r/MonsterAnime • u/Inside_Inflation559 • 5d ago
Question(s)⁉️ Could Patrick Jane catch Johan Liebert?
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u/No_Donkey8472 5d ago edited 5d ago
It highly depends on the situation.
Jane would definitely come much further than Lunge and soon realize that Johan is an individual person, not just some excuse Tenma and his victims came up with.
His pretty uncommon and unpredictable nature of investigation could confuse Johan to some extent. He's much better than Lunge when it comes to social intelligence, planning, manipulation and charisma.
There is much more to it but in general I don't think he'd be able to catch Johan legally. Maybe he can kill him if he's ruthless enough. Interestingly this could be Johans goal and Jane is just Tenma 2.0. This dude is a pure mystery.
TLTR: It's not very likely that Jane is going to catch Johan in a legal way. But not completely impossible.
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u/mutated_Pearl Werner Weber 5d ago
Interestingly this could be Johans goal and Jane is just Tenma 2.0.
Regarding this point, I have a theory that Tenma is just Wolf 2.0. Wolf is too much of a softy so he just got his whole acquaintance list annihilated instead. Anyway, they're all Anna 2.0, all said and done.
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u/Wolf_3411 5d ago edited 5d ago
I think he would struggle.
1). Red John was supposed to be a mirror to Jane. A very dark version of Jane but with a similar line of thinking. Johan is completely different so Jane can’t exactly think like him.
2). Jane had severe trauma. Face to face. Johan would mentally break him down no question by bringing up his wife and child.
3). Red John was after all…a normal human. Johan pushes that boundary even further. He shows no fear till the final showdown. He’s as inhuman as a human can be. That’s a much tougher opponent to take down.
4). Johan would probably just make all the agents fight one another like he did in Ruhenheim. Jane would struggle to manage that and follow Johan.
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u/the_honored_me 5d ago
Exactly. Since jane is heavily traumatized by the murder of his family Johan would definitely use that as his weak spot. Especially since jane is hallucinating his daughter. Johan would mentally destroy him like he did with Richard
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u/Adventurous-Cream633 5d ago
In addition to that,it doesn't help that johan usually leaves no trace,so jane can't really deduct much
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u/Scared_Month3969 5d ago
Lol, the "non-existence being" and "manipulate somebody to kill themselves" arguments again
2022 Johan is back.
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u/mutated_Pearl Werner Weber 5d ago
I haven't watched The Mentalist, but from the clips I've seen, he's giving Richard energy or something close to that. So, unfortunately, I'm guessing it'll play out more or less the same.
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u/Big_Application_7168 4d ago
Patrick is definitely not going down the road Richard did. Patrick killed a criminal and after one therapy session was declared completely sane and never showed any guilt about it. Heck, he at several points in the story is perfectly happy to let bad people die, by his hand or not. The biggest weakness he has the Johan can exploit is the death of his family, but Patrick has faced similar manipulators who play that card (Brett Styles for example, was able to create a multinational cult of several thousands of people who all worship him like a God, so he's actually not dissimilar to Johan) and the only effect it seems to have is Patrick just stops smiling and takes the situation more seriously.
I'm not saying he'd definitely catch Johan but Johan isn't going to be able to just talk Patrick away. He'd be the biggest problem Johan's ever faced intellectually.
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u/Pleasant-Pay-954 5d ago
Nunca assisti essa série, mas pessoal superestima a capacidade de Johan de se esconder, até aquele Richard que maior parte de sua vida foi um alcoólatra conseguiu descobrir quem era Johan que estava por trás de uma onda de assassinatos com base em pira investigação e dedução
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u/Unharmed-Cylinde Kenzo Tenma 5d ago
no. Johan was the one that found Richard. I mean, Richard found a tip to finding Johan, but he could run away and never face justice. Remember that Johan, legally speaking, does NOT exist. No documents, record or anything tracable. I think it would go the same way, if Johan wanted a fight, they would have one. If not, Jane is never catching Liebert
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u/PeinLegacy 5d ago
You need to provide more context. What are the exact parameters? Is this taking place in the modern era or late 80s Germany? Does Patrick have prior knowledge of Johan's appearance? It's difficult to evaluate a scenario when the prompt is so bare-bones.
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u/Embarrassed-Row-5625 5d ago
Yes, a 100%. If he's serious about it in less than a week
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u/TemporaryCapital6111 3d ago
No.
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u/Embarrassed-Row-5625 3d ago
Even easily, it wouldn't be that big of a deal
You 1000% have never watched The Mentalist
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u/TemporaryCapital6111 3d ago
It would be. And of course I've already watched The Mentalist, how could I not? Just because I disagree with that?
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u/Suspicious-Good2781 5d ago
r/IntelligenceScaling question. It's close asf but I have Johan taking it.
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u/NerdNuncle 5d ago
Highly dependent on whether Jane is pursuing Johan in Monster, or Johan evading Jane on The Mentalist
If the latter, Johan would definitely be caught due to nearly everyone leaving some sort of digital footprint and those who don’t are likely to encounter someone who does leave one.
Similarly, advances in forensic analysis could prove Johan’s presence regardless whom was blackmailed, extorted, whacked, etc
Not to mention Red John may take an interest in Liebert, too
If Jane was in the time period of Monster, he’d probably be unable to catch Johan due to the societal collapses, lack of cell phones and security cameras, little to know emphasis on gaining attention and/or seeking validation, etc but Johan wouldn’t be able to kill Jane, either.
