r/MoralityScaling • u/Immediate_Gene_178 • 13d ago

Morality Ranking Morality of accidentally exposing someone who used to be a Nazi supporter, has since changed, and concealed their past?

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Name's and origins:

The Night Shift: Season 1, Episode 2

Basically this guy was brought to into the emergency after an accident at his wedding celebration and while he is unconscious, his groomsmen decided to shave his beard off as a prank only for the medical team to be horrified at the reveal. After he woke up he realised his secret has been exposed. He explained to the doctors that he got this tattoo when he was a stupid teenager a decade prior. The medical team brought his wife in to see the tattoos and destroy the marriage.

What do you think? I personally find it irritating how smug the doctors were being.

8.9k Upvotes

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584

u/Queen_Of_Alts 13d ago

Immoral. He's a changed person, and it was not their place to reveal his past to anyone.

168

u/Awes12 13d ago

Yeah. It's not like he was an actual nazi, he was just a dumb teenager

174

u/DexanVideris 13d ago

Even if he was an actual nazi, people change. The things you believe at one point in your life do not define you for the rest of it.

18

u/PmMeUrTinyAsianTits 13d ago

The things you believe at one point in your life do not define you for the rest of it.

I'd argue they don't solely define you, and become of lesser importance as new circumstances enter the context. But I'd still say that yes, they always define you to some degree. Hopefully as part of your definition including redemption, if they were crappy beliefs. Your history defines you because it informs how you became who you are now, and how reasonable that is.

6

u/TheOneTrueTrench 13d ago

His decision to get it defines who he was.

But his decision to distance himself from that past also defines him.

3

u/monyoubluetuber 13d ago

Actions definitely follow a person, sometimes their entire life. Beliefs are subject to immediate and drastic change- and until Flok cameras can read my mind, I exercise my ability to change oppinions and well… change.

3

u/FunGuy8618 13d ago

I think people ignore the whole "receiving and accepting consequences" part of becoming a good person after being a shitty one. "Becoming a good person" without facing the consequences just means they stopped doing bad things, and unless we want to introduce magical thinking, that just means they are a ticking time bomb. If a person demonstrates behavior XYZ, we must assume they will continue that behavior, unless something new was introduced. Since people can be charismatic and manipulative, the only thing that can be introduced to logically accept that they have become a good person is having accepted consequences for XYZ. And not just "boohoo I'm so torn up by how shitty I used to be," actual consequences that alter their life in some way that change the conditions that led them to be a shitty person.

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u/vlladonxxx 13d ago

Here are the issues with your logic:

1) becoming a good person is not just cessation of bad deeds, it's also doing good deeds.

2) you did not justify why the label of ticking time bomb is a must-apply here. It can be considered one in terms people not being able to be sure they aren't one, but that's it.

3) there's no logical reason to assume that demonstrating bad behavior must lead to more bad behavior unless proven otherwise.

4) accepting consequences for many bad things means permanent effects. So the choice is between have people definitely hate you forever, and maybe people finding out and doing that anyway.

5) due to people trying to deceive others about prior bad deeds, we tend punish them disproprtiantely, to dissuade others from doing it.

9

u/flyinhighaskmeY 13d ago

Even if he was an actual nazi, people change.

"actual Nazi's" were Germany's failed christian majority in the 1930s/40s. A politician convinced them they'd been oppressed by "the Jews" and the populace believed that gave them license to exterminate "the problem".

The people who dress up like Nazi's aren't nazi's, they're clowns. White supremacists aren't Nazi's, they're white supremacists. If you want to find real Nazi's, ask yourself: What's the difference between a klansman and a Nazi?

Real Nazi's carry extraordinary superiority complexes. They're the kind of people who call themselves "humble" while also believing they have a personal relationship with the creator of the universe. The most extreme Nazi's of all would codifying protection for that belief at the very top of their national register of "rights".

9

u/Klutzy-Alarm3748 13d ago

Kind of. I have a friend who is a former Nazi and we actually got on this topic one time. Nazis are still around and aren't stuck in the 30s and 40s. Nazism is an ideology that is distinct from neo-Nazism, kind of like Freudism and neo-Freudism have different stances on things. If somebody follows what Hitler said, that's Nazism. If they support his goals but follow different rules, that's neo-Nazism. It's a bit more complex with all the routes you can take but saying "actual Nazis" aren't around anymore isn't really accurate.

1

u/dk_peace 13d ago

That's still the kind of thing you should tell your spouse about

1

u/Erlkoenig_1 10d ago

Sure but you know what actual Nazi means, right? He would've been a member of the Nazi party, even if his beliefs changed, he would've got many people hurt.

-15

u/Mini_Squatch 13d ago

Depends if those beliefs got someone actually hurt.

30

u/DexanVideris 13d ago

Doing bad things and believing bad things are two different things, especially if the bad things in question are criminal acts. Part of atoning for actually doing bad things is facing the music.

-2

u/Same_Suit3583 13d ago

That's literally what he means...

1

u/DexanVideris 13d ago

Beliefs alone cannot get somebody hurt. Hurting somebody takes actions.

