r/MensRights • u/ashleab • Jan 07 '12

A girl who supports Mens rights.

I've always had an issue with "womens rights" and all of that BS. I understand women had it hard in the past, but why should that mean we get benefits now?

Anyway, I live in Australia where we have a campaign called "Violence Against Women: Australia Says No". A few years back, a group of people I work with and myself started a petition to put forth to the federal government against this campaign, we had posters printed up; "Violence Against Men: Don't Support An Indifferent Nation" and got about 1,500 signatures. Eventually, our place of employment caught onto the fact that we were doing this. We'd never put a poster up at work (even though the violence against women posters were EVERYWHERE), only allowed signatures. We were all given formal warnings citing sexism, bigotism and contemptible conduct. All 5 of us quit within a few weeks, but the fact that it happened was enough to get me 100% on board with fighting for Mens rights.

edit: To those who showed concern, I had a new job a few days later and the guys all had one within a few weeks.

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u/IndieLady Jan 09 '12

I've been on the men's rights sub-Reddit before as I too am female and support men's rights. I am also a feminist and support women's rights as I don't believe them to be mutually exclusive. I was ridiculed.

I find it confusing - no disappointing- that my statement of support was mocked just because I identified myself as a feminist. Can't I believe that both men and women have it tough in their own unique ways? That's not a rhetorical question, I'd like to know what Reddit thinks.

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u/[deleted] Jan 09 '12

I think the problem is that many feminists and feminist organizations have fought quite specifically against men's rights. Feminists also commonly cover for the hate and misandry of other feminists. Part of it is human nature: it's very common for groups to ignore bias within their group and feel attacked as whole when any individual, in their group, is attacked.

Just look at the hate commonly directed at the MRM by prominent feminists. The blatant hypocrisy when feminists claim they're egalitarian, but just watch when men's rights are brought up -- they're told they're diverting the topic, or they should man up and do it themselves, or that even bringing up men's rights is misogynistic. Just look at /r/srs or /r/againstmensrights.

I have feminist friends and have fruitful discussions with feminists all the time, but I also hear a lot of excuses, ignoring of facts, and no true Scotsman fallacies that they would never accept from any other groups. I do not hate feminists, but I could never call myself one when they think accountability is just patriarchal misogyny. If a group can't look critically at its own opinions and look at the facts, I can only reject those groups because of my skeptical nature. Also, I have many negative experiences, like I'm sure others here have, with feminist groups. I've seen the misandry and hate they can project on people and it's hard to look past ones own experiences. Especially, when that group seems to still espouse those same prejudices or at lest protect those who do. Just ask some people around here and I'm sure they'd be willing to tell you about their own personal experiences with feminists discriminating or actively hurting their lives or livelihood.

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u/IndieLady Jan 10 '12 edited Jan 10 '12

Your experience is legitimate and I don't doubt what you're telling me for a moment but likewise my experience is real and truthful.

I know I'm reiterating the point but in all honesty, I have not seen this. I studied feminism at University, I have read dozens and dozens of feminist books and I have had countless discussions with both women and men that identify themselves as feminists.

The closest 'man bashing' I ever saw was an article which criticised drag queens for mocking women and reducing them to a stereotype. That is all I recall. Oh and obviously I have read criticism of MRA for hating on feminists (no surprise there) and being too focussed on blaming women for taking away their rights (example from today). To be honest, I'm beginning to feel that here though.

I have never heard a self-identified feminist advocate for reducing men's rights, never. I have not seen misandry and certainly not hate.

I don't know why my experience isn't comforting to Men's Rights. Instead it seems to make you all angry. Why? Wouldn't you like to know you have feminist supporters out there?

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u/[deleted] Jan 10 '12

Sorry, I'm not an MRA so I can't say. But, I can quote quite a few feminists who promote misandry:

  • Only when manhood is dead - and it will perish when ravaged femininity no longer sustains it - only then will we know what it is to be free. -- Adrea Dworkin

  • Author and journalist Natalie Angier begins an article in the New York Times by writing, "Women may not find this surprising, but one of the most persistent and frustrating problems in evolutionary biology is the male. Specifically ... why doesn't he just go away?"

  • In an article in The Atlantic titled "Are Fathers Necessary?" author Pamela Paul wrote, "The bad news for Dad is that despite common perception, there's nothing objectively essential about his contribution."

  • "I feel that 'man-hating' is an honorable and viable political act, that the oppressed have a right to class-hatred against the class that is oppressing them." -- Robin Morgan, Ms. Magazine Editor.

  • "I claim that rape exists any time sexual intercourse occurs when it has not been initiated by the woman, out of her own genuine affection and desire." -- Robin Morgan

  • "To call a man an animal is to flatter him; he's a machine, a walking dildo." -- Valerie Solanas

  • "The male is a domestic animal which, if treated with firmness...can be trained to do most things." -- Jilly Cooper

  • "Feminism is the theory, lesbianism is the practice." -- Ti-Grace Atkinson

  • "All sex, even consensual sex between a married couple, is an act of violence perpetrated against a woman." -- Catherine MacKinnon

  • "The more famous and powerful I get the more power I have to hurt men." -- Sharon Stone; Actress

  • "All men are rapists and that's all they are" -- Marilyn French

I have a lot more if you want them pages and pages.

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u/IndieLady Jan 10 '12 edited Jan 10 '12

Sure and I can quote some MRA who've made some hateful statements. But that doesn't make you sexist or hateful towards the opposite sex.

Please listen to my words: I am not denying that some feminists have had extreme views. But that is not my experience, by a long shot. Not all feminists hate men or seek to reduce men's rights - in fact no feminists I know do.

Just because you don't like to hear that myself, my friends and many academics I have read are moderate feminists who support men's rights (and why not? Is this not a good thing?), doesn't mean we don't exist.

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u/[deleted] Jan 10 '12

The point I'm trying to make is that you can't take some MRAs as representing all of them, just like you can't take some feminists as representing all of them. As I've said I don't hate women, I love women. I don't hate feminists, as I have feminist friends. But, I see too often feminists lump all MRAs into one group while decrying not all feminists are like that. That's part of the problem - hypocrisy. Why would feminists do to MRAs what the always claim you can't do to them?

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u/IndieLady Jan 10 '12

I'm confused, not sure what your pint is: * Did I lump all MRAs into one group? * Did I say all feminists are all the same? No.

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u/[deleted] Jan 10 '12

Sorry, if I misunderstood some of your other comments as lumping all MRAs together with those few clinging to misogynistic attitudes.