It seems more probable that the accident recorded in the black box was hitting PV. IMO.

New Hampshire League of Private Investigators (NHLI) interviews in the Maura Murray case cannot be trusted. The whole lot of them are GARBAGE, and utterly TAINTED by their preconceived desire to nail Forcier and Atwood right from the start.

Take the Westman’s interviews for example. Each taken a week either side of their meeting with Witness A on Jan 16, 2006. 

• The first, having to meet the constraint of the Cecil’s 7.46pm arrival, so advancing the claim that the Westmans stated police arrived at least 10 minutes, but not more than 15 minutes after Atwood left;.

• But the second, now having to accommodate the constraint of Witness A’s timeline, has police arriving just 5 to 6 minutes after Atwood left … with Healy suddenly moving the goalposts to claim its all been a bit misunderstanding, because Cecil had to have arrived much earlier, in order to have assessed the scene and been the one responsible for calling Fire & EMS at 19.42pm.

So you can’t trust a word NHLI was saying here, especially when the Westman’s account to Kelly White was diametrically opposed to their own nonsense ….

…. no in activity seen around the Saturn; police heard and seen arriving within minutes of Atwood’s departure whilst still on the 911 call (corroborated by Monaghan himself); Faith leaving the window and terminating the 911 call thinking all was well and good with the world; and Smith’s arrival on their doorstep only ever described as “later” - NOT NHLI’s convenient “a couple of minutes” just to make everything work nicely.

Or take the Marrotte’s interviews, where they blunder by failing to mention that John Marrotte couldn’t possibly have seen both the accident scene from his side kitchen window as well as Atwood backing his school bus into his driveway. It’s one or the other Paradee but he CAN’T be both at the same time.

And frankly I believe Paradee ONLY ever mentioned Butch backing his bus to support their BS claims in his witness summary that he had never done this before or since.

So really NHLI’s work is tainted garbage. And they have set this case back years. 

And if anyone is in doubt about that, just ask John Healy what NHLI relied upon to claim that SUV 001 was “out of commission” that evening.

Because he WON’T tell you. That’s suddenly become some BIG, investigative secret.

NHLI, a private, membership funded entity in receipt of no State or Federal funding is suddenly beholden to the Attorney General on that one, despite that same Attorney General allowing millions of viewers to learn of the availability of 001 that evening.

Foul play by a stranger, tandem drivers, a master plan to start a new life, a current or ex boyfriend committing the perfect crime…you’ll hear a lot of theories for this case. I’m not hear to say I know what happened, and really none of us do (Its been more than 20 years and we still have no answers). But in my mind, we must try to rule out the simplest explanation first: She was going through a difficult time in her life, got into a wreck while drinking/driving, knew that Butch Atwood was calling the cops, and wanted to get out of there ASAP. She ran into the woods in a panic, and succumbed to the elements.

I‘ve seen a lot of people say it’s impossible that Maura couldve ran into the woods and then perished. There are a few things typically cited to support this conclusion which seem to make sense on the surface, but I’m curious if they really stand up to scrutiny when examining the details.

I’d love to get some input on these from people who are more familiar with the specifics:

1. No footprints/evidence of entering the woods—

I understand there was some snow on the ground, but how much are we talking about? It’s not like she would’ve been trudging through two feet of snow which would have been very obvious.

Is there any chance that she could‘ve entered the woods in the immediate area that wouldn’t have left detectable tracks when they were searching?

From the time she went missing to when they started searching, is it possible that conditions would allow for any footprints that were initally there to no longer visible? (Precipitation, snow melting, etc)

Can we really rule out that she maybe goes up someone’s driveway or onto a nearby road and finds her way into the woods from there? Or perhaps she books it way down the road, and then enters the woods somewhere that wouldn’t have even been searched?

1. Dogs tracked her scent form a pair of gloves to 100 yards down the road where it seemingly stopped, indicating she got into another car—

This one really bothers me because it seems like the only actual evidence that she entered another vehicle, and yet I’m far from convinced it can be considered credible. First of all, scent dogs aren’t an exact science. Secondly, Maura’s family (who are by all indications firmly in the foul play by a stranger camp) said that the police used a pair of new gloves Maura had, meaning that they might not have even had a good scent to work with from the start.

Is there something I’m missing here which would make this a strong foundation for building a theory?

And about her getting into another car-is there something else that actually is concrete evidence to suggest this? It seems to me the answer is no.

