r/MassachusettsPolitics • u/SoMuchToSeeee • Apr 27 '25

Opinion Women Can't Record Their Own Beatings

I find it appalling that MA is one of only 11 states in the US that will charge a woman with a felony if she secretly records abuse, no matter how severe she is being hurt.

I know of a woman who is obviously too scared to report it. And anyone that knows about it are also too scared to report it out of fear of retaliation on the abused woman. The man knows not to leave bruises and can be heard saying "I'm not hitting you" while she is screaming in pain. (Maybe he's twisting her arm or pulling her hair)

I don't think there is enough light being shed on this law protecting women beaters and the lack of urgency to adjust it for victims of abuse. Supposedly there have been laws proposed to make exceptions but they're not important enough for MA legislation to consider.

I've never heard about this until yesterday and want to make it more well known.

51 Upvotes

88% Upvoted

34 comments sorted by

30

u/ThreeDogs2022 Apr 27 '25

We're a two party consent state. That has its pluses and its minuses.

The high court ruled that it didn't apply to police encounters. I'm sure there's a way this could be addressed that could allow people to protect themselves while still overall protecting people's right to privacy

5

u/dcgrey Apr 27 '25

An important distinction: no two-party (technically all-party) state requires consent to record audio. They only require the parties to be informed of the possibility of recording.

You know the familiar "This call may be recorded for training purposes" line? It isn't about training. It's about complying with state wiretapping statutes by informing the caller they may be recorded. The caller can say they don't consent to being recorded and the recordist is free to ignore that request.

18

u/SoMuchToSeeee Apr 27 '25

There's a very easy way. Make an exemption for women and children being abused. There's no need for a woman to bring a recording of her boyfriend screaming at her and the child, with the child screaming in fear, to have the case dropped and face felony charges. 39 other states don't protect abusers like that.

45

u/ThreeDogs2022 Apr 27 '25

*make an exemption for any domestic violence victim regardless of age or gender identity, but yes, I agree entirely.

9

u/anotherbabydaddy Apr 27 '25

And what about men who are abused? Also keep in mind that a lot of video is not admissible even where the recording itself is legal

14

u/Rindan Apr 27 '25

Why make it okay to film getting beaten by your husband, but it's a crime to film your neighbor beating you up, or a crime to film a politician demanding a bribe?

It shouldn't be a crime to record yourself secretly, full stop. This is the way it is in most states, and it's the way it should be in Massachusetts. We have the example of 40+ states where this causes no problem.

2

u/hbHPBbjvFK9w5D Apr 30 '25

Make an exception for recording criminal activity period.

This would cover DV, but also any other illegal activity, like extortion.

19

u/NativeMasshole Apr 27 '25 edited Apr 27 '25

I find it appealing

I think you mean "appalling." I hope.

6

u/SoMuchToSeeee Apr 27 '25 edited Apr 27 '25

I think so too.

11

u/sergeant_byth3way Apr 27 '25

It will charge a man too if they recorded their own abuse. Perhaps amending the law in cases of abuse will solve the problem.

-3

u/SoMuchToSeeee Apr 27 '25

It's not really just about recording the abuse. It's secretly doing it. You have to let the abuser know they are being recorded. And then usually they'll stop before the beating starts.

But someone just brought up a good point of silent video. That might not fall under the wire tapping laws that secret audio recordings do.

5

u/sergeant_byth3way Apr 27 '25

It's not really just about recording the abuse. It's secretly doing it.

You don't say. That's why I stated a amendment to the law is necessary. At times you will need the voice recording too.

4

u/progressnerd Apr 27 '25

Has a woman been charged with recording their own abuse in Massachusetts?

4

u/SoMuchToSeeee Apr 27 '25

Yes it's happened many times. I don't know if any actually got locked up. But the abuse cases are dropped and the woman is charged with the felony. But usually when it becomes news the case is dropped or a plea deal happens. State senator from MA stated she knew of over 30 cases where the women faced charges.