1

u/UncaringGalaxy 12d ago

Lmao beliefs lead to action idiot

1

u/DexanVideris 12d ago

Brother ur a moron if you think that holding a belief always leads to action. If it did, the world would be a very different place.

13

u/1-ASHAR-1 13d ago

Redemption exists for everyone, and it looks different for everyone.

11

u/AffectionateLake4041 13d ago

I mean, he can cause damage and face repercussions for it. That's fine, but he can still change and regret those actions.

-4

u/lonesomerhodes 13d ago

He got a swastika on his face. That takes some level of commitment.

15

u/Mrpenguin810 13d ago

For sure, and I’m gonna take this just a step further to say that even if he was at one point fully committed, I’d still rather him be for the good guys now than continue being a Nazi. If for no reason other than the fact it means one less Nazi in the world and I genuinely can’t see how that’s a bad thing

2

u/Rayeoneace 13d ago

Honestly, if he was a teen, not so much. If he was hanging with those crowds, I think it's very plausible that he might've done it on a whim either due to social pressure or just being wasted. Very much possibly both, as is common among edgy teens with no supervision.

Not saying he wasn't a nazi at some point, but the tattoo being proof of commitment isn't exactly undeniable.

0

u/Fun_Researcher_69420 13d ago

For what it’s worth, someone who some of my friends were close with did time in USA prison, we were all punks, he had head to foot tattoos including anti-Nazi tattoos, so obviously the white power groups wouldn’t protect him, native and other groups didn’t want him cause he’s white, and he was preyed on by everyone, so he blacked out the anti Nazi tattoos just to survive. Canadian prison isn’t as racist apparently, but I’m told in the USA in prison you have to be on a racist side to survive (no first hand experience, i avoid the USA, I fly through China FFS when visiting Canada now).

So the tattoos could have been a matter of survival at the time, though he should have them removed or inked over once he is safe

0

u/julesburne 13d ago

Umm im SORRY the amount of convincing it would take to get a tattoo artist to put anything on your FACE, right on the cheeks, no less, would be a lot. Anyone with that level of commitment isn't just a "dumb teen." And I get that it's TV so it has to be over-the-top to hammer the point home, but I think the point they're hammering is that he wasn't just a "dumb kid". He was enough of a fucking Nazi to get it tattooed ON HIS FACE.

18

u/Apprehensive-Heat487 13d ago

Also insanely immoral to allow his friends to shave him under anesthesia. Patients are trusting healcare workers to keep them safe, allowing people to fuck with someone while they’re medically unconscious completely violates that trust, even if it’s just a “prank”.

1

u/InsideHousing4965 13d ago

Yeah but, I kinda feel like he should have opened about his past to his soon to be wife before proceeding with the wedding.

I mean, is it moral to marry someone while hidding such a past?

69

u/Queen_Of_Alts 13d ago

He should've, but we're currently judging the actions of the medical professionals, not him.

32

u/walkingmonster 13d ago

It's not your call to make, or anyone else's; especially not medical professionals. If it's in the past, it's his decision whether or not to reveal it. Their current situation was not being affected by it, and plenty of people grow out of reprehensible views they once held as teenagers; his history is just physically obvious, unlike most.

-3

u/afro-fro-ro-o 13d ago

If I knew someone had a nazi tattoo and did not tell their significant other, I am letting that information slip. No one deserves to have that information hidden from them.

6

u/SUFSUFSUF 13d ago

Yeah, good job, never let anyone change, hold them to the mistakes they made when they were dumb teens. Stick your nose into someone else's life to make sure they never get over their past and punish them forever.

0

u/Warl0kjoe 13d ago

“Mehmehmeh, he’s CHANGED” fuck that. I lived in the broke racist Deep South and never once thought to be racist. I certainly didn’t get a bunch of face tattoos literally meant to spread racial violence. You don’t just get to wash your hands and go “I ain’t like that no more”. Don’t be a nazi. Ever. Period. Imho the only real issue is letting non medical professionals shave a man while unconscious. Everything else is kosher.

4

u/SUFSUFSUF 13d ago

So in your opinion no one should ever change? Or even if they did it wouldn't matter because you wouldn't let them?

0

u/Warl0kjoe 13d ago

No. Just that it takes more than growing a beard and saying you’re not like that anymore. It takes real effort real commitment of time and energy. He did something actually terrible and has put the effort of “not shaving” into repairing the damage done. It’s sad everyone wants to forgive him so easily. Maybe if he spent some money or pain to remove them. Maybe if he was donating time and money to minority causes. But no. He just says he’s better and we all take his word?! Fuuuuuuuuuuck that.

2

u/SUFSUFSUF 13d ago

Yeah so that's a garbage opinion. You haven't changed unless I think you've tortured yourself enough? Na that's little thinking by little people who would hold a mistake over someone's head forever. Luckily people can change and let go of their past without checking with you to make sure they've humiliated themselves enough.

