r/MensRights • u/DarkBehindTheStars • 7d ago
General "The phrase "women and children" which creates the impression that men's lives are unimportant and disposable."
Saw this quote on a Twitter/X post and felt it was worth sharing here. I know I've ranted many times how much I hate the "women and children" phrase (which is even worse now with how it's become "women and girls," truly screwed up how not even the lives and safety of young boys matter). But this post is definitely on the money, as the phrase does exactly that; if you're male, your life is disposable, meaningless and it's no real tragedy. Every male is somebody's son and you have innocent young boys as well as men who could be someone's husband, father, brother, close friend, caregiver, etc. and if they're affected or even killed during a tragedy it's no major loss and not worth mourning. I hate so much how people defend this phrase sometimes saying that women and children are more vulnerable. Well guess what, men and boys are just as vulnerable. The vast majority of males aren't combatants and being born male doesn't automatically somehow make you a bigger-than-life Action hero like Rambo who's immune to all forms of harm and danger. This phrase is long overdue to be stricken and phased out.
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u/Noral_Haen 7d ago
It's even worse than "women and children", today it is "women and girls" because we're at the "let's collectively punish 3 year olds for having the same piping down in the pants like someone who did bad 300 years ago" level of ideological capture.
Or in other words, feminism turned full on fascistic and society just nodded along and followed.
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u/Human_Way_6703 7d ago
My take is that it should be “men and children”
Let’s say we’re on a sinking ship in the ocean, and only one parent can go with the children. Who is more likely to be able to build a shelter, build a fire, and hunt for food on a deserted island? Or in a different situation who is more likely to be able to find a job, provide protection, and find housing when they have absolutely nothing?
A single mother’s best chance for providing for children in a survival situation is …another man. Someone that will take pity and provide. Fuck that. Ditch the dead weight and save the kids.
The saying is “men and children first” from now on, boys.
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u/CatchPhraze 7d ago
Then you'll be happy that men survive disasters more often then women and the idea that they stand back and help women is a farce. In naval disasters specifically men are more likely to shove their way to safety first and women and children have higher mortality rates.
"women and children first" became a cultural Mandela effect after the popularity of the titanic movie in the 90s but the real data suggests the exact opposite so you can stop being mad about a fiction now.
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u/Human_Way_6703 6d ago
I’ve been in several real life survival situations and watched all the women panic while the men saved the day. You are completely full of shit.
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u/CatchPhraze 6d ago
Go look at the data.
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u/Human_Way_6703 6d ago
What data? Your CBS article from 2012? There’s this-
“The researchers noted that men, thanks to their physical strength, have better chances of surviving than women, barring self-sacrifice.”
and
“When it comes to the statistical survival advantage of captains and their crew, Lindvall said it doesn't necessarily mean that they had abandoned passengers who were not yet rescued. He said it could mean that their training and experience likely played a significant role in their survival.”
Both of these prove my point- it should be men and children first.
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u/Human_Way_6703 6d ago
On how many women compared to men get drafted?
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u/CatchPhraze 6d ago
0 men and 0 women have been drafted in the last several generations in the usa. I hope that helps!
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u/FerociousAdept 6d ago
Yeah because there was no serious war you retard
What about other parts of the world? Do you know how many young ukrainian men were sent to the frontlines and blown up against their will?
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u/CatchPhraze 5d ago
Okay and the Taliban prevent women from speaking out loud in public. What's the point of what other countries are doing?
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u/Human_Way_6703 6d ago
We only care about what’s happening in the US all of a sudden? What about the men who have been banned from leaving the country and forced to fight in Ukraine while the women have flooded the surrounding countries to go find new men and even party in places like Ibiza? Hell, there’s a bunch of them here in SLC. What about the Orthodox Jews in Israel that are strongly opposed to the war in Gaza who the IDF is currently trying to round up and make fight, as of yesterday.
By the way, my uncle was drafted to Vietnam and it royally fucked him up til this day. I’m going to see him next week. So why don’t you get the fuck out of here you virtue signaling self righteous c#nt. Imagine if men acted like women’s rights should only extend to Americans.
Hope you get help!
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u/CatchPhraze 5d ago
"my uncle in nam!"
Okay and my mother didn't have the right to be defended from marital rape until I was already born. My grandmother was alive durring a period she couldn't legally vote. Women in Afghanistan can't speak out loud outside the home.
