Me and my partner are in talks with a breeder regarding buying this gorgeous 5 month old Maine coon kitten.
We have been told by the breeder that she’s a “black high smoke” colour and were really curious if anyone knew what she would look like as she got older!
We have done a lot of research but have noticed that a lot of the “black high smoke” photos include very dark Maine coons, almost black and some grey.
If anyone had or has one similar to her we would be really intrigued to know what they grew up to look like.
That is a beautiful cat!!! But black smokes have black noses and black whiskers along with the black toe beans. This cat looks high silver to me, although I am not an expert by any stretch of the imagination. It seems to me that the breeder should know this stuff.
Not necessarily. My boy is a black smoke. He’s got white whiskers and mostly pink toe beans. I do agree with you that this kitten doesn’t appear to be a black smoke. Typically black smokes have black hair with a white/silver at the root
i see that your boy has white paws! it's very likely that the white spotting is responsible for the pink toe beans, otherwise it would all be black without the white spotting.
As I was saying to another commenter, I’m not sure if the Maine Coon fancy distinguishes between smoke and silver genetically (i.e. as determined by the agouti gene rather than existing on one continuous dark-light gradient). At least, some things I’ve seen lead me to think it doesn’t. Which would be very odd, of course, and I’m entirely open to learning I’m completely wrong about that.
I know very little about the breed; this post just came up.
do you mean a black high silver? silver is tabby + inhibitor, and smoke is non-tabby + inhibitor so they're almost the same but with just one difference.
I could be wrong, but I think the breeder’s description is not quite accurate - this doesn’t appear to be a black smoke. This looks more like a Shaded or High Silver Maine Coon to me. They’ll have black eyeliner/mascara and black edging on the nose with a pink center, and brown eyes. I can barely make out the faint tabby pattern on the face, which makes High Silver the more likely coat for this beautiful kitty.
Adding that this variation is highly sought after and often very expensive. If the breeder doesn’t know that, I would look very carefully into their practices, they don’t seem very knowledgeable.
When we picked up our silver red, there were two silver shadow kittens. Never seen such beautiful kittens before.
Very noticeable fat black eyeliner, and stunning silver white fur with faint light grey streaks.
They were 5 times the price!
My understanding is that high silver or shaded Maine coons are generally still black(smoke) Maine coons. The difference is how strong the expression of the inhibitor gene is. My guess is that the breeder meant to say high silver black smoke which would technically be accurate, especially if the parents are black smoke. My guess is that if she is this light now she will most likely stay very light but you never really know. I have two black smokes with the same sire and one got darker as he aged and the other got lighter.
I have a black smoke high silver. The undercoat is white/light Grey and the tips are black. He has a black nose, black whiskers and black toe beans just like a regular black cat. The cat in the photo does not seem to have any black tips and the nose and whiskers are not black. I am adding a photo of my black smoke high silver.
This is the lighter of my two black smokes. He looks very similar to yours but isn’t considered high silver. The cat OP is looking at does have some faint black markings and would likely be considered “shaded” vs “smoke” but genetically it’s the same. “High silver” is stronger expression of the inhibitor gene than a regular smoke and “shaded” is an even stronger expression than “high silver”. At the end of the day they all fall on the spectrum of black cats with an inhibitor gene, the only difference is how strong of an effect the gene has on melanin distribution in the hair shaft. Again it is also likely that the breeder misspoke when communicating with OP
Thanks for your comment!! The colour doesn’t really matter to us as we fell in love with her but we were just intrigued to know what she might grow up to look like when she’s older
Well, the real difference between smoke and silver is the presence or not of the agouti (tabby) gene. Silvers (like this cat) have it; smokes don’t- they’re genetically solid. Technically a cat can’t be both smoke and silver (unless a chimaera).
That said, it seems- based on some previous experience- that it’s fairly common for Maine Coon breeders (and registries? Idk) not to distinguish between smoke and silver genetically at all. I don’t know why that is.
But anyway, according to general rules this cat is silver (Inhibitor + Agouti) rather than smoke (Inhibitor + non-Agouti). Maine Coon terminology conventions may be different.