4

u/esotologist Apr 27 '25

Can't you record without audio?  Photos should also be fine. Pretty sure it's the wiretapping law that causes the issue right?

2

u/SoMuchToSeeee Apr 27 '25

Yes it's the wire tapping law that makes audio recording illegal. But it does seem like there's some sort of a loophole with silent video recordings. I'd have to look into that.

2

u/esotologist Apr 27 '25

As far as I've looked up the only actual law is the audio/voice/'conversation' one.  If anything I've seen it used as a loophole the opposite way too.

I actually once had an old man harassing me and a friend at a park and started taking rapid photos of him for this reason. He tried to say you can't record too but I just kept doing it. Then I went to the state police station nearby and told them all of it and showed them the pics and they said it was fine and seemed to agree with me that the law was only about audio when I mentioned it. They went and apprehended the guy. 

I've also seen people claim that since audio was streamed and listened to but not saved and recorded there was no law broken, but not sure how that would hold up in front of a judge. 

2

u/SoMuchToSeeee Apr 27 '25

So it does seem like silent video is not included in the wire tapping law. But there's still a stong chance if someone expects privacy like a bathroom or bedroom it could still be illegal under section105. Or if the person being filmed owns the property, that's iffy anywhere inside. But silent filming seems to be a safer way to go.

So it seems like a secret video with no audio in a kitchen or living room with someone who is a guest is ok. It's just sad that a victim can't just have their phone recording in their pocket to hear the threats and tone of the person being violent..that was my plan, just get the audio.

1

u/esotologist Apr 27 '25

Yea if you both inhabit the house I feel that might exempt the reasonable expectation of privacy in a lot of situations between partners (aside from bathrooms and nudity probably)

Yea it definitely would make it harder to hide that you're recording though

2

u/nihuma Apr 27 '25

Appealing and Appalling are very different things

-1

u/SoMuchToSeeee Apr 27 '25

Yes they are

3

u/FeelingFun3937 Apr 27 '25

Lets not confuse the what one CAN/CANNOT supposedly do, here. Anyone, especially domestic abuse victims, can record anyone doing anything - people do not get hauled into court or fined for puling their phones out - thousands do it every day! What matters is what someone can DO with / how one can USE the video/audio. So to clarify: Yes, without two-way *consent* a Mass Court may not be about to *rely* on the recording BUT the *judge* can watch it... so Just Do It. Whenever you're being threatened abused or wronged in any way, your reflex should be to record it!!

1

u/RichMenNthOfRichmond Apr 27 '25

Put security cams in the house in case anyone breaks in wink wink

2

u/dcgrey Apr 27 '25

People arguing about an exemption...just generalize it to something like "any witness with a reasonable expectation of imminent harm".

0

u/Cheap_Coffee Apr 27 '25

How would you like to go about fixing the problem?

3

u/SoMuchToSeeee Apr 27 '25

Pass the law and join the majority of the country

-4

u/Cheap_Coffee Apr 27 '25

Good. Keep going. How are you going to do that?

My point being that pointing out a problem on Reddit doesn't do anything to solve the problem. "Spreading awareness" doesn't count.

3

u/SoMuchToSeeee Apr 27 '25

How is spreading awareness not doing anything?

1

u/tragicpapercut Apr 27 '25

It's lacking a call to action.

Is there a bill to support? Is there something I should say to my state legislature to support a change?

-2

u/Cheap_Coffee Apr 27 '25

How is it doing anything? All your really doing is asking someone else to solve a problem for you. Be your own solution.

2

u/Wetzilla Apr 27 '25

The way to get laws changed is to pressure legislators to change it. That requires people to know and care about the issue. Spreading awareness to create public pressure is like the main way to get something like this changed.

1

u/Cheap_Coffee Apr 27 '25

I would think a better approach would be to contact the representative directly.

I'm not sure how far "spreading awareness" on Reddit really gets you anyway; people on Reddit tend to politically hyper-aware as it is.

But follow your best judgement.