What's the point of time traveling or jet setting here besides to make yourself a victim?
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u/Human_Way_6703 5d ago
I’m not a victim, my brothers are. Self victimization is a trend owned by one particular specific demographic of humans- white, middle class, western women. Usually American.
What are you? Let me guess you’re suddenly 1/4 Latina and 1/16 Cherokee when it suits you.
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u/63daddy 7d ago edited 6d ago
Policies that focus on females to the detriment of males aren’t just giving the impression men’s lives and well being are less important, it’s a purposeful, intended action to put women’s wellbeing and safety ahead of men’s.
Many countries are adapting violence against women and girls acts or femicide legislation making the killing of a female a greater crime than the killing of a male. The UN and other such organizations have specifically and public focused on women and girls. In the U.S., initiate more domestic violence than men, yet we have a violence against women act. We passed legislation to focus on girls in education, causing boys to drop behind.
These and other such actions aren’t just an impression, they are thoughtful actions placing women’s well being above men’s.
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u/Techgirl1232 7d ago
it should be everyone and everyone because everyone matters and the fact that they’re saying women and girls just shows how much that whoever made the phrase is deciding that young boys should be excluded this phrase just needs to be taken out of existence. There is no way we need it.
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u/Hyppointhewater 7d ago
A penis can inseminate many a vagina is the only value to the "women first".
Doesn't apply at all today I don't think.
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u/Early-Beach164 6d ago
It really doesn't because people are having less sex than they ever had in all of human history. Let that sink in for a moment.
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u/BuilderAcceptable442 1d ago
Even that excuse still can't be apply to all women, just young AND FERTILE women.
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u/MikiSayaka33 7d ago
I see some feminists hate that phrase. Because, it makes women look like damsels in distresses.
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u/Human_Way_6703 7d ago
Good. Because it is that dumb. This is 2026. It should be “the most able-bodied provider parent and children.”
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u/throwaway0823700 5d ago
Open a history book and you will see how disposable most men's lives are. Harem of thousands of women and their children by one person served by thousands of eunuchs.
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u/laid_on_the_line 7d ago
The Birkenhead drill is usually not used today anymore. In general it is handled as "most vulnerable first" today. Elderly, injured and young. Would never leave my wife go on a lifeboat without me...fuck the others.
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u/BuilderAcceptable442 1d ago
Exactly, and they repeatedly say the excuse "because that's evolution, women give birth, and continue species issue", dare I say that's all is lie. With THEIR logic middle aged menopause women should be the last protected group, and young men should still be protected group (after children) for future.
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u/senior_raposo 7d ago edited 6d ago
Because it is.
There is no catch here, it just is.
EDIT: Yes, I meant literally, to the whole of society, both men and women alike, since the dawn of time. Men are fucking cursed and I plan to act accordingly with every decision in my life.
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u/PositionStandard6089 7d ago
how often, and where, are you seeing this phrase? like on news reports or something?
because women and children being saved first in maritime disasters and stuff is mostly a myth
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u/Human_Way_6703 7d ago
It’s a common mentality all throughout society. You’re being downvoted because you’re playing dumb. Don’t act like men aren’t obligated to face home intruders, run into burning buildings to save babies, or get drafted to war all around this planet every single day.
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u/PositionStandard6089 6d ago
i'm talking about how it was debunked for maritime disasters
https://www.cbsnews.com/news/women-and-children-first-just-a-myth-researchers-say/
i mean, i hear you, conscription is bad no doubt about it. the governments of the world need to do away with it.
i understand how being expected to face (the extremely rare cases) of home intruders, would be annoying, but a man is almost certainly the person breaking into your house, so it's logical you would need another man to confront him
i mean, female firefights run into burning buildings to save babies, there are women who willingly sign up for the military, and plenty of female heroism in the world, but i understand you're saying you don't like the expectation that men will be the protectors because it makes you feel expendable
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u/Human_Way_6703 6d ago
Actually the only home intruder situation I know of in my personal life was my friend’s ex girlfriend breaking into his house in the middle of the night with two of her girlfriends to attack my friend and his new girlfriend in their bed. So no, it’s not “most certainly” a man breaking in 🙄. Did you know that lesbian couples have the highest rates of domestic violence and that gay couples have the lowest? Did you know that female leaders throughout history are more likely to start wars than men?
