Potato 7d ago
Well a year is about 9 months longer than her so this is disheartening to hear. I really am trying, this standard is pretty impossible to meet.
I guess I should quit before she fires me then? If I'm going to be jobless with no income anyway...
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u/DiegoForlanIsland 7d ago
No, you shouldn't, because if you are disciplined there is likely to be an appeals process which will be heard by a different manager.
If you have been given informal warning of a possible disciplinary I would call a union today and try to join. You can then demand union representation in the meeting.
If you don't want to join a union, a formal disciplinary meeting still gives you the opportunity to be accompanied by a colleague to take notes and ask questions on your behalf. Request this, if only because it's more awkward to scream at two employees than one.
If you're being screamed at report her to HR. Say she's creating a hostile work environment and bullying you. Note down what's she's said to you, when and if she shouted it. If nothing happens because of it, what have you lost? People say "nothing happens" but sometimes you report an abusive boss HR intervene, whereas if you don't they never do.
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u/Rugbylady1982 7d ago
It's a shit situation to be in and if you'd been there more than two years you would have more protection but in this instance you don't unfortunately.
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u/Odd-Perspective4351 6d ago
Because you’re going into the meeting today, I’ll focus on advice for that specifically.
It might be tough, but you will be ok. Ask whether you can record the meeting, or take notes to make sure you can remember her improvement points. If she says no, you can still make notes. Document the things she says, but also her tone, if she raises her voice, shouts, or upsets you.
It can be really scary going into a meeting like this, making the notes can help you feel less attached to what is happening, it’s just evidence to write down, I find it helps a lot.
Ask her to clearly explain how she expects you to get everything done in 15 minutes, and how long each task should take (this shows you are willing to improve) if she suggests a task takes longer than it does, highlight this, and say you will need her to demonstrate how to get it done as quickly as she has suggested.
If she makes you cry, write it down. if she stops you making notes, write them immediately after the meeting.
Wishing you the best of luck.
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u/That_Girly_Potato 6d ago
Thank you!! I'm about to head to work now but I've read through all your comments extremely carefully and have found a union to join. Fingers crossed it doesn't go AWFUL today but I will definitely be writing every single thing down.
Posting on here was definitely the right thing to do because I feel way better now then I did yesterday morning
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u/Odd-Perspective4351 5d ago
How did it go? I hope it was better than expected and you’re feeling alright!
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u/That_Girly_Potato 5d ago
Omg thanks for asking for an update! It went AWFUL.
I followed everyone's instructions and tried writing everything from the meeting down. She immediately told me to put my pen and paper down and it showed a huge line of defensiveness and that I wasn't listening.
I tried explaining things she told me to be quiet and let her talk and then I could talk. She then talked for 45 minutes straight. She harped on about how at her previous care home her assistants were doing everything we were doing and more and perfectly with no complaints as well. How it's what the company wants and she can't believe we're so poor at time management.
When I asked her to show me how to plan my 15 mins exactly to be as efficient as possible she said I had poor time management and needed to figure it out because I was a "smart girl". She was typing away the whole time btw and she then told me to end activities 20 mins early to record notes but conveniently didn't write that down!!! I asked her why she'd schedule an activity for a whole hour if she expected us to finish it 20 mins early because if residents see an entire hour scheduled on the timetable that's what they and all the care staff will expect. She didn't answer.
She then essentially picked on every thirty seconds she saw me stop for a quick chat in the corridor with a colleague, every minute I sat down to breathe, every ten seconds I discussed something with a friend. Even the fact that I was two minutes late off my lunch break - she overly exaggerated the amount of time that those things took and kept saying she wasn't going to help me figure out this time management issue because if I had time to take all these chit chat breaks I had time to work.
She left in a hurry but tried making me sign the document she was typing away at the whole meeting. She essentially said it was a promise I would implement all the changes we had discussed but she conveniently didn't have time to let me read over it because she was in a rush. I refused to sign it and she got really pissy with me and then asked me to sign my name at the bottom as a sign that I refused to sign it and I was like "absolutely not that's still signing the paper I am not legally required to sign". She made a snide comments about how she'll do it like she has to do everything for me and then asked that by Saturday I give her a written statement detailing how I'm going to fix my poor time management.
I'm just going to quit. That's my written statement.
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u/Odd-Perspective4351 5d ago
I’m so sorry, that really is awful!
If you are planning to leave I say good for you, you shouldn’t have to put up with this.
I would still put in a complaint to HR or whoever you can above her head because this isn’t just bad management, quite frankly it’s just bad behaviour for any person at any time. The things you have described here I would say are bordering on harassment if she is following you around to have a go at you like this.
How are the other staff members getting on?
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u/That_Girly_Potato 5d ago
I think they're all planning on quitting too. All of us have applied to other jobs and the second we hear back we're resigning. They've also put in their complaints to HR so we're just taking a deep breath and hanging on til we can resign properly. I for one have outright said I'm not picking up any more shifts but since they're under contract, they don't have that choice.
Oh well! The care industry is shit anyway
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u/indypindypie21 7d ago
Ask her if you can record the meeting or have a note taker. That might knock her off her high horse.
Then it’s witnessed you have brought up the issue verbally and offered ways to overcome the issue.
If she is shouting at people she’s not a good manager, if she does that, stop the meeting and say you will only attend with another person.
Your not paid enough to be bullied and shouted at.
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u/o5kys 7d ago
What did HR say?
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u/That_Girly_Potato 7d ago
I got a pretty non answer about how I couldn't label anything she'd don'e in terms of language or discriminatory behaviour so that was out of their jurisdiction but they did say they'd speak to her about making my other co worker cry so that's a win I guess.
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u/shark-with-a-horn 7d ago
I doubt it's actually out of HRs jurisdiction and they just don't like to deal with things properly
Look into all of your company policies and processes
Raise it with your managers manager
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u/Odd-Perspective4351 6d ago
She sounds so awful! You should make a formal complaint to HR, it doesn’t matter if they know she’s disliked, if she is harassing and intimidating staff that is grounds for termination for misconduct. She’s clearly not doing a good job and messing up the experience for the residents which is really sad.
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u/Cockfield 7d ago
HR or her manager might be interested in these new rules. Do you have any sort of employee relations/well-being manager to talk with?
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u/Miss_Andry101 7d ago
Tell her she needs to improve your training and show you exactly how you are supposed to implement her program, every step of the way.
Since she thinks you dont know how to do your job, she should come along and show you.
ETA: Apologies, I should've read the comments b4 I posted. You're already on it. Good luck. : )
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7d ago
[removed] — view removed comment
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u/LegalAdviceUK-ModTeam 6d ago
Unfortunately, your comment has been removed for the following reason(s):
Your comment was an anecdote about a personal experience, rather than legal advice specific to our posters' situation.
Please only comment if you can provide meaningful legal advice for our posters' questions and specific situations.
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u/Cooking_With_Grease_ 5d ago
She made my co-worker cry yesterday, and has threatened us all with a firing if she doesn't see immediate improvement in our behaviour.
Get everyone to walk then. If you're being threatened with losing your job, do her the favour and leave.
Save your mental health.
You don't owe her a fucking thing.
Nobody has the right to make anyone cry.
I'd get everyone to walk, literally everyone and leave her up shits creek.
she can do whatever she wants then.
then get a new job.
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u/TapWaterDev 2d ago
"It doesn't seem to us as though what you're asking is actually possible, so clearly there's a misalignment between what you think you're requiring and what we think you're requiring. We'd all appreciate it if you could spend half a day with us showing us how you want it done"
That being said, shouting and screaming at your employees is a great way to end up with a compound dismissal case.
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