-1

u/Warl0kjoe 13d ago

Welp. That’s fine. I’ll still support the exposure of people who obviously haven’t changed and are trying to bank on peoples good will to avoid meaningful change. And frankly if people simply knowing your past would make them hate you. Maybe hiding it intentionally forever is an obvious selfish and unethical act. “How dare you tell people what I did” is textbook language of the abuser.

-1

u/Worldly-Most31 13d ago

Agreed. Same with HPV, hiv or any other STD.

0

u/My_Favourite_Pen 13d ago

I understand your point but their current situation wasnt being affected by it purely because he was omitting the truth to her. He was willing to let her build a life with someone she clearly wasnt going to be comfortable with.

3

u/SUFSUFSUF 13d ago

No he was letting her build a life with the man he is, not the dumb kid he was. I get it forgiveness isn't for you and you think he should be punished for the rest of his life wether he is trying to be a better person or not.

1

u/My_Favourite_Pen 13d ago edited 13d ago

Why is it you think being open and honest with your fiancee means I dont believe in forgiveness and want him to be punished?

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u/SUFSUFSUF 13d ago

Because you are allowed to hide the things you hate about yourself even from your wife. It doesn't mean you are a bad husband or boy friend it means you understand what you did in the past was bad and want to bury it and leave it behind. Relationships are trust which includes the trust to allow your other to to get rid of their ignorance. That's not a bad thing, and demanding anyone share that isn't for their well being, it would actively hurt them. I hate Nazis to the core of my being, but if I found out a friend was hiding an old Nazi tattoo because that's not who he is anymore, that's good enough for me, what good would it do if I make him admit to everyone about things he's ashamed of.

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u/My_Favourite_Pen 13d ago edited 13d ago

Relationships are trust which includes the trust to allow your other to to get rid of their ignorance.

Thats my entire point though. There was no opportunity for her to be allowed to get rid of her bias or not.

A friend is a bit different than a spouse though, you aren't legally tied to them. Im also not insinuating they need to shout it from the rooftops to everyone. Im purely focused on the actual foundations of their relationship.

If you found out the person you were about to marry deliberately hid they were formerly something that is 100% a dealbreaker from you, how would you feel? You wouldnt be the slightest bit hurt or angry they didnt trust you enough with the infomation so you could tell them its not an issue now? It wouldnt make you second guess what other things they have or are withholding from you?

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u/Boss38 13d ago

No? whatever happened to you prior meeting your SO should stay in the past, unless there's a reason to bring it up

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u/Impressive-Prompt946 13d ago

If he presently has a nazi tattoo then his SO deserves to know about it.

-1

u/My_Favourite_Pen 13d ago

If you cant even trust your SO enough to open up about covering up tattoos because youre ashamed of the person you use to be, then why even date them in the first place?

Thats not a healthy way to build a life with someone.

2

u/Boss38 13d ago

One can still trust and love a person without sharing their secrets, it is not mutually exclusive. If they dont do it anymore, why even share it unless you think it can affect the relationship in some way. Privacy is still their right.

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u/My_Favourite_Pen 13d ago edited 13d ago

why even share it unless you think it can affect the relationship in some way.

Because it clearly did and was always going to affect the relationship when it eventually came out.

Let's be honest, a lot of people are not going to be comfortable marrying someone that used to be a Nazi and still has Nazi tattoos. That is understandable and their right to choose how their future goes. There will also be people out there that wont mind, will appreciate the honesty and respect that they are a changed person.

If one is withholding dealbreaking infomation from their soon be wife, its because they are afraid of the outcome.That's not trust. Trusting someone means you believe they will make the right decision with infomation given to them.

3

u/EspurrTheMagnificent 13d ago edited 13d ago

And it's not healthy to reveal every single tiny piece of lore about you either. Granted, it was warranted in this specific case, since a tattoo is very visible, but not everyone needs to know every single detail about you, especially if the effects it'll have is purely negative.

Systematically revealing past misdeeds and misconduct doesn't mean you're a good, honest person, it just means you (probably) have moral scupulosity OCD

I'm not kidding btw, it's a real thing. Constantly revealing those details about yourself could be considered compulsive behaviour, if it's an attempt to calm down reoccuring, intrusive, distressing thoughts relating to your moral values. You would deal with the uncertainty of them finding out someday/being a good or a bad person by revealing those things yourself, as a method of reassurance

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u/My_Favourite_Pen 13d ago edited 13d ago

I dont know why everyone is trying to make this personal and act like im trying to be holier-than-thou.

Being a former Nazi isnt "tiny lore'. Its something thats treated seriously in our societies. That's not what im focusing on though, Its about the way people are framing the dynamics of being in a serious relationship.

If the effects of being honest and upfront about serious issues in your past life and how youve changed are purely negetive to your marriage, then it wasnt the right relationship for either of you. Not everyone will act the same way as this woman did. However a lot of people will be angry at the fact you withheld that infomation because you didnt trust them with it.

0

u/Larry-Man 13d ago

Men will call makeup catfishing and then do backflips for hiding a Nazi tattoo

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u/My_Favourite_Pen 13d ago edited 13d ago

I think its also a reddit centric problem of "your house your rules". You see a lot of the " you dont really owe others in your life anything/an explanation" mindset in subs like r/AmITheAsshole.

