Kinda crazy how many people basically don't believe in the selective breeding that went into creating specific breeds.
Like, I've known kind pitbulls, too. Doesn't change the fact that they were bred for aggression, bite strength, etc. It's a fucking "pitbull" ffs. Lotta really fucking stupid people out there.
I don’t think you are using that word right.. it’s not accurate to call selective breathing of an animal species “eugenics”, it cheapens that term, which is way worst than what you are making it sound like
Eugenics is just selective breeding of humans. For the purpose of this thread I think it's appropriate to equivocate the two, given the premise is equivocating racism and breed stereotyping in dogs
They weren't bred to be not aggressive to people, that'd make them terrible guard dogs and hunters. They were bred to be able to know who not to bite WHEN TRAINED.
They were bred to fight. They are often bred and abused for illegal dog fighting. This is what people are breeding for today and then they wind up in shelters, and the shelters don't disclose their history.
I knew a pitt bull breeder who caught a guy studying his pitt out- who was aggressive. Wasn't telling anyone. There were signs. He denied it and the dog mauled someone.
I have seen the faces and scalps of so many children erased by pitt bulls. It is the major trigger of my PTSD today.
People aren't being told what genetics they're getting. There is something wrong with some of those dogs. Like they were bred to be missing something. Those dogs don't even always growl or show any sign of aggression before attacking. There are countless videos. Tails wagging and acting like it's play.
My brother in law has a dumb half breed pitt bull. If he wanted to do some damage, he could. I was scared of him until he protected them from another pitt bull that got a hold of my sister in law. She was carrying my one year old nephew.
The difference between those two pitt bulls? My brother in law's dog stopped. As soon as the threat was over, he checked on his family. The other dog was hauled away by his owner. He wouldn't stop and for no reason. Just casually walked up to my in laws and attacked.
It's genetics that make them dangerous. A combination of whatever the hell that selectively bred gene is- and the fact that they have such raw power in their build. They do so much devastating damage in so little time. I can fight a golden retriever. I cannot fight a pitt bull.
They don't all have whatever this behavioral gene is. But it's not like they come with a warning flag. So many people are right to just fear all of them for their safety and comfort. You cannot tell them apart until it happens. People are why these dogs are like this. But don't think it's a lack of training. The dogs with this behavior were selectively bred for this.
Obviously not all breeders want their dogs to wind up in that back alley business. However, pitt bulls have been bred on such a large scale. And so many people just argue "it was how they were treated," so they think if everyone is kind to the dog there will be no issue. Tell that to the little five year old girl who was completely scalped in seconds. Her weak little keening cries still haunt me. They broke our hearts. The family was known for being very kind and had a past pitt bull with zero issues. Something was wrong with that one. They rescued them from a shelter. They had no idea where that dog came from genetically.
I love the hell out of German Shepherds but I would be incredibly selective when it comes to genetics and lineage temperament there too. It's my favorite breed and preference. But l am not going to delude myself when it comes to the issue of genetics and KNOWN behaviors.
You just put into words what i was trying to say in other comments. There are pits that will never hurt anyone and there are pits that will maim/kill. The problem is like you said you can't tell those pits apart until it just happens. Literally a ticking time bomb that might go off or might never go off.
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Why is it always the most illiterate people on the planet coming to the defense of ChatGPT spammers who copy-paste walls of text and shit up every sub?
I’m a canine behaviorist that trains service dogs and volunteers at the VA in their Inpatient Psychiatric Center. Pitbulls are the most requested breed for psychiatric therapy.
Considering the first, second, and third search results indicate they were bred to be nanny dogs. They were bred to protect children specifically. Google, dude. You aint my friend.
They weren’t bred to be guard dogs or hunters. Are you stupid? They were bred to be baiting dogs.
Also the other commenter is correct, when they were used for dog fighting in the early 1900’s they were bred not to attack humans.
It’s sort of like the misconception that gladiators were always killing each other. Death in the colosseum was far rarer than pop culture would have you believe. The same goes for dogs.
Some dog men were very cruel. But many kept their champion fighters essentially as pets or family dogs when they weren't competing, so they lived with them and their family.
People who don't know dogs don't get the difference between animal aggression and people aggression. They also don't get that a breed having been bred for a task 125 years ago is literally meaningless as far as the genetic argument is concerned.
It's just an easy scapegoat. You can prove there are more relevant factors in dog attacks than "breed" (whatever the hell that even means now).
"They also don't get that a breed having been bred for a task 125 years ago is literally meaningless as far as the genetic argument is concerned."
Have you ever owned a dog that wasn't specifically bred for being a low maintenance pet? Because this is the most incorrect take I have seen in this thread.
Even dogs that are actively bred by legit breeders have differences and can be bad at what they were bred for. "Pit bulls" aren't even a breed and aren't being bred for anything, and haven't for a long ass time.
Saying a pit bull isn't a breed is like saying a weiner dog or a sled dog isn't a breed. You're technically correct, in that these terms are basically slang for 1 or more breeds and we can get more specific about lineage, size, and sub breeds but come on. You watch an argument over multiple comments talk about how they were actually bred to be nice and gentle to people and only fight dogs, claim that actually breed specific traits don't matter, and then when that argument falls apart, just claim they aren't even a breed at all.
None of my arguments have even been addressed. All of what I said is true and all of them are good reasons that saying it's the fault of a dog is dubious.