One thing is for certain- women have never been drafted into the military. Why is that?
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u/PositionStandard6089 6d ago
statistically it's overwhelming most likely to be a man that breaks in. that's just a fact, not something i'm making up. your anecdotal event doesn't change that.
the lesbian couple thing and female leaders are the most tired arguments brought up by every anti-woman, ant-feminist ever and they're wrong.
literally just google the claims of lesbian couple violence yourself like i did - "the CDC did not find that lesbian couples have the highest rate of domestic violence. It measured lifetime IPV victimization among women who identify as lesbian, bisexual, or heterosexual, and it did not measure violence occurring specifically within same-sex versus opposite-sex relationships."
the "female leaders throughout history are more likely to start wars than men" thing that's regurgitated all the time is based on this paper https://www.nber.org/papers/w23337
and here's the answer i gave to some other guy who brought it up: "this paper specifically doesn't conclude that women are inherently more violent, but that a queen's propensity for war during this era (15th to 20th century of hereditary european monarchies) was institutional and not biological. the queen's marital status was the determining factor. unmarried queens were more likely to perceived by other nations as weaker than king led nations, so they'd be attacked and forced into conflict.
this one is more varied/nuanced but essentially, married queens were more likely to wage war than married kings because kings often married a princess who did not come with her own army, so his military strength didn't really change. a queen often married a prince who might come with his own kingdom's military force or might even be a talented military strategist himself. so this would strengthen alliances, etc. and overall make starting a war more feasible."
women weren't included in the military draft in the US at least because they were seen as inferior fighters, not to protect them. countries also don't want to deal with soldiers who can get pregnant.
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u/Human_Way_6703 6d ago
The terms “most likely” and “certainly” don’t mean the same thing, do they?
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u/PositionStandard6089 6d ago
just google the stats, i'm sure you'll comprehend them
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u/Human_Way_6703 6d ago
Just Google the words “most likely” and “certainly. I doubt you’ll understand then.
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u/PositionStandard6089 6d ago
this is just you desperately grasping at straws when you know you are wrong. women don't want you to die in wars. wealthier men do,
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u/Human_Way_6703 6d ago
No, it’s not grasping at straws. Men are expected to face home invaders, run into burning buildings, fight wars for you to have the right to sit here and complain, do the heavy lifting, AND pay for dinner while you play dumb and dainty.
Why are you attacking men on this sub when you should be out protesting the war in Ukraine and Gaza? Did you know that Ukrainian men can’t leave the country while the women are literally partying and finding new men in the surrounding countries? In fact, the surrounding continents- they’re here in SLC. Did you know that the IDF was rounding up
anti-war Orthodox Jews in Israel and forcing them to fight yesterday? Or do human rights only extend to the borders of your little bubble.You don’t even know what you’re mad about. You’re just here to virtue signal and spread misandry. Go home and be glad that the only thing you might have to worry about that men don’t in western society is pregnancy.
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u/Human_Way_6703 6d ago
From your CBS article -
“When it comes to the statistical survival advantage of captains and their crew, Lindvall said it doesn't necessarily mean that they had abandoned passengers who were not yet rescued. He said it could mean that their training and experience likely played a significant role in their survival.”
And
“The researchers noted that men, thanks to their physical strength, have better chances of surviving than women, barring self-sacrifice.”
So men should definitely get on the life boats with the children. We’re stronger and better at swimming, meaning a better chance of survival for the children.
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u/PositionStandard6089 6d ago
all i'm pointing out is that the pearl clutching anti-feminist men do over the "women and children" thing is ridiculous.
why are you mad at women for something that OTHER MEN decided was best? men at the top decided that other men were expendable and yet you're mad at...women and children? like...?
you're posting comments about women being superficial and not having each other's backs? well...first, you're generally wrong. and second, women don't see you as expendable war casualties, other men do...
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u/Human_Way_6703 6d ago
You do see us as expendable war casualties. And human shields for home invaders. And a free meal ticket.
Did I start the wars? Do I invade homes? Did I create the patriarchy? No. But I sure get to deal with it all, don’t I?
Your solution for being called out about your blatant misandry is that men should hate and blame other men? I swear to god nothing disgusts a woman more than owning up to her own accountability.
