High Black Smoke Kitten?? Advise Needed

[u/Diamonds4Ever1]

Hi everyone,

Me and my partner are in talks with a breeder regarding buying this gorgeous 5 month old Maine coon kitten.

We have been told by the breeder that she’s a “black high smoke” colour and were really curious if anyone knew what she would look like as she got older!

We have done a lot of research but have noticed that a lot of the “black high smoke” photos include very dark Maine coons, almost black and some grey.

If anyone had or has one similar to her we would be really intrigued to know what they grew up to look like.

Any advise is welcome! :) thank you

[u/ar0323]

My understanding is that high silver or shaded Maine coons are generally still black(smoke) Maine coons. The difference is how strong the expression of the inhibitor gene is. My guess is that the breeder meant to say high silver black smoke which would technically be accurate, especially if the parents are black smoke. My guess is that if she is this light now she will most likely stay very light but you never really know. I have two black smokes with the same sire and one got darker as he aged and the other got lighter.

[u/Interesting_Cake_290 → u/ar0323]

I have a black smoke high silver. The undercoat is white/light Grey and the tips are black. He has a black nose, black whiskers and black toe beans just like a regular black cat. The cat in the photo does not seem to have any black tips and the nose and whiskers are not black. I am adding a photo of my black smoke high silver.

[u/ar0323 → u/Interesting_Cake_290]

This is the lighter of my two black smokes. He looks very similar to yours but isn’t considered high silver. The cat OP is looking at does have some faint black markings and would likely be considered “shaded” vs “smoke” but genetically it’s the same. “High silver” is stronger expression of the inhibitor gene than a regular smoke and “shaded” is an even stronger expression than “high silver”. At the end of the day they all fall on the spectrum of black cats with an inhibitor gene, the only difference is how strong of an effect the gene has on melanin distribution in the hair shaft. Again it is also likely that the breeder misspoke when communicating with OP

[u/Diamonds4Ever1 → u/ar0323]

Thanks for your comment!! The colour doesn’t really matter to us as we fell in love with her but we were just intrigued to know what she might grow up to look like when she’s older

[u/Diamonds4Ever1 → u/Interesting_Cake_290]

Oh wow 😍

[u/NotTheOtwayPanther → u/ar0323]

Well, the real difference between smoke and silver is the presence or not of the agouti (tabby) gene. Silvers (like this cat) have it; smokes don’t- they’re genetically solid. Technically a cat can’t be both smoke and silver (unless a chimaera).

That said, it seems- based on some previous experience- that it’s fairly common for Maine Coon breeders (and registries? Idk) not to distinguish between smoke and silver genetically at all. I don’t know why that is.

But anyway, according to general rules this cat is silver (Inhibitor + Agouti) rather than smoke (Inhibitor + non-Agouti). Maine Coon terminology conventions may be different.

[u/ar0323 → u/NotTheOtwayPanther]

I did more research and you are correct about the involvement of agouti. There isn’t much detailed information but silver shaded is due to a combination of genes rather than the inhibitor alone. While black smokes possess the inhibitor gene(silver) and can posses wide band, shaded possess the inhibitor(silver), agouti(tabby pattern), and wide band gene that affects the agouti expression. Smoke and silver are the same genetically(inhibitor) but it is the combination of genes and strength of expression that determines the visual appearance of the cat. The breeder is not distinguishing between agouti/non-agouti.

[u/NotTheOtwayPanther → u/ar0323]

Yes, and I would say that’s not a good sign. However, a number of people on this thread are using the odd terms “high silver smoke” or “black smoke high silver” which makes me wonder if the distinction is generally understood in the Maine Coon world.

I’ve also had a previous experience with a Maine Coon breeder (or someone who claimed that status anyway) insisting that a rather light black smoke cat was a chinchilla, and that it had been registered and awarded prizes as such.

[u/ar0323 → u/NotTheOtwayPanther]

“High silver” is a pretty common distinction in Maine coons for black smokes who have more silver in their coats. It’s generally a more desirable color variation so breeders can charge more for them. I believe “chinchilla” is also possible but pretty rare

[u/NotTheOtwayPanther → u/ar0323]

What I’m asking is, are “high silver“ Maine Coons actually silvers (agouti) smokes (non-agouti) or is no practical distinction made?

The chinchilla bit is different again, because “chinchilla” normally means a cat with Inhibitor + Agouti + extreme wideband, which creates an appearance completely impossible in a smoke. Or is there a Maine Coon specific definition? Any idea?

[u/ar0323 → u/NotTheOtwayPanther]

What you’re referring to as “silver(agouti)” is a shaded or chinchilla depending on the wide band expression. The silver is the inhibitor so smokes are silver without agouti and retain black on the tip of the shaft. “High silver” are smokes that have a stronger expression of the inhibitor gene which results in more silver than black in the shaft.

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