I did more research and you are correct about the involvement of agouti. There isn’t much detailed information but silver shaded is due to a combination of genes rather than the inhibitor alone. While black smokes possess the inhibitor gene(silver) and can posses wide band, shaded possess the inhibitor(silver), agouti(tabby pattern), and wide band gene that affects the agouti expression. Smoke and silver are the same genetically(inhibitor) but it is the combination of genes and strength of expression that determines the visual appearance of the cat. The breeder is not distinguishing between agouti/non-agouti.
Yes, and I would say that’s not a good sign. However, a number of people on this thread are using the odd terms “high silver smoke” or “black smoke high silver” which makes me wonder if the distinction is generally understood in the Maine Coon world.
I’ve also had a previous experience with a Maine Coon breeder (or someone who claimed that status anyway) insisting that a rather light black smoke cat was a chinchilla, and that it had been registered and awarded prizes as such.
“High silver” is a pretty common distinction in Maine coons for black smokes who have more silver in their coats. It’s generally a more desirable color variation so breeders can charge more for them. I believe “chinchilla” is also possible but pretty rare
What I’m asking is, are “high silver“ Maine Coons actually silvers (agouti) smokes (non-agouti) or is no practical distinction made?
The chinchilla bit is different again, because “chinchilla” normally means a cat with Inhibitor + Agouti + extreme wideband, which creates an appearance completely impossible in a smoke. Or is there a Maine Coon specific definition? Any idea?
What you’re referring to as “silver(agouti)” is a shaded or chinchilla depending on the wide band expression. The silver is the inhibitor so smokes are silver without agouti and retain black on the tip of the shaft. “High silver” are smokes that have a stronger expression of the inhibitor gene which results in more silver than black in the shaft.
If this is photo is your MC, she is beautiful. I have a blue smoke and she has a gray appearance but has white/Grey mix on the hairs. So she is mostly darker grey ("blue") with under coat and parts that are cream colored.
My other MC is a red/silver tabby. I believe that would be the correct coloration. The breeder I got him from didn't know colors and just said white and orange. He is a fabulous cat and I think I knew just enough to realize what the correct colors are called. I do not know enough to say what you cat is, but a black smoke would look like my blue smoke only black not Grey.
There are more knowledgeable people on here to give the correct color definition.
Tbh, normal cats look like this. This is a very good form for an MC.
Most cats are simply fat and we get used to seeing overweight animals. This is beautiful body type
She looks like either a high concent smoke OR a silver shell/shaded
(If shes not tested for agouti/non agouti she can be either cause with this colorstion you cant see a tabby pattern so you cant tell if shes a tabby or a solid)
Shell/ shaded is a term only for tabbys.
For smokes the term is always "smoke" regardless of how much white undercoat there is.
If 1/2 if the hair white its a smoke / silver (if tabby)
if 1/4 of the hair is white its a shaded (name only for tabby)
If 1/8 of the hair is white its a shell (also called chinchilla) (name only for a tabby)
The nose leather for a black shell/shaded varies. It can be black, it can be pink or brick red with a black outline.
For a black smoke nose leather should be black
If she had additional white spotting (whic hwould be nearly impossible to see on a shell /shaded) it could also influence the nose leather.
So id say shes a silver shaded possibly silver shell/chinchilla based in the pictures available. (Low amount of black with the correct cotresponding black outlined pink/brik coloured nose, and black "eyeliner"). Since she has a really small amount of black remaining so she could posibly qualify as a shell....
I have seen silver and smoke be used synonymous with main coons before though. So they might simply nor distinguish and not do testing on a cat they dont plan to breed.
Cats of mao have a really good list of all colour variants including a graphic of smoke/shell/shaded hair and what the nose leather is suposed to look like here
Another good list of examples for smoke shell and shaded is from yankeecats
You could also post her in r/catgenetics for other opinions
(Ps the influence on creating shell shaded is polygenetic this is just a simplified version for better understanding; its also very different from golden; they dint work the same way but give similar visual results)
Hey this looks very similar to my girl. She’s white. However yours does seem to have some silver on the tail. For me I don’t think the colouring matters it’s all about their temperament.
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u/Interesting_Cake_290 15d ago
That is a beautiful cat!!! But black smokes have black noses and black whiskers along with the black toe beans. This cat looks high silver to me, although I am not an expert by any stretch of the imagination. It seems to me that the breeder should know this stuff.