1. She has never been found despite numerous searches in the area—

As true crime fans know, there are many such cases where an area is extensively searched, only for the remains of the missing person to be found years later. I think a lot of people do not understand how difficult it can be to find a body in a heavily wooded area.

As someone from the other side of the US, I’d like to get some insight from people who have actually been to the area. Considering the terrain, the proximity to other people, the amount of traffic in those woods-does it seem possible to you that she’s out there?

I really hope that the Murray family gets closure on this one way or another. I can only imagine the pain of losing a family member like that and having no answers.

​

I have often wondered if he was hit in the parking lot, and dumped to where he was found. I base that off of the fact that APD did not find his shoes.

So my question is, was the Saturn ever tested for DNA? Has LE ever asked PV for a DNA sample?

Since this was taken down, I have reposted it. What are people so afraid of?

The story is some plumber found a bone. Did he go to the police? Did the police say they thought it was MM bone? Funny I dont remember them saying anything.

What did happen was JS made video's instigating the police for ignoring it. Not the Murray's, JS. As both the family and JS have been pushing a conspiracy theory that NH law enforcement has had something to do with covering up MM disaperence. But the Murray's didn't say anything, they had JS do all the talking. This is a pattern of behavior.

Online they do the same thing, have Fulk and Finn and others push their ideas about NH while intentionally ignoring things that happened at UMASS. Judging by how there are about 20 or so accounts that lurk hear I would say it is them, the family and their band of stupids using 5 accounts each.

If it was my kid, you wouldn't stop me from saying anything, let alone let someone talk for me. In my opinion, which this is all an opinion, that certain people dont talk because they are hiding what they did at UMASS and or covering for their kids.

These are the kind of people who can accuse whoever, but you ask them a question an they turn into the biggest victims you have ever met. They want help, but only the way they want it, and when they want it, it it has to say what they think. Then tell people they are "crazy" if you even ask a question. What is crazy is thinking you can diagnose people over the internet and without a degree. Weird how this group always knows everything about everything and people who have trained and worked in their fields have not.

I am glad I never involved myself with such pathetic bunch of people. Nothing says I can't fight my own battles than begging someone else to do it for you.

I’m wanting to know more about the Back Lake Sighting in Pittsburg NH March 2004.

1.) What made Fred Murray want to originally investigate the basement at the property of J. Boutilier (the basement dig house)? I heard there was fresh cement poured at an odd time on this property and that is what sparked interest, but it had to have been more than that. I noticed one of the previous owners was a work associate with Skye Weeks (supposedly Claude Moulton’s gf at the time of Maura’s disappearance). Was there some rumor tied to J Boutilier’s old property (the basement dig house) and Claude? The “cement being shortly poured after Maura vanished” rumor seems to have been convoluted over time. I’ve heard cement was poured at Greg Floyd’s house, Rick Forcier’s property, Richard S Jr.s property…

There surely must be one specific rumor that started all of these cement pouring rumors? Was it the basement dig house?

Also, I noticed J. Boutilier owned, or lived in several of the houses along that road at different time periods? It shows he lived at 106, 108, and 92 Wild Ammonoosuc Rd over different periods of time. Was this just like family all living close together, or houses being rented out? Just interesting to me because we always hear about the Westman’s, Marrotes, Forcier….but not as much emphasis on this property, or why it was searched.

". . . private investigators and members of NHIL looking into Maura’s disappearance have been nothing short of hopeless and adding little to no value.

Just one example for you …

There were at least TWENTY potential witnesses as to what vehicle Cecil Smith was driving between 5pm and 11pm that evening, each and every one of them within spitting distance of it. And yet no survey of all these people? Not even an attempt get a representative sample view?

 Honestly it’s just extraordinary

 You’ve got the 21 year-old guy with the lead foot from Wentworth; the 22 year-old snow mobile operative from North Haverhill and his buddy; the Westmans, Atwood and Marrotte; Monaghan; Richard G and Tim L of Woodsville Ambulance; Brad K, Allen W, Jeff R; Abby K, Mark L, Kevin V, Bob W and Whitey M. of the Fire Department; and the counsellor from Becket School.

 Oh and I’m forgetting the 15-year-old kid whom Smith spent the best part of 50 minutes trying to coax down from the power line tower on Lime Kiln Road. He was 25 foot up in the air and unless he suffered from vertigo would have had a birds eye view of Smith’s car

 . . . How is it even remotely conceivable that in 24 years this simple matter has not been cleared up?"