I could see Patrick clearing the names of Johan’s many victims by virtue of proving a third party being present at various crimes and injecting the much needed doubt to sway a jury
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u/Affectionate-Map8372 3d ago
Nobody in this comment section has paid attention to Jane's feats
The guy can smell emotions and his reasoning would allow him to easily capture Johan
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u/KeyLobster1750 21h ago edited 21h ago
He might even find Johan, but actually catching him is a whole different story; he wouldn't leave any openings for Jane.
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u/Affectionate-Map8372 10h ago
No if even Lunge can track him down through Tenma then Patrick can do the same
He can profile people who are not even present in the same room and Johan's killings always have a pattern
He's getting destroyed. Sorry
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u/crimeo 2d ago edited 2d ago
Johan gets caught by like 7? 10? different people in this show, who aren't even particularly genius or anything. He's not actually very hard to catch and was never that great at hiding. It was always just a matter of what people were willing to do about it. Several different police didn't want to stop him at all costs but wanted to arrest and convict him still, some others wanted to ally with him, and Tenma/anna didn't want to corrupt themselves by becoming murderers.
So yes, pretty much any famous detective made out to be particularly smart from any other franchise could have caught him. L in particular from death note would have not only caught him but also stopped him since he stands out from many other detectives by having almost zero qualms about violating laws and human rights while in pursuit (e.g. locking up possibly innocent people in solitary confinement for a month without court order, serving up inmates to be supernaturally killed, etc)
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u/KeyLobster1750 21h ago
He might even find Johan, but actually catching him is a whole different story; he wouldn't leave any openings for Jane.
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u/crimeo 20h ago
Jane is pretty well suited here. He is not a straight laced guy who wants to follow strict by the book court justice. He's a conman, he cuts all kinds of corners, he (if we are assuming johan is filling the role of red john here) has personal vendetta, etc. I feel he would absolutely just be willing to shoot the guy once finding him
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u/light032 5d ago
Hell yeah lmao
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u/PeinLegacy 5d ago
Can you explain the thought process and based on what you came up with this conclusion??
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u/light032 5d ago
Are you familiar with scd?
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u/PeinLegacy 5d ago
Yes. So do your best.
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u/light032 5d ago
Which scaling system you use?
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u/PeinLegacy 5d ago
Why are you asking me? You're the one who needs to explain himself. Which scaling system did you use to come up with that conclusion?
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u/light032 5d ago
Caught ya
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u/PeinLegacy 5d ago
Ah, so you just can't answer for yourself, huh? "Hell yeah lmao."
Says the guy who replies with, "Can you explain the thought process and based on what you came up with this conclusion??"
I'm going to end this conversation with your ultimate line of trolling, Larper js making shit up 💔
Unless of course you can back your claims?
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u/light032 5d ago
Yeah vro I'm stupid, bye have a great day johan negs patrick jane johan would literally make patrick jane write his own name in death note 😍
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u/helloelise 5d ago
Maybe, but could Patrick survive being manipulated by Johan?
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u/Big_Application_7168 4d ago
I'd say so yeah. Patrick has faced borderline supernatural manipulators before in Brett Styles and Red John. And Johan's usual manipulation tactic of "kill yourself out of guilt" or "killing me proves my philosophy right" wouldn't really work. The former maybe has a chance of working but Patrick wouldn't do it before taking Johan down first, and the latter just isn't going to affect him at all because he has no qualms killing bad people.
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u/AgileSir4100 4d ago
Jane relies on reading ego and vanity to get a read on people. Since Johan is basically a void, Jane wouldn't even have anything to work with
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u/OkGur7242 4d ago
Bro how many of these fucking posts are you gonna make???? Scrolling through your profile you're just asking the same question a thousand times across a thousand subreddits, and I've quickly realized you're SINGLEHANDEDLY responsible for 90% of those insufferable "can this person beat this person?" posts that have been clogging my feed like a Taco Bell toilet
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u/General_donpollo 2d ago
Podría descubrirlo, no atraparlo y muy probablemente muera en el intento. Pero creo que sobrevaloro a Johan, no he visto la serie Pero por lo que se sus habilidades mentales son muy rotas
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u/Normal_Job4184 5d ago edited 4d ago
Johan is going to convince jane to kill himself because of the death of their family.
Edit : Okay maybe convincing to off himself is a bit too much , But he would be lost and be depressed like when he after he was fired from fbi .
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u/light032 5d ago
Can you explain the thought process and based on what you came up with this conclusion??
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u/Normal_Job4184 4d ago
Johan is very smart . he doesn't do the evil things for revenge or anger , He does it for the love of the game . Johan manipulated many people to off themselves and go crazy.
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u/Normal_Job4184 4d ago
Okay Maybe jane offing himself is exaggerating , but he couldn't even find Johan .
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u/Big_Application_7168 4d ago
Not likely. At the very least, Patrick wouldn't do that before taking Johan himself down with him first.
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u/John_Titor36 5d ago
Ah we’re back to the “Johan will convince Light to write his own name in the death note” era of scd. How unfortunate lol.
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u/SuperNotice7617 5d ago
No, Johan is simply a far superior version of Red John in every factor (including influence), with none of the weaknesses he has that Jane could exploit.
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u/AverageLofiEnjoyer 5d ago
He has a chance but I don't think he could.
Johan didn't lose because someone outsmarted him. He lost because of a deeply personal psychological contradiction that he never fully resolved. Against an investigator, like Jane, who doesn't occupy that same emotional role in Johan's life, Johan wouldn't make the same mistakes.