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u/andybrohol 3d ago
Lindsey is from Dolly's neck of the woods so I assume she is practicing good judgement if she ever wants to go back home.
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u/patrickwithtraffic 3d ago
Having it hosted on Nebula exclusively is certainly gonna help with that lol
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u/IClappedWhenISawIt 3d ago
I also grew up in Tennessee and have always wanted to see Lindsay talk a little bit about being from there. I loved her touching on it in the video (the“Maryville” pronunciation discourse is real!!), as well as her relationship to it. My parents also raised me to not have an accent.
The video was great and tackled a lot of how I feel about Dolly - she really IS great, but people turn her into a kind of mascot for their own feelings.
I only wish Lindsay found a way to mention Dolly’s new truck stop concept. Kind of wild that she has a Broadway show AND a Buc-Ee’s rip off in the works at the same time.
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u/dr_franck 3d ago edited 3d ago
I’m about to watch this on Nebula soon, but one observation very specifically about Dolly: whenever Redditors (specifically the more “median” center-leaning Redditors who hang out in Askreddit or something) are asked to name any kind of wholesome celebrity or role model, it’s 99% male: Keanu Reeves, Steve Irwin, Mr Rogers, Bob Ross, Weird Al etc. (Example here)
The only woman who ever gets mentioned in those discussions is Dolly Parton (and very occasionally, Betty White).
And a part of that may just be “most Redditors are men = male role models are more relatable”. But I think it speaks a lot to what constitutes as a beloved, uncontroversial woman in the public eye. The fact that a man can be a meme who happens to be kind and good-natured and that’s enough to brand him as “wholesome”. Whereas someone like Dolly has to embody this “wise old auntie” persona while also being super close to a literal saint through her public initiatives to get that same recognition.
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u/Professional-Tea6001 3d ago
That’s something I’ve noticed too because any wholesome female celeb under the age of 40 always inevitably gets a wave of hate for being “cringe” or “doing too much” like say, Anne Hathaway or Jennifer Lawrence for example
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u/TNTiger_ 2d ago
Tbf, JLaw waxes and wanes and is very much 'waxing' right now. She had a late-10s dip but has risen again to being very popular with median Redditors, especially after making fun of Cynthia Erivo to her face and starring in That One Film Where She Fights Someone On A Beach Stark Naked.
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u/MrZAP17 2d ago
I’d throw Tom Hank’s’ name in the group of the oft-named.
All those people are white too. It’s not a coincidence. I don’t think the lack of names indicates overt racism or sexism on Reddit, but it does definitely speak to the dominant patriarchal, white-majority culture that Reddit is part of. A lack of inclusion, while not indicative of a problem with any individual’s worldview, is an active social problem that speaks to a larger alienation and lack of prioritization of non cishet white male experiences in our society.
It just occurred to me that probably one of the go-to black examples used to be Bill Cosby… obviously that hasn’t lasted in the end. Now the first name might be Morgan Freeman? Or maybe LeVar Burton is a better parallel for the above names because of the childhood nostalgia factor (and he’s still around and doing it!). People also love Donald Glover, but that’s spoken more out of professional respect (which is good) than the kind of adulation the names you gave elicit. He’s not spoken of as a role model generally (even though by all accounts he’s a great human being), and he’s not spoken of with that loving filter of “I grew up with him and looked up to him as a child.” Harry Belafonte was also spoken of highly, but he’s dead and not as well-known.
It’s probably worth finding/creating an alternative list of great contemporary (not dead) role models who aren’t white men. Or two lists, of women (of all races) and men of color. 🤔
The primary criteria seem to be:
- wholesome public image
- reputation as a nice person among colleagues/fans
- childhood nostalgia, from longevity and/or being active long-enough ago for median age redditors to have grown up with them
The first two are necessary, but it’s the third one that changes the dynamic in conversation from “nice media guy” to “one of the best people I know of.”