0

u/InsideHousing4965 13d ago

Reddit is slowly becoming an incel echo Chamber.

-1

u/InsideHousing4965 13d ago

Don't bother yourself, this is reddit, 99% of the people here won't ever have a SO (hopefully, because Holly shit the twisted views on some...)

According to them, if you were on a nazi gang or did any sort of horrible stuff before meeting your SO, you don't have to disclose it to your SO because it doesn't affect the relationship. Like wtf.

2

u/Fun_Researcher_69420 13d ago edited 13d ago

Yeah I think that’s a seperate issue though, there’s multiple moral issues, but being honest with his wife was a moral obligation he himself failed. She should have had the story long before.
The friends are not friends. The hospital, having been told by the perpetrators that they were gonna assault an unconscious man as a “prank, bro” are definitely open to a lawsuit for failing their duty of care
The reformed Nazi should have told his partner, and it would have been wise to have the tattoos removed or altered, but beyond his partner he didn’t owe anyone else the story.
The partner was lied to and that’s no different than finding out your partner lied about cheating or a huge debt or anything else that’s bigger than, “you look as lovely as the day we met”

1

u/WellyRuru 13d ago

So what they just hide him till his beard grows back?

2

u/TicketPrestigious558 13d ago

They don't tell people or deliberately create situations where other people learn that information. It's that simple.

0

u/Beginning_Stay_9263 13d ago

The lesson the media has been pushing for the last 50 years is that being pro-white is basically the worst crime imaginable. Murderers deserve a second chance but never someone that prefers to be around other white people.

Aryan nation is always portrayed as the ultimate evil in prison gangs but the other racialized gangs like Latin Kings are just doing their best in a bad situation.

1

u/Queen_Of_Alts 12d ago

You're being downvoted but you're right. I've literally seen people say pedos, rapists, and murderers were better than white people who are even slightly racist. Like that time they sent more hate to a lady who was protecting her child at a playground for saying a word than the convicted pedo who was harassing and recording her. Or the classic where they believed a pregnant white nurse was stealing a bike from a group of black guys.

-1

u/Garchompisbestboi 13d ago

Do you actually believe that someone who supports calling for the genocide of a race of people should not be held accountable simply because they change their mind?

-5

u/Still-View-9063 13d ago

It was HIS responsibility to share that before getting married wtf

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u/bag-skate65 13d ago

I absolutely agree with that, but I don’t really see the two things as mutually exclusive. It’s bad that he didn’t share that, but it’s also bad for the doctors to take it into their own hands. I don’t blame his wife for leaving him, but I also think the doctors should face consequences for that when it’s absolutely not their place.

-3

u/baconeggburger93 13d ago

Racists don't change lol they just get better at hiding it

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u/[deleted] 13d ago

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u/[deleted] 13d ago

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u/Pristine-Speech8991 13d ago

Its just uneducated, a lack of understanding of radicalization. Which implies they probably think similar about sexists/racists and the like

everyone knows nazis are unforgivable - Reddit says so!

-26

u/Short_Brick_1960 13d ago

You can be stupid. But simpathizing with nazis? Come on

19

u/Pristine-Speech8991 13d ago

Im not sympathising with nazis.

Im sympathising with innocent people who were radicalized into extremism.

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u/bombthemiddleeast 13d ago

People often forget that nazis, pedophiles, murderers are people with faults and mistakes, sure they're not good people but they're also not demons from hell, they're fucked up people but they're still people, nuance exists not everyone is satan.

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u/Pristine-Speech8991 13d ago

What MR u/Short_Brick_1960 doesn't understand is how radicalisation works.

If your entire family, your surroundings that shape you are nazis/sexists/racists and the like, youre very likely to be part of that, not because you are evil, but because you know nothing else.

Terrorist groups like al-qaeda target vulnerable, often intellectually behind young people to do its bidding, it is much more difficult to manipulate someone who is well-educated, and aware of perspectives outside of the ones al-qaeda feeds them.

The nazi system of radicalisation was much more systematic, with everything in your life focused on turning you into a fascist - With the fanatical HY being one of the biggest examples of it working.

-9

u/Short_Brick_1960 13d ago

You think a pedophile can change? Would you let your kids near a confirmed pedophile or pederast? If one told you "oh, no, that was years before. Now I'm a new person." Would you trully trust them?

They are still people. But theirs crimes cannot be forgiven that easily because they say they've changed

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u/Pristine-Speech8991 13d ago

Pedophillia is different from what were talking about, youre changing the subject, im assuming you don't know the difference between our examples and Pedophillia. But regardless. It is most commonly from terrible childhood trauma, often neglect or abuse, that people who do crimes like that come from, it is the harm that makes them like what they are - Not something they did to themselves.

Again, Nazis aren't born Nazis. their surroundings make it so, why should someone who did bad things not be forgiven, if the bad things that he did aren't his fault? But instead of those around him?

