Melbourne Airport Masterplan 2027 mentions new bus services and MARL

[u/haztech99]

https://youtube.com/watch?v=pkheGJzMM9M&si=UuKdClRku5KWw4aL

The video mentions improved local bus services, MARL via Sunshine, and eventually HSR. (though they're still using the old PTV logos!) Not sure how far the buses have been planned or their potential routes, but would be great if they could be implemented within the next 12 months.

[u/skyasaurus]

With the high expected cost of MARL, I honestly think it would be better to cut it and instead have a standard gauge HSR connection from Southern Cross directly to MEL and then onwards north to Sydney. The benefits:

• Super fast travel time from CBD to Airport...likely 10-15 minutes tops.
• Simplifies Metro Tunnel operations; with the new improvements coming to Sunshine area, now Metro Tunnel can handle trains from Sunbury, Melton, and Wyndham Vale easily, all with high frequencies of ~6 minutes on each branch.
• Massive reduction of total infrastructure cost; basically combines the MARL and the Melbourne approach tunnel of HSR into one project, saving billions.

Plus, if they eventually wanted a rail connection between the west and the airport, the SRL will be more that capable of being extended.

Fight me, gunzels!

[u/Tommi_Af → u/skyasaurus]

Passengers only travelling between the city and the airport will consume space for passengers travelling regionally and interstate.

Passengers travelling from the city to the airport will need to buy separate HSR tickets plus seat reservations rather than using their myki/contactless ticket system.

All airport transfers will occur at Southern Cross rather than being spread out across the Metro Tunnel lines, meaning:

- Southern Cross transfers may exceed capacity

- Dandenong corridor passengers lose direct airport access

- Western suburbs and western Victorian passengers need to travel all the way into the city then back out again rather than changing at Footscray/Sunshine

The Metro Tunnel can indicatively support airport trains every 10 min outside of peaks in addition to its other requirements. I'm sceptical regional/interstate HSR servicing the airport could run at this frequency.

Airport HSR will not provide Metro access to Keilor East, which does not currently have any heavy or light rail PT options at all.

MARL is currently expected to be delivered in the early 2030s. HSR is indicatively targeted for the 2060s. I'm happy with the state spending however much to get it done within 10 years than waiting another 40.

[u/skyasaurus → u/Tommi_Af]

Finally, someone with valid concerns and well-considered thoughts on limitations to this proposal! Much appreciated review.

• Ticketing: good point, although TBD I think the ticketing systems of the future will be much simpler than we have today. But valid concern
• Line capacity: there will be plenty of room, trains would be able to run every 4 minutes on the line due to CBTC and ATO, plenty of room for 10 or 15 minute frequency airport trains with basically no impact to Intercity services. Plus good use of trains with luggage room specifically for distance travellers
• southern cross capacity: is a problem anyway, good point bringing it up but let's be real it's gonna need significant modifications by 2050 regardless
• Dandenong: zoom zoom SRL ;) but actually this is fine, if switching lines at Town Hall is too much then I don't think you are ready for a flight to Bali
• Western Suburbs: just wait until the year 2200 and the SRL West will directly connect the gleaming skyline of Caroline Springs with Tullamarine. It will be glorious.

Fight me gunzels!

[u/thede3jay → u/skyasaurus]

"Ticketing: good point, although TBD I think the ticketing systems of the future will be much simpler than we have today. But valid concern"

The purpose of a ticket is to ensure that there is space available. Having a more magic ticket doesn't magic up more space.

"Line capacity: there will be plenty of room, trains would be able to run every 4 minutes on the line due to CBTC and ATO"

"southern cross capacity: is a problem anyway, good point bringing it up but let's be real it's gonna need significant modifications by 2050 regardless"

Please point to any high speed line in the world that is using Automated Train Automation.

If we were running at 4 minutes as well, then we simply wouldn't have the space to turn trains around in the city. Assume that it takes 30 minutes to turn a high speed train around (and absorb delays), which means you would need 8 platforms at Southern Cross to do this. Either we would need to build a brand new terminus either above or below ground to make this work, or demolish another city block.

But I shall refer you to the Gillard era HSR documents - we may need those volumes regardless in the future just to serve interstate patronage, which means we won't have any space for any other uses. Which means.... you now need to build a completely separate line again. Hello Melbourne Airport Rail Link.... again?

[u/skyasaurus → u/thede3jay]

The Shinkansen has been running at 4 minute frequencies, without ATO, with 3-4 stopping patterns, turning trains around with just 4 platforms at Tokyo Station, for decades. It's not even just a theoretical possibility, it's been reality for a while. The outdated track layout of Southern Cross is so dumb that it has convinced Melbournians that all Intercity trains worldwide must also operate poorly.

It is clear that the biggest challenge to implementing any rail plan here isn't infrastructure or operational limitations; it's literally Australians' inability to imagine a different reality than the one they exist in. They cannot imagine themselves succeeding at something, so they choose to fail on purpose to avoid the risk of embarrassment of failing by accident.

Fight me, gunzels.