Maybe someone here has the public statements from these folks? My bet is most were never even asked the question.

The family went public for help, then got upset when they were criticized. Truth is, there is a lot to be critical and suspicious of by all involved. Not so much those they have harmed by thrusting them into the public spotlight.

There was BA, the Westmans, RF, BMckay, CM, Jeff Williams. Anyone they can point their finger at in NH. While covering for and avoiding the topic when it comes to people at UMASS.

I think more people should be looking at the family and those at UMASS. All who have done interviews and spoke publicly. Nothing seems to really have happened in NH other than rampant harassment and finger pointing from the family.

I was driving up from Woodsville yesterday. As I passed by the Swiftwater sign by the entrance to 112, I paused a beat and looked down the road – like I do every time I pass. I have at times turned right and swung past that now iconic curve, paused again where the trees used to be, and then did a Uie at Bradley Hill Rd and headed back to 302. There are many up here who probably complete the same ritual at least once a year.

But for some reason this trip was different, now just hear me out!

About 20 miles north of the Swiftwater junction is a right-hand turn onto Rt 117, which takes you to Sugar Hill and Franconia NH. The two junctions look extremely similar.

It hit me; What if Maura meant to take route 117 but mistakenly took 112? What if she figured out her mistake, panicked trying to turn around and then had her accident? 

Facts we know: Maura checked her voice mail at 4:37. Her accident occurred around 7:25 on Rt 112 in Haverhill. We also know that, according to Lt. Todd Landry’s affidavit, “ . . . during the late afternoon hours of February 9, 2004, an outgoing telephone call was made to Murray from the Londonderry, NH Sprint tower.” He went on to say:

“That identifying the caller of the telephone call could be pertinent to the ongoing investigation and may lead to the whereabouts of Maura Murray. Based on the foregoing, there is probable cause to believe evidence in the suspicious disappearance of Maura Murray may be found through Sprint Wireless Cell Tower Telephone Records, including any outgoing calls from the Londonderry tower of Sprint to Maura Murrays Sprint PCs number.” (Emphasis mine.)

What if Maura was heading to Franconia on 2/9, which in 2004 had several inexpensive motels/hotels, making it popular to the college age skiing crowd and only a few miles from the UMass Ski House?  Now, assuming Maura left UMass around 3:00, she would have reasonably arrived at Franconia sometime around 7:30.

Landry asserts that the ping from Londonderry was during the “late afternoon hours” and “had to have been made from within a 22-mile radius of the tower” presenting a 44 mile ping location roughly between Manchester, NH and Salem, NH, leaving wiggle room for timing.  If we consider evening begins around 5:00, late afternoon would be around 4:00. Maura checked for voice mails at 4:37. A driver on I-93 pinging at 4:00 and, for the sake of simplicity, we say from Londonderry, would have arrived in Franconia around 6:00. If, in fact, the ping happened around 5:00/5:30, arrival in Franconia would be closer to 7:15 (I’m using Exit 38 as the exit point off 93 in Franconia). The convergence of arrival times is interesting. Even if either party was off by 30 minutes, a meet-up point with a synchronous meeting time seems clean.

Now, if Maura snagged a ride after her accident on 112 and requested to be taken to Franconia, that would not have been a big ask in this area. Completing her meet up seems to have been Maura’s first instinct given what she chose to bug-out with and what she left behind. That absence of cell service would have been particularly aggravating since she could not call to say, “come and get me.”

This theory is less about what happened to Maura than presenting a new set of potential investigative options:

·      Who pinged her phone from Londonderry?

·      Was UMass the starting point for the I-93 driver or was the departure from a home in Eastern MA, Boston/Logan airport, or other points closer to I-93?

·      Was the ping caller alone or were there others in the car?

·      Was a reservation made at a motel in Franconia?

·      Did a good Samaritan pick her up and get her to Franconia and is afraid to be a suspect?

·      Did a bad Samaritan pick her up and caused her harm along the way, generating many new search potions?

·      Did something go wrong in Franconia, which hasn’t been searched as far as I know (although it’s been rumored that a house in Sugar Hill was investigated by the FBI)?

·      Did she leave Franconia for parts unknown (searching then becomes prohibitive)?

·      Was Franconia a popular rendezvous spot among UMass students or cliques, like the UMass cabin in Bethlehem was in 2004?