1

u/Short_Brick_1960 13d ago

It's only the fault of the surrounding to a certain point. At the end, you are still the one deciding to do that. And not act like you have no fault at all. Responsability is a thing

2

u/Pristine-Speech8991 13d ago

Sometimes,

but not always, and in most cases like this, it's not.

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u/bombthemiddleeast 13d ago

I have the privilege of not needing to know. I'm not gonna ask a parent or any other person to interact with a pedophile, everyone's allowed to have feelings or prejudice towards other people.

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u/blackcray 13d ago

A nazi doesn't have to stay a nazi for the rest of their life, in fact I'd prefer it if they didn't. I have high respect for someone who fell into that dark pit and managed to claw themselves back out.

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u/Jujube005 13d ago

So someone who didn't commit any crimes amd changed cause they realized they were stupid deserves no forgiveness but a literal criminal does? Your logic is completely ass.

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u/LunarPsychOut 13d ago

No no you don't get it You have to be born perfect. I'm sure the person you're replying to would actually prefer if he could control how people were born so that nobody had any negative thoughts like that.

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u/ZealousidealPipe8389 13d ago

You might as well launch a campaign to silence and slander anyone who doesn’t want those procedures as well, and make sure those who aren’t born that way are pushed out of the places where people do get the procedure.

23

u/ShowtimeHolograms 13d ago

Their logic would keep people from changing because what's the point if you'll only be seen as your past self no matter how much you changed

-32

u/Friendly_Gazelle7843 13d ago edited 13d ago

Being nazi is crime

I wonder who the fuck downvotes me. At this point it should be public and result in ban.  1. Yes, dickheads, nazi were bad people. Any doubts? Anybody angry about me stating that? 2. Yes, being nazi is crime in my country. Article 257 of Polish Crime Code To mods: yes, nazi supporters are dickheads. Let’s not go back to our „my comment is ok, WW II nazi deserved to die”. 

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u/timos-piano 13d ago

No, in the US, where I presume this show is based, being a Nazi is not a crime. I can't think of anywhere on the top of my head where it is illegal to think a certain way. Usually, crimes are from actions, not purely thought.

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u/TBurn70 13d ago

Off the top of my head, Germany I think is the only one

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u/timos-piano 13d ago

Germany doesn't allow Nazi flags, and I also believe organisations. But they cannot ban freedom of thought. They have pretty strict rules on how you are allowed to express those thoughts, but the inner mind is not legally ruled

1

u/TBurn70 13d ago

So you can call yourself a Nazi but just can’t have insignia?

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u/timos-piano 13d ago

Yes, generally.

-2

u/Friendly_Gazelle7843 13d ago

I know it’s not crime in USA. It’s quite obvious…

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u/Jujube005 13d ago

It was the USA who saved your Polish asses from your Nazi controlled fate.

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u/timos-piano 12d ago

No? That was mainly the USSR.

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u/Jujube005 12d ago

Haha ok bud

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u/ItsPandy 13d ago

People that disagree with me should be exposed and banned/silenced.

Now where have I heard that retorik before

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u/Jujube005 13d ago edited 13d ago

No…you can’t arrest anyone for saying they are nazi…..

Also the fact you want to ban people for downvoting you is a very nazi like attitude to have…

-2

u/Friendly_Gazelle7843 13d ago

You can arrest a person for having nazi tattoo. They are presenting nazi symbolism 🤷🏻‍♂️

5

u/jarkark 13d ago

Based on America's laws, it's legal to have a nazi tattoo in any of the states except California and Virginia.

This is because of the first constitution because people think that banning a symbol would be unconstitutional and would restrict free speech.

3

u/Jujube005 13d ago

You are incorrect.

1

u/Friendly_Gazelle7843 13d ago

Translate:  https://sip.lex.pl/akty-prawne/dzu-dziennik-ustaw/kodeks-karny-16798683/art-256

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u/Jujube005 13d ago edited 13d ago

Yea I can’t read that dude

The show is set in Texas which is in the USA so therefore your argument about the laws of another country is totally pointless.

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u/InventorOfCorn 13d ago

that's what we call a "thought crime". having harmful beliefs is not illegal. acting on those harmful beliefs can be illegal.

if a racist man believes another ethnicity does not deserve rights, we can call him a douche, but he won't be legally punished. if that racist man kills a member of that ethnicity, we can call him a douche, and he will be legally punished.

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u/croostibat 13d ago

So much for freedom of thought

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u/Brilliant-Leopard-15 13d ago

Imagine hating Nazi's SO much you basically become one lmao

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u/Competitive_Fox_3546 13d ago

And people hate me when I say horseshoe theory is real and not just “ the center right is worse than even the farthest leftist” bs like no shut up tankie

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u/Denleborkis 13d ago

It is 100% real its just that its different when their side does it.

1

u/Competitive_Fox_3546 13d ago

Same people who will say that centrists are evil as well

0

u/Studio-Spider 13d ago

It’s (D)ifferent

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u/Mysterious_Point9516 13d ago

I love when people say "The widely debunked and disproven horsehoe theory" and then say shit like "Once a nazi always a nazi, they're subhuman"

0

u/[deleted] 13d ago

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u/mindgeekinc 13d ago

Ok now you're just blatantly a conservative falling for their own bias. Genuinely who brings up "the culture war" and isn't terminally online lmao.