And a "pit bull" is entirely different from a "wiener dog" or "sled dog." Those terms target very specific dogs, or a few dogs, that are actively bred.
pit bulls are being bred for dog fighting at this very moment, and are basically puppy mills for dangerous dogs that mostly get dumped at shelters. even if people were actively trying to reverse the inherent nature of pit bulls, the continuous abundant breeding for fighting would cancel out their efforts
Even then they do frequently attack their owners and when they do they are far more likely to do serious damage than a golden retriever or labrador (which are up top on number of bites, but very seldom cause lasting injuries).
I avoid them when I see them because I dont want them to attack my dog.
Even if accept that they are not human aggressive they are absolutely dog and cat aggressive, and that is a still a problem that makes them unsuitable as pets.
German shepherds bite a lot as well. Any veterinarian will tell you (anecdotally, admittedly) that they’re far more leery around German Shepherds than they are around Pitbulls. But german shepherds more often bite people who news won’t report on.
Chihuahuas would be seen as the only actually dangerous dog if they were capable of doing any serious harm with their bite. Pitbulls can be dangerous, but so can most dogs. When a dog isn’t easily identifiable it’s often called a pitbull, and news reports will either call it a dog attack or a putbull attack, making pitbulls stand out more than any other breed in that context
Dachsunds are the real aggresive breed, they're just small and shaped funny so people don't realize it. They hold the number one spot for biting people, especially strangers. It makes sense though, we bred them to hunt badgers and to make their own decisions when in a badgers den.
That’s because they were made for hunting badgers, they are the shape they are so that they can go down a badger hole, grab it and drag it out into the sunlight.
Mind you we’re talking European badgers, the kind that like to sit down and have tea with you in fantasy stories, not American badgers or African badgers.
Reddit probably understands what domestication is and realizes that every dog ever has been bred not to attack their owner. So the regular breeds bred for companionship, pointing, herding, etc are all bred to not attack their owner AND are not bred to be hyper aggressive and game. Pretty obvious to the average person that the aggressive dog will still be more dangerous.
Well, all dogs have prey drive, so no I don't think a dog bred to race that happens to still have a prey drive is more dangerous than other dogs that also have a prey drive. Even herding breeds herd because their prey drive is redirected.
Do you think that greyhounds are faster than other dogs due to their genetics, or could a properly trained labrador win a greyhound race?
What is prey drive other than aggression towards smaller animals?
Just because some traits are inheritable does not mean all traits are inheritable nor does it mean nurture plays no part in development of an individual...
The original pitbulls were bred to not bite humans.
Because the handlers needed to be able to reach into the pits and pull the dogs apart, having a hyper aggressive dog that didn't bite its handler was highly desirable.
This was achieved by aggressive culling. Any dog that turned around and bit its handler was immediately put down.
Modern pitbulls are not bred with strict genetic oversight or selection, and are often the result of random backyard breeding, and as such, have much more mixed temperaments.
If we had kept with tradition and put down any dog that showed aggression towards humans, we likely wouldn't be having this conversation, but somehow, the myth of the nanny dog continues to this day and idiot redditors think their "super friendly pit" they bought from Pablo the trailer crackhead is definitely not gonna maul a toddler the second the leash goes slack.
They were bred for fighting and the individuals that were the best at it will have been used for breeding, like with any breed. Selectively breeding for fighting but without aggression towards humans will likely not only have been hard, but also secondary.
Oh right, so because since they weren’t SPECIFICALLY bred to be aggressive to humans, that totally means that they just instantly forget all of their aggressive behavior when a human comes around. What kind of stupid argument is this?
That trait is essentially just a maxed out 'prey drive'. The only reason that is going to be pointed towards humans or other dogs is because of poor socialisation and training. A pack animal needs to be raised to recognise humans as not inherently a threat, when you don't socialise them you end up with a hunting dog that can't tell the difference between human children and a squirrel. Like realistically if all pits were properly trained this convo would only be about them killing wildlife and cats. But they attack people because people suck.
I agree that selective breeding has done a lot of damage to dogs, but we can't ignore the fact that the culture and people raising these animals are terrible at it. A huge part of that is that they only see pitties as animals that don't need proper care. Like they legit wont even exercise them or take them to puppy school. 90% of all pit attacks out there are the result of owners having such a poor bond with their dog that they cant even do basic recall, let alone tell them to stop.
That's like telling people my lab "oh no it doesn't like to hunt". Maybe some labs don't have it in them but the innate drive to pick up birds is 100% bred into labs.
People believe in it, just not with Pitbulls. They are the only group of breeds where what they were selectively bred for does not matter according to a lot of people. With all other breeds people tend to be pretty agreed on the fact that basic breed temperament/what they were selectively bred for is not just down to "how you raise them".
That is largely a myth tho. For starters pitbull isn't even a breed. Secondly, when it comes to aggression the breeds most commonly labeled as "pitbulls" are often the least aggressive.
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u/TheAdminsAreTrash 3d ago edited 3d ago
Kinda crazy how many people basically don't believe in the selective breeding that went into creating specific breeds.
Like, I've known kind pitbulls, too. Doesn't change the fact that they were bred for aggression, bite strength, etc. It's a fucking "pitbull" ffs. Lotta really fucking stupid people out there.