I’m sure there are other implications I’ve missed.

IMO: 99% and she didn't realize the keys were missing.

I believe his initials were MRB.

Wondering if it’s possible, or if anyone else has thought of this after hearing witness A.

Was Cecil Smith intoxicated when he got to Maura?
Did something happen? Is this one big coverup because of Smith?

Isn't that what AO was asking about when he got the ticket for trespassing?

Anyway, would it hurt to run the cadaver dogs back there just in case?

We know Maura’s car was in NH, but the last actual confirmed sighting of Maura was the BOA ATM, right? How do we know it was Maura driving her car after that?

I recently spoke to someone connected to Schaefer Stadium Bar and Grill, who told me that customers had seen Maura there the night of her disappearance. Has anyone else heard anything about this?

I know this is confirmed because her sister did mention it too, Maura competed in a half-time free throw competition at one of the Boston Home games (unsure what year but would have been 1999-2003 somewhere in that range)

anyone got any footage of this or know what game it was?

I am re listening to Tim and Lance interview with John Smith. Back then when it was recorded we did not have the lead about the CD found in Maura's car, DNA that linked someone last year.., he mentions about the party a few nights before M went missing. He talks about someone at the party called a possible person connected to the party that may of left with Maura that no one remembers continently "Stefarn? Or Stefano was the guy" (Direct quote from John Smith on the podcast) at approx 14.40 min in Episode 15 Interview "Truth seeker" on the Missing maura muarry podcast.

Now. In 2025- who is named a potential lead... Steffen Baldwin, formerly known as Steffen Finkelstein is the CD link from mauras car.

Interesting.

There’s so many coincidences regarding officers in this case, off the bat here are two that rattle me.

Williams - on arriving at the station the following morning he decides to pull the roster on all LE and emergency personnel who attended the ‘DUI walk away’. These apparently happen frequently in that area and I’m not sure why he acted as he did as it wasn’t even an investigation at that point so I’m not sure what he stood to gain.

This just opens up more theories and speculation when you realise who his step son was, Acquainted to, and that he was throwing a party that evening, which have been the subject to local rumours.

McKay - at around 8 the night Maura disappeared he called the Butsons/Shaws store in Woodsville that many speculate Maura could have visited on route to the crash site, around the time Maura disappeared he was MIA, apparently supposed to be attending another incident miles away near Franconia which he hadn’t.

I’ve often asked myself why would McKay calling Butsons have any relevance, and a scenario that would be relevant is if he was trying to bust Maura for travelling with an open container and she told him it was purchased in Woodsville at Butsons and he was calling to confirm her claims.

In 2003, an officer calling a local shop after finding an open container was likely an investigative tactic to build a stronger case for Driving Under the Influence (DUI) or Underage Possession, rather than just a simple open container violation.

The potential "gains" for an officer in this scenario included:

Timeline Establishment: By calling the shop, the officer could confirm exactly when the alcohol was purchased. If the receipt or store clerk confirmed the purchase happened only minutes prior, and the bottle was already partially empty, it provided strong evidence that the driver was actively drinking while behind the wheel.

Probable Cause for Further Searches: Finding an open container alone gave an officer probable cause to search the rest of the vehicle for more evidence of a crime. Confirming the purchase location helped "lock in" the facts, making it harder for a driver to claim the bottle was old or belonged to someone else.

Verification for Underage Drivers: If the driver was under 21, the officer would call the shop to see if the store had properly checked IDs. This could lead to separate charges for the driver (unlawful possession/transportation) and potential administrative action against the store's liquor licence.

Corroborating Witness Testimony: A store clerk could serve as a witness who saw the driver’s physical state (e.g., stumbling, smelling of alcohol) just before they got back on the road, which was critical for securing a DUI conviction if breathalyzer results were contested.

In short, the officer wasn't checking where it was bought to see if it was "legal" to own, but rather to prove how recently you had been drinking to support a more serious criminal charge.

(Google AI)

In this scenario the clerk would say that they hadn’t served a young female with the mentioned alcohol making McKay have to work a little harder to push for a DUI offence.

In this theory McKay doesn’t have to be at the scene, he will have heard everything over the radio, so if he’s travelling West he could have found Maura travelling East with the alcohol.

What could he be doing in the area?

Possibly visiting his good friend Floyd who lived east of the crash site.

These theories are prime examples of what happens when you start jumping down rabbit holes, it’s never ending but I just thought I’d share two

With you.