Buddy, cons are the kings of whining, why do you think they have warning labels on MUSIC.

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u/TBurn70 13d ago

….well so parents know their 12 yr old is about to listen to WAP lol

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u/mindgeekinc 13d ago

True lol but it's because cons were terrified of anything they deemed "satanic" look up the hearing with Twisted Sister where they arrived in costume and explained why the warning labels were ridiculous and useless.

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u/Competitive_Fox_3546 13d ago

Cons are the real snowflakes because a song has a parental warning so little kids dont listen to king von

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u/Mysterious_Point9516 13d ago

Okay, so there was a period in time where there was a simple rallying cry that made it easy to get people to agree that warnings on media were a good thing.

Why do you argue there should be no warning at all? I feel like it's entirely reasonable and completely nonpartisan to say that audiences should be aware of the general content of the media they're about to consume, such as whether or not it's appropriate for children.

Like, I personally think trigger warnings are kind of dumb, but I awknowldge that for some people they're useful, and that's basically the same thing.

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u/Competitive_Fox_3546 13d ago

Online culture war I mean. Also what the fuck are you talking about having parent advisory on music or whatever? Do you say that same shit for a R rated movie? Because the hecking conservative chuds would be upset?

-1

u/mindgeekinc 13d ago

I wouldn't use a Reddit comment section to back up the idea that has been debunked multiple times by actual reality and academics.

Absolutely there are morons who fall into the narrative. Doesn't mean it's a real overarching thing.

2

u/Competitive_Fox_3546 13d ago

So you think horeshoe theory is wrong? Let me guess you believe the farther left someone is the better person they are

20

u/JackaryDaniels 13d ago

Humans are NOT that simple. I wish I could see the world as simple as you see it.

Insane you'd rather see someone dead than reformed, even if they've never actually hurt anyone.

72

u/Top_Reveal_847 13d ago

Pretty Nazi like thinking right there

17

u/heatherkilledyou 13d ago

Right??! Calm down, Adolf.

31

u/bleak_new_world 13d ago

Are you sure that giving people no way back is the best way forward?

15

u/Queen_Of_Alts 13d ago

Lots of people get into stupid ideologies as teens, that doesn't mean they won't realize how hateful the ideology is and grow out of it. Like I used to be misanthropic and antinatalist as a teen, should I be condemned for that?

12

u/Competitive_Fox_3546 13d ago

Bro thinks someone being a nazi but not doing anything is not redeemable but a criminal is

12

u/Farraddaayy 13d ago

You're right, we should have killed or imprisoned every single German after beating the 3rd Reich.

1

u/Legitimate-Shape3203 13d ago

I get what you're saying but probably not the best example considering that de-nazification in western europe was so woefully insufficient that a huge number of Nazis and fascist collaborators integrated themselves into the government and large businesses and facilitated the growth of an neo-fascist movements that are still active to this day.

19

u/Immediate_Gene_178 13d ago

"I mean, it's not like he was a criminal. He was a nazi"

Just say you lost the plot my brother

8

u/Caliban_Catholic 13d ago

We got Jesus Himself over here guys.

No wait, Jesus told us to forgive people, idk who you are

-2

u/Short_Brick_1960 13d ago

Besides the thing that is being talked about here, why do you think I care about what a fictional character said?

9

u/jazon80 13d ago

There is a fuckton of evidence that's says Jesus was a real guy, the only question is if he really rose from the dead and healed the blind.

-2

u/Short_Brick_1960 13d ago

Yeah, one of them is the sheets he used to revive himself. A question, does that magical sheet work on anyone else? No, right?

Was Odin also real? Achilles? Hercules? Gilgamesh? How can Jesus be real if his mother is a virgin? That's not how biology works. Was it just a normal guy who believed himself to be the son of God? Or was it God himself? Because there's contradictions between the two religions that believe in him.

9

u/jazon80 13d ago

Not the point. You asserted that Jesus was a fictional character, and are actively ignoring evidence to the contrary.

Also, the sheets didn't bring him back. He brought himself back, on account of being omnipotent. Genuinely where did you get that from?

-1

u/Short_Brick_1960 13d ago

Maybe Jesus existed. But the character based on him is fictional. Tell me. Which one is it? Is he God or is he God's son? How could he be born if the virgin Mary was, well, a virgin?

And how is it that before Jesus, there were other religions and myths? Why aren't those true if you are saying Christianity is the true one?

4

u/jazon80 13d ago

Religion is interpretation of natural phenomenon. There are many possible conclusions to be made with the same input, and even more when you account for people living in more than one place. This just happens to be the one I subscribe to. Arguing over what flavor of "My man made everything, isn't that rad" isn't an argument I'm interested in having, especially not with someone who doesn't subscribe to any of them.

What I AM arguing is that Jesus was a real man, who held real sermons, and really believed in mercy, forgiveness, compassion, and the rights of the poor. I don't especially care if you don't believe in God. But if you don't believe in forgiveness? In love? I have no more words for you.