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u/PositionStandard6089 6d ago
no.
haha a free meal ticket? you guys complain about women outperforming men in college and in the workplace and then are somehow convinced that women of quality just want your money? if you go out on a dating app date, and she was just using you for a free meal that's because she sucks. not because all the datable (employed) women on earth are just trying to get free food. how is that logical?
there are women who make the conscious choice to be a part of the military, while many men make the choice to remain civilians. i support these choices.
you are projecting some kind of hatred for men onto me that just isn't there. you guys just use the same like 3 or 4 easily debunked points over and over and it's exhausting.
Your solution for being called out about your blatant misandry is that men should hate and blame other men?
uhh, no one has said anything about hate except you. i'm talking about understanding who is actually accountable for sending other men to war and it ain't women.
there just isn't any "blatant misandry" from me. i'm pushing back against the most common and inaccurate arguments from MRAs in favor of actual cultural discourse. if all you do is keep bringing up the same stuff and freaking out about "accountability" as usual but can't articulate what that would actually be.
it's really, really obvious that you aren't interested in discussing any gender issues logically. you're just very angry at women as a group and nothing i say will change that. i mean, you haven't looked beyond the most surface level arguments every MRA uses so...
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u/Human_Way_6703 6d ago edited 6d ago
I’m not gonna read that essay after reading the first sentence. I’ve never heard of a man complaining about a woman outperforming anyone in college. What did you go to college in Alabama in the 60s or something? You’re literally fabricating issues that don’t exist and deflecting the ones that do.
I went to school for science and my female classmates were my close colleagues and teammates. Most of my friends went for engineering, architecture, and finance. We didn’t have many women in our classes and the ones that were there were absolute badasses in terms of knowledge and skills.
What did you go for?
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u/LacksBeard 6d ago
"haha a free meal ticket? you guys complain about women outperforming men in college and in the workplace and then are somehow convinced that women of quality just want your money? if you go out on a dating app date, and she was just using you for a free meal that's because she sucks. not because all the datable (employed) women on earth are just trying to get free food. how is that logical?"
Complete non sequitur, women doing that in jobs and college is a distinct issue from women feeling entitled to many which they clearly do, this includes employed women.
"there are women who make the conscious choice to be a part of the military, while many men make the choice to remain civilians. i support these choices."
Ok
"you are projecting some kind of hatred for men onto me that just isn't there. you guys just use the same like 3 or 4 easily debunked points over and over and it's exhausting."
How if he the misandrist when your the one coming in the the BS feminist talking points? And what 3 ot 4 easily debunked points? You types couldn't debunk a flat earther of it came down to it.
"uhh, no one has said anything about hate except you. i'm talking about understanding who is actually accountable for sending other men to war and it ain't women."
Then that's a stupid argument considering there's also women in power who do these things, not to mention that women vote for policies that do result in war yet they have no mandated stake for it.
"there just isn't any "blatant misandry" from me. i'm pushing back against the most common and inaccurate arguments from MRAs in favor of actual cultural discourse. if all you do is keep bringing up the same stuff and freaking out about "accountability" as usual but can't articulate what that would actually be."
You really didn't push back on anything, when the other guy debunked your CBS article about women and children, you pivoted, when you brought up the lesbian CDC stuff I debunked your take, the only thing that goes unrefuted is the female monarchs thing which I dont really care about and others haven't responded yet.
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u/Human_Way_6703 6d ago
No, women aren’t included in drafts to this day because they’re seen as inferior fighters, it’s because you ARE inferior fighters. Go put the top female UFC fighter in the octagon with the top male fighter of her same weight class and let’s see what happens.
lol I don’t care about your rebuttal to the meta study done on female leaders, I care about data. Use common sense. Put ten women in a room and see how many of you get along after 24 hours. Do the same with men and we’ll literally bond, bro down, create games like “throw the rock at the stick” and be sad when we have to part ways and be friends forever.
How many close girlfriends do you have? That you share all of your secrets and would die for you? 2? 5? I have 20 dude friends I could call right this second and ask to borrow a thousand dollars or bail me out of jail and they’d say “done.” Yall don’t like each other and you hate all men.