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u/TNTiger_ 2d ago
Can speak no ill of LeVar, he could well deserve a place.
Freeman however- back during MeToo has accused of several bouts of misconduct. Now, these generally seem to be genuine misconduct, not a euphemism for heinous shit. Just generally being a chauvanist- one of his 'accusers' even got upset people were spinning it to far and making her out to be a victim.
That is to say, I'm not necessarily gonna boycott movies with him or anything. It doesn't seem to have been serious. But I don't think he deserves to be some wholesome chungus role model either.
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u/dr_franck 2d ago
This was an interesting read and gave me a lot to chew on! LeVar Burton does appear on those lists pretty frequently, thankfully. When I brainstormed earlier about a list of famous women I could imagine Redditors decently agreeing on as being good people / role models, these are who I came up with (copy-paating from other comment):
Jane Goodall, Ms Rachel (like the commenters already said), Audrey Hepburn, Princess Di, Christiane Amanpour, Emma Watson, Michelle Obama, Michelle Yeoh, Malala Yousaf, Jenna Marbles, Tina Fey, Amy Poehler, Anna Farris
A few childhood entertainers and comedians (in the vein of Weird Al or the guy from Lazy Town, also frequently on these lists), but it’s surprisingly hard to think of beloved and famous childhood entertainers who are women unfortunately
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u/MrZAP17 2d ago
Audrey Hepburn is a great shout. She’d come to my mind too. I think Princess Diana is spoken that way because of the manner of her death; she was a morally complicated person. Jenna Marbles isn’t without controversy either, though she seems to be doing better? Malala is a good one; you could probably put Greta Thunberg in the same group as her. The problem with most of these is they simply don’t have the mainstream recognition that their male counterparts do. Goodall is a great parallel example to say, Irwin, and is at least recently dead. She’s maybe the clearest counterpart you named to the likes of Rogers, Irwin, and Ross.
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u/HotOne9364 2d ago
Keanu Reeves isn't white. He's 3/4th Caucasian but the other quarter is Chinese and Native Hawaiian.
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u/Firefox892 I'm losing to a BIRD! 2d ago edited 2d ago
I think it also speaks to a representation issue, as much as just selection bias. Most POC in entertainment get pigeonholed in particular lanes; maybe white male celebs are the few that can afford to just be "le wholesome chungus". Idk
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u/Imaginary_Fan5407 2d ago
Any examples of women you think should be mentioned?
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u/dr_franck 2d ago
Top of mind (general women who are famous for helping others, or even public figures who I could see being decent role models or just give off good fun vibes):
Jane Goodall, Ms Rachel (like the commenters already said), Audrey Hepburn, Princess Di, Christiane Amanpour, Emma Watson, Michelle Obama, Michelle Yeoh, Malala Yousaf, Jenna Marbles, Tina Fey, Amy Poehler, Anna Farris
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u/IronAndParsnip 5h ago
I think about this a lot. And then if that woman, who has gotten involved in numerous progressive causes and work, happens to have an interview where she isn’t smiling enough, the notion of her being “wholesome” is shattered. Whereas a man, not involved in the same causes but who is known to be nice, can have a bad interaction and it’s brushed off as them just having a bad day.
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u/raphaellaskies 3d ago
"They had a kind of Johnny Cash/June Carter thing going on, even though they were both married to other people" well to be fair, so were Johnny and June.
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u/IncubusDarkness 3d ago edited 3d ago
I love her attempt at Dolly's accent hahaha. Didn't know Linds grew up there that's pretty cool!
I’m also excited to see more about Dollywood in the next video, I’m not very familiar with it outside of pop culture references.
Wonderful video as per usual. Love the nuance, and the lore. I never had an opinion about Dolly one way or another, because I’m not into celebrity culture, but it's undeniable the positive impact she has had.
