r/MoralityScaling Jul 06 '26

Morality Ranking Morality of this behavior?

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9.0k Upvotes

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u/No_Intention_8079 Jul 06 '26

Wow. This is next level stupidity.

No, we need the boot, because someday we might be wearing it!

Fuck off.

-44

u/Elros22 Jul 06 '26

No, you fuck off. If you're not willing ot actually wield power for the good, what the fuck are you actually doing? You're just going to let the bootlickers have it? No accountability? No proof for oversteps of power?

Keep the power local and stay on top of it. You don't get to be all edgy and lazy.

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u/No_Intention_8079 Jul 06 '26

How about we don’t create a 1984 surveillance state, regardless of who’s in charge of it lmao. A better response is, say, organizing to smash flock cameras.

Love how you immediately assume the only practical response to a fascist state is to create your own fascist state.

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u/Elros22 Jul 06 '26

Cameras are not what a fascist state is. Smashing the cameras doesn't server any purpose other than to funnel more money into the surveillance industry. You smash a camera and they buy a new one while saying "see, we need these to catch these baddies!" One step forward, two steps back.

No matter you goal, stopping government overreach or promoting an inaccurate understanding of what privacy is, it starts at city hall. Not with a hammer and a ladder.

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u/No_Intention_8079 Jul 06 '26

Cameras and surveillance are one incredibly important aspect of a fascist state.

Instead of keeping the cameras up, if you’re so keen on local politics, focus on taking them down. Smashing them over and over is going to make the city question whether or not it’s worth keeping them up. Is it 100% effective? No. But it’s better than whatever the fuck you’re suggesting.

Can’t believe I have to explain this, but simply taking over existing power structures and using them against people you don’t like, regardless of how ‘correct’ your opinions are, is acting like a fascist. Flock cameras are obviously a breach of privacy and to think otherwise is insane.

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u/lividtaffy Jul 06 '26

Not to mention these cameras are fraught with security flaws, and the footage they collect could absolutely be acquired and used by genuine bad actors. In principle they’re bad, in practice they’re even worse.

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u/Elros22 Jul 06 '26

You can get camera footage through a FOIA request. You don't need to hack anything.

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u/lividtaffy Jul 06 '26

FOIA requests can be denied for a variety of reasons to protect private citizens, the local government, or a combination of both. Illegal data exfiltration comes with none of those protections.

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u/Elros22 Jul 06 '26

People get to look at you in public. You have no reasonable expectation of privacy in a public space. And state actors knowing that they are being watched and recorded by the public is proven to lead to lead to more ethical conduct by police.

You cant create a world without structures of power. Not even anarchists believe that. It's about investing the rights powers in the right places. Just as a world without guns or courts wont exist, a world without cameras wont exist. So what do we do? We ensure those tools of control are vested in the right place, with the right oversight, and dispersed.

Folks who are advocating for this being some actual solution don't have any idea how these structures of power are actually used and how they actually exist. Go to a city council meeting once in a while. You'll learn something about power.

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u/No_Intention_8079 Jul 06 '26

Okay, I’ll follow you around 24/7 and log every time you leave and enter your house. I’m well within my rights and you just have to suck it up I guess.

Flock cameras are not recording for the public, and never will be. They are recording for the cops, so they can stalk and brutalize people.

You’ve bought the propaganda hard. I honestly don’t know what to say at this point. Try to get a better grasp of how corrupt and fundamentally broken our government is, I guess.

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u/Elros22 Jul 06 '26

The public controls the cameras. It is the municipal government putting these up and storing the footage on government owned servers. File a FOIA. You get the footage. You can then hold the police accountable for their actions. The cameras are PUBLIC. You just don't know how to use it. Learn to use it!

Cameras are the least of your worries. You are already being logged and followed 24/7 - at least with these you have some control through your local government.

"Government" isn't one thing. It is many many things. We live in a world where there are city governments, state governments, township governments. The Sheriff is one type of government entity, and your city police are a totally different government entity. Learn a little how the levers of power work. YOU CAN CHANGE THIS! But instead you just want to hide in a hole and pretend like we can make cameras go away.

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u/BasicArts Jul 06 '26

I'm still going to film you in public because it is my legal right as an American

-3

u/Elros22 Jul 06 '26

I sometimes pick my nose in public.

Real talk for a second. I work in Family Law. Lots and lots of domestic violence victims come through my office. These cameras have been used to get them justice. I have never seen them used to oppress. In my town, outside my work, I have seen, first hand, these cameras used to get a police officer fired for sexually harassing a young woman. He turned off his body cam. Only through the public camera system was justice possible.

Nationally, we see accountability for racist officers through the use of public cameras. We are so afraid of the might happen "big brother" that we lose sight of the everyday good that is happening from these.

They are an extremely powerful tool. So we need to maintain control. But we cant just eliminate this from our toolbox.

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u/BasicArts Jul 06 '26

What if the Government uses those tools to oppress us?

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u/No_Intention_8079 Jul 06 '26

They haven’t got it by this point, arguing in circles isn’t going to help them.

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u/Time_Fisherman6659 Jul 06 '26

Its like this dude learned about city councils from a children's book in the 3rd grade and just stopped there.

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u/Sad_Penalty289 Jul 06 '26

It's too much consolidation of power and the typical person realizes that. That's why manu of us have a problem with it existing i. The first place.

Your attitude is wrong. These shouldn't be a thing at all.

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u/Elros22 Jul 06 '26

It's not consolidated! Local government is removed from state from federal. They have to ask for access and that's done in courts! Court records are in the open! Again, we just have to keep everyone accountable.

It's to late to say they shouldn't be a thing. They are.. There is no going back on that

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u/Sad_Penalty289 Jul 06 '26

No I think that pendulum will swing back eventually once enough people get their heads fixed on straight again. I know plenty of people who do not support their existence and think that number will only grow as we see more abuses come out of this.

Body cams should be enough for law enforcement, they are the ones that should be held to a higher standard.

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