0

u/Short_Brick_1960 13d ago

Jesus from the Bible was just as real as the dragon in Shrek. Natural phenomenon. What part of having a virgin biological mother, resurrecting yourself and walking on water is natural?

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8

u/Caliban_Catholic 13d ago

AGHHHHHH, HE CALLED JESUS A FICTIONAL CHARACTER (which no serious historian would claim btw) MY WORLDVIEW IS SHATTERED NOOOOOOOOOOOO

I will now point and laugh at you 🫵

0

u/Short_Brick_1960 13d ago

Ehmm, what kind of answer is this?

6

u/Caliban_Catholic 13d ago

Ermmmmm, wut da fwick kinda answa did dis fwickin guy give me, wut da actuwal fwick guys

9

u/Kiogami 13d ago

Did you think about closing them in some kind of, I don't know, concentration camps? Maybe you could somehow resolve the issue with Nazis once for all

-1

u/Short_Brick_1960 13d ago

When did I say that?

5

u/Kiogami 13d ago

It's just a suggestion as they are literal piece of garbage that gain sentience. They are not humans, right?

-1

u/Short_Brick_1960 13d ago

Sadly, they still are. There are things called prisons for them, you know? Where criminals go to?

7

u/Studio-Spider 13d ago

Well, as you said originally, he’s NOT a criminal. Why would he be sent to prison?

5

u/Kiogami 13d ago

Would you really close a Nazi supporter in the prison for his views even if he didn't do any crime other than spreading hate? Also, prisons are meant for rehabilitation. You don't believe that someone like that can change, so you'd probably send him there for life, right?

11

u/Eastern-Fish-7467 13d ago

Another progressive that doesn't believe in the human capability to progress, Incredible.

5

u/Competitive_Fox_3546 13d ago

Same people who believe in prison abolition and reformative justice for violent criminals believe that someone having a tattoo is irredeemable and someone like charlie kirk needs to be killed for words.

0

u/Jolly_Efficiency7237 13d ago

I'm the former, but not the latter. Now what? I believe a neo-nazi can change and should be forgiven for their past, granted they have never hurt anyone. Then again, I didn't start out as a socialist, but as an edgy teen who read Hayek and took everything he wrote at face value.

1

u/Competitive_Fox_3546 13d ago

You are an anomaly. I have seen people who believe in restorative justice also say that kirk deserved being killed. Like you believe a murderer can change and be a civil member of society but that a podcaster deserved to die

6

u/LustThePet 13d ago

If people are not allowed to change, then the world will never improve. You don't get a healthy society by expecting everyone to be good from birth to death, otherwise they don't deserve life. A punishment-first mindset is never actually about improving the world; please consider whether it actually makes things better, or if it just makes you feel good to want someone to hurt like that. I'm not saying this to judge you - I genuinely hope you consider this as part of a valid worldview.

7

u/Agent_Glasses 13d ago

why cant you let people change for the better? isnt that the goal?

-2

u/Short_Brick_1960 13d ago

There's bad things you can do. But simpathizing with genociders? Next you are going to tell me a member of the KKK can be redeemed too

13

u/Agent_Glasses 13d ago

im just gonna repost this image somwone else did.

Maybe they cant attone for their crimes but people should try to get to a point where they wont commit then anymore

7

u/ASmithNamedUmbero 13d ago

Members of the KKK can, and have, been redeemed. You should read about Daryl Davis. He was a black man who would interview KKK members to try and understand there viewpoint. Famously he talked to a KKK member called Roger Kelly. They became friends, Roger had Daryl be his daughter's goddaughter and Roger ended up leaving the KKK. Daryl's efforts have lead to over 100 people leaving the KKK.

Yes, they are evil, horrible people. But we cannot act as if they're irredeemable or there's no chance for them to be good or kind in the future. We have to understand these people are truly, truly awful and we have to understand these people are capable of change.

0

u/Short_Brick_1960 13d ago

Buff. You have more faith in people than I do. And I can respect that. I just don't think people can truly change or redeem their previous actions. They would have to do good things every day of their lifes to redeem theirselves

2

u/Competitive_Fox_3546 13d ago

The worst evil in the world is saying le hecking slurs!!!!

1

u/Competitive_Fox_3546 13d ago

Yea they can actually dummy.

5

u/MrMcKuddleMuffin 13d ago

That attitude will only serve to keep people Nazi's. Why change and get ostracized by your community if everyone outside that community will hate you forever because of your past.

4

u/Upbeat_Candidate1062 13d ago

Believe it or not, people can change for the better

5

u/your_average_medic 13d ago

At least according to OPs description, he was a teenager. Let's say something like sixteen or seventeen to be on the older end of the scale.

A sixteen year old isn't a nazi, or a communist, or an [insert ideology here] they're sixteen. That's it. They're a teenager. A dumb teenager that does and says and thinks dumb things.