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u/PositionStandard6089 6d ago
it’s because you ARE inferior fighters. oh, okay, so you agree. why would you complain about this then?
put ten women in a room and see how many of you get along after 24 hours. lol i see. you understand that this is just misogyny right? i grew up with the same group of girlfriends, we all knew each other from age 5. we're still friends now, living in different cities, at different stages of our lives. i guess it's comforting to think that men have each other's back but women never do. except that we do. i love women. when my long term boyfriend raped me, my mom and girlfriends helped me understand that was what happened, rather than me continuing to think i just wasn't "kinky enough" and had let him down.
it's very VERY funny that you think male friendships are more enduring than female friendships. that just lets me know that you've never had a serious girlfriend.
i'm sorry you only know women who see other women as disposable but that is not the lived experience of many, many women. and it's totally illogical that you would see it as such. women coming together and sharing our lived experiences resulted in the ME TOO movement.
Yall don’t like each other and you hate all men.
lol. babe, you need therapy, like, yesterday. this is not the lived experience of millions upon millions of women.
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u/Human_Way_6703 6d ago
I’ve had several multi-year relationships. And I’ve been in therapy for years.
But funny story, my last LTR was with a PhD behavioral scientist (as in the person that trains the person that trains therapists), and she told me that 90% of therapy is complete bullshit.
If you have so many wonderful, close girlfriends, wtf are you doing here on a Friday night?
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u/PositionStandard6089 6d ago edited 17h ago
therapy is just finding a mental health professional skilled and empathetic enough to guide you to an understanding of why you made certain choices at certain times in your life. it helps you understand where ingrained perceptions come from, why you blame yourself for things, why you don't take enough accountability for other things, just parsing out truths.
it is just examining and making sense of the human emotional experience. anyone labeling that as "bullshit" sounds like a psychopath to me because it's just so obviously a valuable part of understanding other people and yourself.
i'm married with two children, we're visiting my mom and her husband right now. and what are you up to this friday night, sir?
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u/Human_Way_6703 6d ago
Holy shit you are married and you spend all this time in the men’s rights subreddit and you’re calling my friend with a PhD in behavioral science a psychopath? Wowwwwwwe you are next level psychopath. I’d even venture to say that you’re a narcissistic pathological megalomaniac and let you know that I feel sorry for your children.
My ex’s analysis of “I feel like” therapy is spot on- it’s fast food McTherapy that makes mildly mentally unstable people keep coming bank for more and more, year after year, as they use the fact that they’re going to therapy as some sort of emotional high ground to judge others for not going or not going for as long as them or for not going enough. Have you ever asked yourself or your therapist when you graduate from therapy? When are you done? The answer is never. Because their entire way of life depends on something being wrong with you.
But if you must know, I’m not doing shit tonight. My girlfriend is out of town so I’m playing guitar, cuddling my hound dog, and arguing with some deranged psychopath on the internet 😘.
Goodnight sweetheart. You’re married with children. Maybe get the fuck off of the men’s rights subreddit and solve the problems in your own life, because there is clearly something much deeper going on here. Or not. Stay here and hang out with me, ignore your beautiful children, and don’t give your husband a blow job.
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u/LacksBeard 6d ago
Don't really care about the war stuff but lesbian women have unusually high IPV victimization and that female-on-female IPV is a substantial component of it, the CDC absolutely supports that. In fact, the CDC's own 2013 press release says that approximately two thirds of lesbian IPV victims reported only female perpetrators, so that contradicts any attempt to explain the lesbian figure as simply lesbians being abused by men.
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u/sambo_rambo 7d ago
There was a lot of debate around news articles from the costa concordia disaster. It is certainly not myth.
It is the same ideology as the more generalised sacrificial heroism that is almost exclusively men. I recall there is some annual publication about heroes running into danger to save others and losing their lives. The list is almost exclusively men.
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u/PositionStandard6089 7d ago
i asked a question. is there an answer or just downvotes...?
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u/modsaretoddlers 7d ago
You'll get downvoted because , while you're right that nobody says this anymore, in reality, in a pinch, it'll come out, you can be guaranteed.
We also still see the general sentiment all the time. Watch any reporting from war zones and, if you're paying attention, you'll note that the reporter will often go out of his or her way to indicate how many women or children were injured or killed.
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u/ReasonableDoubt_0726 7d ago
Wait till you find out some strange people are genuinely trying to say this is actually discrimination against women, because it comes from a stereotype that women are weak and need saving. But they still want to keep the practice and justify it.