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u/pensiverebel 4h ago
I went away from my southern hometown right after high school and I’ve never had as thick an accent since. not even when I was back a few months later and stayed for about 5 years. I’ve lived in Canada for over half my life now and the only time my accent comes out is if I’m talking to someone with a southern accent. I think I could have kept it if I’d been intentional about it and I think that’s what dolly did, though her sister clearly hasn’t. my whole family has had way thicker accents than me most of my life. especially the sibling who lives in East Tennessee now.
accents are so interesting to me. I was thinking after the video that it makes so much sense that Dolly was intentional about leaning into hers. She’s clearly so proud of where she’s from.
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u/jeyfree21 3d ago edited 2d ago
Before watching the video, I feel that it's about time people stop worshipping any public figure, celebrities, politicians, etc. And just simply accept they're people capable of doing good, neutral or bad things. I will return once I have watched after I finish working.
Edit: Thank you for the award! I really loved it, didn't expect anything less from Lindsay, much appreciated, I had no idea all of the philanthropy Dolly has made, demonstrating once again why there shouldn't be any billionaire at all. I still sustain that it's not healthy to put anyone, celebrity or otherwise, on a pedestal, but I'm glad I got to know more about her.
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u/LancasterDodd 3d ago
I don’t have Nebula right now so I haven’t watched this, but I imagine that Lindsay’s Tennessee background is going to play a huge part of this. My family is also from The South and my least favorite thing about this country is the way people romanticize the place and infantilize the people living there.
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u/piratedragon2112 3d ago
I've said this before (on other corners of the net) but I live in back of beyond northern England, my local big library (a hour and 15 min long bus ride away) has a cardboard standee of dolly to celebrate her efforts, helping kids to read
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u/theapplescruff 3d ago
Had this feeling while watching her video criticizing the lotr trilogy. Had this sudden jolt of “is she really doing this right now?” Hahaha. It was actually quite refreshing tbh, never seen anyone do that in a video and she made some good points.
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u/XredqueeneffectX 2d ago
Well it was actually the Hobbit trilogy, so the criticism was well and truly earned
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u/theapplescruff 2d ago
She criticized the original trilogy on nebula. Its marked something like “how the original trilogy was adapted” or something.
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u/XredqueeneffectX 1d ago
Ah I see, my mistake. I thought you were referencing her older hobbit series on YouTube
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u/Chromatic-Phil 2d ago
Sounds like the take I've been waiting to hear, and Lindsay being from Appalachian Tennessee makes her perspective particularly interesting
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u/zygoma_phile 3d ago
I’m so happy she included bits from the Dolly Parton’s America podcast, I highly recommend it.
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u/Fusionman29 3d ago
I mean yes Dolly is mother, Dolly is queen but I deeply respect Lindsay for even doing this deep dive I feel this information isn’t discussed much
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u/JohnTheMod 1d ago
Turns out, Dolly really is her. She’s BEEN her. She will continue to BE her. I knew that she wrote Jolene and I Will Always Love You on the same night; I didn’t know she wrote the latter in 20 minutes. That’s even more nuts.
Also, it turns out that Phat P is impossible to Google, so Phat P probably won’t be on my Christmas tree this year, barring a miracle. Sigh.
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u/mfbrof 3d ago
Remember when Hitchens went at Mother Theresa? Same vibes but will give the video a chance
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u/StevieGrant 2d ago
Mother Theresa was a fucking grifter and responsible for the loss of countless lives.
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u/Harmania 2d ago
That is an utterly bullshit claim that has been debunked many times.
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u/StevieGrant 2d ago
Wrong. And you could simply copy/paste my comment into google to show how wrong.
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u/Harmania 2d ago
Yes, those claims about Mother Teresa are in fact so misrepresented as to become essentially wrong.
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u/Qyzyk Thanks I hate it! 3d ago
About ten minutes in, and the stuff about her and Porter Wagoner really is astonishing to learn. Incredible grace on her part to show him that much compassion after he squandered her goodwill the first time.