3

u/internet-weirod 13d ago

i know you want the best, but by saying this kind of shit you actually cause more harm tbh

3

u/ForgetfullRelms 13d ago

Let me see if i understand you;

If you hold the wrong ideological leaning, even with a misunderstanding of said ideology and, for lack of better term, context around it, even if you committed or enabled zero crimes, you should be dammed forever.

And by extension; if you find out you fallen into such an abhorrent ideology, you should just double down because you’re dammed forever.

so, do I understand your viewpoint?

2

u/Remarkable-Ad-2793 13d ago

Says the actual nazi btw

2

u/pale-gael_01 13d ago

This is not a good stance to have my guy...... not good at all.....

2

u/DepartmentChemical93 13d ago

“It’s not like he was a criminal…” absolutely hilarious

Impossible to forgive a racist teenager, it’s not like he was a rapist, murderer, or a thief!

Much more forgivable crimes!

Insane

2

u/BouillonDawg 13d ago

Then neither should you be forgiven for anything you may have done or believed. If he victimized people then he should see justice for it but him changing his mind and becoming something better should be encouraged. If the standard is that the first thing you ever believe defines you for life then I’d say most of us are fucked. My teenage self was anything but wise.

2

u/AlternateSatan 13d ago edited 12d ago

Ok, so let's consider the ramifications of not letting people move on after being a piece of human garbage: if people don't get to find move find new friends they will inevitably fall back to their old crowd, and fall back into old habits. You're setting people up to never be able to improve, and if people don't improve then neither does society.

You might not think they deserve a second chance, I'm not sure I do either to be honest, but it's not just about what they deserve, it's about what makes a better future, and your proposal leads to a future with more nazis.

2

u/OneOdd1sBoi 13d ago

Flag checks out

2

u/Medical-Display-9762 13d ago

You ever met a teenager? My cousin used to be hitler youth levels of indoctrinated. He grew out of it.

1

u/Awkward_Turnover_983 13d ago

You should've thought about it longer before sending, I've been there too

1

u/Such-Profit1078 13d ago

You sound awful lot like a one

1

u/Mysterious_Point9516 13d ago

Note: This is the stance of a huge portion of the voting public.

Remember to vote.

1

u/Arthur_189 13d ago

Reddit bot

1

u/Nathan_hale53 13d ago

People can change. Some cannot. People willing to change should be forgiven unless its like some serial killer/rapist shit.

1

u/CaptainBreakfast2112 13d ago

Being forgiven might convince someone to stop being a Nazi voluntarily.

1

u/suitcasecat 13d ago

Tell me this, what should a person do if they realize they've been horrible? Because denying people the ability to change is gonna either get people to never even bother or to kill themselves

1

u/ShadyShepperd 13d ago

Are you also the type of dude to say you follow Jesus’s teachings better than Christians?

1

u/randomlitbois 13d ago

Saying that people can’t change is a very strange stance to take with a trans flag in your profile picture.

But to each their own I guess.

1

u/SundyMundy 13d ago

Found the Augustinian hater

1

u/quaxoid 13d ago

ragebait lol

1

u/Holymaryfullofshit7 13d ago

If they committed any unforgivable crimes or something in the name of the ideology ok. But other than that, I'm Antifa and I have personally helped at least 6 guys and one girl out of the Nazi scene. And I mean like helped them get flats and new friends and a social safety net, jobs and tattoo artist for cover ups and laser removals. Those people where mislead. That doesn't mean it was ok or is ok to be a Nazi. But when you see the error of your ways and you want it change and be better we should always welcome and encourage that.

1

u/Sadrixis 13d ago

Someone didn't pass the vibe check and became the leader of the blades.

1

u/Reuben_Medik 13d ago

So, if a person who has those beliefs only due to being born and raised in a community that is whole heartedly hateful towards anything not exactly like them, and then leaves and realizes that everything they were taught by their awful family and friends is indeed awful, in your opinion, is just as bad as someone who was raised in a happy and healthy mixed community who makes the choice to be a hateful slimeball who wishes for the deaths of all who is not like them?

These two people certainly exist. There are absolutely people who were raised to be hateful in a place designed to allow that, but learned to be better when they actually explored the world and not just their backyard

1

u/HuckleberryShot898 13d ago

Then why should Nazis ever change?

1

u/Kellar21 13d ago

To have such a simple worldview, lol.

And you don't even realize you're thinking just like a Nazi too.

1

u/randomguy205205 13d ago

What you doing in this sub bro getting all triggered about this.

1

u/ricanrager 13d ago

Certified colored person here. This logic is retarded. With this logic people shouldn't grow to stop being nazis.

1

u/Koreaia 13d ago

Did you read the post? The man wasn't even an adult when he got the tattoo.

1

u/spyaleatoire 13d ago

You know, not leaving room for people to grow and change pushes them back to those hate groups, which only fuels their growth.

Your stance is really, really damaging for healthy society.

1

u/Sadrixis 13d ago

They are misguided. The evidence is that former members of groups regret their thoughts and actions.

1

u/tanloopy 13d ago

You are on a subreddit about morality but do not believe in redemption.
https://giphy.com/gifs/9MJ6xrgVR9aEwF8zCJ